1. Would you fall in love with me again -AUGH IT WAS SO SWEET and the harmonizing?? The lyrics?? The instrumentals??
2. Odysseus - Love how Odysseus is in this, the part where he calls Telemachus “My Boy” and the bloodshed?? The screaming, the guy who couldn’t say mercy??
3. The Challenge -Penelope solo song!!! Vocals were incredible like always, love the lyrics - especially with the shroud part, so sweet.
4. I can’t help but wonder - I LOVE TELEMACHUS AND ODYSSEUS BONDING, I didn’t think that it was on the same level as the other songs, it felt a bit…out of place in the sense that the rhythm & beat didn’t seem consistent
5. Hold Them Down - don’t get me wrong, this song is incredible. An incredible villain song, but the animatic plus the lyrics made me sick, props to Jorge for showing how the suitors were in The Odyssey but genuinely made me sick (especially with my own trauma with SA) so it’s last, unfortunately
Hello!! I’m doing my English final on AI and decided to make a form to get more responses. It is all anonymous unless you choose to give a name at the end. Please take your time and give whatever answers is honest to your opinion. Thank you
We all know that Poseidon being tortured was easy. I’ve seen interpretations of Ares helping out Odysseus during this song due to the red eyes but I have a different take.
Poseidon let himself be tortured, not because he wanted to but because he was testing Odysseus. He wanted to see if Odysseus finally learned his lesson of Ruthlessness being mercy. He didn’t ask Odysseus to stop until Odysseus said:
“Didn’t you say ruthlessness is mercy upon-”
He could’ve asked sooner, the reason why he was screaming or calling Odysseus a monster was to see if he would stop, if he would stop and retrain some of his old self.
Get in The Water was the last time we see Odysseus’ old self, which can relate to the Tiresias (the prophet):
“I see you draw your final breath…I see a man who gets to make it home alive but it’s no longer you”
Odysseus’ final breath was Get in The Water when he was dragged down, before he opened the bag.
We can also relate Poseidon questioning how Odysseus will sleep at night to his old self, when he was talking to Athena in Remember Them/My Goodbye:
“The blood we shed it never dies”
"Whats a title a goddess could lend if I'll never sleep at night”
The difference between this Odysseus and 600 Strikes is important. Odysseus no longer deals with the strain of being ruthless. He finally learned the lessen Poseidon was trying to teach.
“Use your wit and try to tell me I’m crazy and mad.” -Eurylochus in Mutiny
So, fun fact about this lyric! Odysseus’ great grandpa is Hermes, making Odysseus 1/8th god.
Hermes is the god of many things, but one of those things is Wit. So, Eurylochus was literally telling Odysseus to use whatever powers he inherited from Hermes and manipulate him.
As someone whose been apart of this fandom since the Troy saga, I’ve noticed a trend of people get upset over simple things. YouTube Reactors accidentally listening in the wrong order or not listening to a certain animatic or someone for simply having an opinion.
I know all fandoms have this discourse but honestly, I’m just making this post to say it’s okay for people to criticize Epic or talk about their opinions. Yes- Jorge and everyone on the team has worked really hard and yes, it’s a concept album but we can still have these opinions.
I also found that the Epic community can sometimes be overwhelming or even unwelcoming at times. So, can we all collectively chill?
Here’s an opinion of mine that I’m going to share: While it’s cool each character has a ‘signifier’ instrument, most of them are unclear when overlapping others and the vocals. It just feels like a lot to listen to at times and pick apart. And, some voices are hard to discern from each other and using the instruments is hard to do that also.
We all know about the Telemachus and Polites parallels but how do we think Odysseus is going to feel when he comes home and see how much his son represents his dead best friend?
Also, side note unrelated to the post but BY THE GODS can we stop babying Telemachus, he is a 20 year old man. (Also, Ares did have a point about his claim in God Games but that’s a separate post)
“You’ve hurt me enough” / “When I kill you my pain is over” / “You won’t live through this day, now die”
-Polyphemus in Survive
I just find this part interesting because Polyphemus had every right to be mad and upset because:
1) Host rules— in Ancient Greek, there was a policy called ξενία (English: Xenia) which consisted of two rules- Respect from Hosts to Guests, Respect from Guests to Hosts. Odysseus was a guest in Polyphemus’ cave and broke the rules of ξενία by killing Polyphemus’ favorite sheep and was a threat.
