Catholic Outlook

[sonia-marmeladova]

will anyone give a clear answer as to what Ephesians means when it talks about wives submitting or

[catholicoutlook]

I’m going to say something radical, and I’m not even a Rad Trad.  Ephesians means exactly what is says. 

Philippians  2:5-11 is something I have meditated on often:  

"In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus:

6 Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage; 7 rather, he made himself nothing by taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. 8 And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to death— even death on a cross!

9 Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name, 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."

It is so confusing sometimes.  Jesus is God!  What does it mean that He "did not count  equality with God a thing to be grasped," and what does that mean for  me?  I think that understanding this passage may be the key to  understanding the divisions in unity between men and women, between  classes, nations, creeds, and abilities.  What did God intend "in the beginning,"  before the Fall?

The Trinity is our model of many things. Family life is a reflection of it.  Father, Son  and Holy Spirit.   Lover, beloved, and the love that unites them.   Father, mother, child.  Christ, the Church, the New Testament.  God, us,  the wedding feast in Heaven.   (The entire history of human salvation  is a wedding/marriage metaphor.)  If equality with God is not a thing  that Jesus grasped, when He IS God, then what does that mean for the rest of the analogies/relationships?

My husband and I were joking recently with our toddler.  I forgot how it started, but my toddler wanted something that I thought would be fine to give her, but before I could say anything my husband said no.  In an aside to him I told him that I thought it would be ok to give it to her.  He said something along the lines of, “you’re smarter and usually right.”  I responded that the smartest thing I could do would be to back him up, because being correct in this small situation was nothing compared to the damage I could do to our unity by sending a conflicting message to our toddler.  Because the matter was small and I did not see a harm, I submitted to my husband.  Sometimes he does the same to me, but there’s something uniquely feminine when I submit to my husband’s judgement. 

I don’t know if I made things clearer or messier with this post.  I think rather than a rule set in stone, that passage in Ephesians is more of a mystery to meditate on, like a decade of the rosary. 

[securus-judicat-orbis-terrarum]

[apenitentialprayer]

A question I’m having some difficulty with; If it is better to exist, even in Hell, than to not exist, why would it be better for Judas if he had never been born (Matthew 26:24, Mark 14:21)?

[catholicoutlook]

I’m confused why you say that non-existence is better than existence in Hell. 

I think our lives are valuable in that while living we have a chance of experiencing the greatness of the beatific vision.  Given this it is better to exist, even with a large chance of going to Hell, than to not exist.  The heights of the beatific vision is just that many orders of magnitude greater than the lows of Hell.  But actually being in Hell is worse than non-existence. 

Jesus is only able to say what He does about Judas because at this point, for whatever reason, Jesus is aware of the certainty of Judas’ damnation. 

[christ-our-glory]

[spiritualdirections]

Interpretive Charity and the two paradigms of the pandemic

In the Gospel today, the woman at the well and Jesus begin by talking past each other. The woman thinks Jesus is interested in water, or perhaps she thinks he’s interested in being her next husband. Jesus is interested in her conversion. She doesn’t get what he’s saying, at all. She lacks the imagination to consider this conversation the way that Jesus does.

A lot of us are talking past each other: At MIT this week, the administration managed a giant operation to shut down the university within a few days. Every so often, there would be a conference call where exhausted members of the administration would explain what they were doing and why, receive feedback in the form of “have you thought of this?”, and then give an answer (which, as often as not, would be changed within a few hours). Their work and efforts were really quite intelligent, and earned praise from MIT’s president. Also at MIT this week, students protested the various decisions of the Institute, often in vulgar language, which really hurt the feelings of the men and women who were working long hours to evacuate (sorry, “de-densify”) the campus. But, of course, the decisions of the Institute hurt many students in obviously real ways. Both sides had a point, and yet neither was really able to get inside the mind of the other and interpret the other’s actions charitably.

