my favorite yugamu moment thus far is when he enacted That plan in second scenario to force sirei to make contact with the artificial satellite. it says a lot about his character imo that he basically did everything alone without telling anyone else whatsoever. his cause alone could’ve easily recruited some help especially with the buying time part but noooo let’s drug other people into aggression instead (not to mention the surgical bomb removal??? guy who loudly wants to cut other ppl open would rather look into the mirror and perform it on himself. no anesthesics). when he told takumi he has never seen himself as a team player he really meant it LMAO that distrustful pragmatic side of him also comes out a bit in kg route it’s so moe… this combined with how he usually takes a backseat and defers to takumi when it comes to many major decisions in the game pokes my brain real nicely…
only tangentially related but my fav sumikage scene/s are all in the smartass disease branch of the comedy route where yugamu spiritually holds takumi’s leash to prevent him from exploding. “yugamu left the room after lecturing me” severely underrated aspect of their dynamic i think.
kurara as sumikage wingman. i think yugamu keeps his crush close to his heart and flirts with no expectations for reciprocation so he doesn’t try to change anyone’s opinion when they doubt his sincerity (takumi included). kurara somehows learns of it and MALDS and grills the fuck out of yugamu for his horrid tastes. the perverted freak is still unfortunately a special boy of hers so like. what the hell sure i’ll help. i also wanna see her being especially scathing to takumi LMAOOOO
So recently I’ve been working on a guide to build a good team for the Post Game modes in Danganronpa V3 for a friend. In the end, this became so long that I decided it would be better to just post it publicly to help anyone else who needs it. This is not a full guide on the Dungeon Mode but more so how to craft the ideal team in preparation for it. Please keep in mind that this is just my personal way of crafting a team, there are many other methods that can bring about the same level of success. The guide is under the read more! If you spot any mistakes, please feel free to contact me so I can correct it.
Nagito Komaeda and Despair (Part 1)
also known as Nagito Komaeda and Chapter 0
Massive spoilers for Danganronpa 2 incoming (as always) but a major part of the storyline is in the reveal that most of the cast in Danganronpa 2 were part of Ultimate Despair (which then became the Remnants of Despair) the entire time, but they didn't know about it because their memories were wiped in the process of trying to use the Neo World Program (the program running the simulation everybody is in) to rehabilitate them. What this means is that there is a gap in time for each character where they were doing Junko things and despair things, this elusive timeline where they were "the bad guy" that would presumably contrast the people we know from the game proper. I say it's elusive because there is no robust depiction of the characters in this timeline, leaving a lot up to interpretation so that we the fans are allowed to make the cool Despair!Ibuki headcanons of all time.
However, for bits and chunks of the series, there are a few characters who get despair spotlight... And perhaps it might be easy to guess which character I'm going to talk about in this post. Arguably one of the characters that we get the most material of for their time as a Remnant of Despair is one Nagito Komaeda, on account of his role in Danganronpa Another Episode: Ultra Despair Girls. A game that maybe could use being at least watched a bit more often, which has pretty significant content when it comes to thinking about Nagito's character in general, but it isn't the only time Despair!Nagito makes an appearance. Or even the first. We have to attribute the origins of Remnant of Despair Nagito Komaeda content to the memory Hajime had pre-Chapter 6, Chapter 0.
My initial intention was to write a text wall talking about the Servant for the cool people who voted for it, but the analysis of the Servant to me is tantamount to analysing the concept of Nagito Komaeda and the effects of Junko's influence on him by its roots. The reason is because when I research this topic, I do so to contemplate and expand on the concept of Nagito as a Remnant of Despair, so a post that I'd make about this would have to serve the same purpose. I want to create a reference point for interpretations that can be drawn based on material that has Nagito Komaeda be a Remnant of Despair, and to be able to talk about the Servant, I need to talk about the scene that laid the foundation for key aspects of Nagito as a Remnant of Despair. To clarify, Chapter 0 is not the end all be all to Servant content, but it establishes baselines and has content that is worth thinking about when trying to interpret the Servant. At least for me, conversation about the Servant can't fully start without Chapter 0 so before you collectively yawn at my intro let's get a move on!
1
Making Despair Lemonade Out of Despair Lemon Peels
The thing to keep in mind when checking Chapter 0 is that the content is limited in scope: a scene this short isn't going to establish a fountain of unshakable facts, so there are a lot of things that will be very much subject to multiple interpretations. The point of this post is going to be to introduce these things so that we can collectively do our thinking statue impression, because we'll have more questions than we will answers. However, even a scene so short will make me hit the image limit if I truly go over every single thing there, so what I'm going to do as a compromise is that this post will have the content relevant to the topic of Nagito Komaeda and despair, while this handy dandy google document:
Introduction This is just a document with the alternative translation for Chapter 0! There isn’t a lot to talk about, besides the usual dis
... Is going to have the rest of the yapping that isn't necessarily relevant to despair and Nagito. Through this, I can talk about Izuru while moving on to the meat of the content for this post here, so basically for any Izuru enjoyer who may be interested in my particular takes for some ungodly reason can check the google document. It's where all the ships and boats are.
Which yes does mean the ships and boats are going to be skipped here sorry Izuru Kamukura your love is in another document, but the gist is that the boats were the conversation opener for one Nagito Komaeda to break the silence as Izuru was vibing to the waves, and though he's almost shut down by Izuru not getting the laughs and the hahas, Nagito regardless asks to chat because he's bored:
But quite honestly this passage is translated in such a baffling way that I have to press the pause button so that I may show you an alternative and break down what Izuru Kamukura was actually saying about Nagito here:
The first three lines are technically okay, but I personally feel like they're meant to have a flow of Izuru seeing something essential about Nagito that's buried underneath this external friendly surface. Izuru sees through Nagito's true character, because it's something that goes past that friendly exterior. Thus, Izuru is referring to the use of his Izuru snoot to detect something yucky because it's something not inherently visible, and it establishes a relationship between the two contrasting elements of the sludge underneath and Nagito's friendly surface, which is the "thin skin" being referred to. I didn't go that literal in translation because it doesn't seem to be a word used solely in its literal meaning, and is being used here by Izuru to remark this friendly nature as a superficial exterior that is veiling the yucky wonky sludge.
And then we have "In a sensible way, of course," which is definitely not what Izuru is saying there. What Izuru is trying to clarify is that his talk about stenches is just the vibes in the room that he feels rather than Nagito having literal sludge under his clothes. So, he's not trying to say that Nagito has foul stench in a sensible way (like what does that even MEAN), and I believe "sensory" was confused for "sensible" in translation, "sensory" itself not being a passable translation for 感覚的 (refers to matters of intuition, gut feeling, sensation, impression) in this context but is a literal translation and is why my tinfoil hat presents this theory. Either which way, Izuru is in fact saying that this is just his instinctive vibe check.
Then there's the final line, which is a very literal and thus misleading translation of what Izuru is trying to say, too. "The smell exclusive to those who were already finished" is already by itself a weird sentence in English because what does that truthfully mean? The cool people online and in general adapt it to the interpretation of finished as in "about to die" and connect it to Nagito's diagnoses, but I'm fairly sure that's not what Izuru is trying to say here, and wouldn't be a random Japanese person's first thought either.
I'm not gonna claim superiority in the terminology my brain came up with since I feel like I went the convoluted route for lack of suitable synonyms but the gist about this translation is that if looked solely at face value, it's 終わってる (finished) ヤツ (person but rude) but in any language, even English, there's always a term that if broken down by parts would have a literal meaning, but that in practice is its own specific term, right? This is a similar thing: a finished person (usually the term is 人として終わってる for finished as a person, but the verb to end in general has a lot of applications relating to a negative meaning of being done) in Japanese is something that exists to describe someone who is essentially a failure as a human being, they're finished because as a person, in terms of personal relationships/morality, they're done. You can search 終わってる人 right now and you'll find yourself with results solely about various Japanese people describing and/or giving warnings about how to watch out for these people, since this is basically terminology for someone who sucks. In other words, Izuru's snoot has sniffed out not the fact that Nagito is about to die, but that Nagito is bad as a person. This can mean a lot of things, ranging from evil psychopath to basically just a loser, but I decided to opt for the latter side of things under the assumption that the meaning relates to someone who is hopeless, unsalvageable and in that sense, wack in the way that he would not change his wack ways, indicating the type of lack of consideration that usually defines this terminology but not in a necessarily evil way.
So the tldr to Izuru's narration here is that he is shittalking Nagito to such degrees that the Japanese let's players who spare a reaction actually feel bad for Nagito in this scene. Izuru's Ultimate Vibe Check is in fact destroying Nagito Komaeda's career, because Izuru essentially doesn't believe in the nice guy act and thinks something wonky is going on. Why is that? There are a number of roads we can take with this, and normally I like to take all of them. The first thing that can pop to mind is the fact that Nagito right now is a Remnant of Despair and thus has done bad things for sure, and that the amount of sludge and loser energy Izuru is picking up is in fact the energy emanating from the added Junko influence. The second road to take is one related to Nagito Komaeda and Malice, the idea of a vibe check Hajime's made a few times in-game where he feels like there is some kind of spooky toxic aura emanating from Nagito past a surface level, most notably from Chapter 2 but has recurring presence also in spots like Chapter 5.
I say I like to take all roads because I personally like to see it as both referring to the added bonus of Remnant of Despair energy amplifying something that was already there: the layer of a darker feeling that has been defined as malice by Hajime before. This is not only potentially controversial but also the subject of its own text wall, so I'm going to leave it at that for now, but I think it's worth exploring because Izuru's snoot should be pretty good and contemplating exactly what that snoot picked up on can be the food for thought in completing a profile for Nagito that also accounts for the elephants that are hardly addressed, such as my friend Malice... (I'll get to you one day I gotchu bro)
Anyway, without knowing he got eviscerated in a matter of seconds, Nagito introduces himself:
And while it doesn't look like it's a lot, it will end up piling up to levels of importance that cannot be understated once combined with the Servant, so it's time to squeeze mililiters of juice. The first thing to note is Nagito is considering himself lucky here, referring to his good luck. Put a time travelling pin on this one for Part 2, because this is how dry the Servant well is gonna be and one thing that has to be contemplated is that Chapter 0 Nagito follows off of the Servant. Nagito referring to his luck is a trait that existed even in the past, so if it still exists in Chapter 0, it would intuitively mean that it's enduring even through the Servant and that there's a likely chance that his luck still works the same way. Though, I'm not going to say that in order to discourage people off of the fun theories surrounding how the world being in such bad shape could make bad luck have different categorization. I'm more so just saying that probably we're still dealing with the same guy in terms of his perception of luck.
The other thing to note is that Nagito is celebrating the fact that Izuru will talk to him, and this is before he knows Izuru is an amazing person. Nagito was the one who initiated conversation, wanting to break the silence and out of boredom, and since he can't assume that this was an Ultimate or from Hope's Peak Academy (as he would believe he is aware of all living Ultimates plus the Reserve Course is meant to all be dead), it would mean Nagito is doing something he would do to a person in general. Then, gauging from the fact that Izuru is simply replying to his conversation is happy that there is someone who will talk to him, something that would also probably apply to a general person. It's only after this point that Izuru endeavours to flex:
(...)
Izuru saying that he also has luck like some kind of possession intrigues Nagito, who likely is getting the feeling that he might be talking to someone extraordinary. He asks Izuru if he's from Hope's Peak Academy, but pauses because...
And this bears about a thousand reminders...
Even factoring in the anime, Izuru and Nagito don't know each other from anywhere! They are under the impression they are complete strangers and thus Nagito has never met Izuru in this gap in time where he was a Remnant of Despair. Ever!
And he doesn't know Nagito either yes! Anyway!
Nagito's interest in Izuru because if anything he may be out of the ordinary is another big fat interdimensional pin to keep in mind, because it maintains that general fascination that exists in Nagito's character from the timeline of Danganronpa 2. It will also serve as reference for the Servant and those who have played the game will maybe start connecting some dots...
Anyway, Izuru doesn't engage with any of Nagito's questions, prompting him to ask others:
Nagito has already referenced the fact that he didn't really get to talk to people much in a while, and now is talking about how he is told he isn't good at talking. This as a statement is ambiguous, because it doesn't necessarily mean Nagito himself thinks he sucks at conversation, simply that he is aware of this perception and that it would upset others. So, it can't stand as definitive evidence of anything in particular, but you will paradoxically enough have to take this as another pin because foreshadowing is a literary device that--
Anyway, Izuru has a moment of monologue about the general worthlessness of the normies and their desire to oppress talent because they feel inferior to it, along with a side dish of having been taught about the wonders of culling but unfortunately for Izuru we're dabbing out of that one except:
This comment that Nagito makes in the middle of Izuru's takes, the first time Nagito talks about the power of the talentless majority in the entire game to mention how it revolves around people who don't have talent, and that this is why the talented can be subjected to oppression by them. There are two points of interest here (that I can think of, anyway): the majority of society according to Nagito, and the reference this making to the parade of Hope's Peak Academy.
Throughout Danganronpa 2, the hope of the Ultimates is talked about as if standalone, based on what Nagito wants to see and how cool it just is, and because the talented are seen as capable of big and cool things, it doesn't give the impression that Nagito at the time was under the belief that they could be dominated by a majority. Though, we can't say that Nagito didn't have thoughts about this majority before Chapter 0: my statement just means that it wasn't mentioned outside of Chapter 0, but it's technically possible to consolidate the two opinions with enough speculation such as seeing this majority as a trial for the Ultimates, or strong people being strong on a vs individual basis but still obeying to the confines of society, etc. There's paths that can be taken here, but the one that most intrigues me is how this can tie back to the way the Servant will talk about the talentless majority in Ultra Despair Girls.
This brings me to the parade. I'm not gonna walk the reader through the entirety of the lore surrounding the Tragedy, but after Izuru's existence is doxxed to all of the Reserve Course, they start protesting against Hope's Peak Academy knowing their money was being used to create a guy that supposedly murdered a lot of people. This protest was called the parade, and this was the point everything went downhill, as it contested Hope's Peak Academy, and talent by consequence, in the eyes of society. Hope's Peak had to close down and then create that shelter for the surviving class, as the world fell to despair with that parade as the trigger. The dots I'm trying to connect, which you may do so if you want, is in that Nagito is saying that he and the rest of his class are in that present situation as a result of the sequence of events that led to the Tragedy, essentially pointing to it as an example of the talentless majority exercising power over the talented, and the decision would not have been positive as a result of the truths known about Hope's Peak Academy. Here I'm also making the assumption that he isn't necessarily saying he's one of the talented necessarily but is placing himself in a Hope's Peak non-Reserve Course bracket probably in consideration for how the majority bends to the will of the normie.
Anyway, what this all means is that Chapter 0 introduced the idea of Nagito contemplating the authority of the weak due to the power of the majority, which is interesting to consider in comparison to his words in Chapter 4 about how the strong are fueled by the weak. It's naturally important enough to warrant its own time travelling pin which will pierce the heavens, as we continue to skip Izuru dialogue. Nagito has something to say about how people expected a lot out of Izuru which is very much not that feel when Nagito's life story, but it falls under a pin already addressed so we're not covering this detail here and instead do a lil flashforward into the somehow not decaying meat of Junko Enoshima:
From here on we get the appearance of our (maybe just mine) unliving nightmare:
Otherwise known as Nagito's girlfriend, the Junko hand. As we'll soon see, Nagito is a little tsundere about the introduction of his sweetheart:
But worry not Izuru, Nagito was kind of speaking the truth. He DID try to kill Junko Enoshima before!
Just hetslop things I suppose!
Izuru finds himself compelled to wonder how can so twinkish a man be technically touching a woman, but this question unfortunately allowed further trauma into the brains of all people watching, as Nagito continues into monologue and yes I will be saying serious things later I'm just tldr'ing beforehand:
So, the reason for the existence of Chapter 0 in Danganronpa 2 is to provide some form of context and evidence of the fact that the cast used to be Remnants of Despair, in the form of a memory that Hajime has from his time as Izuru. In so doing, there is a need for this scene to not only portray Nagito, but to have that be done in such a way that doesn't put to question how far gone he is as a Remnant of Despair. This is where the Junko hand comes in, as part of fake Makoto's explanation on the Remnants of Despair:
Now, how much can we trust what Makoto is saying here? He does happen to not actually be Makoto, but just Junko in disguise. However, even when the real Makoto shows up, he doesn't contradict this part of the explanation, and the truth is Junko doesn't particularly need to lie here since, well... Nagito sticking her arm in place of his (no hetero) is already horrific, and adding the reasoning doesn't embellish that to that much higher a degree. Rather than adding more to this story, fake Makoto pivots to talking about other atrocities committed by the Remnants of Despair, so as to pile on the despair necessary to offer the cast the solution Junko wants to promote, the graduation program. This makes me inclined to believe that Junko's Ultimate Analyst analysis of Nagito's motivations are probably hitting the mark, and since this memory is meant to back this particular moment, to display just how horrific a Remnant of Despair is, it means the Junko hand is meant to contribute to our main aspect of research in this post: Nagito's post-Tragedy despair.
Nagito here is excitedly talking about The Hand because Izuru gave him the opportunity, since he questioned it when it presented himself. This is because the topic of Junko Enoshima by itself caused Nagito to move to that position, seemingly at the prospect of being able to meet her again. Even though there was no such guarantee from Izuru's words, since he only talked about using Junko and that he had something from her, Nagito went ahead and wondered about the possibility of seeing and killing her. Then, in talking about The Hand, he is ecstatic that it hasn't rotted because it can be taken to mean it lives in him, and I'd want to note that when he's saying he became one with Ultimate Despair at the end, the term used is more that he was able to take her in/consume her, which implies that she is included in him rather than a matter of equality when it comes to becoming one. Yes, we do require going over the logistics of Nagito absorbing Junko Enoshima energy.