2) After the “gift exchange” (aka Odysseus giving Polyphemus the wine), Polyphemus thought he was being nice by letting Odysseus be the final man to die— because he gets to live longer than the rest and keep in mind that Polyphemus doesn’t understand human customs, he’s a cyclops and a monster.
….
“We are a different beast now” / “No more of us deceased now cause we won’t take more suffering from you” / “You are a threat no longer”
-Odysseus and the Crew in Different Beast
This draws parallels to Polyphemus because the sirens never directly hurt Odysseus or the crew (yet), so it made no sense for it to be “We won’t take more suffering from YOU” if they never hurt them. So it makes sense for it to be a parallel to be to Polyphemus and when their suffering and all their problems started. It also details how, if Odysseus had the chance he would kill Polyphemus (also related to “I made a mistake like this, it almost cost my life. I can’t take more risks on not seeing my wife.”) and then Odysseus cut off their tails.
It just shows how in this situation, Odysseus is the monster and causing the suffering. Not the monsters themselves. Throughout Epic it’s about Odysseus learning to be ruthless but in the process he has to become a monster, which kind of draws the question of are the monsters “monsters” because they’re just following what they were made to do and just following their instincts? Or, alternatively; When does a man become a monster :)
“What’s a title a goddess could lend if ill never sleep at night”
Compared to
“Maybe if I helped you reach your goal- Life could be that bright, I could sleep at night”
It just shows how Athena changed from thinking Odysseus was being dramatic about his guilt with his dead crew members to understanding how and why Odysseus felt that way because she feels the same way Odysseus felt, she had no way of knowing if Odysseus was dead after My Goodbye and that guilt that is shown in We’d be Fine- just the pure guilt and reconsideration of if Athena did something different, would Odysseus still be there. That just makes her more human and I love it so much
The doors to Olympus are sturdy and strong, given everyone's preferences for drama and slamming said doors open and sending them cracking into the wall whenever the opportunity arises. Which is why it's a surprise when they creak open during the once-a-decade pantheon meeting; less so because no entity worth their salt would take so long to open the doors, and more so because everyone who is anyone is already there.
But if everyone is being honest with themselves- which no one is, usually- these gatherings are boring enough that the bland conversation is dropped immediately in favour of craning their necks to catch a glimpse of whatever is coming to relieve them of their boredom.
When the doors finally open however, several of the pantheon murmur in surprise.
"Odysseus," Athena whispers, wide-eyed as she pushes herself off her throne to her feet. It is him- in the king's garb he was buried in, hair long and grey, face oddly blank. His feet are transparent.
"What are you doing here, sceptre?" Poseidon booms, hair the color of a stormy sea. Zeus, beside him, looks reserved, observing the ghost with something approaching curiosity- eyes flicking to the lightning scars on his daughter's face and back. "Your time has long passed, and Hades-"
"It is a temporary agreement," Odysseus says curtly, barely sparing him a glance as he approaches his patron. "Athena."
Her armour clinks as she steps forward and the gods all twitch, trading glances. Owls are silent creatures- to have her aspect so affected to make noise was... uneasy to say the least. She even holds herself different than usual, something like confused delight shining in her eyes. "How did you-"
"Did you sleep with my wife?"
The throne room is silent. Several jaws drop.
Athena straightens back up, blinking in surprise. She looks a bit shifty, some of the nymphs closest whisper to each other, which- well, almost every single god present owed some part of their existence to the mere story of Odysseus loving his wife.
Would he fight his own patron goddess over it in front of Mount Olympus, though? He certainly was unbalanced enough; Athena herself looked rather uncertain of her odds, even though-
"Are you addled in death, King of Ithaka?" Artemis drawls, looking amused. "Did you forget that your own patron is celibate? Whatever rumor you-"
"No, I-" Athena says suddenly, shifting her spear to her other hand. "I did."
Artemis chokes on her breath and several assorted divine beings gasp in shock and the rest shouting for explanations, although everyone is nearly drowned out by Aphrodite's loud, "WHAT?"
Odysseus inhales sharply and pinches the bridge of his nose. "I cannot believe you."
"She asked-" Athena starts, only to be drowned out by the din of various beings screeching and shouting about the scandal.
"ATHENA!" Hera hisses, peacock tail fanning behind her sharply as she pushes herself up. "Explain yourself!"
