collector

[collectivephilosopher]

Arcane and Human Rights

(it’s like really really long, way too long for my own good)

Why I think the issue between Piltover and Zaun isn’t political differences–hear me out both of you–

I think I figured out why this entire Piltover vs Zaun thing is driving me insane.

Listen, I think Pugs4Thugs’ video Arcane Was Always Centrist is a very good analysis that addresses a lot of political issues in Arcane. But it made me realize how some see the political issue as Left wing vs Right wing and I think this is the wrong direction to see it.

The issue between Piltover and Zaun has always been and will make sense if it were seen from the lens of HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATION.

Before we start I want to make some things clear.

I’m not a westerner therefore I do not hold any political stance nor political ideologies. Left wings, right wings, whatever. We do not have that kind of concept. I never cared for political parties either since they all ended up the same anyways so I usually picked a candidate based on the individual. 

We do however have a history of heavy human rights violation cases. Until today a lot of people including me are still affected by the aftermath to various degrees. And wouldn’t you know it lmao it’s about to be repeated it seems.

Human rights is a universal fundamental right that one has as a human. Human rights should be the moral basis of every human.

If you can't agree then scroll away because I'm not convincing you.

I’m using the UDHR (Universal Declaration of Human Rights) by the UN as the basis of my statements. Again Human rights is a universal truth which holds above political and international law, the UDHR just formalizes it (if you see me writing 'Articles' I'm referring to articles in UDHR).

“Human rights are rights inherent to all human beings, regardless of race, sex, nationality, ethnicity, language, religion, or any other status. Human rights include the right to life and liberty, freedom from slavery and torture, freedom of opinion and expression, the right to work and education, and many more.  Everyone is entitled to these rights, without discrimination.”

(In short do not fucking argue with me with “it’s fiction” and “the UN doesn’t exist in Arcane” argument)

With that out of the way. I never understood the argument of “people complain about Arcane S2 because it doesn’t align with their politics” (as in political ideologies) because to me while the problem between Piltover and Zaun involves politic, the main issue has always been the HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATION that Piltover did to Zaun. And human rights are never up for debate.

What differ human rights violations and crimes? The main difference is the perpetrator. A Crime is done by an individual or a group who violates the law made by the government/institution while human rights violation CAN ONLY BE DONE by government/institution.

“Violations occur when a Government fails in its obligations to respect, protect and fulfil these rights. Often a violation of one of these rights is linked to a violation of other rights.”

–International Bill of Human Rights

“It was considered a major human rights violation because the shooting by the armed forces at the time was not born from their personal autonomy, from under, but based on the policy, from upside. So the military soldiers, the police, the intelligence underneath is implementing policies or or political choices from the ruling government at the time. Which was controlled by the commander. So it is not a crime. It can be called a crime as far as that is concerned about the taking of life or the use of sharp firearms that causes the loss of life, sure it can be called crimes as in criminal incidents or crime but it is not normal crime. Not a crime because of–sergeant A, sergeant B or colonel A, colonel B–for example disliked the victim then they have personal motive whether it is grudge or economic affairs, etc. Or other criminal motives like robbery and so on and so forth, there is no connection in that. so it’s only the connection between two big categories; the state power and the public–in this case were represented by the student movement.”

“The state's accountability for violating its obligations (to the international human rights law) is to ensure that those who commit the act are brought to justice directly. Through the proper judicial process, of course. For example, the person who shoots directly, the person who orders the shooting directly, the commander who knows or has reasons to know that the shooting was carried out or he fails to prevent it even though he knows, or when he fails and he knows but cannot prevent it, he does not bring the perpetrator to justice. So the accountability of the command will be pursued until the person most responsible for the brutal shooting.”

Usman Hamid – 71. Dokumenter Tragedi Mei 1998 - Sudah 21 Tahun, Lalu Apa? ( translated to English)

"Human rights violation is when human rights is not the norm."

Remember this because it’s very important.