I'm gonna put Makoto's explanation on a bit of a hold to continue onwards with Nagito's monologue, after Izuru remarked how boring it is to go scavenge Junko body parts. From here on, Nagito takes on further levels of tsundere:
Thankfully, not even Nagito could keep up the act for long and questioned the allegiance to his newly-taken archetype. Jokes aside, the juice that can be squeezed here is immense and probably another elephant in the room that is not often addressed, this being the duality of Nagito's feelings for Junko, as well as the way they tie to the themes of his character. The point that this scene wants to make about Nagito here is one that Monokuma explains in Chapter 6:
Lying in the principle behind the brainwashing of Junko upon the Remnants of Despair, and how that made them do the things that Makoto ends up explaining in the class trial. This is going to be a little complicated so I'm going over it from the start to then connect back to the duality I mentioned before, but Monokuma is talking about the type of control based on fear: by seeing Junko as always the bigger fish to fry, everything else becomes less significant and is relinquished in an attempt to escape that despair, producing more despair without even knowing. It creates an element of obliviousness to one's own deeds, where the Remnants of Despair aren't necessarily aware that they are dancing to Junko's tune, they instead have this idea that they have to do the things they do for their own goals.
Though it doesn't seem to be the case, it reflects on Mikan, too: she doesn't believe to be acting for despair (the image limit is upon me but I do have screenshots in the Chapter 3 text wall if one would like to certify what I'm saying), but out of love for Junko, which made her relinquish everything else to such an extreme that it can be considered hopeless. To her, Junko was the most significant existence, and from the rest of Monokuma's words, we can theorize that the happiness Mikan gained from receiving Junko's love probably had something sinister behind it, the fear of a despair that Junko can cause, without knowing that this is what is already causing it to begin with.
This makes the brainwashing in Danganronpa 2 have this interesting element where it doesn't actually break character for the people affected by it, and seemingly self-corrects to adjust to the idea of spreading despair in accordance to the personality of the individual. This brainwashing is also described in the anime, but I'll go over the particulars about the anime in some more detail later. The point here is that what Monokuma is saying reflects on Chapter 0, because Nagito is beholden to the same principles: Junko is a looming presence so significant that it causes Nagito to sacrifice a limb so that she can continue to exist, and in a way, so that she can be "defeated". Nagito's relationship with Junko here is opposite of Mikan at a glance, where Nagito is if anything focused on the idea that Junko is his greatest enemy, and that he wants to defeat her, making this despair be an effective threat even after her death. His is one of the examples used by Monokuma when talking about things offered for the sake of escaping despair, as Nagito sacrifices his arm for this purpose and is ecstatic that he was able to take in her power, connecting back to the logistics talked about before. In a way, we can see the absorption of Junko's power as an act where it could seem as though Nagito is dominant here oh god I kinda sound like one of those psychologists hear me out I'm just interpreting the game don't leave meeeee--
Lastly, this brainwashing does take effect in accordance to Nagito's character, because this is where the duality of the matter comes in. Junko is his enemy, and he does despises her... But Nagito's thematic existence is one of co-existing opposing extremes:
(stealing from another post I made because I can)
Contradiction is an essential part of Nagito's character, and it manifests in multiple different ways. Well, we don't have the official account of all those ways, so this can be contested, but the take that I'm going to present right now, out of what I believe to be multiple existing instances of contradiction in Nagito's character, is one that approaches the spectrum of love and hatred. The same way we can think of hope and despair as a yin and yang that connects back to the same thing, and how trust and doubt are interconnected, here we can explore the concept of how a hatred to its extreme is a form of love, because of the way you obsess and care about what that person is doing. For those in the audience who may be fans of characters with tension that is not necessarily friendly, you would if anything be more familiar with this principle than I ever would, but the implication behind Nagito's hatred being put to question by Nagito himself is because it truthfully is going to revolve back into love, as part of the way these complex feelings are interconnected and applied to the brainwashing that made him into a Remnant of Despair in the first place. Without being entirely on top of this himself, he ends up coming back around to loving Junko and doing things for the sake of that love. Now, love can mean different things, so what kind of love this is can be subject to interpretation (my personal one is the same as usual, where this love is more a type of obsession and worship), which I suppose if you're reading this text wall you might know even more than I do the many ways people may or may not talk about Nagito Komaeda and love.
Instead of dissecting the theories of whether or not Nagito would have wanted to fuck Junko Enoshima, we at least know that Nagito is meant to also love her, because of how Ultra Despair Girls completes this at the end of the game, but I also don't want to get ahead of myself. There is a contradiction present here, this time one affected by Junko's influence, where a deep love for Junko is also on the back of a deepseated hatred, and Nagito pauses while talking about why he took in Junko's power. There was meant to probably be a hatred-based goal for this, seeing as Nagito saying he hates Junko precedes this, but he puts it to question, and the reaction afterwards is interesting because it's almost like a short circuit. It was said as a principle that the brainwashing self-corrects and adjusts, and while Monokuma also talks about Junko recruiting the Ultimate Despairs one by one, there is this moment from Chapter 0 where Nagito is repeating the same sound over and over, and more interestingly yet, though Izuru remains quiet...
Nagito changes the subject entirely, as if nothing ever happened. However, we were clearly in the middle of something. Why did you take in her power, Nagito? He talks about defeating Junko but then is taken by a confusion that is extreme, only to avoid it entirely. Fake Makoto's explanation about it truthfully being so Junko can live feels more compelling when considering that it serves as the pure opposite of Nagito's stated reasoning of wanting to defeat and kill her, that in the end, that is also another contradiction that he is carrying. And the way that this isn't addressed and the subject is completely changed can appear almost mechanical. While it isn't surefire evidence, it is material that can support the stance that there was an actual brainwashing process that is mechanical, which matches up with the fact that the cast was brainwashed in the anime. Overall, what we can pick up from this moment is that the effects of Junko in Nagito at this point messed with his mind to the point Junko is a significant presence in his life, and he is motivated based on that presence. Additionally, the extremes in his base personality carry over to the madness and exacerbate it to the point he could go as far as to sever his arm for the sake of following through with the idea of becoming one with Junko, the person he hates to the point of love.
I'm not going to end this section on the absolute last line of the scene, but on this part where Nagito is looking out the window:
Which you'd think sounds less exciting and important than Nagito talking about how it's a shame he's parting ways with Izuru and if they'd meet again and how boring Izuru finds him, but while it's fun, I'm making the judgement call that it's best relegated to the document because the juice that I'm wanting to squeeze here is related to lore things about Nagito as a Remnant of Despair, and yes somehow this part is more relevant because it pertains to the knowledge that Nagito had pre-memory wipe. Nagito knows that he's going to Jabberwock Island, potentially because he was told just before going, but he doesn't know exactly what will happen there. This question plagues me almost as much as Junko Enoshima's despair, man. Exactly what do you know, Nagito? To spare image limit that I'll need for the next section, I'm gonna be as if yapping here but it's known that a killing game would be done between the people involved and that the cast went in willingly not for rehabilitation, but to perpetuate this plan of bringing despair to Makoto and co... But the details surrounding those logistics are very elusive, because Nagito doesn't know Junko is gonna be there, and doesn't know that Izuru is going to plant Junko in there for the killing game, but the Remnants of Despair went in to cause despair, since they let themselves be found so they could be put in the program, which implies they kind of knew about this, but then how did they know about this, and how and in what way was this coordinated as they don't know who Izuru is or about Junko's AI--
Anyway there's a lot we can think about when it comes to this part :) And we draw the looking through Chapter 0 section to a close! Which would make you think that we're done with the text wall yay except it turns out!! Not really! Let's talk more despair logistics!
2
Consolidating with the Anime
Danganronpa 3 swoops in with its aptly named Despair arc to put some prequel context into how the Danganronpa 2 cast fell into despair. This method and surrounding context are generally considered controversial, and in the realm of fanon, anything can be what headcanon makes it to be, but from my position of someone wanting to keep to canon compliance, the stance that I have to take, and also for the sake of the anime enjoyers in the audience as it would be unfair to neglect them, is that, well... What's the sport in that? Danganronpa 3 is considered canon, so it takes part in the analysis of canon.
The thing about the anime, though, is that it partakes in a bit of retconning. It's not exactly complete lore-breaking retcon work, because truthfully the anime is paying more attention to the source material than it's usually made out to be (and I could and probably will eventually make a post about this), but it does give way to a bunch of questions. For example, and I want to conserve my images so I'm not gonna go out of my way to screenshot Chiaki dying in this post, but Chiaki's execution put over Ryouta Mitarai's MLG edit filters that cause people to despair (I'd sensibly assume the Student Council Murder Fest video also played somewhere here but it doesn't show so I honestly have no clue how the MLG edits were happening in real time, maybe Junko just made them up on her own for Chiaki's execution?) are the catalyst that brainwashes the cast of Danganronpa 2, which runs counter to Monokuma's explanation that the Ultimate Despairs were recruited one by one due to Junko having taken advantage of their weaknesses as well as due to her boundless charisma shared with leaders throughout History (and Monokuma actually said that by the way, also called Junko Lady Junko?? Junko flexing about herself to amazing levels).
I've seen the justification that Monokuma was just lying in Chapter 6, but I'd like to posit my own theory which is really just my theory it has zero evidence it's just a yap but rather than considering that it's contradictory, I'd look towards the time gap until the end of the Despair arc which spans a significant enough time for Junko to have shown herself. I think that we can maybe picture it as Junko first did the Mitarai brainwash special, and then to keep it that way, unlike the good old Chisa lobotomy special, she then went up to the Ultimate Despairs one by one with their weaknesses reinforcing Junko as the target in this brainwashing. It would consolidate both the hinted at mechanical brainwashing, and the hinted at threat-based brainwashing and in a way kind of sort of consolidate the vibes. I accept alternatives my friends...
But anyway I didn't just make this section to yap archsimp diabolical headcanons. We're going to look at actual lines from the anime, as in, all lines pertaining to the behaviour of brainwashed individuals, as well as scenes that are relevant to this behaviour. The explanations the anime gives for the brainwashing basically come from Junko and Ryouta at different points, Junko's being the earliest one on:
Junko here is about to show an example of brainwashing that doesn't actually correspond to the brainwashing that we'll see even in the context of the anime for the Danganronpa 2 cast, maybe for the sake of flexing. Meet the OG, Reserve Course Guy:
He is being made to kill himself, but he displays the characteristics of 1. being self-aware and not wanting to go through with the action that he is performing 2. not under the belief that he HAS to do it and so being as if physically forced through Junko's order. These points will also contradict Ryouta's own later explanation of his despair brainwashing method so what's up?? But Junko is going to put the dirt back in that hole I artificially dug and balance the universe in a jiffy:
That's right this is just baby brainwashing! The real deal is gonna be when the Mitarai MLG edits get to them!
This is also the precursor to the Chisa lobotomy special, which seems to have occurred because the Mitarai Student Council Murder Fest alone didn't work on her so Mukuro got a bit creative based on Junko's instructions (activating my trust me bro rights over the image limit here but the dialogue really do be like that), which is by the way an extremely interesting thing added to this story because it clearly outlines the existence of resistance to brainwashing to the point that certain people need certain variations for it to work. In other words, within the anime itself, it doesn't work 100% of the time every time. But anyway the gist here is that what Junko is saying is that she is administering a brainwashing more advanced on the Danganronpa 2 cast than on the Reserve Course students, one that makes them willing to go through the hopeless things she wants them to, something that she is defining as worse off. It also outlines a requisite that makes the involved people kill their loved ones of their volition, and sacrifice their own bodies to be in-line with Danganronpa 2's own explanation, so it circles back to the principles that were named in the last section. Phew! Thanks, Junko Enoshima!
Now afterwards is Ryouta's own explanation of the brainwashing, which occurs in the Future arc:
It's also on the brief side, but it gives added context from a different perspective, as Ryouta says that it makes the person who watched it crave despair. It doesn't say anything about how that person may or may not be into Junko in the process, or the mechanics behind fear in Danganronpa 2, but it talks about a potential mechanism that can adjust the people involved to continue to perpetuate despair and feel like they have to, as a way to subconsciously veil this inner desire for despair that is shared with Junko. Alternatively, we can associate this thought process that is equivalent to Junko Enoshima to include Junko's own relationship with herself but there's no immediate guarantee, and what that would have my consolidating mind think is that it could make one lean into the direction of Junko coming in with the fear part afterwards, while Ryouta's video is a sort of mechanic catalyst glue bundling it together. As in, even if one craves despair, can it be guaranteed to center around Junko? If Junko came in and did make it about her, though, it would solve that problem.
Another thing to consider is the case of one Kazuo Tengan, the mastermind behind the killing game in the Future arc. He displays the same characteristics as the advanced brainwashing mentioned before, since he watches the same video Chisa did (but I suppose he didn't need the lobotomy special), and his plan also matches in the principles stated before:
He leaves a video talking about how the leaders of the Future Foundation killing each other would be so hopeless that he couldn't help doing it, which goads Ryouta into using the hope brainwashing video that he'd cooked beforehand, something which we come to understand from Makoto's think thonking to be part of an even bigger plan:
This is Makoto's take on the matter (his take is confirmed as fact on Kazuo's plan itself, but not in the sense of whether Kazuo is or isn't a Remnant of Despair), but one that actually makes it clear that this killing game is adjusting to Kazuo's character: Kazuo is someone who prized hope and acted in its name, so his ultimately hopeless plan is one that is still intended to supposedly bring hope to the world. He was entrusting the world to Ryouta in a way that he could ensure despair would be erase through worldwide brainwashing (he didn't know about the need for the lobotomy special, so let's not rag on him for that). However, it can also be noted that this brainwashing idea is seen in-universe as something bad, at which point the loss of despair is itself a hopeless concept because of the relationship hope and despair have. So, what ends up happening is that Kazuo's plan, even if intended for hope, is hopeless whichever way it goes because he caused a killing game and would have altered people not to feel essential human emotions. I think that in that sense, it represents the despair process in a way that is in-line with Danganronpa 2.
Chisa's brainwashing has its own quirks that can be explored, but it's also specific in that it needed something different from everybody and a lot of the things involved are hints and so it's another layer of extrapolation and the image limit is upon me so I'll unfortunately have to leave this out of this section but curious people please hit me up I would be very willing to answer an ask about Chisa and despair brainwashing-- Ahem! You might be thinking, "Okay, we know a lot about anime brainwashing, but where did Komaeda go?" The point is that through knowing the specifics of how it works to have been taken in by Junko's despair, we can apply this to analysing Nagito as well as to expand with our own ideas of how Nagito would act as a Remnant of Despair. This is why the stated principles can be of importance, so that you aren't necessarily lost on where to begin when coupling Junko despair with Nagito Komaeda past the hintsies in Chapter 0. We have seen that the anime adds further juice, which contributes to the perception of Chapter 0, and consequently the Servant once part 2 rolls around.
But we're not done yet! This is why I split this into 2 parts!
3
Nagito Komaeda and Pre-Junko Despair
This is going to be a short one but a very important point to yap over. By Pre-Junko despair, I of course mean the despair that Nagito feels without any Junko influence involved, which is a very important aspect of the character. In the setting book commentary I showed way above is the idea that extreme hope becomes despair, as well as of an inverted hope. The principle is one where this massive hope is because there is a deep despair involved, and that Nagito's ideals have on their back this already defeated stance, this despair to them. I need to mention this not because this section is gonna cover this portion in detail, but because this is also going to be a massive pin going into part 2, as well as a point of interest when contemplating Nagito in particular. After all, the other characters don't share this pre-existing deep despair in common with Nagito. It can maybe justify why out of the whole cast who are talking about all the cool happy things they're gonna do after graduation, Nagito in the anime echoes a set of lines he'll eventually say as the Servant, too:
The anime translates it differently from Ultra Despair Girls, but it is word for word the same line in Japanese (both translations are accurate in terms of general meaning). The rest of the cast do speak of being Remnants of Despair afterwards, but there is a divide between their desires, and this awareness that they are Remnants of Despair, without it being addressed as a contradiction. We can theorize it to be the brainwashing self-correcting, or go on with other interpretations, but I guess I'm thinking about this because Nagito here is talking about his aspirations without that gleam of hope in his heart to make the world a better place like his other classmates, but about the fact that he can become despair knowing hope will win at the end, placing himself in a supportive and disposable role similarly to how he is in the game, but with the key difference of where he is positioning himself in terms of the dichotomy between hope an despair, which is very important but also maybe hopefully probably a topic better suited for Ultra Despair Girls as the real originator of this line in terms of development timeline.
Anyway, the reason why I talk about this pre-existing despair is because it is spoken of in an official setting, and because it has significance in being highlighted as part of Nagito's character because dichotomy and the complexity of different extremes hinges close to the essence of Nagito Komaeda. Though, to speak about this at greater length, I'm going to need to combine text walls, but to a more specific extent focusing on the matter of Nagito's inferiority complex, I touch on it in the text wall about parallels to Makoto Naegi. I only have like two images left until the image limit that is why the desperation is big right now but the big things I'd want to talk about before finalizing this massive universe-shattering pin is that this disposable element is something I'm talking about because it is paralleled with significance in Nagito's Island Mode ending in the game (also a read of interest in the scope of hope and despair for Nagito), where Nagito finds that hope is in himself and thus no longer wants to throw his life away. This finding of inner hope is indicative of the despair that existed in Nagito to begin with, and the way that it affects how Nagito perceives life is of the significative aspects of the dichotomy for the character, in my personal humble opinion.
Thus, I send off this part with the food for thought pertaining this theming.
4
Conclusion
What do you mean, "A huge chunk of this post isn't about Chapter 0? Where did my Izuru Kamukura go?" In this post, the world revolves around Nagito Komaeda and the honest reason I ever wanted to cover Chapter 0 solo was specifically to talk about Nagito Komaeda and Despair to begin with. Believe it or not, this wall of text is actually condensing the scope of my research, so this is technically the short version comparatively to the text walls I've sent my friend. The point, though, is to introduce and hopefully help with thought about this elusive and much more brief timeline of Nagito, because I often see a lot of confusion surrounding it, as well as depictions in which I feel a desperation to achieve something but no anchor of knowledge to support it as it is naturally and understandably easy to forget Chapter 0 and the details in Ultra Despair Girls/the anime. For people who may like to reference canon content, I would hope that this post can be of service.