A poll just came out which shows that Republicans and Democrats view the facts and dangers of the pandemic in extremely different ways. There’s a popular saying, that you’re entitled to your opinions, but not to your own facts. But, the fact/opinion dichotomy is not sustainable, as anyone who ever studied the great MIT philosopher Thomas Kuhn’s work on scientific revolutions knows. 

What we seem to have here are (at least) two different paradigms for looking at the pandemic: 

One paradigm, expressed really effectively in this article, is that the pandemic is really big, really scary, and that the more governments act in a dictatorial fashion, the better we’ll all be. 

The other paradigm is that over 80% of those who catch the virus get the sniffles and can be treated with DayQuil, that of those with the virus in South Korea (where they have the best testing and thus best data)  only .06% die from this, and that it’s harder to catch than the average flu because you can’t infect anyone else unless you’re coughing and sneezing. People under 50 have little to worry about unless they have a preexisting respiratory, heart, or immune condition, and young people under 20 don’t have anything to worry about at all. 

I’ll call those who subscribe to the first paradigm Team Pandemic (slogan: “Act now to avert the catastrophe!”), the second group I’ll call Team Don’t Panic (slogan: “You can’t spell ‘pandemic’ without ‘panic’!”).

Keep reading

[sonia-marmeladova]

you people need to know that “i went to catholic school/I’m a cradle catholic/I was raised Catholic so I know what I’m talking about” says nothing about how much of Catholicism you understand or know. in fact it implies you know laughably little

[apenitentialprayer]

Gonna be honest, kinda torn here. Because on one hand, I am a cradle Catholic who was basically a Pelagian (“What’s grace, and why is it necessary when we can just be good people?”) even a couple years after my Confirmation. I work for a man whose father goes to church every Sunday, but balked at the idea that Mary continued to be a virgin after Jesus’s birth. I worked with an ex-Catholic atheist who could not comprehend that I could both believe in God and accept the possibility of alien life or the existence of dinosaurs millions of years before human beings roamed the planet. All of this is cringe-worthy for a lot of people who have taken the time to really learn about the faith they profess. One the other hand, I think that minimizing the lived experiences of Catholics is also dangerous. I think part of the issue is that we talk about ‘Catholicism’ like it’s just the theologies and traditions acceptable to the Church hierarchy, but ‘Catholicism’ can also be broadened definitionally to include all the traditions and practices that have developed in the cultural aspects of the faith - and those who argue that Catholicism is just a religion and not a culture have a seriously malformed view of what Catholicism is. It’s... messy. Vague. Unclear. Contradictory. And it’s easier to ignore all the unpalatable stuff as something that can be dispensed with as ‘cultural baggage’ -because that’s what it is, cultural baggage-, but I’m not sure if that’s really a good way to go with this. At the end of the day, these cultural aspects are a gauge to the health of the Body at large. Sure, the Church may not officially promote purity culture, but if the people at large think that sex is something shameful, is it really acceptable to say that “Catholics don’t have a problem with sex”? When the “I went to Catholic school/I was raised Catholic” crowd say things we know are objectively wrong (ex. “I am an Evangelical now, because that Satanic pseudo-church worships Mary as a goddess!”), I think we can safely debunk and declare their opinions to be of little value. But I think that we should still be looking at their perspectives, because that gives us a window into what Catholicism is like on the ground-level  (which is in many ways the most important level) and thus actually tells us what we need to work on as a community. If that makes sense?

[catholicoutlook]

I think there’s a difference between “No True Scotsman” Catholicism and saying that Catholicism has a lot that is codified, and if someone is trying to say Catholicism teaches something that goes against the code, they are not speaking Church teaching. 

I think that a large number of Catholics don't really approach Catholicism with a spirit of humility and don't even try to pretend that they believe the basic tenets of the Catholic Faith.  That doesn’t make them not Catholic.  To be Catholic, you just have to be baptized Catholic and say you’re Catholic when asked. These people are still genuine Catholics even if they are misinformed or disagree with dogma.  We can’t just kick them out of the Church for their disagreement, nothing can sever them from the grace of baptism. 