Athena half-turns to face her, face creased in a frown. "Mother, I-"
"LET ME REPHRASE!" Odysseus cuts in loudly, and the shouting settles down into silence. He walks to his patron, eyes blazing. "I cannot believe," he throws his clenched fists wide as he growls the last word, "-you took Penelope to bed-" Athena surprisingly stays still as he reaches her, mouth falling open as he grabs her by the chiton to yank her down, uncaring of the gasps of horror from all around as he snarls, "-before you ever kissed me."
And then Odysseus grabs Athena by the face roughly and kisses her.
This time Aphrodite's shriek cannot be escaped by anyone.
"Aphrodite, please," Zeus says a few moments later, wincing as his throne reforms around him, stained oddly pink. Quite a few minor entities have discorporated, and the ones nearest to her are still trying to regenerate their hearing. "Control yourself."
Their eyes land back on where Athena has dropped her spear- dropped her spear, Ares in the corner seems to be having some minor hysteria over this, well warranted- and is also on the floor, still being thoroughly kissed by that insufferable, mannerless hero of hers, perched on her stomach to reach. Zeus inhales in fury, Poseidon close behind him as the shock wears off, lightning crackling around his fingers as he opens his mouth to shout- of all the indignities-
"If you two ruin this for me," Aphrodite thunders, warping in front of them and glaring. "I will make you both regret it."
Both gods visibly blanch at the threat, taken aback for one brief moment. Threats from Aphrodite are far worse than any of her more violent siblings, at the end of the day.
Zeus visibly gathers himself just as Athena's helmet clatters to the floor, and he gains a second wind immediately, eye twitching as he spreads a hand to the spectacle in the middle of the hall. "WHAT MANNER OF DISRESPECT IS THIS? TO BARGE INTO OUR MEETING AND THROW ONE OF THE OLDEST GODDESSES TO THE FLOOR LIKE A COMMON WENCH-"
"Zeus," Hera says quietly. Everyone falls silent, although it's not quite enough to stop the two tangled together on the ground. She clears her throat, which finally seems to get through to Athena, who had finally seemed to have gotten over her shock enough to reach out, hands hovering over Odysseus hesitantly. Still, at the noise she seems to remember herself, pushing herself up on an elbow and dislodging him enough to break their necking. He pouts at her, but Athena's eyes are too glazed over to notice, heaving for breath.
Hera opens her mouth to speak, crown manifesting on her brow as she steps in front of the throne, but closes it as the door rattles again.
This time, the spectre shimmers with a faint hint of scales that comes with a freshwater nymph's heritage and excited whispers starved for drama explode across the room as the Queen of Ithaka steps into the room, skirts hitched in her hand and panting as if she'd been running.
"Your Graces," She bows respectfully before entering, Spartan princess through and through, until she catches sight of her husband and Athena, the former of whom seems to have taken the opportunity to start kissing the wisdom goddess again, fingers in her curls.
"What are you doing?" She snaps, rushing over. The entire courtroom holds its breath. She slaps her husband upside the head, making him yelp and move back to shoot her a betrayed look. Athena looks even further dazed than before, cheeks red. "Argos has more manners than you! No wonder Lady Athena wanted nothing to do with you- ah, hello, darling, by the way."
"Penelope," Athena murmurs hoarsely, and the Queen of Ithaka leans down to kiss her as well.
Odysseus chuckles, then jumps with everyone else as Hera slams a hand down on the throne elegantly, cracking it to the base.
"Ah, goddess-" He says, clambering off Athena to bow.
"Silence," Hera interrupts, holding up a hand, eyes cold. "You will not say anything to me apart from an explanation. My agreement for your release from Ogygia was due to the assurance that your marriage was one of the truest I have ever witnessed, conveyed by Athena herself when bartered with all of us to let you go. Tell me, was it a ploy? Because from the disgraceful looks of it, this seems to not be the case in the slightest."
Odysseus frowns, face twisting in confusion. "Athena bartered with...?" He turns to look at his patron, who stares back, unspeaking. His eyes flicker to the lightning scar over her right eye as Penelope traces it with horrified eyes and a gentle thumb, and understanding seems to dawn.
For a moment, rage seems to fill him, glaring with a hatred towards Zeus that everyone whispered later wasn't met by the god king with anger, but a flicker of remorse- before he visibly throws it away behind Athena's old smile and bows.