Like I said, this is Part 1 since the main point is that I still have to cook up the text wall about the Servant. I had thought of merging the information here with that Servant text wall, but as you can see, this text wall is already pretty extensive, so I believe it's understandable that I ended up splitting them. I don't know what effect this will have on the general engagement of the post, but I will regardless sit back on the expectation of usual and thank the brave souls who got this far. When it comes to Despair!Nagito I am very open available and single (👀) for discussion because this is a hot topic for archsimp research and there are multiple paths you can take with it based off of what we know. Anyway thank youuuuuuuu I hope you have a nice non-despair day!! <33333
In Defense/Analysis of Mahiru and Hiyoko's Relationship
Introduction:
Mahiru and Hiyoko's relationship is a controversial one, no doubt about it. For every fan that finds them adorable, there’s at least one other that thinks they’re a writing abomination (I wish I were exaggerating.) Criticisms vary, but for the purposes of this post, I’ll be focusing on the ones I see most often: “Mahiru never called Hiyoko out on her bullying,” “Mahiru defending Hiyoko in 2-2 was hypocritical” and “Mahiru and Hiyoko's relationship is wasted potential because Hiyoko dies in 2-3.” As can be inferred from the title, this write-up aims to counter these criticisms, but if I’m being honest, it doubles as an attempt to explain why I like Mahiru and Hiyoko’s relationship as much as I do. They’re my favorites in the series bar none, so there’s no guarantee my arguments will be free of bias, but I’ll do my best to consider each point in good faith. Cool? Cool.
Turning a Blind Eye:
Let’s start with the aspect of Mahiru and Hiyoko's relationship that most people point to when calling Mahiru a hypocrite: her ignoring Hiyoko’s bullying.
At a glance, I can’t say this criticism rings false. During my first playthrough, I was just as confused by the class’ reaction (or lack thereof) to Hiyoko’s verbal abuse. Only when I read deeper into her character did it start to add up. Put simply, I believe that Hiyoko’s behavior is handled the way it is for several reasons – however frustrating – and that these reasons are key to understanding her dynamic with Mahiru.
When it comes to Class 77B as a whole, there’s a fairly straightforward explanation: Hiyoko’s behavior is rendered trivial by the killing game. Under life-or-death circumstances, a 4’2” pipsqueak childishly slandering her peers is lucky to register as any concern, let alone an urgent one. This is reinforced by the formulaic nature of her bullying scenes, almost all of which go something like: jab → target’s reaction → another character reroutes the discussion to focus on more pressing issues → jab is forgotten → rinse and repeat. Something similar can be said for Teruteru’s sexual harassment and Kazuichi’s overstepping of Sonia’s boundaries (and on a more inoffensive note, why comic relief moments, courtesy of Ibuki or Gundham, are so fleeting): the threat of the killing game looms large. Only when a threat within the group becomes synonymous with the killing game is it addressed with nearly the same urgency (think Nagito post-chapter 1) – otherwise, it might as well be non-existent.
If insults were the long and short of it, Hiyoko’s conduct would be – for all intents and purposes – harmless. Rude at best and borderline malicious at worst, but ultimately not a big deal. Except that isn’t the case. Why? Because two characters, Mikan and Kazuichi, lack the self-esteem to brush it off, and through their emotional reactions, they become prime targets. In no time, general unpleasantness gives way to full-on bullying, which – needless to say – is a big deal. Compounding this, while the other characters aren’t oblivious to Mikan and Kazuichi’s sensitivity per se, they aren’t actively mindful of it, either. In most scenes where Mikan breaks down pre-trial 3, Hajime’s inner monologue is something along the lines of, “Why is she crying and apologizing so much?” as opposed to, “Oh no, is she okay?” He’s concerned, just not enough to adjust his approach. The same goes for Kazuichi, particularly when his sensitivity causes him to panic. Ironically, by choosing those two as her main targets, Hiyoko may be the only one who “acknowledges” their low self-esteem as anything worth treating them differently over (though that’s obviously not to her credit, since it’s in the most twisted way possible.)
I’ve seen it suggested that simply being childish is what gives Hiyoko a “pass” on the behavior front, and while I don’t think that's wrong, I think it underestimates Hiyoko’s own awareness of how she’s perceived, i.e., as younger – both physically and mentally – than her classmates. She doesn’t act the way she does and then expect her childlike image to compensate for it automatically; she’s in a constant, deliberate (if not always conscious) flip-flop between unapproachable and childish. After all, while she is a paranoid individual who puts forth her assholish personality to avoid forming connections and facing betrayal, she’s also someone who likes to have her cake and eat it, too. In Hiyoko's mind, so long as she can be simultaneously unlikable and unthreatening, she needn't fear going too far and making enemies (instead of just, y’know, not making friends). To that end, she turns to her young appearance as a sort of “back-up” – a way of being avoided without being antagonized. This tactic, hinted at a few times in DR2 as well as other canon material, backfires, however, highlighting its fundamental flaw: sure, no one takes her seriously enough to get mad at her insults, but by the same token, no one takes her seriously in general – not even when she wants them to.
Again, though, that’s the class as a whole. What about Mahiru specifically? From what I've seen, she’s frequently singled out by the fandom as the character most to blame for Hiyoko’s behavior going unchecked, and this can be attributed to a few things:
Her emphasis on manners and decorum.
Her friendship with Hiyoko making her responsible for correcting the latter’s behavior.
The opening scene of 2-2 in which she defends Hiyoko (dubbed “the restaurant scene” by me because it’s set in the restaurant and I’m uncreative.)
The second and third reasons go hand-in-hand, but I have a lot to say about the third, so I'll save it for the next section. The first and second I'll talk about here.
Hypocrisy is defined as not practicing what one preaches. One could argue that Mahiru exhibits hypocrisy when she preaches good manners, but 1) doesn’t call Hiyoko out for being a bully, and 2) ultimately becomes her friend. Does this argument hold water? In my opinion, yes and no. Let me explain.
First, we should establish how Hiyoko’s flip-flopping carries over into her relationship with Mahiru. In a nutshell, Mahiru isn't immune to it; she, like everyone else, dismisses Hiyoko as childish, and rarely (if ever) takes her seriously. This might seem like a nonstarter for their relationship, but counterintuitively, I think it’s what allows them to find common ground. The dichotomy between their most basic values is encapsulated in their profiles, with Mahiru’s stating that she dislikes bad manners, Hiyoko’s that she dislikes being lectured. It doesn’t get more “polar opposites” than that. Despite this, they get along. Why? Well, the answer is complicated, but in short, it’s because – while Mahiru may not be immune to Hiyoko’s flip-flopping – her perception isn’t quite as limited by it as her peers’.
I've seen people describe Hiyoko as “fawned over” by her classmates, but I can’t say I agree. Instances of the others offering Hiyoko comfort and/or sympathy are pretty much exclusive to the second trial (after her name is cleared; before that, they're accusing her left and right) and the scene where they discover her shrine (after Chiaki sheds light on its true purpose; before that, they're rallying to burn it.) In both, I think it's made clear that they're doing it out of a sense of, “Wow, this killing game sucks,” and not, “Wow, Hiyoko is so cute and precious.” That's nothing unique to her; every character who loses a loved one to the killing game is afforded some tenderness afterwards, regardless of what they’re like or whether the blame lays at their feet. Where her Mahiru-related suffering isn't concerned, though, Hiyoko’s classmates more or less tolerate her existence. They go, “Hey, look, there's the rude little girl we for some reason share a grade with,” and move on with their lives.
Of course, it’s no one's responsibility to parent their peer, and Hiyoko's other classmates aren't necessarily wrong to take her at face value. But Mahiru is different; she assumes responsibility for those around her whether they want her to or not. Her desire to bring out the best in others is what allows her to perceive Hiyoko as a child not just in temperament, but in impressionability. In other words, she’s the only one who sees potential in Hiyoko – with a nudge in the right direction – to grow and improve. She showcases this quality in 2-2, when Hiyoko admits the reason behind her smell. While the others are busy asking why a high schooler can’t dress herself, Mahiru is offering to help. She doesn’t slap a Band-Aid on the problem and tie Hiyoko’s kimono for her, either; she teaches her how to do it herself.
If Hiyoko were a plain old bully, all cruelty and no childishness – if there were nothing to bridge the gap between her and Mahiru like, say, the need for a role model – Mahiru would be more inclined to call her out, yes, but the circumstances that bring them together would cease to exist. And if you ask me? This would hurt both their characters in the long run. I’ll get to why in the last section. In the meantime, I’ll answer a relevant question: if Mahiru is the only one generous enough to believe Hiyoko can change for the better, why does she demonstrate this generosity only once – in a situation where Hiyoko is vulnerable rather than hostile, no less? Well, there’s a reason for that, too.
See, Hiyoko’s quick and fervent attachment to Mahiru, starting with the restaurant scene, makes it easy to forget that – all told – their relationship on the island spanned three days. What’s more, the attachment was one-sided; Mahiru was surprised and somewhat exasperated by Hiyoko's clinginess, and while she didn’t outright reject her affections, reciprocating them came very much second to unraveling the secrets of the island – especially once Twilight Syndrome entered the picture (no pun intended). Hell, apart from the restaurant scene (and the bonus event that follows), there are only two other times they interact face-to-face: 1) in an optional scene where Mahiru lets Hiyoko drag her to the supermarket, but warns Hiyoko that she’s busy and can’t spend too much time with her, and 2) during the off-screen meeting we piece together in 2-2’s Closing Argument. Following the restaurant scene (arguably the only one where Mahiru is focused exclusively on Hiyoko), she’s reluctant to help Hiyoko shower and redress right away, considering the upcoming investigation a bigger priority. The morning after, although Hiyoko is still clinging to Mahiru, Mahiru doesn't acknowledge her at any point, focused instead on forcing Nekomaru and Kazuichi to give up Nagito’s location. Starting to notice a pattern?
None of this is to diminish the ultimate impact of Mahiru and Hiyoko’s relationship, of course (I’m working up to that slowly, if you couldn’t tell.) But calling them “friends” only really works from the vantage point of the entire Class 77B saga; in DR2 alone, it’s a bit of a stretch. I refer to them as such in write-ups (half for the sake of brevity, and half because Danganronpa uses “friend” as a generic term for all harmonious relations), but in fact, the only time Mahiru or Hiyoko is described as the other’s friend is in 2-3, when Chiaki asks Hiyoko what Mahiru would say about Fuyuhiko’s seppuku. Chiaki’s observations about her classmates aren't off the mark per se, but they are sometimes lacking in nuance – likely due to her being an AI with a limited framework for understanding people. Us players, on the other hand, can be a bit more discerning: we got one scene where Mahiru was focused on Hiyoko and Hiyoko only, and by the time it was over, her attention had already returned to the killing game. Two days later, she died. I’d be concerned if anyone besides Chiaki called that friendship.
Consider Fuyuhiko for a moment. The fact that Mahiru has basically double the interactions with him that she does with Hiyoko, even prior to the events of case 2, is telling. She’s on positive terms with Hiyoko, whereas she and Fuyuhiko butt heads constantly, so it should be the other way around, right? Nope. Fuyuhiko represents a danger synonymous with the killing game (due to his threats of continuing it, plus refusal to cooperate), and so reining him in is automatically higher on her list of priorities.
And that's the thing: despite being a grade A cunt, Hiyoko is cooperative. Making oneself unapproachable requires being approached to begin with, after all (and, as we soon learn, she’s not as averse to company as she lets on.) She doesn’t create rifts within the group the way Fuyuhiko does pre-chapter 3, much less entertain the idea of the killing game – and while she might not be very useful in investigations, she doesn’t refuse to participate in them (unless, you know, she’s being framed for murder). For all her brashness, Mahiru is quick to ease up on those she sees as working toward a common goal – namely, invalidating the killing game – and cooperation, however basic, is essential to that end. This, coupled with the aforementioned flip-flopping effect, makes it so Hiyoko only shows up on Mahiru’s radar when she starts crying over her kimono in 2-2. Fuyuhiko, meanwhile, shows up the moment he starts threatening to kill someone.
All in all, what I’m getting at is, Mahiru’s role modeling in DR2 isn’t supposed to go beyond the restaurant scene. At no point during the killing game is correcting Hiyoko’s behavior a consistent goal for her, and while I think it's fair to argue that it should've been, I only half-agree – for reasons I'll get to soon. Since I’m not sure I can explain the purpose of Mahiru's guidance in DR2 without repeating myself in the third section, for now, I’ll just highlight what it aims to achieve in other installments.
Granted, most spin-off interactions are one-on-one, meaning only Twilight Syndrome Murder Case and DRS showcase how Mahiru responds to Hiyoko’s bullying in a non-killing game setting. I’d argue that neither disappoints, however: she instructs Hiyoko more than once on how to act in both. What I like about this portrayal is that Mahiru’s gentle approach stays the same; only the urgency with which she addresses Hiyoko’s behavior changes. As far as she's concerned, Hiyoko is still a child in need of teaching, but now – with the stakes that much lower – she’s evidently also a bully to be reined in.
These interactions make Mahiru one of few characters to try to temper Hiyoko’s cruelty at any point in the series. You know who doesn’t ever try, not even outside of the killing game? Most of the DR2 cast, who witness far more frequent and targeted bullying than Mahiru does, simply by virtue of outliving her. This includes:
the game’s protagonist, whose inner monologue consistently acknowledges how terrible Hiyoko’s behavior is, but who never calls it out.
the self-appointed leader of the group, who either ignores Hiyoko’s comments or encourages the ones directed at him.
the Ultimate Team Manager (who also encourages insults thrown his way) and Princess, whose talents center on order and unity.
the Observer AI, whose main objective is to ensure that everyone gets along no matter what.
Of course, how much incentive and/or know-how someone has for stopping a bully is unimportant when a simple “cut it out” from anyone would suffice. At the end of the day, the fact remains that everyone – Mahiru included – turned a blind eye to bullying during the killing game, and there’s no excuse for that. My aim in pointing this out is not to absolve Mahiru of blame, rather, to put into perspective why it may be unfair to saddle her with all, let alone most, of it.
So, at last, with all that out of the way, is Mahiru a hypocrite when it comes to Hiyoko? Well, sure. She’s hypocritical in the sense that she exercises a double standard, i.e., cuts Hiyoko more slack than she does others. But is that double standard exclusive to her? Hardly. If anything, by not dismissing her as a child through and through, Mahiru holds Hiyoko to a higher standard than most of her peers do, and this gets its chance to shine outside of DR2. Moreover, her double standard isn’t a function of favoritism; on the contrary, if Hiyoko took precedence in her mind, their interactions wouldn’t be so few and far between. Calling Hiyoko out isn’t one of her priorities, but neither is being her friend.
In view of this, I think a better question is whether or not Mahiru’s hypocrisy is conscious. Conscious hypocrisy is when someone deliberately acts against their stated values, usually for personal gain or convenience. Unconscious hypocrisy is when someone fails to align their actions with their beliefs, often due to cognitive dissonance or blindspots. If you ask me, the latter seems more apt. Mahiru isn’t a hypocrite because she seeks to protect or enable Hiyoko; she’s a hypocrite because she pigeonholes those around her, deciding her approach based on first impressions – not in a bid to hurt anyone, but to create order from chaos. At any rate, I don’t see the point in singling her out.
Speaking of…
The Restaurant Scene:
The opening scene of 2-2, i.e., Mahiru and Hiyoko’s “bonding” moment, is where I’ve noticed a lot of fans’ ire with their relationship is focused. Mahiru’s defense of Hiyoko here is widely considered hypocritical, and honestly? While I disagree, I don’t blame people for seeing it that way. Even I had to give it some extra thought before it started making sense to me. Here’s why I don’t think it deserves all the flack.
Immediately on entering the restaurant, the brooding atmosphere hits hard. Almost everyone is silently grieving the Imposter and Teruteru, too overwhelmed by the events of the night prior to make conversation. Mahiru is no exception; she struggles to say “good morning.” Hiyoko, meanwhile, is the odd one out. She badmouths Teruteru, claiming he deserved to die for his crime and shouldn't be mourned. How does Mahiru respond? She doesn't. But her silence isn’t for lack of caring – quite the opposite.
See, the thing to understand about Mahiru (and perhaps her fatal flaw) is that, despite her headstrong attitude and emphasis on “doing the right thing,” she doesn’t always know what the right thing is. Her lack of confidence leads her to second-guess herself, and that hesitation becomes the driving force behind her actions. The restaurant scene quietly foreshadows its role in her final confrontation with Fuyuhiko.
Consider the things Mahiru jumps down her peers’ throats about: all relatively “simple” moral dilemmas. Impropriety, reckless decision-making, threats, the like. Then compare that to the dilemma Hiyoko poses here, albeit unintentionally. Do the ends justify the means when it comes to reuniting with family? Is trading the lives of 15 strangers for that of one important person right? Mahiru has no idea; she’s never had to think about it before. Even if she disagrees on principle, who is she to tell this girl she barely knows not to feel relieved that someone who tried to execute her is dead? Only later, after giving it some thought, does she come to terms with this dilemma – and in the meantime, Peko steps in, hinting at her familiarity with topics like execution.
Soon thereafter, Akane identifies Hiyoko as the source of a bad smell, and while most of the comments that follow are born of genuine concern for her hygiene, Gundham and Kazuichi’s are a tad insensitive. Mahiru says as much, and here’s where I think some fans’ readings of the restaurant scene miss the point. Nowhere during this exchange does Mahiru accuse her peers of bullying Hiyoko. The reason she intervenes has everything to do with her flaw regarding moral dilemmas, and – up until her offer to help Hiyoko with her kimono – almost nothing to do with Hiyoko herself. “Is it rude to harp on a sensitive hygiene issue outside of one’s control?” is already a dilemma far simpler than “should a murderer be mourned?" but the added layer of disregarding a lecture and doing the same thing the next morning makes it a no-brainer. Mahiru doesn’t care that Hiyoko is the target of a few obtuse comments; she cares that the guys didn’t listen to her when she schooled them previously – something she makes clear by opening with, “I’ve said it before, but…”
Seeing that Hiyoko is still crying, Mahiru decides to lend a hand. She offers to teach Hiyoko a simple knot, and if the hug that follows is any indication, this touches Hiyoko deeply. Why? Well, the secret lies in her backstory.
