Tony Leung: “[Wenwu] isn’t a villain at all!”
On September 6, 2021, Tony Leung sat down with Hong Kong actress Carol “Dodo” Cheng for an interview about life, sports, and of course, his latest Hollywood outing as a widower who grieved the death of his beloved wife and a father who “didn’t know how to love [his children]” in Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings.
Interview is originally in Cantonese, and has been translated into English.
Today I’m really pleased to interview Tony Leung Chiu-Wai. The last time I really chatted with you in earnest was… Do you remember? In 2013.
I think that time I was with…
We were on a plane together.
We arrived in Hong Kong, and went to some awards ceremony. We were waiting for our luggage, exchanged a few words. That was 2013, and we haven’t met since. Where did we meet up next? I’m sure you won’t remember. It was here in Hong Kong. I was surprised by you. I usually go to the supermarket, very early in the morning. Because there’s no-one there.
I think that was probably it. Not too crowded in the morning.
You too. Why so early in the morning?
To… buy food. I usually wake up at 6am. I’d exercise until about 10am-ish, and then I’d…
Shower, then shop for food. I usually eat quite simply— it’s either salad, or buckwheat noodles. Salad doesn’t stay fresh very well. So I’d get up early in the morning, shop for what I like, and prepare it at home.
Have you been eating healthy all this time?
I’m not doing this particularly for my health. I get an upset stomach easily. I get food poisoning very easily. And it’s miserable having food poisoning! When you’re at work, others don’t know how bad you’re having it. But you can’t tell– you can’t convey that.
Alright, at this point it’s time for a nostalgia trip. We used to be colleagues, and we’ve shot TV series together. At that time, did you feel that you could eat whenever and not have to sleep… When did you start prioritising your health?
When did it start? I think it would have been… at least 20 years ago. Because it’s miserable being sick while on set. You’ve got to keep working. Even when I had a fever, (producer) Wong Kar-Wai would say, “No, it’s the last day, you’ve got to make it.” So I would work with a fever!
It’s good that everyone’s health-conscious now, and wants to avoid falling ill. So when I was preparing for this interview, some friends told me, They’d seen you and me do an interview, from many years ago. I don’t think you’d remember. We’re talking many years ago - decades here! You were really young at the time. At the TV station you were a rising star, a top male lead actor. So I interviewed you. I asked you a question, and I don’t know if you remember how you answered. I asked, “Have you thought about retirement?” You did give me an answer at the time. Do you remember at what age you said you’d retire?
I really don’t remember. I’m sure retirement was always on my mind then.
You were in your 20s then, not quite 30. You told me— “I will definitely retire at 36!”
I believe that when I started out as an actor, it was certainly hard work when I was just starting out. But I thought, I wouldn’t get to where I am today without going through tough times. But as I slowly grew as a person, my perspectives and values have changed. I feel more at ease. So I wouldn’t think in extremes like I did before. I think that in the past 10, 20… 10 years? I’ve become a more relaxed person. I wouldn’t just say, “now I’ll retire.” If I want to keep going, I will.
This is your favourite line of work, isn’t it?
Could you imagine yourself in any other career? I can’t.
A sportsperson, playing what?
I play a lot of sports. I like mountain biking, sailing, water skiing, surfing… I’m up for anything.
You really like water sports, don’t you?
It’s hot in Hong Kong, and summer takes up most of the year. What’s more refreshing than being in the water?
I’d still be in the water, wearing long sleeves.
You wouldn’t take up running?
I don’t particularly like it… I can’t seem to find much variety in running. I like to interact with nature directly. There’s something new every day. Take sailing, for example. Every day is different, the weather changes.
Your body is in a different condition every day.
You’re working with the changing conditions. You end up building up a lot of knowledge. You learn about nature, the weather, changes in conditions. The water, currents, what do you call it… Hot weather warms the ocean and you’ll have gusts of wind. I didn’t know all this. But the more I sailed, the more I thought,“This is great!”
You’ve got a real passion for this.
What have you been up to during the pandemic? It’s been 1— almost 2 years, hasn’t it?
I was filming in 2 movies… And… flying here and there.
Do you need to quarantine?
Quarantine! Countless times.