"God-queen," He says formally, gracefully. Hera twitches a bit, and they'll all talk later about how odd it was to so clearly see Athena's younger mannerisms in the man, down to the curl of the letters. "My marriage to Penelope has never been false, never been broken, this I promise you." He takes Penelope's hand and squeezes it for emphasis, and she raises them as acknowledgement. "But... can you not argue that Athena has been part of our marriage all this time? From its start, where she advised me on courting and her on what to look for, to the twenty years she spent with both of us- me on the battlefield and Penelope in the court; to say nothing of how she helped raise our son and lived in our palace in the days after. And is she not so unbearably beautiful that even my Penelope couldn't wait-" He shoots a glare at her, which Penelope returns with a smile. "-when the chance was presented? How can you fault us for disgrace, after being so long apart from our wife?"
Hera raises both eyebrows at the impudence, the kind of disbelieving expression that hides a warning to tread carefully. "So you claim to be both married to Pallas Athena?"
"In every way that matters except legality," Odysseus says, fearlessly. He is dead, after all, what much can you do to a shade that they didn't already put him through when alive. He is sort of worried about Athena, though, as they both help her back to her feet, Penelope busy whispering compliments and updates and endearments in turn- she's not usually one to be quiet in face of a problem.
Hera tilts her head. "Ah, but you see. I need the legality, if I am to finally-" A helpless, excited smile pulls at her lips once, twice, before unfolding into a bright grin, peacock tails unfolding to their full wingspan. "-finally arrange for a marriage for my eldest daughter who has not once- oh finally, I can hardly believe this day has come-"
"I do not like the way you grabbed her, Sacker of Troy," Ares steps forward as Hera starts ranting half to herself, half to an equally loud assemblage of joyful entities about wedding arrangements, eyes narrowed.
Odysseus barks an incredulous, loud laugh, gesturing to Athena with a slightly crazed look in his eyes. "This lady has broken- and I do not exaggerate- every single bone in my body before I saw my sixteenth year. I have punched her a hundred times in the face when she taught me how to fight. We'll survive, thanks."
"That is fair," Ares steps back, hands raised.
"What duties will you provide as spouses, Ithakan Queen?" Hestia questions, stepping forward.
"Oh, the same we did when we were living," Penelope huffs a laugh. "Keep her busy, make her laugh, be of mild frustration to her, love her well, worship her-"
"I do not. Need to know," Hestia closes her eyes and raises a hand to cut her off, stepping back. Around them, the din catches speed and volume as no further objections arise, excitement spilling into the air.
"What is happening?" Athena says faintly, looking around as if she was just waking up.
"-oh, and we can get out the decor once more! Hebe, Aphrodite, loves, do you remember where we kept the fountains-"
"-finally, a reason to celebrate! Call them all out of hiding-"
"-can't believe this is finally happening, oh sister, what songs should we-
"Why am I getting married," Athena says with much more alarm and horror. She turns to Odysseus and shakes him by the shoulder, eyes wild. "What did you do?"
"Nothing!"
"How is this nothing? Do you have any idea the headache-"
"Athena, sweetheart, will you consider changing for the ceremony?"
Creakily, she turns her head to Hera, disbelief pasted across her face. "Mother," She says slowly. "They are both dead."
"Oh, I'll make a deal with Hades or something, you hush!" Aphrodite leans forward and snaps, before her irritation melts back into a manic joy. "Oh, what paint shall we do?"
Paint, Athena mouths, looking afraid for possibly the first time since her conception.
Penelope laughs and tugs on Athena's hand to make her turn, tucking dishevelled curls behind her ear. She wonders if the goddess knows how beautiful she is when she's flustered. "Take us away," She whispers. On Athena's other side, Odysseus leans against their patron with a besotted, helpless smile as he stares up at her, her helmet and spear in hand. She'd missed Athena like a limb, missed her deep laugh at night when they'd discussed the day's court, the dry jokes, the hands over hers as she weaved- but Odysseus wasn't himself without her, happy though they were in Hades' lands together, all of them.
"I'm-" Athena wavers, then looks around once more at all the excited screaming, something unreadable flashing in her eyes. Almost against her will, her eyes fall to Zeus, who is sitting silently and staring back at her. Poseidon looks like he still wants to start a fight, but clearly by his wary looks below can tell he will be heavily outnumbered by the overexcited crowd to not try.