A few in-game clues – along with her FTEs and Island Mode – reveal that Hiyoko’s childhood was… less than wholesome. She was forced to leave her parents’ home and move in with her grandmother, who put her to work studying the traditional dance for which the Saionji Clan is famous. Sheltered and isolated, Hiyoko found herself at the mercy of political rivals, who targeted her with cruel “pranks” and made attempts on her life. Her grandmother knew that Hiyoko didn’t want to be the next head of the family, and so, to prevent her traumatized granddaughter from shirking her responsibilities, she spoiled her into total dependence, neglecting to teach her basic life skills – including (but not limited to) dressing herself. This act of manipulation led Hiyoko to develop an inferiority complex around her lack of self-sustainability.
This context puts Hiyoko’s reaction in a whole new light. To anyone else, this would be the bare minimum. But to Hiyoko? It’s a monumental kindness. Rather than taking care of it for her, Mahiru offered to teach her how to take care of it herself. Not only did this instantly earn her Hiyoko’s trust, it gave Hiyoko every reason to see her as a role model – as someone whose example could be followed. This point becomes all the more relevant later.
Honestly, while I understand criticisms of the restaurant scene from a “Mahiru should have also defended Mikan/Kazuichi” standpoint, I can't say I do from a “she shouldn’t have helped Hiyoko” one. I’ve already outlined where her blindspots lie in terms of calling Hiyoko out, but of the characters most attentive to Mikan/Kazuichi otherwise, I’d argue she’s up there (although, again, no one is nearly as mindful of them as they should be.) She’s clearly concerned for Mikan, and while she’s critical of Kazuichi’s cowardice, it's not always “man up” with him; she comes to his defense when Fuyuhiko taunts him for his fear of the Monobeasts. To reiterate, Mahiru defended Hiyoko once in a situation where she would have done the same for anyone. As for assisting Hiyoko…? Frankly, I don't see the issue. If the restaurant scene has anything to say, it's that Hiyoko – while a rotten bully – is still human at the end of the day. The fact that she's a little shit and the fact that she's so helpless she can't get dressed by herself aren’t mutually exclusive. Showing her compassion for the latter isn't giving her free rein to continue being the former – it's just that: compassion. She needed help, and if Mahiru wouldn't give it to her, who would?
More than once throughout her screentime does Mahiru extend compassion to someone who isn’t an unambiguously good person. She genuinely sympathizes with Teruteru’s motive, despite not agreeing with his actions; she brings food to a tied-up Nagito (twice, for that matter), despite the chaos he’d sown the previous chapter; and she commiserates with Fuyuhiko about Natsumi’s murder, despite the things they'd done and the way they'd treated her. In light of this, helping a bully tie her kimono is not only in-character for Mahiru, but arguably her least “extreme” act of compassion. I’d also argue that it pays off – in more ways than one.
Why I Think it Works:
So far, I’ve explained why nothing holds Mahiru and Hiyoko’s relationship back per se, but I’ve yet to explain what pushes it forward. Let me rectify that.
Following the events of the second trial, Hiyoko’s hostility toward her peers increases. The third island investigation has her manipulate Akane into exploring the motel on her behalf, and when Hajime talks to her, not only does she insult him right off the bat, she's openly classist toward him, comparing the rundown building to his house. This behavior is low, even for Hiyoko, and where it came from is no mystery.
See, Mahiru's death sets itself apart from others in the series in that it isn't an immediate incentive for the person closest to her to change. Hiyoko doesn't get the tried and true “character loses a friend and is motivated to better themselves as a result” arc – not straight away – because unlike, say, Sakura and Aoi, Peko and Fuyuhiko or Tenko and Himiko, Mahiru had no last words, no final message of strength or wisdom for Hiyoko. Her murder was a source of conflict and animosity – nothing more, nothing less.
As is established following Teruteru’s execution, Hiyoko has a retribution-oriented mindset – not too far off from Fuyuhiko’s “an eye for an eye.” She doesn't believe in forgiveness or redemption; she holds onto grudges indefinitely; and she maintains that all killers deserve to die themselves. This mindset is yet another symptom of her paranoia – of her belief that she was born with a target on her back. Unlike Fuyuhiko, whose hostility was a mask he wore to compensate for his insecurities, Hiyoko’s is an extension of her worldview; an ingrained trait.
That's why I only half-agree with those who say Mahiru should have reprimanded Hiyoko in DR2. Would it have given Mikan/Kazuichi some peace of mind? Absolutely, and that's reason enough. Would it have changed Hiyoko’s behavior in the long run? Doubtful. A scolding would address the bullying in the moment, but it wouldn’t get to the root of the problem, i.e. the paranoia from which the behavior stems. The only reason Mahiru’s instruction outside of DR2 (as underscored earlier) has any effect is that Hiyoko is already in a safe environment with friends she trusts, far away from her family and their perilous traditions. Though her lizard brain instinct is still to be as nasty as possible, the groundwork is there for her to integrate Mahiru’s guidance and improve over time – groundwork that's virtually non-existent in DR2’s killing game.
But back to 2-3. Once out of the hospital, Fuyuhiko tries to right his wrongs. Waving off his peers’ concern, he introduces himself properly, signaling his desire to become part of the group. Hiyoko is less than receptive. The fact that he took Mahiru from her is only a sliver of the issue; more than that, he's a killer, and killers are irredeemable monsters who targeted her as a child, instilling within her a permanent fear of the world. She sees only the worst in him, no matter the sincerity of his efforts.
Hiyoko’s shrine, while testament to her love for Mahiru, is a kind of… development red herring, as it were. Setting aside her insecurities to perform a task beyond her (forced) field of expertise is a feat, don't get me wrong, but it isn't really a change. She’d never hesitated to convey vulnerability when it came to Mahiru, whether by saying to her face that she loved her or expressing how much she missed her when she was gone. It's only when she confronts Fuyuhiko about Mahiru and Peko’s deaths, and he responds by committing seppuku, that we see dynamics start to shift.
Here, Hiyoko is stunned into silence, and that in itself speaks volumes. She believes strongly that all killers deserve to die, doesn't she? So then why does she go quiet? Why doesn't she take advantage of Fuyuhiko’s instability and get him to finish the job? It’s not because she doesn’t want to die herself; the last trial confirmed beyond a shadow of a doubt that only the person to deliver the killing blow is punished. It's because she realizes something: that’s not what Mahiru would want.
Mahiru had always stood firmly on the side of restoration and mercy. She never wished harm on anyone, no matter what they'd done; she extended compassion to everyone, even killers; she disapproved of cruel and unusual punishment; and she showed particular distaste for acts of revenge. Of course, in keeping with her fatal flaw, she didn't always go about these ideals in the right way. She covered up a murder in a desperate attempt to protect her friend from yakuza “justice,” and she scolded an enraged Fuyuhiko for avenging his sister – both rash decisions that she paid the ultimate price for.
But by the same token, she kept thinking about Teruteru's actions after the restaurant scene and concluded that he didn’t, in fact, deserve to die for his crime. She forced Nekomaru and Kazuichi to disclose Nagito’s location; criticized their extreme methods; and brought Nagito breakfast when nobody else would. She deliberated for days over how best to make amends with Fuyuhiko, even though his threatening letter – coupled with her knowledge of the game’s true ending – would have been more than enough to convince the others to restrain him like Kazuichi wanted. Had she thought more like Hiyoko and dismissed Fuyuhiko as an irredeemable murderer from the get-go, the opportunity to lure her to the beach house would have never existed.
At its core, Hiyoko’s journey in 2-3 is about her integrating Mahiru’s ideals in order to forgive Fuyuhiko – and of all the routes it could have taken, I find this one the most powerful. Hiyoko losing the one person on the island she trusted – hell, having that trust exploited by the ones responsible – could have precluded all progress right then and there. Mahiru's guidance was limited to a single act of compassion that had (seemingly) nothing to do with what she stood for. Being framed for her murder put Hiyoko in a vulnerable position she thought she could only shore up by becoming meaner. If anything, she should have become worse. But because Mahiru’s compassion reached her in a fundamental way – because she valued Mahiru enough to consider her unspoken ideals – she defied the odds and changed anyway. Not because Mahiru told her to, but because she wanted to.
And so, at last, that's why I think the way their relationship was written – with a brief but meaningful role model dynamic, limited intervention on Mahiru's side and childlike admiration on Hiyoko's – worked in both their favors. It allowed Mahiru's impact to carry on past 2-2 (more extensively, anyway, as it would have played into Fuyuhiko’s arc regardless; his desire to make amends using the second chance Peko gave him was no coincidence), and it made it so the sincerity other arcs work hard to convey is there by default with Hiyoko’s – just by virtue of it happening at all. Do I still wish Mahiru called Hiyoko out on her bullying for Mikan and Kazuichi’s sake? Yep. I just wouldn't change anything else.
On that note, it’s also why I can’t get behind the idea that Mahiru “enabled” Hiyoko. An enabler is someone who, well, enables something – usually a behavior – right? Remove the enabler from the equation, and the enabled behavior should become harder to maintain. So… what would become of Hiyoko if she never “befriended” Mahiru? I mean… she'd smell worse. She'd like one fewer person. That’s about it. Not receiving Mahiru’s compassion wouldn’t have done much of anything, but receiving it made a world of difference.
Hell, even if we strip away Mahiru's primary impact on Hiyoko, i.e. prompting her development in 2-3, I’d argue that what we’re left with in 2-2 is still unequivocally positive. Helping Hiyoko shower and tie her kimono were both good things that improved the lives of everyone on the island. Not only did it eliminate the odor problem, it gave Hiyoko a new point of focus: given the opportunity, she spent her time clinging to Mahiru instead of going around bullying others. Keep in mind, Hiyoko doesn't think she needs friends or close contacts (or, at least, she convinces herself that she doesn't). Before Mahiru, she reasoned that, so long as she could learn to be self-sustaining, she’d never have to rely on people who might betray her. She could eschew human connection and ensure her safety forevermore. But then Mahiru earned her trust in one fell swoop, and suddenly she was prioritizing the pursuit of friendship over the prevention of betrayal, if with just one person. That's big.
So there you have it. The first half of Hiyoko’s arc is complete. She’s already well on her way to vanquishing her paranoia – to having her worldview reformed by Mahiru’s ideals and outgrowing the need for a defense mechanism. Nothing can stop her from improving further…
… is what we're led to believe. But then comes Nekomaru’s sacrifice.
Seeing Nekomaru try to save Akane from Monokuma’s bazooka – and get demolished in the process – throws a wrench in Hiyoko’s newfound hope. It convinces her that teamwork, friendship, cooperation? At best, none of it matters. At worst, it's one big death sentence. This random act of self-sacrifice being the reason she relapses is painfully fitting. Hiyoko has always been a person motivated by fear. Fear of vulnerability, fear of forming connections – fear of a sudden, violent death. That doesn’t mean fear has her completely in its grips; she came closer than ever before to conquering it, thanks to Mahiru. But it does mean that, when given reason to believe that something is fatal – that it could lead to betrayal – she's going to disavow it.
There's a certain irony in this takeaway. After all, if anyone should identify with Nekomaru's actions, it's her. She's a firm believer in protecting that which is near and dear. But those values are what make his fate so devastating in her eyes: Mahiru was near and dear, yet as much as she wanted to protect her, she couldn't. That's forgivable; she's weak. Nekomaru, on the other hand, is strong, and while he succeeded in protecting Akane, at what cost? If a force of nature like Nekomaru can be brought to his knees protecting someone, what hope does Hiyoko have of doing the same? How can she possibly protect the people she loves? She can't. Nekomaru is irrefutable proof of that now.
Hiyoko’s relapse, and subsequent death, are why her relationship with Mahiru is so often considered a waste. I may be something of an outlier in that I’ve never minded Hiyoko’s send-off from a writing standpoint; I only dislike its incorporation into the deadly life, which is a bit different. But staying with the topic of this write-up, I’ll focus less on why I wouldn’t consider Hiyoko’s character as a whole wasted, and more on why I wouldn’t consider her relationship with Mahiru so (though the two go hand-in-hand to some degree.)
The morning after the sacrifice, the Despair Disease motive is introduced by Monokuma, and the afflicted students are brought to the hospital. Those remaining (minus Mikan, who’s tending to the patients) convene in the hospital lobby to discuss a plan of action. Hiyoko, paranoid as she is, insists on a quarantine. Chiaki agrees first, and the rest follow. While still not a joy to be around, Hiyoko is noticeably mellowed out in this scene. Thinking back, I can count on one hand the number of times she says something rude. Her nastiest remark by far is: “I want [the patients] to at least have the decency to consider committing suicide before they start bothering us.” Now, don’t get me wrong, this is a hideous thing to say under any circumstances, and there's no excuse for it. It puts a bad taste in my mouth. That said, with how unusually tame the rest of her dialogue is (hell, she refers to Mikan twice without so much as an insult), I don’t think such an extreme comment was included arbitrarily. No – I think it's part of a pattern.
The bulk of Hiyoko’s arc this chapter has adhered to the principle of “actions speak louder than words.” This made sense before, during its positive half, but it makes even more sense now: because she’s afraid to be vulnerable – more so than usual – the story has to find roundabout ways of showing that she isn’t as heartless as she would prefer to be seen.
Exhibit A: she claimed to believe that all killers deserve to die, but given the opportunity to coerce a killer into suicide, she faltered.
Exhibit B: she callously remarked that Fuyuhiko’s injuries were deserved, but given the option to skip his recovery party, she showed up anyway. She tried to pass it off as an interest in the party itself, but nothing before this scene establishes her as a party animal (quite the opposite; she called the Imposter’s party in 2-1 “laaaaame”), making this an obvious bluff. So obvious, in fact, that Hajime “I know Nagito has the Liar Disease, but I’ll take everything he says at face value” Hinata immediately sees through it.
Exhibit C: at the party, she stressed that Fuyuhiko wasn’t forgiven yet – promising that, if push came to shove, he’d bear the brunt of any dangerous situation – but given the chance to make good on this threat, the idea didn’t even cross her mind. Instead, it was Fuyuhiko who rose to the occasion.
And finally, Exhibit D: she claims to wish the Despair Disease patients would kill themselves, but given the option to ditch – to succumb to her paranoia right away – she takes on a de-facto leader role in the plan to keep the patients safe. She doesn’t just come up with the idea; she spearheads the operation, assigning her classmates different roles and commissioning a communication method between hospital and motel. The player can’t progress to the next scene without speaking specifically to her.
So then… how does this all tie back to Mahiru? Well, I like to think about Mahiru’s impact on Hiyoko in terms of before vs. after Nekomaru's sacrifice. Before, it was Mahiru’s belief in restoration that allowed Hiyoko to forgive Fuyuhiko, doing away with some of her paranoia in the process. After, it’s Mahiru’s belief in teamwork that allows Hiyoko to combat the Despair Disease, paranoia notwithstanding. Recall that, in the immediate wake of Nekomaru’s sacrifice, Hiyoko claimed that there was no point in working together – that she didn’t want to be involved in any team efforts. Then why does she collaborate with her peers in this scene? Because she’s making a last-ditch effort to honor Mahiru – to do what Mahiru would have done.
I say “last-ditch," of course, because – whichever way you slice it – the damage is done. Hiyoko can work with her classmates to prevent another killing, but she can’t trust them – can’t get close to them. Mahiru’s ideals are strong, but in the face of overwhelming fear, they’re only enough for that final bow.
We're given the distinct impression that Hiyoko's withdrawal from the group is an act of selfishness – that she's just trying to avoid the Despair Disease. But the disease turns out to be only part of the reason. Flash-forward to the investigation, we learn that, in her isolation, she was carrying out another last-ditch effort, this time to honor Mahiru by bathing and tying her kimono the way she was taught. In Hiyoko’s now empty motel room, Sonia expresses a regret: she didn’t understand what Hiyoko was going through – not really – and so she gave her some advice about a mirror and left her alone. It all comes together from there.
Because of Hiyoko’s takeaway from Nekomaru’s sacrifice, she closed herself off from her peers – both literally and figuratively – and this sharpened the contrast between her arc and Fuyuhiko’s. Nekomaru’s words made Fuyuhiko realize that this new life of his wasn’t a spare; it was precious. Nekomaru’s actions, on the other hand, made Hiyoko realize that her life was a fragile thing, and instead of becoming self-preserving like Fuyuhiko, she became self-isolating. She believed the only way to avoid a meaningless death was to go it alone, but going it alone – that is, isolating herself to the point where no one could help her – became her undoing.
Was it meaningless? From an overarching narrative standpoint, maybe. Her death has no real impact on the rest of the story, and the way it’s tacked onto the case 3 mystery is downright sloppy. But when it comes to her death by itself – to the individual story it tells – boy does it have meaning, and the character most to thank for that is undoubtedly Mahiru. Mahiru's involvement in Hiyoko’s death makes it feel like something built up to, something character-driven, as opposed to a shoehorned, hollow chapter 3 murder. She makes it so Hiyoko’s “wrong place, wrong time” encounter – while unlucky – is anything but random. The reason Hiyoko found herself in that wrong place at the wrong time wasn't bad luck; it was the direct result of her grief, paranoia and lack of self-sustainability.