We’ve talked for so long, let’s come back to this film, Shang-Chi. I believe Tony has received endless invitations to appear in overseas films. Why did you choose this film?
I didn’t really… I believe it’s fate to be involved in certain films. I can’t just want to act in some type of film, then get it. An opportunity comes up, but sometimes the director might not like me, or I might not like the screenplay. Or I might like the director, but I don’t like the character. So you can’t just make this sort of thing happen. I think sometimes the time will be just right and things will happen. The director may like me, and I like the project, or I like the director. Or I might want to try something in particular. It takes a lot, a combination of factors, for something to happen.
It’s like a piece of furniture, isn’t it? The pieces need to be joined precisely.
How were you scouted for this movie? How were you approached?
The director approached me, wanted to have a chat with me. So I…
What’s your requirements for taking on a film? Do you need to read through the whole screenplay?
That would be best. It would.
You would’ve been in many films without a solid screenplay, wouldn’t you?
There would still be an idea.
But this movie… You know Marvel is very secretive. At the beginning, I was in a video conference call with the director. What he could tell me at the time was, “You’re going to be the main villain. Your character has many layers.” Then I asked, “do I need to fight?” “No, because you have those rings.” So I said, “then I’ll definitely be fine.” That was all.
What about that drew you in? Being the main villain?
That was one of the draws. In the past few years, I wanted to try characters different to those I’d played previously.
Why do all actors who have played male leads want to go off and play villains?
Actually… there’s more complexity to them. I feel like there’s a different mindset between playing a protagonist and an antagonist. I’ve acted for 30-something years. It’s about time I did something different.
So you’re in, you’re headed to the shoot, and you’re now the main villain! What’s the mindset behind this?
Oh, not for this film. I thought I was the villain at first. A month before the shoot, I read the script. I didn’t think this character was a villain at all. There was a real human side to this villain. Perhaps Marvel was hoping to portray a villain from a different angle this time around. So I was puzzled. Initially I was expecting, “Ooh, a villain, this will be fun”, but when I looked at the script, “no, this isn’t a villain at all!”
Yes, and a lot of humanity.
You thought it would be easy playing a villain.
I didn’t think it would be easy.
You didn’t think there would be so much emotion.
I didn’t think it would be easy. I thought there would be more evil in him. I read the script and thought, “oh no, he’s not evil at all”, And that’s difficult to portray. How would you let the audience… and I thought, “wow it’s as if he’s a good guy?” I read through the script and couldn’t find the evil in this character.
How would you portray this character? Was the director able to help you?
Or did he put a lot of trust in you?
I rarely… He put a lot of trust in me, and I don’t discuss with the director often. I thought, what’s the use of discussing? I could just act it out. You can be really idealistic when you discuss. I would rather do more… When I arrived, Destin would ask me, “Do you want to talk it out?” and I would say no.
Was there a read-through?
You went straight to shooting?
Yes, straight to the shoot.
Then it would be like, “Tony, stand here, in this shot do this and that, and you’d do it?
Yeah. It was kind of like that. We filmed the action scenes first. So there was time to warm up. Then the dramatic parts. I like the drama most. I felt the most excited during these parts. The action scenes were particularly tough, because it was summer in Australia then.
I did. At first I was told I didn’t need to fight. Then when I got there— wow, there’s so many action scenes! So I scrambled and…
But you’ve got those rings. You can just throw the rings.
Sure, but there’s still some action involved. Because I didn’t physically prepare beforehand, it was rather tough at first. I got used to it as the shoot went on, but the weather was still hot. And there were period costumes, so it was tough at first.
So there was a sequence, they filmed all the action scenes first, and then scenes with dialogue afterwards, is that right?
I think they deliberately scheduled this so I could warm up a little. So I wouldn’t need to dive straight into very intense dialogue.
There are a lot of actors involved, right? Your character has a son, too. Is this the first time you’re portraying a dad?
Would it be my first time…
Or you have, but not for a much older son?
Yes, not for a much older son. I had a child in “The Grandmaster” as well. But not that old, no.
How would you portray the emotions of a father-son relationship? Because your character didn’t know his son.