"We ask you formally this time," King Odysseus says, walking in front of her to take her attention away, holding onto her hand. His voice has strength in it, drawing the eyes of the murmuring crowd, but he's deaf to it as he stares up at her.
"Will you be our wife?" Queen Penelope asks, joining him, watching their beautiful patron shudder for breath she does not need as her eyes flick to one of them and then the other.
"Yes," She whispers and cheers erupt all across Mount Olympus.
"Finally!" Odysseus complains, and then pulls her down once more to kiss her, all three of them fading at the edges as one of the generous gods present there- who seems to realize that they're not very inclined to stop anytime soon- thankfully teleports them away into a nice room with a large bed.
"Finally," He whispers as he breaks apart to lay her down, cupping her face, voice heavy with the longing of a full lifetime and more. Penelope circles to the head of the bed and starts undoing Athena's braid, staring at them both lovingly.
Later the ones closest will murmur, as the silhouettes faded away, that tears had slipped from proud Pallas Athena's eyes as she placed one hand against Odysseus' cheek, trembling.
"I missed you," She will whisper back, and all three of them fade away to their own story, yet to be made.
Thank you to @navy-nyoom for the information. This is all just my estimation that might be wrong.
The Trojan war (Beginning of Troy Saga) lasted 10 years.
The Cyclops saga was probably around 3 months, since they had to sail to the Lotus Eaters island.
The Ocean Saga was probably 6 months or so, with Odysseus sailing and Poseidon drowning most of the fleet
The Circe Saga was probably two months or so, since they washed up on Circe’s island and had to travel to the underworld.
The Underworld Saga was probably a year considering Odysseus’s MAJOR ptsd in Love in Paradise, and having to sail through the underworld and back out.
The start of the Thunder saga makes it 12 years from Ithaca and assuming that it takes like, 5 months after Different Beast to get to Scylla and an unknown amount of time for Odysseus to land on Calypso’s island to make it 13 years.
The Wisdom Saga makes it 20 years since Odysseus left Ithaca with the 7 year time skip from Thunder Saga spent on Calypso’s island.
Circe Saga - sometime After ocean, Ody says it’s been 12 years since leaving Ithaca but Jorge says this was a mistake
Underworld Saga - sometime after Circe
Thunder Saga - the start of it is ACTUALLY 12 years since leaving Ithaca. Unknown how long it took to reach Scylla after Different Beast
Wisdom Saga - 7 years after Thunder Saga, 20 since leaving Ithaca. Athena goes through Odysseus’s memories and finds out he’s been on Calypso’s island since the end of the Thunder Saga.
GUYS GUYS GUYS GUYS GUYS THE LIVESTREAM IS UP!! 6 HOURSSSS
Also here’s the cover in case you want to have it!! And, I hope it’s okay to tag you but if you want to reblog this you can since it has the cover for the live! @epicthemusicalstuff
I keep hearing people say that Odysseus never apologized properly to Poseidon but in the Greek way he did.
Basically the Greek word that apology is derived from- Apologia means “Speaking in Defense”.
Basically the Greeks would explain why you did what you did while expressing sympathy and remaining respectful.
The reason why Poseidon didn’t accept the apology was because Odysseus permanently crippled Poseidon’s son which was like, a great disgrace for that time period- it would’ve been more honorable to kill Polyphemus.
But anyways- my whole point was that Odysseus DID apologize correctly but due to the disgrace of what Odysseus did, it’s why Poseidon was so angry and said, “This totally could’ve been avoided had you just killed my son.”
This is why Odysseus was quiet when Eurylochus apologized for the wind bag- because he didn’t apologize correctly per the time period, he just said “I’m so sorry, forgive me.” He didn’t give a defense or reasoning, he just begged to be forgiven.
Something I noticed in Epic: The Musical is that Eurylochus wanted to tell Odysseus about the wind bag in the Circe Saga- specifically in Puppeteer;
“Captain I have something I must confess, something that I must get off my chest. Until it is said, I cannot rest.”
Odysseus brushes off Eurylochus, saying that it could wait.
The thing is is that Eurylochus felt guilty from the beginning for opening the wind bag as Puppeteer takes place right after Ruthlessness, but Odysseus never gave Eurylochus a chance to say it until Scylla.
The little references or Easter eggs across Epic is making me nerd out so this blog is just for the little things I notice and connect