Mikan didn't do what she did out of spite, didn't hunt Hiyoko down or kidnap her. Hiyoko just happened to walk in on her killing Ibuki. But this, too, was symbolic. Hiyoko went to the music venue in a bid to prove her independence, yes, but it’s only because Mahiru had become so entangled with her idea of independence that this was the case. If becoming independent were Hiyoko's sole motivation, she wouldn’t have found herself struggling with her kimono to begin with. She would have weathered the storm and gone without bathing until the Despair Disease passed; she’d done it before, after all. But she was desperate to honor Mahiru, to prove that Mahiru’s death wasn’t in vain, because – hey, look – she's self-sustaining now. Honoring Mahiru became her way of regaining control – not just over her hygiene, but her life as well.
Speaking of which, bullying Mikan was one of few things – squishing ants included – that served to give Hiyoko the sense of control she so desired. Even when forgiving Mahiru’s killer, one of her most selfless acts, she insulted Mikan to downplay her feelings and eschew vulnerability. And yet, in her last-ditch effort to prove her independence – to prove her control – Mikan, of all people, became an uncontrollable variable. The roles were reversed: Mikan used Hiyoko to regain control over the situation, and Hiyoko was helpless to stop it. I'd take that over a cliché revenge plotline any day.
All in all, if a death symbolic of Hiyoko's lifelong demons is what her journey in 2-3 was building to from the start (which I firmly believe it was), then in order for Mahiru's impact to not be wasted, she just had to remain instrumental to that journey until the very end. In that sense, I’d say she succeeded.
Conclusion:
Well then, it seems we’ve reached the end. Hooray. :)
This took me over a month to complete, and I'm happy with how it came out. I won’t be beating the “obsessed with Mahiru and Hiyoko” allegations anytime soon, of course, but I'm alright with that. Hopefully I've managed to provide a solid defense, as well as justify my obsession appreciation. Like always…
An aspect of 2-2 that I think a lot of Danganronpa fans get wrong is Mahiru’s last words to Fuyuhiko. I’d honestly call hers the most misunderstood last words in the series. Mahiru's role in the second case is often eclipsed by Peko and Fuyuhiko's, and this line encapsulates said role, so I thought I'd try to dispel the misconceptions that surround it. Cool? Cool.
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First things first: my thesis statement (ha). In response to the well-worn criticism that Mahiru’s last words to Fuyuhiko were hypocritical, I’ll grant fans this much: her words were shortsighted and poorly-timed. They weren’t, however, hypocritical.
More often than not when people refer to Mahiru’s last words as hypocritical, they mean that she's condemning Fuyuhiko for avenging his sister, meanwhile her friend who committed an act of revenge received her protection. My issue with this? Sato’s murder of Natsumi wasn’t revenge. The third day of Twilight Syndrome Murder Case (which Mahiru played) has Sato explain in depth why she did what she did. She didn’t confront Natsumi with the intent to kill her; she only wanted to talk at first. But when Natsumi began making threats, she saw red and accidentally knocked her out. Knowing how dire the consequences would be if Natsumi woke up and tattled to her family, Sato killed her and pinned the crime on a rumored pervert. This is further highlighted in the trial (minus the pervert part).
Now, don’t get me wrong, Sato is still to blame here. She shouldn’t have responded to Natsumi’s shit-talking with violence, and she found herself in that position through every fault of her own. The key thing is that it wasn’t revenge; it was desperation. By the time Natsumi lost consciousness, it was Sato who was trying to avoid becoming the target of retributive “justice.”
Recall that the incriminating evidence Mahiru got rid of was a picture of a broken vase. To anyone who wasn’t there the day of the incident, a photo of this nature would prove basically nothing. At most, it would imply that the killer didn’t escape through a window; figuring out what they did do – and by extension who they are – would require having run into Sato in the hall (there likely wasn’t security footage, or else it would have been brought up.) It might arouse suspicion, seeing as there were rumors circulating that Sato was with Natsumi the day the latter was killed, but any resulting claims would be unsubstantiated. Even so, it was the only evidence, and as such, it was of value. To the police, yes, but more importantly (given the identity of the victim), the yakuza.
Mahiru protecting Sato from the police wouldn't make much sense at all. Blind loyalty toward her friends – to the point of helping them escape consequences for their actions – isn’t a trait she showcases in the main game (where the stakes are just as high, if not higher). Sure, there are a few classmates she affords extra care: she sticks up for Peko, she assists Hiyoko when the latter is struggling with her kimono and she’s particularly concerned for Mikan. But her main priority, i.e., unraveling the mysteries of the island, stays consistent. Moreover, in Twilight Syndrome, before she realizes that Sato is the killer, she takes pictures of Natsumi's body in the hopes that they'll be useful to the police (this obviously isn't the smartest move, but it's in-character: Mahiru is someone who tries to do what’s right, her lack of confidence notwithstanding. She feels guilty for agreeing with the other girls not to report Natsumi’s body, and so she figures utilizing her talent is the next best thing. We see her do something similar in 2-1.) “My friend is the culprit; time to destroy the evidence” is a dramatic shift from “I need to help the police find the culprit” – one that doesn’t line up with anything else we know about Mahiru.
A trait she does showcase in the main game? Distaste for cruel and unusual punishment. She criticizes Nekomaru and Kazuichi for hogtying and isolating Nagito, before taking it upon herself to bring him food. Mahiru doesn't object to Nagito being restrained. He instigated a murder, and should be handled accordingly. She objects to the over-the-top, vigilante-style methods used by Nekomaru and Kazuichi to do so. There's a clear parallel to be drawn between this and Twilight Syndrome. If she's so against Nagito – a murderer who isn't her friend – receiving inhumane treatment, then there's no question she'd be against it for Sato, a murderer who is.
It's only reasonable to assume that, when Mahiru realized the truth of the incident, she destroyed the evidence for the same reason Sato committed murder in the first place: she feared that, if it got into yakuza hands, there would be hell to pay. She wasn’t too far off the mark, either. The rumors in mind, all it took for Fuyuhiko to connect the dots was witnessing Sato’s haphazard attempt to discard a copy of the photo (Mahiru needed at least one if she wanted to corner Sato and coax a confession from her; she couldn't have anticipated that Sato would abscond with it.) And even if he didn't, say someone else found it: they might report it to the police, but more likely (given the lack of solid evidence), they would start another, more potent rumor – one that would eventually reach the wrong ears, inciting action. All told, Sato was lucky to have only been killed, as the yakuza are capable of much, much worse.
Mahiru didn’t think what Sato did was right. Far from it; she was shocked and horrified when her suspicions turned out to be true. Furthermore, even outside of the TSMC, she believes her covering for Sato is something to atone for, which automatically requires thinking Sato was wrong. But if it was within her power to throw the mafia off Sato’s trail, she absolutely would, including by immoral means. You don’t have to condone murder to not want your friend to be kidnapped and tortured.
When Mahiru tells Fuyuhiko during their final confrontation that “nobody has the right to judge others for their crimes,” the word “judge” is better understood as “take revenge on.” Think the phrase “playing judge, jury and executioner.” Fuyuhiko judged Sato as deserving of death for her crime, and carried out that judgment by murdering her. That’s what Mahiru is condemning. She’s not dismissing his loss – she acknowledges that his sister’s murder was terrible. She’s saying it didn’t give him the right to become a murderer in turn. This isn’t hypocritical; it’s entirely consistent with her actions in the TSMC. She never sought revenge herself, nor did she enable anyone else’s; she was trying to prevent it.
That said, Mahiru isn’t above reproach (if she were, none of this would be happening to begin with.) Though I maintain she had every right to be angry here, I can appreciate that Fuyuhiko did, too.
Mahiru’s intention going into the beach house was to figure out how to atone for a sin she couldn’t remember committing. Fuyuhiko’s was to kill Mahiru as further revenge for Natsumi. Thing is, Fuyuhiko isn’t a cold-blooded killer. He thinks he's supposed to be, but deep down, he’s conflicted. And so, to cope, he has an out: if Mahiru denies the game's reality, he'll call the whole thing off. He’ll spare her. More than anything, he just wants to believe that none of it happened. His sister isn't dead, and Mahiru didn't protect her killer. But it's too late to hope for that. He'd already accused Mahiru of the cover-up, with the photos as proof, and she’d been taking it seriously ever since. The threatening letter he left her, coupled with her knowledge of the game’s true ending, would have been more than enough to convince the others to restrain him like Kazuichi wanted. Doing so would have (ostensibly) ensured her safety. And yet, from the moment she received the letter, the only thing on her mind was making amends. There was no going back.
These conflicting goals are a recipe for disaster. Fuyuhiko, who had initially compelled Mahiru to face her sin, is now wanting her to deny the events of the game outright. Mahiru, who came for help collecting her thoughts, has instead come face-to-face with the very person she needed to prepare to talk to. Keyword: prepare. Again, the thing to understand about Mahiru is that, despite her headstrong attitude and emphasis on “doing the right thing,” she doesn’t always know what the right thing is. Her lack of confidence leads her to overthink and second-guess herself. Instances of this include:
When Hiyoko berates Teruteru, claiming he deserved to die, Mahiru stays quiet. Only later does she come to terms with Teruteru's actions (main game).
When Monokuma introduces the Twilight Syndrome motive, Mahiru spends the night awake thinking it over (main game).
When Mahiru realized that Sato was the culprit, she waited several days before getting rid of the vase picture, showing that she didn’t take the decision lightly (TSMC).
When Mahiru resolves to make amends with Fuyuhiko, she wrestles with how best to approach the issue, leading Fuyuhiko to think she’s avoiding him (main game).
TSMC!Mahiru finding herself in a situation that tests her moral compass is what makes her involvement in the case compelling. She’s not someone who believes the ends justify the means, yet she’s been thrust into a scenario where they have to – where “the right thing” (not destroying the evidence) and “the wrong thing” (letting Sato suffer and/or die) intersect. No wonder she handles it all so poorly; it’s completely foreign to her.
Now consider this situation. Mahiru has been lured to a secluded area. She never got the chance to talk things through with the other girls, and hasn’t the first clue about how to make amends. Fuyuhiko has proven that he isn’t all bark and no bite, and could actually hurt her if provoked. Hiyoko is nowhere to be found; who’s to say Fuyuhiko hasn’t killed or severely harmed her? It’s a perfect storm. Needless to say, the interaction is already doomed.
Said interaction starts when Mahiru, working on the premise that the game is real, asks Fuyuhiko if he killed Girl E (Sato) – to which he’s furious. But wait… this whole thing started because Fuyuhiko accused her of being an accomplice to his sister's murder, and yet now, when she's asking about what he did in the game, he says he doesn't want to hear it? When she says he shouldn’t have killed Girl E, he replies that nobody cares? How does this sound to Mahiru? A man who thinks he did nothing wrong, refusing to accept responsibility? Only at this point does she get angry.
On the other hand, from Fuyuhiko's perspective, Mahiru has been avoiding him, and so the fact that she’s sidestepping his question is insulting. Even though he’d already decided on revenge, he’s giving her a chance to avoid her fate, simply by saying she doesn’t remember anything from the game or believe that it happened. Yet not only is she doing the opposite of that, the girl who supposedly tried to protect his sister's killer is claiming that he was also wrong. His anger skyrockets.
All in all, it’s easy to understand where both parties were coming from. In Mahiru’s efforts to shield her friend from revenge, she precluded Fuyuhiko from pursuing legal justice for Natsumi. There was almost no chance the authorities would believe him, a member of the criminal underworld, over a seemingly normal high school girl – not without evidence. A picture of a vase was no smoking gun, but it was something, and Mahiru got rid of it. Meanwhile, if Fuyuhiko and the other yakuza hadn’t been out for blood, Mahiru wouldn’t have destroyed the evidence to begin with. They both felt they had no choice but to do what they did – Mahiru to cover things up, Fuyuhiko to kill. Their goals clashed at every turn, right up to the end.
Mahiru messed up – that I won’t deny. She lost her cool and scolded Fuyuhiko while he was interrogating her about his sister. She shouldn't have done that – not because she didn't have a point, but because it was the wrong time to make it. Chances are, if she’d kept treating the game as real, she still would have angered him enough to convince Peko to step in, but openly condemning his actions more or less sealed her fate. It’s ironic how her go-to method of yelling at people to do better became her undoing. Keep in mind, though, it was Fuyuhiko who put her in that position to begin with. He backed her into a corner, deprived her of the chance to think things through and expected her to simply… read his mind and say what he wanted her to say so that he could find an excuse not to kill her. That’s why I don’t think it’s fair to claim that she brought her murder on herself.
Moreover, her last words in and of themselves weren’t off-target. Fuyuhiko spends nearly the rest of the game atoning for rushing into revenge. He realizes that Mahiru was right: “an eye for an eye” is a flawed credo, and it’s through this that he earns the forgiveness of all his classmates, even Hiyoko. Losing Peko might have been what springboarded his development, but Mahiru’s contribution is no small thing. Hell, the scenario of Mahiru's death echoes some of Goodbye Despair’s most important themes, namely restoration over retribution and being punished for a forgotten sin. The mindset that certain people deserve to die for their crimes is what causes much of the students' misery, and the opposite philosophy is ultimately what saves them.
Nagito Komaeda and True Hope
also known as Nagito Komaeda and Chapters 4 and 5
The long-awaited...! Kind of. Chapters 4 and 5 of Danganronpa 2 are rich with Nagito Komaeda content such that not even two text walls could address it in full, so I decided to just focus on what I personally find the most juicy:
How did we get here? What could have Nagito Komaeda been thinking? What was his deal here anyway? What about all the lingering mysteries from Chapter 4? How does hope develop to this point?
It should go without saying I wasn't the only person posing these questions at that point of the game. There are questions here that even to this day have no real concrete answer. I generally operate under the belief that no one should feel dumb for not knowing Nagito Komaeda: his is a character founded on contradiction as per official source, and the game presents him as elusive and mysterious throughout. This is why, for a topic as important as this one, I'm not here to tell you about the "obvious" truths of Nagito's character arc here. I'm here so we can all think about Nagito, what happened to him from Chapters 4 to 5, and about the role of Ultimate Hope in all of this.
The Ultimate H-Word, dare we even say--
1
Nagito Komaeda and the Ultimate H-Word
Let's rewind away from the end of Chapter 5, and establish our baseline one chapter prior, by the end of Chapter 4:
It's the first time in the game Nagito mentions the Ultimate H-Word, but that's not the only reason I'm putting the spotlight on the end of Chapter 4. These scenes are also important because Nagito does not have a single classmate in his vicinity. The first scene has Nagito alone in his own cottage, meaning he has no need to lie or pretend. It can be reasonably surmised Nagito's words inside his cottage are all true, unless you'd like to make space for a theory where Nagito is deceiving himself. While a choice one can make, in the interesting of diving deeper into the content presented, I'm going to have to align us into the idea that generically, Nagito is probably saying things that to him are true, and just his own thoughts.
The next scene, meanwhile, features Monokuma, someone who Nagito perceives to already be aware of the whole truth. If we notice, the lines he tells to Monokuma aren't very different from what he said to himself: he can't rely on everyone else, so he has to do it... And then, he completes this by saying he could become Ultimate Hope. We see Nagito trying to see if he can deceive Monokuma, but it fails, leading Nagito to reveal this content and continue onwards with deductions he's made about the truth. I'd want the credibility of Nagito at this scene to be pondered here, too: what is the practical benefit to tricking Monokuma into the idea that he wants to become Ultimate Hope? Either which way, Nagito is already planning on sacrificing his life, and this angle won't net him the identity of the traitor, one of the key things Nagito was trying to extract from Monokuma. In other words, I also want to posit the likelihood that we can trust Nagito's words in this scene pre-Chapter 5.
Which might all sound a little pedantic here, but the reason I feel like this has to be established is because Nagito doesn't tell the cast the full truth post-Final Dead Room, as evidenced by the fact he lied about only having found information about Hajime. Personally, I don't dabble in easily saying that x or y words were a lie, since the moment we throw that ball out there, it'll be hard to pick it back up: we could start saying everything could be a lie, the same way it could turn out you and I aren't real oh no-- However, because there is indeed deception at play in these chapters, as well as multiple instances which are vague and elusive, there's the chance someone could say, "Archsimp, can we even trust Nagito wanted to become Ultimate Hope?" And now, for the fanfiction we write whether physically or in our heads, we can fill the blanks however we want. In the end, I'm just a lil guy. But basically, if I want to offer something that can constitute as food for thought for other people, I'd have to give out something more or less credible, which is why I'm covering my bases for this question and introducing the framework this way.
Thus, Ultimate Hope is real here, and we're going a step further thinking about this premise. After all, next to this mention of the Ultimate H-Word are two sets of h-words which normally plague the Komaeda mind: absolute hope and true hope, which are actually synonyms so they mean the same thing. Nagito equates the status of Ultimate Hope with that of true hope, and it's no secret that true hope is exactly the thing that Nagito has been looking for this entire time:
I included an extension of this scene in Chapter 4 that's pre-class trial in case it could be argued that Nagito here changed his mind from the Nagitos before him that I just gave out as an example. We can see here that Nagito is saying that this killing game is not actually one of hope, and that's why it's wrong. Not that true hope is not attainable necessarily. Throughout the game, Nagito is observing and trying to be in support of this true hope, to the point the individuals at play could all be sacrificed for it, regardless of who they are and how Nagito feels about them. This by itself might be countered by the idea that Nagito in that very scene is wondering why he cares about Hajime, but that to me is the point I'm trying to make: he doesn't go out of his way to make an exception for Hajime in his head when picking sides in the investigation, meaning that if someone else were true hope and they were the killer for example, Hajime would have to die. Now, this doesn't mean you can't say that maybe Nagito deep down wishes that this doesn't happen, or that he'd want Hajime to be this hope, or that because of that he'd actually try to stop that outcome in practice etc, those would be interesting explorations of the character on their own. The point I'm trying to make isn't one that throws our poor Hajime under the bus and stops you from steamy komahina action. I'm just trying to emphasize to you how important hope is to Nagito here. It's important enough that Nagito would sacrifice his life and the lives of others, and this is not only natural but obvious to him if for the sake of hope.