It was manageable. In this movie, the father– not that he didn’t love his children. He didn’t know how to love them. This character doesn’t even know how to love himself. The love was from his wife, portrayed by Fala Chen, He found love in this woman. But he doesn’t know how to love others. So he was very distant from his children, his sons— his daughters were pretty much ignored. He was a father figure who preferred sons over daughters, a rather… traditional father archetype. Almost the old-fashioned type.
In shooting this movie, what was most difficult for you?
Do you do all these scenes yourself?
I try to, but they wouldn’t let us do the really dangerous ones. If you’re injured, who’s going to replace you?
But I try to do as much as I’m able.
You’d need to rehearse the scenes with everyone.
Of course. Once we arrived, they arranged for Fala, my son, played by Simu, and my daughter… like you and I used to, we would all practice in the studio.
How long were the working hours?
It was 10 working hours a day, but we went all the way through that. There was no break in between.
Really? I thought you would be sitting comfortably in your trailer?
No! We filmed a lot every day! You know how that made me felt? It felt like I was in my TV days again.
You’ll think, "will we get through this much filming today?” And by the end of the day, you would. But it was very intense. Perhaps they didn’t want us to have a break, because we’d have to disperse and regroup. So we went all the way through. Once we arrived in the studio, it was full steam ahead. There was no meal break, because there was always…
I’ve never heard of a Hollywood film shoot without meal breaks.
There’s food throughout the day. Catering comes around, and we’d just eat.
But there wouldn’t be an hour for a meal break.
How long was shooting in total?
I was involved for about… 4 months.
Was that long or short timeframe, in your experience?
I felt like it was short, because they were very efficient and organised. They planned it really well. So every you’d head in and whoosh,
In your opinion, are there particular scenes you’re in that the audience should pay attention to?
I think… I wouldn’t say particular scenes, but the film as a whole. I don’t think you’ve all seen me in this get-up before.
We could tell from the promos.
Very different to what I’ve played before.
Did you stay in one place for four months, or did you have to fly around?
We were only in Sydney, because we were in a studio. It was all green screen. There were a lot of special effects, so we only had to construct part of a set, And the rest was green screen, so it was mostly shot in the studio. Only the opening and ending were elsewhere, in a park, and in a village on a set they’d constructed. So I was there for… I was in Sydney the whole time. But because of the pandemic, I left for a few months in the middle, and returned when were were able to shoot again.
How did you feel about your experiences after the shoot? It’s a Marvel movie, very different from the dramas and other films you’ve been in. How would you sum up your experiences?
Very stressed, very frustrated.
Because I’m the type of person who stays in their comfort zone. I filmed with familiar directors, and familiar crew.
You’ve really leapt out of your zone there.
I really stepped out of this comfort zone, working with strangers. The only person I could trust in was the director. I didn’t know anyone else there. And when I got a copy of the screenplay, like I mentioned, I realised, “Wow, a villain that doesn’t feel like a villain, what do I do?” I’d only received the script a month before the shoot. And when I got there, I had to work with the dialect coaches on delivery. I was filming, I was thinking… it was stressful. But we got through in the end.
Where were the costumes done?
In Tokyo. I was there at the time, and our costume designer kindly flew over to dress and fit me. At the time I didn’t know what was in the script, I didn’t know the story. But the costumes helped me a lot at the time. The movie’s costumes were made beautifully. I thought they had good design sense. So when I was dressed for the first time, I was able to feel…
That you were the character.
Yes, roughly. I had an initial feeling for it. And then I would turn up in person, and get a better feel as I played the character.
So the shoot is over, it’s about to be released. What plans do you have next, Tony?
Well when I came back to Hong Kong, I took part in a local film. Then I might shoot one in Shanghai, and then a TV series in Vancouver.
So you’ve done a complete turn-around since I last interviewed you. You were thinking of retiring at 36, do you not plan to retire now?
Not that I haven’t thought about it… I’ll stop when I feel tired. Then I’ll go back to playing sports. If I feel like I’ve taken too long a break, and go “no, I need to do something,” and there’s something I’m really interested in, I’ll do it. I don’t need to come to a complete stop. It’s something I like, after all.
So when you film in future, you wouldn’t be thinking, “oh, I’ve been in a Hollywood production, "I will only appear in productions at that tier.” You’ll be happy with a good screenplay.
You might be asked to shoot drama films again. You would still take that on?
