“Death blowing bubbles,” 18th century. The bubbles symbolize life’s fragility. This plaster work appears on the ceiling of Holy Grave Chapel in Michaelsberg Abbey, Bamberg, Germany. (+)
Rereading older Joker stories and comparing them to what's going on with him now, wondering when we're gonna get back to Joker plots resolving because he just gets hit by a truck.
["Slayride" - Detective Comics (1937) #826]
He's still scary and awful in this issue, but a Robin thwarts him and then he gets taken out like a cartoon character. That's the Joker magic!
A while ago I got under someone's skin for referencing Joker's surprising delayed reaction to killing Jason Todd, and since then I've been thinking it's worth digging into as an interesting element of Joker's characterization.
Of course, first thing's first: Jason's murder in Batman (1940) #427, as originally presented in 1988.
Jason has just reconnected with his biological mother, Sheila Haywood, at a famine relief camp in Ethiopia— and he's discovered that Joker is blackmailing her with information about her criminal past. She gets him truckloads of medical supplies to sell on the black market, and Joker restocks the trucks with toxin. While Bruce races to stop a tampered truck, Jason decides to help his mother on his own. When he discloses he's Robin, however, Sheila betrays him to Joker, not only to stay on Joker's good side but because she's actually been embezzling money from the organization she works for this whole time. She's afraid an investigation prompted by Batman and Robin's appearance would expose this fact.
So Sheila stands by as Jason is felled by Joker and his goons, and then the crowbarring starts.
It's bad! When we return later, Jason is presumably dead.
While Joker isn't shocked that he's murdered a child, he does have an unexpected reaction to Sheila's point. He hadn't really been thinking about what he was doing, implying that he hadn't intended to kill Jason. He just got carried away, whoopsie! He didn't do this to get at Batman; he wasn't thinking about Batman at all. Now, however, he's concerned about how Batman will react.
Joker thinks Jason is already dead. The purpose of the bomb is to get rid of the evidence of his involvement, including Sheila. Joker is not broken up about what he did, but he does have a sense that he's gone a step too far and he doesn't want Batman to know about it. At least for now!
In the end, while Jason wakes and he and his mother try to save each other, they're trapped in the warehouse when the bomb goes off. Bruce makes it back only in time to find a dying Sheila, who tells him it was Joker. When Bruce finds Jason, Jason gets no last words. He's already dead, and Bruce is devastated.
A clue from Joker leads Bruce to the United Nations in New York, and there, infamously, Bruce learns that Joker has been made the ambassador from Iran. Joker is now protected from prosecution, and Batman going after him risks an international incident. Bruce still very much wants to, but Superman stops him.
Well, mostly Superman. I recommend reading Batman #429 to see Bruce's full thought process on this. He is furious and constantly thinking about finally ending Joker— but he also questions his mental state. He still wonders if he can hold Joker responsible if he believes Joker is insane. He uses phrases like "what happened to Jason" like it was a natural disaster, not murder. He even confronts Joker to give him one last chance to turn himself in to Arkham Asylum. Bruce is in a kind of denial, still grabbing at how things usually go.
But back to Joker. Evidently, he's no longer worried that Batman will find out he killed Robin. Joker admits to it immediately.
I assume Joker realized there was no point in denying it. Is Batman going to think it's a coincidence that Robin got blown up when Joker was around? Though Bruce does say it's Joker's taunts that 100% confirm for him that the clown was responsible, pointing again to Bruce still grasping for reasons to not break his rule in his grief.
By the end of the issue, Joker has naturally tried to kill the entire United Nations assembly, which instantly made him free game. So Bruce pursues him to a helicopter, and an in-air scuffle ensues in which Bruce explicitly prevents Joker from being killed by friendly fire, evidently so he can decide how Joker will die. Bruce jumps out of the helicopter, abandoning Joker to a fiery crash. However, despite Bruce's (supposed) intentions, Joker's body is nowhere to be found. The clown lives!