Moreover, we need to pay attention to their failure of comprehension, because it’s really our failure.  We’re looking at a time capsule.  What seeds are we sowing now with our youth and children that will grow into the misinformation we see today?  Where was the focus placed in their education?  What doubts proved the most seductive?

Side note - many trad Catholics would be comfortable saying that only about 10% of Catholics try to live up to their Catholic Faith.  What's really funny is how many think they're in the 10%.

[mybeautifulchristianjourney]

[yidquotes]

Imagine a pious Jew who never deviates from halakhic observance, and prays with all of his or her heart each day. At some points in the life of this pious Jew, God’s existence and providence are as clear to them as the light of day. But there are other periods. Darker periods. In those moments, the pious Jew worries about God’s distance. He or she suffers from doubt, but never stops yearning, observing, and praying with a contrite heart. One day, this Jew opens up to God and, echoing Moses (Exodus 33:18) says, ”Father in Heaven, please save me from these doubts. I love you so much, but belief in a Hidden God is often hard to maintain. Show me, please, your Glory”

At no point in this story would it be appropriate to say that this Jew had lost his or her faith. At no point do they disbelieve, even though there are times when their confidence in God’s existence may dip lower than fully fledged belief. At every point in the story, they want God to exist; they think that this is the sort of thing a person should want, and, at every point in the story, God’s existence is a plausible possibility to them. This person can be considered to have faith, even on the days where fully-fledged belief is missing.

Dr. Rabbi Samuel Lebens

[dawning-rose-1]

“When people have told me that because I am a Catholic, I cannot be an artist, I have had to reply, ruefully, that because I am Catholic, I cannot afford to be less than an artist.”

— Flannery O’Connor

[ivan-fyodorovich-deactivated202]

researching for my paper I found a couple Catholic philosophers that sounded interesting to me.  Today in discussing my paper my professor informed me that they were severely censured by the church, a few got excommunicated, so…

that’s not surprising

at all

[psyonic-cobra]

The real question is did they STAY excommunicated. Cause that tended to change depending on the Pope.

[ivan-fyodorovich-deactivated202]

so if a Catholic dies excommunicated do they go to hell and then if the church changes its mind they get to leave hell?

[catholicoutlook]

Excommunication is a medicinal penalty the Church uses to indicate that a person is teaching something contrary to Church teaching.  As punishment, the person is no longer permitted to participate in the sacramental life of the Church.  Excommunicates are still obligated to attend Mass, and the goal is for the person to align their teachings with prior Catholic doctrine and for the censure to be lifted.  

Either that or they punched a member of the clergy.  In which case the goal is still re-integration into the life of the Church, but it’s usually not an academic dispute. 

If a Catholic dies excommunicated, we don’t know where they end up.  It’s certainly not considered the easy way to get to Heaven, but we cannot set limits on God’s mercy.  The Church does not teach that any individual human is in Hell, but rather that Hell is a very real possibility for any living human.  (Obviously the Church teaches that one specific individual person is in Hell, Satan.) 

Once a person is in Hell, nothing can bring them out of it.

I’m actually really curious, though.  Which philosophers interested you, and what made you curious?

[catholicoutlook]

Though all would bow to me Till I could drink my fill of fear and love It's not enough, it's not enough

This Advent, remember:

-You are dust, and to dust you shall return

-Nothing in this world can satisfy the hungry human heart.  Not even just that everyone has issues, but rather even if you had the best most perfect earthly life you could imagine, it still would not give you purpose or genuine happiness.  

-If this is a season of hope, we must currently be in some sort of deficient state which we hope to get out of.

-If you want to be filled with Christ, first you must be empty of everything not Him.