With this in mind, if Nagito has been seeking this hope throughout the game, telling Monokuma that he could become this hope is probably going to be an important and serious matter. Nagito in his cottage talked about resolving this situation "for the sake of hope", and he talks about how his core way of thinking hasn't changed to Monokuma. The h-word remains active in Nagito's mind post-Final Dead Room, and has always been from the start of the game, making this another reason why we could posit it likely that Nagito is telling the truth in the scenes from the end of Chapter 4. So, Nagito would be actually gunning to become true hope himself, by becoming Ultimate Hope. This isn't the only point of interest to that baseline, however, or else I wouldn't have screenshot practically all his lines from it and cry at the time it took.
Let's synthethise the findings we can have with a handy-dandy bullet point list:
"Yep... I'm definitely lucky! I never expected to obtain so many valuable things from a simple game of Russian Roulette... Thanks to that... I was able to learn the identity of our true enemy. And before everyone else, too!"/"Am I? I actually think I'm very lucky. Wouldn't you say that coming across this much despair is a rather rare opportunity?" - Nagito is attributing the elements that got him to the position to become Ultimate Hope to luck. The fact that he's seeing this much despair is lucky. Thus, luck is a factor in these circumstances.
"Regardless, I was saved. Things would get complicated if they found out."/"There's no way I can let this run loose... I'll be the one who stops this once and for all. Even if it costs me my life..."/"I can't rely on anyone in this island... That's why I have to be the one who does it..." - Everybody is else markedly distanced from the possibility of taking this very title. No one else can be trusted with this, except Nagito.
"No matter what situation I find myself in, my core way of thinking will never change... In order to create absolute hope that shines brightly, stepladders such as myself and despair exist..."/"I don't know who you're talking about, but if someone as worthless as me reminds you of some other person... They must be extremely unlucky." - Nagito's self-esteem is still poor in this scene, when he's already set on possibly becoming Ultimate Hope. He's still worthless, different from the Ultimates, something he also goes out of his way to say in Chapter 4 pre-class trial, which is after he finds out the truth about everyone (evoking trust me bro rights to conserve image limit).
"You know me well... Is what I'd like to say but, unfortunately, I haven't learned that yet."/"If that's the case, I might be able to cooperate somewhat too. However... in exchange, I want to know who the traitor is." - Nagito pointedly has no clue who the traitor is at this point, meaning that the reliance on his luck and the general logic of his murder in Chapter 5 have a high degree of credibility, since it's to the point he offers to cooperate with Monokuma for the information.
All of this, plus the part about Ultimate Hope that I just broke down! Oh, and the cute lil Makoto parallel inserted in, which has the contradiction-backed answer marking Makoto as extremely unlucky (but from Nagito's Free Time Events, we can find that Nagito considers bad luck and good luck to go hand in hand, adding nuance to this response that can be interpreted a number of different ways). We can take these as the pins we'll be removing throughout this post, so that we can put further thought into Nagito's mindset about his own demise, since they're going to connect to content from Chapters 4 to 5. Speaking of which...
2
Nagito Komaeda and Chapters 4 and 5
It technically sounds intuitive to approach this topic chronologically, listing each scene that's relevant since the Final Dead Room to work our way into Nagito's final message. However, it ultimately wouldn't anchor us any faster to the details I wanted to highlight, because they appear insignificant on first appearance, but to me contribute to putting more thought into Nagito at this point of the story. After learning various truths from the files Nagito found in the Final Dead Room, he lashes out at Hajime while revealing that he's a Reserve Course student, and also has a shift in behaviour which makes him ill-humored even at what used to be the targets of his admiration. I think that this intuitively leads people to the conclusion that Nagito hates them for being Remnants of Despair, and that this hatred had him lose all respect for the people in the cast. While I can't deny this possibility, I would like to offer leeway based on the language Nagito uses while speaking about his classmates post-Final Dead Room.
It's not just in the name of trying to make it seem like Nagito actually liked everyone all along, to clarify. One of the interesting questions lingering in my mind is why Nagito believed he could only trust himself with the task of eliminating despair from the island, why he had the right to Ultimate Hope. If he hated his classmates and excommunicated them for their standing as Remnants of Despair, wouldn't he be included considering he is part of them? I think the interpretation that this is actually the reason why Nagito sacrifices his life to be valid enough, since it has his death as a consequence of being a Remnant of Despair, but I personally wonder about the language Nagito uses to describe himself as Ultimate Hope. Through it, he would stop being a stepladder... Nagito doesn't express hatred for himself as part of the enemy he's trying to face throughout the game, and his final message closes with the wish for him to be praised, so is his sacrifice a form of punishment? An inevitability, or a choice? Basically, there are roads we can take here, especially when taking into account what Nagito says. He can't rely on anyone else, so he has to do it... Is it really because his classmates are Remnants of Despair, considering he's no different?
For the longest time, I've paid attention to the instances Nagito's had of talking down on his classmates in the game (barring specific insults during the investigation, which apply to Nagito's personal evaluation of the people involved that are surfacing due to his poor mood like telling Akane to not get in the way if she can't use her head) and there's one pattern I notice:
That Nagito's disillusionment still presumes in his classmates the potential they have as Ultimates. Their lacking willpower puts their talent to waste, but that still means they have talent. Nagito points at the lack of forethought from his peers, at the fact that they remain stagnant, but these are still supposed to be the Symbols of Hope. Rather, that's what Nagito says before the class trial, too:
What he denies is the fact that the killing game was one of hope, but not necessarily the part where he and Hajime are just stepladders. After all, even in Chapter 5...
He's assigning this standing to Hajime, and like we saw before, he referred to himself as a stepladder to Monokuma. In other words, I find myself wondering if to Nagito, his peers still have the potential to accomplish something in theory, that they are still Ultimates to him, and if so... Other instances of Nagito speaking become intriguing to think about. Such as Chapter 5, at the food stalls when Nagito was saying they were just running around in circles, he gets told by Sonia that she doesn't like the current him, with others chipping in to say that they don't like Nagito right now either. He reacts like:
And if Hajime tries to hang out with him on his free time in Chapter 5, his reactions are also interesting:
(taking from my free time event document because I can)
The first time Hajime can invite Nagito out, he uses language we're more used to: he refers to himself as inferior, for Hajime not to worry about someone like him and to just go have fun with everybody instead, saying he's happy Hajime asked. It's a much softer rejection this first time around, where from his mood shift in Chapter 4, Nagito didn't really have to refer to himself as if not someone worthy of being hung out with by Hajime, who he knows is not actually superior to him in any way. There are generically two paths we can take here: either Nagito is just being polite to try not to rouse any particular suspicion, or that reaction had some tinge of truth to it. This affects how we look at the second reaction, where Nagito pushes Hajime away full stop, bringing up Fuyuhiko from early in the game as if to say that while he's not quite that bad, he still isn't going to be friends anymore, likely because he has other things to do at this point in the game. We could say it's that his polite front slipped the second time around, to shoo Hajime away.
However, the game can't assume that you decided to get Hajime going up to Nagito that first time, so we can't actually reasonably assume a sequence here and have to take this second rejection as standalone within the context of the situation. Nagito pushes Hajime away, when he could have otherwise been nicer about it like last time. Would it be that he didn't have the time to afford speaking as usual? But he already was disgruntled from Chapter 4. Is it really that this second time around, he's showing how he really feels, or the other way around? Or, is it that he truthfully feels both ways? Nagito suggests Hajime spend his time with the others. It could be fully just to drive Hajime away, but we could also have the leeway to wonder if that also means it's what Nagito thinks Hajime would be happier doing in his ignorance. The food stall scene carries significance when pursuing this angle: Nagito puts distance between himself and the others, because they can't understand the burden of truth he carries.
He has no reason to pretend to be sad off the top of my head, because it doesn't benefit the practical purpose for his visit in the food stalls, which related to asking about the traitor. If it's sad, though, what does that mean for his classmates? That he would still like not to be hated? But they're the enemy, right? Why does he pity their ignorance? In other words, are they in their ignorance pitiable even though they are also the despair that he's pitting against the traitor? Or, basically, is their state where they don't know they're with despair something that Nagito is keenly aware of, and because of that what he hates isn't them themselves, but the despair that occurs because of their presence? This killing game continues so long as everybody is there, because it's just perpetuating the despair for the survivor of the Killing School Life to drop by. Thus, does Nagito have to necessarily personally hate the people around him? These are the questions I'd want you to take away here, because the caveat about interpretating a complete grudge is that, if you try to simulate Nagito with this take, the result would lean towards more bitter and hateful sentences, where these moments of melancholy may not pop to mind. Not to say that it isn't possible to interpret it that way, but more so that it requires caution on the nuance. I think that there's the potential for Nagito's feelings about everyone to be complex in nature, going past solely how he feels about despair rampant in Jabberwock Island. The fact that he's aiming to kill them all isn't exactly news in hindsight, when he was prepared for them all to die if the killer was true hope to begin with.
Rather, this initiative in Chapter 5 comes from the separation between the traitor, the one likely to be true hope, and everybody else, the Remnants of Despair who got in for the sole purpose of drawing out the survivor from the Killing School Life, meaning that the events are solely for the sake of despair. So, there's a question that can be posed here when wondering exactly how hateful he was of everyone when putting his plan in place? Is the malice Hajime refers to in Chapter 5 a new thing to begin with? Hajime detected something like that since Chapter 2, which is why the topic of how everyone's lives were all liable to sacrifice for the sake of hope is a sufficiently important detail to think about when it comes to his mindset in Chapter 5. Does his plan, his dedication to it truly reveal a hatred for his peers, or more so the will to erase despair and have true hope win? Maybe, in that process, everybody else are just the contributions to the refinement of this hope, the necessary casualties in the process, and that would in some way explain the pity he seems to express in Chapter 5. There's other interesting dialogue throughout:
These scenes have multiple implications, for which multiple roads can be taken, but I'm going to first approach the theme of belief that is pushed in Chapter 5, and how Nagito is expressing something that Chiaki thought was his faith in everyone, that they would move as he thought they would, because his plan hinged on belief to work. Nagito believed in the time he spent with everyone, and I think this can be taken not just in the positive, or not just in the negative, but maybe even in both at the same time, in what can be potentially part of the malice that looms in the shadows Hajime sees with his vibe check. This belief regardless has the potential to be complex, especially in the implications of what he's said prior. Nagito goads everyone under the assumption that they are considered Symbols of Hope (the English line looks like that, but the original line doesn't go specific with Nagito saying that it makes him laugh that he thought they were Symbols of Hope, more so that this title is laughable when applied to the implication that their limit was at that particular moment, which to me doesn't necessarily carry the same past nuance), finding their resignation to run counter to the hope that they're meant to hold towards finding the traitor. Maybe that's the attitude Nagito thought would get them to move, so we can argue that's the manipulation taking place, but at the same time, his peers don't have a history of reacting necessarily well to this, and even at his grumpiest, Nagito referred to them as Symbols of Hope... It could be either or, but it's interesting to consider how Nagito still speaks to them as if they were different, having singled out Hajime as someone who can only be fodder for them. Is there a need to pretend on this matter? After all, Nagito talks out loud about becoming Ultimate Hope in their presence at the start of Chapter 5, in that food stall scene:
In other words, we can say that Nagito doesn't particularly need to use this language that specifically categorizes his peers as different and superior to him by nature, especially when he's become disillusioned by them and is planning on becoming hope himself. What does it mean? It's up to your headcanon to truly find out... On my end, I have two other points that I'd want to highlight from all the text I showed above. Nagito talks about how this concern with the traitor not immediately revealing themself could if anything make hope shine brighter, while talking about the final fight between hope and despair... This would be understood as the fight between the traitor and everyone else, especially since it's what Nagito is saying outright, something that gains significance with the hindsight of knowing what happens and is revealed later. Or is it?
I think that it would be the most intuitive interpretation, thus making it valid, but the nature of despair becomes muddled with the nuance I'm haunting everyone's brains with. I think that even with it, we could say that hope is the traitor and despair everyone else, just that it involves the clarification of everyone else representing that despair but what I want to say most of all here is that this fight between the two is apparently also being refined through the ordeal that Nagito is seemingly putting everyone through. Nagito expresses also not only a belief for everyone and his luck, but also hope. He talks about how absolute hope can't lose, and leaves talking about how believing in hope will open the path, a statement that doesn't just apply to himself, but everyone else. Isn't that a little strange? Why do these Remnants of Despair have to believe in hope? Or is it that he's trying to communicate with the traitor, having to also refer to everyone else in the process?
Basically, there's a chance, from the way Nagito talks about everyone, that not only does he still think he's worthless compared to them even if innately or as a lingering emotion, but also that he pities them and may not necessarily resent them, while still classifying them as the real enemy. In the process, we run into another point I was on about previously, the part about why Nagito feels he can't rely on anyone else. If he doesn't actually hate everyone, and the truth he bears truly is a burden, why IS he choosing to take up this burden himself? There's no real answer to this, especially because even if we assume that Nagito doesn't rely on them because they're Remnants of Despair, it would put to question why he can rely on himself just because he knows the truth. Of course, it doesn't have to necessarily make sense: Nagito's character can be beholden to contradiction, so we can also just chalk it up to Nagito's contradictory thought process that conveniently makes him the only guy able to eliminate despair. I am always an advocate for Nagito contradiction, but I also find myself thinking if the reason Nagito finds he can't rely on everyone is because of how he is disillusioned by them: he incorporates the existence of their talent but criticizes an element that's present in his own definition of hope, which is their willpower. I'm wondering if maybe Nagito believed that if he told this truth to everyone, they wouldn't back down and continue to perpetuate the killing game, or that they wouldn't be willing to sacrifice themselves for hope. That they might lack that resolve, or not be in the position to exercise their roles if they knew this truth, because they don't love hope like he does, and they'd fallen to despair before. We can take his reaction to Mikan in Chapter 3 while contemplating this, because Nagito had discarded her for her having fallen to despair from the Despair Disease. We could say that maybe, everyone was similarly discarded as able to fall into despair, so he wanted to settle the matter before any of this could occur to all parties.
Or, from this occurrence that makes everyone out to be a Remnant of Despair, Nagito could be looking at the matter more broadly, that those capable of hope would be able to turn to despair, but that the reveal of this truth would lead to a situation where, if they rejected his idea of the traitor as hope, he wouldn't be able to get back his advantage. Or, we could say that his rejection of other people learning the truth could be this subconscious desire to be the only one to accomplish becoming Ultimate Hope, something that if people talented like them could access, it would make them accomplish this, while Nagito had the chance to do so and finally be praised and recognized. The tldr is that as you can see, we have a myriad of possible reasons, of which multiple can involve a complex stream of emotions. It also means that Nagito's potentially complex feelings about his peers and his distrust in them could co-exist, and if anything contribute to this distrust. Nagito felt them unable to move forward from their current point, and took advantage of that to guarantee he could eliminate despair from the island. He saw them as hesitant to open the path before them in the class trial of Chapter 4, so that hesitation could linger in Nagito's mind when thinking about this situation, that it would mean they wouldn't accept the elimination of despair and that it would inconvenience his strategically good position to do so, one that makes him able to become true hope.
This brings me to another point to tie all of this together, which relates to the way Nagito's self-esteem appears to be the same despite the fact that he's trying to become true hope. It makes one wonder, right? Rather, I've noted Nagito being interpreted to find the Ultimates as below him for being on the side of despair, and his rise to Ultimate Hope hinging on the idea that he could become that when the Ultimates are despair anyway, but he's still worthless, still "someone like him" and so is that simple habit in his words? Or because he still holds that idea? But if so, why is he so confident in the idea that he could become Ultimate Hope? I have an idea, personally. When I say personally, I of course mean it's a headcanon. I have no supporting evidence, and it could be completely wrong. Still, I'm gonna say it, in the interest of offering food for thought, but I'd want Nagito's luck to have the spotlight in this topic.
Nagito talks about how lucky it was that he got all those files from the Final Dead Room. How lucky it was that there's this much despair in one place, and that since he can't rely on everyone else, he has to do it and thought it, he can become Ultimate Hope. It makes me think about what got him in a position to be able to plan this out in the first place. To Nagito, does it have anything to do with his personal ability? No... It relates to his talent, something that's outside of his actual powers. He's in a position to eliminate despair from the island because of his Ultimate Luck, something which has never erased Nagito from his standing as an unremarkable person. What do I mean?
(from his first free time event)
(from his fourth free time event)
Nagito doesn't consider accomplishments of his luck as something amazing that he does, but just being lucky. It's not a power he believes he can fully control, and if we consider that while he can influence and believe in it, it didn't always lead him to the outcome he expected (considering Byakuya died in his stead in Chapter 1), we can draw a conclusion where Nagito's position as being able to execute this plan to become Ultimate Hope comes purely as a result of his luck, and doesn't say anything about himself personally. Thus, it doesn't make him feel any better about himself, but it doesn't have to when he can be valued by others in the end, and that's part of the lucky opportunity given to him, the chance to become true hope after the complete despair of the situation. At least, it explains to me why it results still in the sacrifice of his life, in a lingering lack of self-esteem when he ends up telling people to praise him, build a bronze statue of him, etc... But there's another reason I think about the matter from this angle.
It's because of Island Mode.