So that's it, right? Joker felt some unease about killing Jason initially, but in a short time, he was happy to gloat about it to Batman's face.
But when Joker reappears in Batman #450, in 1990, he is not triumphant. He's holed up in a dilapidated building, where he learns someone is impersonating him.
How often do we see Joker upset by murders? When the story returns to him, we learn more about his mental state.
With all of Joker's cackling glee at the things he's done, coming close to actual death in the helicopter crash has jarred him— and not just the crash, but the murder that led to it. He recoils from the memory of what he did to Jason. It's why he can't see the joke anymore. It's set apart from his previous crimes. It's too far.
Which is not at all to say that Joker is completely broken up about Jason. By the end of #450, he rallies and sets out to go after his copycat and restore his reputation to his liking.
In Batman #451, though, Joker is still plagued by doubts along the way.
Even when he overcomes those doubts, claiming the mantle as the one and only Joker when his copycat dies by falling into acid, Joker challenges Gordon to finally kill him. It's reminiscent of The Killing Joke, the first time Joker went too far. But like TKJ, Gordon and Batman decide to get Joker back to Arkham against their more vengeful instincts.
Joker's also decided Arkham is just what he needs. Outside, he's plagued by the reality of what he's done; in Arkham, he can settle back into his insanity and stop caring about it again.
So after that, Joker has no second thoughts about killing Jason, right? After all, he largely references the murder in callous terms. In-universe this makes sense as Joker revising history in his own head, particularly as more stories portray his effort to be more monster than man. Monsters don't have qualms about murder! But this is comics, so we can also presume that not all Joker writers know or remember #450/451, which I think is a shame. I find stories in which Joker expresses even just a degree of vulnerability to be more interesting than those where he's just mwahaha evil.
I have seen a few other bat stories bring some nuance into Joker's perception of Jason's death, though.
First up is the particularly nuanced "Fool's Errand" in Detective Comics (1937) #726, published in 1998. Bruce visits Joker in Arkham to get information on how to find a kidnapped girl who's running out of time. It just so happens Joker arranged this kidnapping for a particular day.
I strongly recommend this issue for batjokes fans, as it revolves around Joker talking the case through with Batman in his cell to help him figure out more clues to a crime Joker himself planned. Even with Bruce beating Joker up, the conversational tone feels almost friendly. They're just doing their usual thing.
Well, sort of. Bruce has already said he's not in the mood, and he interrupts their conversation to say so again.
Joker could insist that Batman stay and keep playing the game, and needle him for being unwilling to merely talk to Joker to rescue this child. Instead, Joker gives up her location.
And Bruce does come back as predicted.
So that was Joker's nefarious plan. He wanted to restore some hope to Bruce's cynical soul to be sure that his future failures would hurt even more. But it sure seems the middle didn't go the way Joker expected, when he recognized Batman just wasn't going to play the game as usual.
Joker doesn't jump into taunting. He doesn't answer Bruce at first. He's withdrawn and reflective. He's got something else on his mind on this anniversary of the second Robin's death, and he knows that Bruce does, too. Perhaps not forcing Batman to play was a small gesture, acknowledging the difficulty of the day, remembering how things changed. And what does that gesture cost Joker when he still gets the outcome he wants?
Second example is actually also called "Fool's Errand," this one from Robin (1993) #85, published in 2001. This is a fun one in which Joker discusses his interactions and frustrations with the Robins.
But while Joker indicates more than once that he wants to fight Batsy alone, after he talks about killing Jason, this is the next page:
Joker does not then say he was relieved when another Robin showed up, but still. He's acknowledged again that when he murdered Jason, things were not right. As angry as the birdies make him, they're a key component in the game.
Then we come back to "Once More, With Feeling!" in Harley Quinn (2000) #25, from 2002. Harley's been playing double-agent against Batman with Joker, and she and Joker have this exchange.
Joker typically makes light of murdering Robin, but it seems that when he's with just about his only confidante, he lets other feelings about it burst out.