[ivan-fyodorovich-deactivated202]

The triumph of the Church in society…is a puerile dream of millenarians who have convinced themselves that the Son of God came into this world to put at their disposal the actual goods of this world for their own enjoyment.  The Church is not and will never be triumphant in society.  Her triumph is elsewhere and on a higher plane, within souls and for eternity…It is necessary to redeem and save each generation and every individual bowed down under the weight of human misery, and, for this redemption and salvation, it is necessary to give birth to the new man by the life of Christ. The Church’s role until the end is not, therefore, to enter into a legal order established by others so as to vindicate it and profit from it; her role until the end is to take up, as Christ did, the burden of human misery, the misery of all souls whoever they may be, so as to work with them for their deliverance. And, from this point of view, do you not at least perceive what an alliance with some to triumph over others really would be? Would it not be a case of the Church’s reducing herself to the terrestrial, of her abandoning what is celestial by virtue of her origin and her destiny? Of her making herself a party and partial, instead of universal and catholic as God wished so that she be the means of the salvation of the world without exclusion of anyone? And if the Church’s role is not to ally herself with anyone, it is because her role is to be for everyone.

Lucien Laberthonnière, quoted by Michael Sutton in Nationalism, Positivism and Catholicism: The Politics of Charles Maurras and French Catholics 1890-1914 (via ivan-fyodorovich)

This Advent, do not let politics trouble you.  Do not let your own anxiety and ego trouble you.  Empty yourself so that Christ can enter you like He did the world on Christmas morn.  

Holiday season is a time for family gatherings and undoubtedly politics will come up.  Prepare yourself ahead of time, not for a fight, but for a listen.  Listen to the fears around you that drive people to their political opinions.  Shine the light of truth, goodness, and beauty unhindered by fear, envy, and lust.  Grow closer with your family and friends.

[sonia-marmeladova]

Do you have advise for someone considering converting to Catholicism?

as a convert myself, the Church makes it very difficult to convert. RCIA can feel shallow. you may hear “Jesus is my boyfriend” theology and you may see bad aesthetics and you may attend a Mass with bad singers and a poor choice in hymns. you may meet many catholics who are prideful, or who idolize tradition, or who cannot quote Scripture. you will be left wondering if God intended for His Church to feel so bland and unfamiliar, and if this is the One True Church at all.

i received my Sacraments in a church community that was…not very helpful. i received coloring sheets in my classes. the teachers couldn’t answer most of my questions. some of them literally taught heresy. many catholics have very poor biblical exegesis and catechesis. i had to take the mindset of trying to get the best of what i could out of every class to receive my Sacraments so i could find something better. and believe me, i am so glad i endured the boomer priests and bad hymns and coloring sheets.

catholicism is also a culture - there is a vocabulary, a common experience, and it can be hard to break into the culture and feel like you belong. i still feel wary talking to cradle catholics, even my cradle catholic boyfriend, because of some sort of religious impostor syndrome. catholicism is rich with history and philosophers and theologians and customs; there are thousands upon thousands of materials, encyclicals, passions, etc. to read and million homilies to hear. and when you first enter, there is culture shock. many converts do not “feel” catholic until they have spent time in catholicism.

despite all these limitations, i am so grateful to have converted. there is so much you will be able to find. and if your church community doesn’t “do it” for you, if your classes are bad, if it feels shallow, know that good communities and solid catholics do exist. many of them are canonized saints who have left behind their writings. sometimes you must seek the truth in spite of the church, ironic as it sounds. the wrestle with the Church authorities and the wrestle with Catholicism in spite of Catholicism is, well, monumentally Catholic. exploration is necessary, and it is the unfortunate fact that there are flaws and inefficiencies and even corruptions in the Church. despite these things, there is still the crux of doctrine and the Sacraments that keep us bound in One Body. particularly, there is the heart of our faith: the Eucharist.

final piece of advice: read, and study church history. it isn’t always pretty. but it does unlock a deeper understanding of the history of the west generally. included in this is study of the early Church - it will affirm and validate your faith. you will find that apostolic succession, clergy, the Mass, the Eucharist, etc. were in fact the practices and beliefs of the early Church. studying church history is also necessary to know what you are getting into. if you want to marry Catholicism, you will marry into her history too, and even you as a convert will be judged by it and because of it.