3
Nagito Komaeda and the Absolute H-Word
I know most people didn't play Island Mode and don't worry, there is no universe in which I'd judge you for this, but I'm also not gonna deny the sauce that Island Mode packs for supplementing characterization, which is why I'd want you to look at this passage from Nagito's ending:
(also taken from my Island Mode document because I can and also the mistranslations involved sorry friends)
From here is when Nagito asks to be friends with Hajime, an outcome that doesn't come to pass in the base game, but what I want to focus on is on Hajime's line, and the fact that it's this conclusion that transitions us to that request from Nagito for Hajime to be his friend. Hajime talks about how, because Nagito now knows hope is inside him all along, that he can't just say he'll die or kill someone that easily. It counters Nagito's willingness to sacrifice himself and others directly as the conclusion to this ending, implying that this hope which is inside of Nagito rather than external is one that makes Nagito treasure life, and would make him no longer throw it away. In other words, that with hope in his heart, and the confidence to ask someone to become his friend, he wouldn't be able to pull a stunt quite like the one in Chapter 5. The latter revolves exactly around the sacrifice of Nagito's own life for a hope outside of him, a position he got into due to nothing he would attribute to inner ability, as well as the sacrifice of everyone else, and the implication we can take from Island Mode is that it was because he had no hope within. I think that Hajime referring to Nagito's willingness for sacrifice would be important since this is something important in the scope of how Nagito treats hope throughout the base game, in that he could stake both his life and other people's to see it come to fruition, in his search for a hope in his reach. Island Mode puts hope as something inner, and that it's by having it that he can have enough self-worth to take a step forward and ask to be friends with Hajime.
Island Mode is also generally the content from the game that touches on what hope could be in its ending, a line which comes from Nagito:
Unlike the flashy strength Nagito envisioned for the hope that he was trying to find, hope is defined in the ending of Island Mode as something easy and simple, with an effect that is subtle but enough to have one keep going. It's something that Nagito in the base game never ended up realizing, and Nagito instead seeks to become Ultimate Hope, praised by others for that achievement after death, which ultimately means he's not alive to feel fulfilled in that manner. It cuts off his life, for which he didn't have hope for to begin with, is the angle I'm trying to introduce to you here to lay the groundwork for the parallel I believe may exist between Nagito's ending in Island Mode and his fate in the game proper. Following this thread, we can deduce Nagito's mindset to be one where he still has that inferiority complex, the desire to be special while believing he is worthless, and that this fate indicates that he could not treasure life because he has no hope for it, and that his mindset was one of clinging to the external hope that could carry him to the closest thing, and continue to put his faith in his luck til the very end. In other words, we can paint Nagito's characterization based on the concept that's been flashing us throughout the whole game: the absolute h-word.
Which is why we're taking a detour from Chapters 4 and 5 to address Island Mode. Now, I can't actually tell you what absolute hope truly is or was in the end, because this is left open-ended for it to be interpreted as one sees fit, but the possibility I'm positing is going to touch on this concept, because the interpretation in my mind is one where absolute hope wasn't. As in, that Nagito sought it out, thinking it would come from a clash between hopes, borne of sacrifice... But that absolute hope isn't real, and hope is instead something that comes from self-worth, confidence in oneself because that forges the path forward. We could also say that this means the real absolute hope was all the friends we made along the way, but I think that the friends we made along the way is more so the means for which self-worth can be attained, and that self-worth gains relevance here when thinking about the climax of Danganronpa 2, where Hajime pushed past his own feelings of inferiority because he could forge the future with his own two hands. Island Mode talks about hope as something that makes life better off than otherwise, and it gives Nagito the initiative to ask for Hajime to become his friend, something that implies the expectation for the future in that relationship. In other words, by viewing hope as connecting with self-worth and tying it together with the themes of Chapter 6, as well as how self-worth has a part to play in Danganronpa 2, we can end up seeing absolute hope as having a part to play in having been the representation of the despair Nagito already had for his own prospects, whereas true hope was all the self-esteem we had along the way that we can use to look forward to the future. Or at least, so goes essentially my complete speculation on this matter. That Nagito's character in Chapters 4 to 5 is defined by the feelings of inferiority and his search for hope that shaped him to begin with, and he died seeking to be special based off of the hopeless that comes with those two factors. And that this ties directly to the way Nagito does not treasure life in the base game, leading him to pit everyone against each other while taking his life in the process.
From here, we can try to think about the other mysteries in Chapters 4 to 5, understanding that Nagito's character resolves within itself, in the context of the base game as a tragedy, one of elusive, contradictory and complex feelings. This doesn't mean that this framework comes up with all the objective answers instantly, but more so that it means we don't have to depend upon anything other than Nagito's own character for them, and can continue to see the events as open to interpretation as they are. We have for example, the 'What is he trying to determine?' conundrum from Chapter 4:
The original line here actually has no verb to it (evoking trust me bro rights to conserve image limit), so the translation assumed that from context, it would be the verb to say. This is because it's assuming that since the last line is "Is he talking about the traitor?" then the next line would be, "If so, why is he (talking about determining the traitor) all of a sudden?" However, from the context, I'm inclined to think that Hajime would be thinking, "If so, why is he (trying to determine the traitor like this) all of a sudden?" Because Nagito would be talking about determining as part of his reasoning to begin with, whereas Hajime wouldn't know why determining the traitor would come up in the middle of the class trial. Anyway, this means that we have the easy road of assuming that Nagito is trying to determine the traitor through the trial, but this poses a few questions. After all, how would figuring out the murderer lead to figuring out the traitor? Nagito does talk afterwards about how he didn't figure out who the traitor is, but it isn't imminently intuitive that his standard would be how smart that traitor is. After the culprit is determined, Nagito talks about how the class trial and killing game are just an opening act, something Junko will echo in Chapter 6, but is this because he fails to determine the traitor, or because he has no further business with the class trial to begin with?
To begin with, what happens from the class trial? The culprit is deduced, but otherwise, everyone dies. Nagito expresses not wanting to die alongside everyone, but wants them to figure the answers for themselves to determine something. This passage pops to mind:
Nagito here is presenting these mysteries as solvable by Symbols of Hope, taunting Hajime who he seems to believe not to be the traitor, and it makes me wonder... Nagito seemed to want a battle between hope and despair to happen. He brought the items from the funhouse since the class trial, meaning he had this clash in mind. For it to happen, though, the people involved would have to offer each other a sufficiently okay challenge without him to lead people anywhere, and this could maybe be determined through the outcome of the class trial, where people's deductive prowess comes into play. Since everybody could solve the case with Gundham, Nagito deems this passed to go onto his next plan since he doesn't know who the traitor is, where the traitor would be pit against everyone else, whoever they are. Or, it could just be that Nagito believed the traitor would slip up while talking about the funhouse. Who knows?
I talk about this hypothesis with determining everyone's mettle because it can relate directly to how Nagito doesn't know who the traitor is, so he would have to assume that anyone there excepting maybe Hajime would get through Chapter 5 with his support. However, I don't feel like this would be the only hypothesis, and just comes from me reverse engineering what the meaning behind this determining process is. To me, when I think about the determining conundrum, I start thinking about this passage from Hajime in Chapter 5:
Hajime says he's overthinking, probably because he feels like Nagito isn't truly hoping for everyone to be united in this way in the process of overcoming despair, but I find his words compelling. This was inserted at the end of the first half of Chapter 5's class trial, referencing absolute hope, and it reminded me of how Nagito believed absolute hope would come from the clash between two hopes. Nagito wanted hope to shine from this incident, where there would be a fight between hope and despair, the traitor and everyone else... But since the everyone else side don't even know they're on the side of that despair, what they're fighting for is technically their hopes, right? Then, by having to go up against the traitor, they would be clashing against each other inevitably, meaning that this resulted in a clash of hopes of Nagito's making... I find myself wondering if that clash hopes matters here for Nagito's reasoning, and why he was trying to determine something in Chapter 4. While it could potentially explain this aside... It could also just be me making stuff up because the aside could also just be to reference that actually this unity between everyone is the closest thing to absolute hope we can get and that conversely, Nagito didn't get that. However, I find that maybe, it could mean that this clash and the way everyone is united to solve this mystery, only to find out its result, would be part of the process of going up against despair, and result in absolute hope.
Or, I could just be making stuff up and it's truly the opposite way around, with Hajime just doing a lil philosophizing to the audience. It could truly be either or, but I presented this hypothesis not only because it ties back to hope, but because it will also come around to tie in to a pertinent question, relating to for some reason, the OVA. I don't have the screenshot of the quote, because I believe it might not have been correctly translated, but the premise to begin with is that Nagito knows about the Neo World Program, and when he wakes up, he talks about how he believed that everyone would be able to reach the truth, which is something strange to imply if Nagito was only banking on the traitor winning. I say this because the original line was translated as deepest stratum, but I don't know how Nagito would be aware of these strata in his mind from Danganronpa 2, and "deepest statrum" and "truth" sound the same, which is why I'm assuming it would probably be truth... But anyway, we're in this pickle where the implication from Nagito is not one of disappointment that his plan to get the traitor to win foiled, but that he finds it expected that Hajime and the others won. Why is that? I'd say as an answer that it makes these lines from his final message become further food for thought:
In Chapter 5, Nagito talked about how hope would never lose, but in his final message, he easily admits to the possibility of his hope losing out, while saying he'll talk so that both sides understand. Why would he do that, when his plan hinged on faith? He supposedly believed in hope wholeheartedly, but he's accounting now for it losing out, and despair winning? And if so, why would he benefit them by talking in a way they understand, anyway? Because he's a good sport? We can think about it that way, but then the OVA and it's quirks get quirkier, whereas if we jump into the just as speculation-based hell of the potential that Nagito saw both sides as able to praise him for his contributions to hope, that the hope which lost in the scenario of this final message would be more so the one that was banking on the traitor winning, when in fact the other side won, but that this still means a path to hope would be built, as the hope of the other side was stronger. It's something I've thought about before, one that recontextualizes to me his final words, because he says that he believes his actions will contribute to hope, and if so, for him to be praised and called Ultimate Hope. I had the thought that maybe, if he's talking about it considering both sides, and if one side was one that would shun this wish entirely, would that have still been the same wording?
It really could've been, but putting it to perspective, his dialogue in Chapter 5 becomes even more elusive, because we can wonder if the hope he's talking about is the hope of the traitor, or hope itself. That when he says that hope will never lose, he meant it even if hypothetically the traitor were to lose. Then, it would fit into the way he puts faith in hope, but I think that in all fairness, we can't make true conclusive statements about how much is referring to this idea, and exactly what Nagito means with the truth that he believed everyone would reach, as well as how much of that line isn't a retcon from the OVA where the game might not have followed through with this necessarily. However, there's reason to think that it might have, so we can extrapolate that maybe, Nagito was setting up a clash between hopes, and that either hope would resolve the despair in the island, but his hope was that by the traitor winning, the despair that comes in the form of everyone's existence as Remnants of Despair would be erased and in that sense he would have been responsible for ridding the island of despair. But that in the event that isn't the case, he still contributed to hope, because he gave everyone the tools to deduce the truth. Or something like that? Maybe? It'll depend on your mood and fanfiction of the day...
Whichever way it is, we can put meaning into his actions based on his search for hope, as well as in his desire to become Ultimate Hope and erase despair, where there could be a tangible stake in his personal victory besides one where hope naturally always has the last laugh. While the OVA can set a path of ambiguity like that, it's still an implication, where Danganronpa 2 has the road of everyone else as despair, and the facts on the table make that remain viable. In the end, Chapters 4 and 5 set up this downfall of Nagito, and the nuances of this mindset are an important part of thinking about it, making up as a result the scope of my post on these two chapters.
4
Conclusion
As you can see, most of the content I presented boiled down to speculation and headcanon, as the presented facts don't have necessarily clear conclusions to take. There's a reason these parts can be debated in their purpose, the same way any piece of literature has specific gaps that the readership will interpret as they see fit. This isn't an indication necessarily of us missing something, but of the natural construction of a narrative where a character like Nagito, who is designed to be mysterious, would leave mysteries in his wake.
I normally like to be conservative with the personal speculation I bring to the table. This is because I don't want to induce people into the idea that my speculation is fact, when I'm just saying my interpretation of events. I go over these things when they might be interesting to think about, but if I were tackling Chapters 4 and 5 normally, I would have ommitted most of these things from the post, aggregating more facts into highlights about the chapters, but in so doing, I realized something. I realized that in the process, I wouldn't be able to lay the groundwork to introduce possibility just from giving out these facts. I would leave people to intuitively fall into the idea that the blanks to be filled could maybe only be filled with Hajime shapes, because of the popular theory centering Nagito's taking of his own life on his love for Hajime.
Which is, naturally, speculation like any other. However, this speculation at times takes a dangerous quality, where it becomes assumed fact to the point that supposedly, Nagito's character can only be contemplated with this speculation in mind, and that thus Nagito's love for Hajime and his core actions in the base game are inseparable because of the way they are tied intrinsically to Chapters 4 and 5, despite the fact that there is no conclusive evidence that makes this assumed fact into actual fact to begin with. I've been asked before, "If not x, what else would it be?" Which changed my mindset, because if truly only x is repeated, maybe it conditions the mind to believe that indeed, x must be the most likely. Because of this, I feel the need to present the y in this equation, so that everyone can know exactly how not clear, obvious or clear-cut this topic is. The answer is not necessarily x, because we don't actually know the full answers. Nagito Komaeda is not that simple, and less so enough that you have to be looked down on for not imminently nodding along to x.
Though, outside of this mindset, I always wanted to talk about the nuances of the implications in Nagito's behaviour to begin with, because I find this to be the standout matter for Chapters 4 and 5. I think that introducing that nuance can be important, because it would aid in letting others think on it and hopefully encourage variety. I've had this cooking for long, and even thought it might need two parts, but I'll have to be real and say that the highlights reel compilation would probably be better as just the separate posts with their own highlights so I can properly address them. Because this post was voted for through a poll, my earnest hope is that the content was worth the wait and can answer expectations when talking about Chapters 4 and 5, in that I don't just want to explain the obvious but to introduce nerd minutia that insane people like me have archived to begin with. Chapters 4 and 5 in this sense aren't completely over since I'd have more to yap about, but in the format of a big text wall, this would be the main and closest thing. Thank youuuu for your time and I hope that you all have a wonderful day because I am awake super late ohohoho--
really it’s such wasted potential to not have any canon interactions between izuru and non/post-despair nagito who has learned about izuru’s nature. my thesis is nagito would hate izuru sooo much (which is ship fuel for Me) mainly because izuru stands against what nagito has come to believe about talent and inherent worth plus his involvement in spreading despair despite being made for hope. flashback to nagito’s posthumous message where he talks about wanting to become the main character/the ultimate hope vs. his coping subconscious in 2.5. izuru is both everything and nothing like the person nagito wants to be. it’ll probably be somewhat fun for izuru to have a guy who consistently tries to evoke his past reserve course identity too…
you ever think about how (despair era) izuru and post-despair nagito’s dynamic would be like. nagito who has learned of izuru’s origins and is on his way to healing and probably in a positive-looking situationship with hajime. i personally to imagine nagito feels Really conflicted about izuru as izuru reminds him of his past deeds and embodies the dark side of hope among other reasons, yet unable to stop caring for him for how izuru relates to hajime. izuru who lacks relevant context couldn’t wholly see nagito like how he sees and treats servant and is somewhat fascinated (question mark) by this change in character… post-canon crack fic concept where hajime and izuru swap place for whatever reason and nagito has to be izuru’s keeper to prevent him from freaking anyone on the island out LMFAO
i personally think one aspect of togiri that appeals to me the most is how byakuya essentially views kyoko as an equal to him and the (gesture) inherent sense of trust brought up by that feeling. i like to imagine how it manifests in the little things ie byakuya being generally picky but would be more willing to try things if kyoko recommends it. commoner sweets? “if you insist… but only one piece.” cheap coffee? “it can’t be that good, but sure, if you insist.” learning how to cook? he would stare at her like she’s grown a second head at first but the concept of Kirigiri Knowing Things I Don’t annoys him and so.
So any thoughts of well, the Blade Lineage itself so far
theory-wise, not much aside from we are likely going to see aeng-du and bamboo-hatted kim as semi-important NPCs to one of the greater projects limbus company as a video game was intended to be: a way to explore the city as a living setting. distortion detective is the only gap in my project moon lore/worldbuilding knowledge, but i will be correcting that Soon and perhaps will have more theories later.
but thoughts in general? quite a lot.
general disclaimer that i am not intimately familiar with korea's history, though i know portions of the last 100 years. but in summation: i have always adored project moon's insistence of making the works of yi sang be a focal point of inspiration for the setting, themes, characters, and messages as a whole, and the role of the blade lineage in the city itself exemplifies this very well.
the influence of The Wings in particular on the project moon series is from the ground up – not just thematically, but even in the verbiage of the setting.
The Wings is an evocative, heartbreaking critique of japanese colonialism in the form of a narrative of a man in an abusive relationship with a woman who controls every aspect of his life to the point where he has lost all sense of self, all the while she is committing infidelity and secretly drugging him. he loses his autonomy and identity, expresses both need and hatred of the meager monetary aid she entertains him with, and laments his isolation and total alienation from a world that should be natural to him as it is to all others.
the oppressive mundanity, isolation, and repetition in The Wings is something Lobotomy Corporation (the game) parallels extremely well. kim ji-hoon has said that his intention with the game was to, in essence, "simulate a lobotomy" (paraphrasing) for the players – not unlike the conditioning the quasi-self-insert narrator of yi sang's The Wings goes through.
but let me skip ahead to yi sang and ryōshū.
yi sang and ryōshū, similar to yi sang and faust, are alike in passion: they are both artists. yi sang, much like his counterpart in The Wings, sees art in all things existing as they are. meanwhile, ryōshū, much like her counterpart in Hell Screen, believes that art is something intentionally created and manipulated by the hands of few brilliant individuals.
from canto V, an example of their butting heads over the nature of art (not the only example, but one that comes to mind):
yi sang shutting down a dialogue this succinctly (while partially motivated by the gravity of their situation) is a rare thing for him. he makes the choice to not engage ryōshū with her perception, presented with authority in spite of his inherent disagreement with her in a philosophical sense. while whether or not she is correct depends on whether or not the whale classifies as a living creature, to yi sang it simply does not matter – the patterns of the veil are a curiosity and a point of observation, and the nature of it as itself is worthy enough for him when it isn't for her. the same is true of the narrator of The Wings and his wife; she does not see the beauty he does, and she seeks to control him and his perception of the world.
what this does is essentially frame ryōshū as the antithesis of yi sang in this regard. and with the nature of the setting as a whole being based around The Wings, this implies that ryōshū as of now is in total opposition to the themes, messages, and purposes of what the series is about. she is inherently a conflict just by existing.
this then brings me to ryōshū and her engagement with aeng-du.
what the conflict between the blade lineage and the kurokumo clan does is bring everything i said above into the front and center, leaving no room for questioning the intent of the conflict that exists between ryōshū, yi sang, and even the series as a whole. when aeng-du defends herself and her right to exist as herself with her people from the perceived threat ryōshū's very existence in proximity gives her, ryōshū's immediate response is to confirm why aeng-du is defensive. not exactly the reason, but close enough.
and of course, it is only after this near-murder that yi sang is the one to provide her comfort – by knowing their shared home, by sharing the pain of loss to the hands of outside forces, and in feeling alone and on the defensive. the blade lineage shares yi sang's complete and total isolation, both in the game and with his counterpart in The Wings.
essentially, i love that the blade lineage has taken one of my favorite aspects of project moon's worldbuilding philosophy and has all but confirmed it as unsubtly as possible. i think it was done very well and i hope we will continue to see more exploration of it in similar ways. the blade lineage should most definitely make a return.