There's also a flashback to DitF in Batman: Gotham Knights #44 in 2003. We get an exchange between Bruce and Joker before Bruce jumps out of the helicopter.
Joker laughs as the helicopter dives, ready to die, but before that, he seems resigned. He doesn't throw in a real dig about murdering Jason, and he doesn't gloat that he's finally gotten Batman to kill him. He acknowledges he crossed a line.
Lastly, there's a 2006 exchange between, well, Joker and Jason himself in "All They Do is Watch Us Kill, Part 2" as part of Under the Red Hood in Batman (1940) #649. Jason has kidnapped Joker as batbait, and when Joker needles him, Jason needles him back.
Joker regularly extolls his own crimes, but suddenly one of his victims mockingly accuses him of putting up a front, of not being as coldhearted and untouchable as he wants to seem. Maybe Joker does doubt what he's doing and retreats under the cover of madness so he doesn't have to think about it— just as he did in Batman #451.
I'm not sure if there are other examples of Joker expressing anything but mocking glee about Jason's death. I do know of times he's shown a sort of fondness for Jason (such as in The Man Who Stopped Laughing #4, Gotham War: Red Hood #2, Suicide Squad: Get Joker #3), but that's not really the same thing. Joker could've seen Red Hood as his and Batman's Frankenstein child without feeling any squeamishness about killing him in the first place.
But if anyone knows of any other moments where Joker does not act like killing Jason is absolutely his most favorite thing he ever did, do share!
a couple years back i made a post about life advice and one of the tips i gave was 'cheat at solitaire if you want to', and i've been thinking of that since.
like 16 year old me had no idea what i was saying. i was talking out of my ass. but yeah. yeah, cheat in solitaire. make your life easier, even if it's not how it's supposed to be lived, even if it's not how everyone else is living. get a cane, get a hot pack, quit school, cheat at the game that only you are playing, in ways that will only ever benefit you.
I meant brain chemistry not just chemistry lol. But yea the whole idea of this is delicious.. I’ve seen fic where Bruce just takes in Joker whole sale but Bruce taking in a “broken” Joker and knowing he’s gonna have to wrestle with weather or not to continue keeping up with the lie or getting him back to “normal” joker… inspired, truly. The brain worms got me I won’t be able to stop thinking about it for a while lol
Thank you! You’re very kind anon!
Yeah, reading Batman: It’s Joker time and Batman/Joker Switch and then I guess the end of Batman: Cacophony where he has that really weird beard all kinda souped together into even more brain rot in my head 😭
And yeah haha I’ve also read some of the real great batjokes fics where he takes a full strength Joker- they’re honestly a staple.
Just recently those comics made me wonder what would happen if say, Batman had found him before the media did at the start of Batman: it’s Joker time. Or if in this case someone did another deeply unethical experiment but he escaped again as he always does. Because clearly in this situation he can’t be taken back to Arkham, so what would Bruce even do? And I wanted to read that fic so badly I just started writing it 😭
Because it’s as you say exactly- is it more important to keep up with the lie, an imperfect lie clearly, because even in it’s joker time and switch he still kills people in this deeply confused state. But I think the point is that he is DEEPLY confused and in those comics where he’s been altered he normally ends up killing people he thinks are related in some way to the doctors that put him in that state- so it’s not his normal chaotic comedy, it’s a strange kind of progress. And again they were wrought under highly abusive conditions so who knows what Bruce could do with a more malleable Joker right?
I could ramble about this forever but I’ll save the rest of it for upcoming chapters, thank you anon!!
Just read Green Like Spring.. would comment on ao3 but they’re not allowing guest comments so here I am lol. I think it’s rewritten some of my chemistry its that good, I can’t wait for more!
Anon what if I burst out crying, omfg this is the nicest ask in the whole world!!
An Archive of Our Own, a project of the
Organization for Transformative Works
I actually wrote the first chapter of my first batjokes fic woo
I really decided 2024 was the year I was gonna actually contribute instead of lurking, so I hope at least one person enjoys! It’s gonna be a long ride (hopefully)
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