[catholicoutlook]

sometimes you must seek the truth in spite of the church, ironic as it sounds. the wrestle with the Church authorities and the wrestle with Catholicism in spite of Catholicism is, well, monumentally Catholic.

[schrodingers-blursed-kitty]

Mary did you know is not a bad song

I know I'm gonna get hate for this. I always disliked seeing discourse about this in the catholic sphere. While there may be some minor flaws, I think it has potential to be a good thing

Firstly, if you look at it more from a perspective of asking in awe, it's actually quite moving. Like asking an astronaut, did you know the view of earth would be so beautiful? Of course they knew it would be beautiful, but that's not the point. The point is the sheer marvel at the earth and the fact that we can see their marvel at the experience, further increasing our marvel.

Same thing with asking Mary if she knew that Jesus would do many great things and help many people. Of course she knew, but that's not the point. The point is our and her sheer marvel at him. And you can see this in scripture as she sees him grow up and the feeling, the fullness of reality came to her. I think of the time she saw Jesus with the rabbis when he was 12, or with Simeon's prophecy in the temple. The seven sorrows of Mary as she felt what was happening on a deeper level, moving from knowledge to experience

Secondly, it's a stepping stone, and has potential to open a dialogue and to bring our protestant brothers and sisters closer to us, and closer to Jesus. We have the rosary, in which we look at different events in her and Jesus's life, and can give us insight into their relationship and just how beautiful he is and that relationship is. I mean, it's basically a meditation on the nativity, one of the joyful mysteries of the rosary.

It's like asking your fiance's mom about his childhood. You get more insight and know him more, and can love him more. It's what we mean with "to Jesus through Mary" and part of intercession

This is an aspect of Catholicism that has huge potential to benefit many people. I've talked with many current and former protestant women who mentioned the lack of feminine role models and how it was detrimental to them. And how many churches and pastors actively avoided talking about her except to dunk on catholics. Even if there is no "mass conversion", it can still really benefit non catholic christians

TLDR: Mary did you know may have its flaws, but it can lead to meditation on the nativity and the relationship between her and Jesus, especially among non catholic christians who may otherwise not have the opportunity

[catholicoutlook]

Thank you for putting into words what I’ve been thinking this whole time.

Growing up my town (in a predominantly Catholic area) had a Christmas Ballet that used this song and it was a beautiful reflection on Mary’s joy and pain.  Happy Virgin and Mother of Sorrows are both the title of the same person, and this song reminds me of this dichotomy by tying together the infant Jesus with His difficult mission.  “This child that you delivered, will soon deliver you,” reminds me of the cross.  I guess that line could be the contentuous one, but Catholics also believe that Jesus’ sacrifice was necessary for Mary to be born sinless and that Jesus saved her in a timey-wimey sort of way. 

Also, we shouldn’t be discouraging non-Catholics from meditating on Mary.  Mary is awesome,and the closer you get to her, the closer you get to Jesus. 

[ivan-fyodorovich-deactivated202]

How do I explain to Catholics how I think they should present themselves in order to win people over to their cause

Why am I engaged in this exercise?

Look, @vibiaveritas, I don’t believe in Catholicism because I don’t trust massive centralized institutions, because of its history, because of its obvious historical and continuous lust for worldly power, and because I am skeptical of various doctrines, for example how weird the church is about Mary, I’m not convinced she was a perpetual virgin, I’m skeptical of the doctrine of the Eucharist, I don’t like the need for priestly confession, I believe in sola fide and sola gratia, etc. etc.