Well, I haven’t given myself…
You’ve already left your comfort zone.
Yes, but I haven’t really limited myself to what I think I should film. If there’s a good film, I’ll shoot in it. If there’s something I like, I’ll do it.
Well Tony, surely a typical day in Hong Kong for you wouldn’t be on the water all day. What’s a typical day like for you without shoots?
Well I’d get up, and there would be at least 2 hours of exercise.
Maybe one, half day’s rest. You’ve got to let your body recover.
How about when you’re shooting in Hollywood?
Not during filming, I’d save up my energy for that. Shooting takes 10 hours a day, but hair and makeup could take 2 hours. That’s 12 hours, and it was tiring.
I needed the energy for filming. But in Hong Kong, without a shoot, I’d have 2 hours exercise in the morning, make lunch, I might do some sports, like sailing, or water skiing. I’ll come home, maybe watch a movie, or read a book. That’s it. Maybe I’ll have dinner.
I wouldn’t exactly call that exciting. [Laughter]
If the weather’s good and I spend the day out sailing, I’d feel really happy about that. But not every day’s a good day. I might capsize, and it would feel wrong. But it’s not all that bad.
Why don’t you enter competitions?
I have entered competitions.
Have you placed in these competitions?
Well… I have placed before.
Oh, that’s quite good. If you competed in the Olympics in sailing, there’s no age limit there right?
Yes, there’s no limit. But you don’t necessarily have to compete in the Olympics. I could…
But we would all be happier for it, Tony. Imagine, Tony Leung Chiu-Wai representing Hong Kong and winning a medal! You’ve seen how happy the medalists have been this year.
It’s really hard! It’s really hard!
You’re not as fit as younger people. It’s hard. I play sports purely for enjoyment. I feel like it’s an experience.
It’s… I’m not the type to want first place or something.
You’re not a competitive person.
Yes. I don’t want to experience a sport in that way. I’m there for my own enjoyment, not to win.
Let’s say in future… since I last saw you in 2013— that wasn’t even an interview, and now I’ve met you after all this time. Let’s say in 5 years. What would you be doing in 5 years’ time?
Back then you said you’d retire at 36. I’ll ask you again now, let’s not dredge up the past. What do you think you’d be doing?
In 5 years’ time, I think I would have more time for sports. [laughter]
Yeah. Well, not necessarily, but a lot of different sports. I do want to try some—
Try running! I’ve seen Kar Ling (Carina Lau) run before!
Yes, she likes running, and hiking too.
Why don’t you run with her?
I don’t really like running.
Hiking, I’d rather… well when I’m skiing, I’d walk in the back country, in good weather, carrying my skis and wearing my cleats, it’s the same thing. I’d hike up and ski down. But not that kind of hiking. Well sometimes… when in summer, in Hokkaido, I can’t ski. I would still hike, but I wouldn’t really like it. But it would be better with friends.
But you don’t like being around too many people.
I sometimes like being with family. But my family… not everyone can hike. One might cramp up halfway.
Since you like being on the water so much, how many people does it take to do that?
Just someone to steer the boat.
It doesn’t matter if there’s a boat?
I do a lot of different water sports. I have those… electric boards, the type that shoot up like a magic carpet on the water, I have a stand up paddleboard, I can surf by myself too, that’s doable. A lot of the sports I do can be done solo. I don’t need a lot of people around.
You’ve really changed from before. You used to like to… go out at night?
It has for a while. I haven’t been in the nightlife for 20, 30 years. I’d eat out for dinner at most. Then I’d go straight home.
I remember I used to shoot TV dramas with you, you surprised me— We’ve filmed one or two series together, I would go straight home to bed afterwards, because I’ve always been a morning person. You could still say, "I’m going to go out for a bit.” Yet the next day — our call sheets had us in very early — you were still able to make it in on time. Back then…it was a rite of passage.
Because I was young. Yes, and it was life experience. There are things you should do at that age.
Sure. Well, I hope to see you in another production soon. If this series were really successful, would you continue in any sequels?
[laughter] I really don’t know, I can’t say.
I feel like… as I’ve mentioned, there’s fate involved in shooting a particular film. We’ll see where…
Thank you Tony Leung Chiu-Wai for being with us today.