That was one hell of a part 2 good lordy. I have SO many thoughts but I cannot put all into words for now, here's some though.
Dante is being real quiet [sus especially after how much they talked in canto 5, plus how they seemed seemed realise that they need to actually take part in helping the sinners proper] and they are [seemingly] the only sinner one could connect to Carmen [literally all of the chirstian symbolism, the way the static on her appearances was similar to the static Dante has seen on AFD and their overheating, the fact she seemed to speak through them at that point]. I am probably just reading into things but after the whiplash of how much they usually talk - internally and externally - I am very much getting a sinking feeling something's wrong.
Basements are evil. Hong Lu is rich enough to have a basement in his houses. He will probably have an evil basement. I would bet money on this, especially if its a sort of 'other world' as alluded to in his book (that I have not read. It does mention a Land of Illusion if i recall, however, so possibly a door to that). Bonus points if it ends up being upside down or smth.
Would the 'chaotic' part of the golden bough ( of 'em at least) have any sorta relation to why we Heath's E.G.O seemed unstable? I know most of the other distortions/E.G.O awakenings happened near boughs - which connects to the theory that they are directly related to Carmen and thus allow her to talk to people more easily like with the monolith - either Dante's fragment or a full one, but the specific mention of a chaotic one could mean it's responsible for Bodysack seeming to have corroded, as one can see the warning labels typical of a corroding E.G.O.
Given Faust's change in behaviour - namely stuttering for what I believe to be the first time - regarding the conversations around the 'creation of humans' I do believe this was how she was made. Yi Sang did say he made the tech used within the pods in that very basement, and the fact that he was the first recruit could mean that the Faust who approached him is not the same Faust on the bus. The idea of her being a metric fucktonna ID's layered on top of each other firstly explains the Council of Fausts theory, wherein she is able to talk to other versions of herself, in this case because that's what she is, as well as what Dante says about her looking somewhere else before answering. Mirrors alter perception, so her looking at a different Faust for answers could explain that as well. Work's too with her base E.G.O, wherein three shadows seem to point out an answer on her wall of notes. She has all the knowledge, she just needs her other selves to point it out when needed - thus her evasive attitude when it comes to answers, she needs time to get it pointed out.
On that note, do you think her attitude in Selva Obscura is a reflection of og!Faust, but she drops the act later on once Dante has fully forgotten their past? She doesn't really get that jokey after that.
Like how the middle seemed to be the antithesis of Ishmael in C5 part 2, the ring seems to be Heath's. The middle represented how Ishy as a person was mostly incompatibility with 'the bit', in the form of a situation that is remarkably silly on paper but ended up in near total annihilation of the group. The ring may represent how some may look for deeper meanings in all things from arts to people, which clashes wickedly against Heathcliff's more straightforward approach when it comes to handling situations. The dredges of the ring are those parts of him that overthink and he solves the problem as simply as he's been solving many others.
Cathy in a Coffin reminds me of when Carmen was content enough to haunt the narrative from her Bucket. Nothing else to say here except for the fact it's funny.
But back to Carmen, and more particularly 'fate' regarding distortions. The theme of denying of what 'should've happened' is a decently big theme of limbus - from the rewinding death to even subverting what happens from any literary source material - so if they end up going 'Carmen no Carming' to her later on, defying someone who seems to be as much of a god-like entity as the Head in some ways, I would not be surprised if we either get a visit from Iori, one of Demian's lot or another Lo9 member - x or current. Additionally, defying fate may just be what brings back Heathcliff from the edge, keeping Cathy alive in this mirror world but presumably in a weird weirdass way. My guess is that she distorts and gets nabbed by LCD - but I also just wanna see Moses so.
Also hey what happened to the seven strikes of lightning. Are they gonna be in Heath's distortion dungeon or something? No clue.
And I think that's it. Gonna stare at a wall for a while now methinks
OK SO FIRST UP THERE ARE A LOT OF THINGS HERE SO I'LL TRY TO ANSWER TO THESE CONCISELY
Now that you mentioned it, it was always very strange how Faust is Number 2 despite being there first and her mugshot having already been in uniform, so now that you mention her different attitude in the Prologue I honestly see a lot to what you are bringing up here. It was always a personal theory of mine that Faust's real "Mephistopheles" was Sang Yi or Yi Sang somehow, since Sang Yi still to seems to be a rather...odd entity that doesn't correspond to any particular mirror world and is implied by Yi Sang to have some degree of omniscience (and there's also that marked part in the dungeon where he "mysteriously dissapeared" for some time with no explanation), so she might have gotten Yi Sang to do the procedure that would give her this infinite knowledge, specially since even Yi Sang himself emphasizes on her having been "gifted" with omniscience, I Highly doubt he's being figurative here, even more with her EGO's background being the shadows of multiple people.
In regards to Dante not speaking I think it's simply because of the difference in situation, unlike Ishmael who was very clearly out of control due to her own mindset, Heathcliff is being driven over the edge by circumstance -- and some quite insane circumstances at that, so it might be why they could not intervene, but hopefully they'll step up when we get to the next part, specially since we'll be dealing with Distorted Heathcliff....and also, it's very interesting that we actually got Heathcliff's POV on how it felt to Distort. It might be Dante's connection to Carmen and The Sinners aligning at once.
And also, Catherine is def a Carmen expy (I actually did my own analysis some time ago in similarities Kromer, Ahab and Dongbaek had with Carmen too but this one is the most. Insanely explicit similarity) and the fact that she speaks to "Welcome Heathcliff home" at the very end in her own voice alongside Carmen...I can't help but feel she might have been planning to get Heathcliff to Distort all along as part of her personal plan that they can be together happy in Hell. The Overclocking symptoms seem to have been an indicator of Heathcliff approaching Distortion, I really like how...drastically different it feels from the awakened Crow's Eye View and Snagharpoon, and just in general how they completely threw the formula that had been built up until now out of the window (heh)
Either way, thanks for shooting me a message! It's always fun to get to hear other people's observations and theories and share my own two cents along the way
Edit: I forgor but frankly if Hong Lu has yet another Creepy Rich Person basement I think I'll bash my head against the wall. The real moral of Limbus is that basements are bad and evil. Sorry there are just So many good observations here and I'm a bit scatterbrained at times shfhh
In regards to the "fate" thing, I feel like that will be a big part of dealing with Heathcliff next part, Limbus Company as a game and story is built on the reimaginings or "what ifs" or classics, and we've seen it with Yi Sang that his ending was changed in the end; the original Yi Sang died and the protagonist of The Wings commits suicide, but he rejected all of that, while Ishmael was on her path to repeat the cycle of the story of Moby Dick but thanks to Dante and Heathcliff she rejected that as well. And the title of "Clear All Cathy" really establishes from the first moment the goal this time. We'll have to wait another week to see how it rolls.
As someone reading a lot of the limbus company books, how do you rank the ones you've read so far? are any not really worth checking out?
oh boy! uh, i don't have negative opinions on any of them, frankly! i think they're all worth checking out. i would say my FAVORITES have been moby dick and dream of the red chamber (two of the longest!) but close behind is demian, the wings, and hell screen. like i said before i haven't read faust or crime and punishment yet.
like i say in the don quixote episode, which is full of spoilers so you probably haven't listened to it -- don quixote is probably the least NECESSARY read out of all the books? just because you can get the gist of what don quixote is about. just like... read the translator's introduction. but you SHOULD read don quixote, it's really good and fun.
i think you MUST read the wings even though it's not even that relevant to canto 4 in many ways. i think you MUST read metamorphosis if only because people don't actually understand what metamorphosis is about. i think you MUST read l'etranger for the same reasons.
here's my slapdash ranking of the ones i've read with some reasons to read tacked on: (not faust or crime and punishment)
Moby Dick - experiment in the nature of fiction. you want to hear this man infodump about whales.
Dream of the Red Chamber - it's a commitment but you'll never regret it. everything in my life is now a reference to hong lou meng. it's such a delight i miss it now that its 120 chapters are over
Demian - a seminal work of queer literature by a man who was certainly cishet. the theological reading is incredible.
Hell Screen - genuinely haunting. the plot summary gets a lot across, but it's a can't-miss to actually understand how it gets under your skin.
The Wings - you know it, you love it. get obsessed with the collected works of modernist poet yi sang. i love him.
Wuthering Heights - give it a chance! you're not supposed to like anyone in it. also, no adaptation of wuthering heights (except in limbus company) is any good, so you have to read it. it's genuinely brilliant.
Don Quixote de la Mancha - it's so funny. like, for real, cervantes is such a delightful author and you have no idea how until you read it. it has the same meta delights as moby dick for real.
The Metamorphosis - franz kafka speaks to our time in many ways. people really cheap out from reading this one because they just think about funny bug, but it has a real atmosphere to it. understand some themes today
The Odyssey - im sorry it's been a while since i've read this one. BUT. it's a timeless classic. pick up an annotated edition and read about how homer isn't a real guy!
The Stranger - lowest on this list not because i dislike it but because i just have the least opinions about it. but don't be satisfied with the sparknotes -- go read it. also, sue me, i like camus!
see now i'm wondering if his ring ID is the kind of person yi sang could have become if he didn't join limbus company. like he internalizes the thinking pattern of "i'm a fool and not worth a damn and everything i do only hurts people" and expresses that self-loathing via his art. eats drywall
OK SO. I TOOK SOME TIME TO ANSWER THIS ONE BECAUSE I WAS TRYING TO GET HIM FOR MYSELF. I don't even really play the game anymore and keep up with the story via YouTube but. Y'know just to prove a point basically and Virtual Yi Sang Collectionism while I find myself with too much free time again so you might have gotten to see it by yourself by now but. Still.
Actually looking into this with his story and all of his dialogue they really did just give him an actual Bad End ID like Nclair, Ahabmael and G Corp Gregor (with some variation of Erlking joining eventually? but I have no idea how that will work taking in count the plot aspect) since Spicebush Yi Sang doesn't really Qualify as one of those and is even framed as being empowering in a way for him taking in count its release was timed so it could be used in the Farmwatch fight instead of waiting for the end of the Season like the others. I believed that W Corp Yi Sang was this spiritually; since it depicts him at his lowest point imaginable following on the track he was on already and the themes of Canto IV perfectly though not related to it, but now Ring Yi Sang has shown us a much more connected, and much darker potential path for him. So I'll take this post as my chance to analyze this:
In regards to his self-loathing it's very interesting that he actually seems to feel a sense of pride not seen in any of his other IDs, talking about "what he deserves" and disregarding everything that doesn't cause him a reaction. He now uses creation itself as a way to fill the emptiness inside of him, while in the main story, Yi Sang's resolution was that his impulse to create was his way of connecting with others.
You can see that in these lines, where he has completely disregarded everything about life and other people, pretty much all of his dialogue revolves around wanting to create and he has only interest in what can inspire him, to the point he nonchalantly kills civilians for failing to make him feel that way.
I feel like this is even expressed in the Sins for this ID compared to base Yi Sang, the set-up is the exact same; S1 Gloom and S3 Sloth. However, the one that changes is S2. Regular Yi Sang has S2 Envy while Ring Yi Sang has S2 Lust. Added this to Ring Yi Sang's passives even being fueled by Lust as well while base Yi Sang's are fueled by Gloom. I take this as a representation that he has taken this Lust, an obsessive desire, as being what will drive him forward throwing away all the self-loathing and regret, with many of his lines calling the past meaningless.
Now I'll tackle his story and do a rundown on it while giving my observation, as it ellaborates into this and what his mindset is (and frankly, it's utterly fantastic). First of all, we get a unique, dissonant track that so far seems to have never been used in any other instance in the game to my knowledge.
Yi Sang's approach to his scientist position is very...unique, because he does so as an artist rather than more proper scientific people like for example Faust, Dongrang, Aseah and Gubo. People who simply want practical application and results, means to an end. Dongbaek seems to be the only person who shares this approach he has which is why their bond is treated as unique compared to the other League of Nine members. At his core, what fascinated Yi Sang so much about technology and sciences was simply the euphoria of discovery itself, finding new things. Which is tackled immediately when Ring Yi Sang's story begins as I am showing here.
With science, you never truly "create" anything, you go through right and wrong answers until finding something that works or causes some effect, he even says so himself in Canto IV. And he goes on to criticize his prior fascination with technology with this particular aspect in mind. Even more shockingly is that he calls the League of Nine's conferences a "waste of time" now, each of their creations predictable which could tie into him being a one-of-a-kind genius, which is also somewhat tackled in Dongrang's observation log. To him, everything else his friends made was child's play.
So instead, he looks towards what made him so fascinated with The Mirror in the first place, echoing this particular point he makes during his log for Dongbaek, both of them are driven to reach something abstract and inconcievable and ended up using technology as their path to that vague destination that can only be described in poetry.
And finally, he completely foresakes his past at the League. He even he believes he finally has his wings but calls them fabricated, and there is something obviously wrong with the entire thing on multiple levels. They are fabricated wings because he was guided to this conclusion by the hand of another, rather than the introspection throughout IV. His chapter title is "The Unchanging", and it's the only chapter where the trait assigned in the title to the focus Sinner is a positive; him staying true to himself and his ideals was the key, but he needed to actually move past his apathy and actually grasp them, but here he has completely changed beyond recognition. Turned arrogant, callous and utterly irrational, discarding all of his self-loathing by divorciating himself from the self that he hates, yet the Sloth—the apathy remains, instead of moving past it, fighting it back with his Lust in an endless cycle of dopamin chases while growing numb to everything else and even destroying it if it fails to satisfy that Lust so that it will, as shown as he kills failing students to take delight in their shock and agony.
But at the same time it frames that portrait of the League in his background art a completely different meaning. It is most likely that this portrait is a mockery of all of them, regarding the past and the life he lived until now including his past self with the same condescencion he does examinees that fail to impress him. Specially when you take in count how his own face is much more well-painted than the childish erratic strokes he assigns to the other, making them look ridiculous. But at the same time, Yeonsim is there under them, but flipped to its underside, he still held onto it but as far as we know it might be completely broken and only keeps it as part of his insulting work going by another of his idle chatter lines.
This dark inversion of Yi Sang's journey even before Limbus and Canto IV is also emphasized by Pointillism in particular being chosen as the subject for this ID, this was first pointed out by this Korean Twitter user (and fellow irl Yi Sang enjoyer going by the layout) in the original announcement for this ID:
Of course, this theme compliments Yi Sang's resolution in IV pretty well. He loved the League and grew to love Limbus because they were his resting place. I can't find any translation of Jochunjeommyo however, so I can only rely on summaries and posts put through machine translation. But from what I can summarize, the story is about an artist who can't find a place to breathe and simply exist due to the materialistic, capitalistic nature of the city he finds himself in, which fits pretty neatly with Yi Sang's story as a whole.
I'd also like to point out how a less overtly unhinged variation of this kind of development is shown in his Dieci ID story (which I wanted to make a post on for a while because it really feels like it was preliminary to this and not enough people talk about how messed up Dieci Yi Sang actually is) and how he comes to adopt a mentality just like Ryoshu's, with her already being linked to The Fingers and knowing about their workings personally to the point she might have been affiliated at some point though we cannot confirm, however I will instead link to this post by my friend on the topic since they already did a dissection on how Yi Sang and Ryoshu act as ideological foils and they pretty much said it better than I could: https://www.tumblr.com/ishcliff/743271628518129664/so-any-thoughts-of-well-the-blade-lineage-itself?source=share
So that's all I've got for now! Honestly I am so over the moon with this ID and the potential implications going forward as you can imagine.
My current theory is that the Sinners are numbered in order of desirability for the LCB. Yi Sang being first makes sense - their plan would not work without his mirror technology, and Faust comes next with her leading the Sinners and Dante.
It's likely that Ryoshu was bought for her connections to the fingers, Meursault for his widespread capabilities + something we don't know, Hong Lu's wealth and eye. Conversely, the likes of Sinclair, Outis and Gregor seem to have either stumbled into the LCB by chance or as an "oh well, maybe they'll end up being a good fit".
I definitely feel that the first six are irreplaceable, as opposed to the likes of Ishmael and Rodya who have LCCB IDs. Those IDs indicate the possibility of them being known by the LCB, but not chosen to be a Sinner. (I think that's lowkey horrible for Rodya who wants to be special so bad, lol)
From here, Murder on the WARP express spoilers:
Don Quixote being a vampire-creature makes a hell of a lot of sense. "How could she possibly be more desirable than Ryoshu, the one who straight up had a panic button for Dante?"
Faust disintegrated when Don Quixote's boots fell off. It's a top secret that cannot be leaked to the Sinners, and not even Dante until the time was right. But who knew? Vergilius, and the higherups of the LCB. They hired her because they knew - whether they thought she was useful or they just really didn't want their Sinners to face that.
From Don Quixote biting into raw chicken to chomping on enemies with her Lantern ID, it looks like we'll see more of cannibalism in the coming cantos.