The fact that most Catholics are sanctimonious assholes is just icing on the cake, but of course it’s not unique to Catholicism because most people are assholes.

The sex abuse scandal is another issue entirely.  I am at a loss for how to express to Catholics how this looks to outsiders, and how their explanations, excuses, apologies, etc. come across.  I am at my wit’s end, and I don’t know why I keep trying.

[catholicoutlook]

Lets see if we can reach some kind of empathy together.

How do you feel Catholics should react when people tell them they should leave the Church over the abuse scandals?

How do you feel Catholics layity should react when people call them child-rapists?

How do you feel Catholics should react when people tell them that they aren’t sorry enough for the abuse committed by others in their faith?

How would you react if the whole world discovered that your sect of Christiantiy has been covering up child abuse?  That 10% of pastors in your region, a handful of famous apologists and speakers for your sect, and anyone else famous you can think of were collaborating together to hide evidence of child abuse committed by a handful of pastors. 

Are most Catholics sanctimonious assholes or just the young adult ones you find on the internet who haven’t been knocked over by the wolrd a dozen times yet?  (I think I personally am only on my 10th time, so I might still be a little sanctimonious.)

[catholicoutlook]

@ivan-fyodorovich - For some reason my posts don’t show up in your notes.  If you saw the above and ignored it then feel free ignore this too.  Just wanted to alert you if there was a technical bug. 

[ivan-fyodorovich-deactivated202]

How do I explain to Catholics how I think they should present themselves in order to win people over to their cause

Why am I engaged in this exercise?

Look, @vibiaveritas, I don’t believe in Catholicism because I don’t trust massive centralized institutions, because of its history, because of its obvious historical and continuous lust for worldly power, and because I am skeptical of various doctrines, for example how weird the church is about Mary, I’m not convinced she was a perpetual virgin, I’m skeptical of the doctrine of the Eucharist, I don’t like the need for priestly confession, I believe in sola fide and sola gratia, etc. etc.

The fact that most Catholics are sanctimonious assholes is just icing on the cake, but of course it’s not unique to Catholicism because most people are assholes.

The sex abuse scandal is another issue entirely.  I am at a loss for how to express to Catholics how this looks to outsiders, and how their explanations, excuses, apologies, etc. come across.  I am at my wit’s end, and I don’t know why I keep trying.

[catholicoutlook]

Lets see if we can reach some kind of empathy together.

How do you feel Catholics should react when people tell them they should leave the Church over the abuse scandals?

How do you feel Catholics layity should react when people call them child-rapists?

How do you feel Catholics should react when people tell them that they aren’t sorry enough for the abuse committed by others in their faith?

How would you react if the whole world discovered that your sect of Christiantiy has been covering up child abuse?  That 10% of pastors in your region, a handful of famous apologists and speakers for your sect, and anyone else famous you can think of were collaborating together to hide evidence of child abuse committed by a handful of pastors. 

Are most Catholics sanctimonious assholes or just the young adult ones you find on the internet who haven’t been knocked over by the wolrd a dozen times yet?  (I think I personally am only on my 10th time, so I might still be a little sanctimonious.)

[catholicoutlook]

This may be a bit weird, but I am looking into Catholicism, and it seems amazing! I feel the holy ghost... But I'm still stuck between orthodoxy too but I don't feel like God is guiding me there. But I don't know how I feel on some catholic teachings. Should I push through Catholicism because I felt God so strongly yet don't feel him in orthodoxy?

As a Catholic who believes in the Catholic faith, I think it would be awesome if you became Catholic.  Orthodoxy is pretty great as well, though it also has it’s own baggage. 

If you are interested in Orthodox spirituality or liturgy, you may want to investigate one of the non-Roman Catholic Churches, like the Byzantine Catholic Church or Chaldaen Catholic Church

Ultimately, you need to go where the Holy Spirit calls you.  If you have questions about specific teachings, perhaps I can help clear things up or provide a different perspective on them.