(everytime I say ‘Piltover’ I mean the council, the enforcer, and everything that builds the state. I will use ‘Piltovian’ for the civilians)

With this knowledge we can safely say what Piltover did to Zaun was human rights violation because SYSTEMIC OPPRESSION IS HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATION.

(oh they rhymed)

What Piltover did is 100% wrong. Whatever Jinx, Silco, or whoever that did crimes in Zaun did will never be worse than what Piltover did because what they did was crimes not human rights violation. Not saying that it’s morally justified but morality is a grey subject human rights is more black and white.

To help you understand it, let me give you this example.

If Mr. John killed his neighbour and he was then imprisoned for it. This is a crime, not a human rights violation. It’s violating the law. Now if Mr. John killed his neighbour and was NOT imprisoned because of, say, lack of the law upholding it. Then it became human rights violation because the lawlessness of the state has allowed Mr. John to get away with murder. They may not encourage it but they have enabled and failed to hold it justice due to the lack of law.

A. Piltover

Piltover’s Violation of Human Rights doesn’t just stem from neglect but also exploitation. We know from Vander and Silco’s history that shit has been bad before the failed rebellion/massacre at the bridge. We know from Silco’s dialogue with the chembaron how the grey has been there since they were young. We know Viktor’s illness is caused by the grey when he was a kid.

The Grey is a factory smog/waste dump to Zaun without proper filtering. Who owned these factories? It has been there since before the chembaron rises, it has been there before Silco took over the Lanes. The air quality has been bad since Vi and Jinx were kids. The show refused to show it but we can safely assume Zaun is where all the dirty work happened. 

It could be that there are two types of this gas. One is from the mines that formed from the explosion during back when the city was still called Osha Va’ Zaun (from league lore) and the other is pure factory smog (From league lore it was also stated the mines were owned by Piltover). I’m only going to encapsulate this within Arcane since I might lose a lot of details if I include Lol in this.

And honestly the Grey part is a bit disjointed. I have found a very good analysis discussing Piltover’s exploitation in Zaun (encapsulated within season 1). Read here.

The point is, Piltover actively exploited Zaun and neglected the Zaunite. Both of these are human rights violations.

Article 23 – Right to Work in Favorable Conditions & Fair Wages

Article 25 – Right to an Adequate Standard of Living

The show also shows the inequality and discrimination happening between Piltover and Zaun. 

Stillwater is a prison located in Zaun territory. Every single person we see ever going to Stillwater as a prisoner is a Zaunite. Vi, Sevika, the Jinxers, firelights, the Chembaron goons, Isha, Jinx (was that stillwater also?). We can also see that these cells have no bed, no furniture, it’s not up to standard living conditions. The warden also beat Vi up daily to the point he can’t even count himself. When Jayce was held in a cell, the cell had a bed, table, and window. 

Article 5 – Freedom from torture and inhumane treatment

“No one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.”

→ The warden beating Vi daily clearly violates this.

Article 25 – Right to an adequate standard of living

You can say it’s just holding cell, he was not convicted yet which leads me to the next issue.

Unfair trial. Despite having so many people go to jail, the only trial we ever saw was with Jayce. Every single Zaunites who were captured went straight up to Jail. They were not given the opportunity to defend themselves. Hell, Vi went to Stillwater for 7 years for no charges at all.

Article 10 – Right to a fair trial

“Everyone is entitled in full equality to a fair and public hearing by an independent and impartial tribunal, in the determination of his rights and obligations and of any criminal charge against him.”

Article 9 – Freedom from arbitrary detention

“No one shall be subjected to arbitrary arrest, detention or exile.”

The word “Trencher” is clearly used as a slur to Zaunites. It was used by Marcus once (an agent of the state). You can say he’s a bad apple but the fact that he can use a discriminatory term and was not held accountable for it means the use of the word was not biden by the law therefore making the law maker responsible.

Article 7 – Equality before the law and protection against discriminatio → The fact that Marcus, a state agent, used "Trencher" as a slur without consequence suggests that Zaunites do not receive equal protection under the law. If the law does not prohibit such discrimination, the lawmakers are complicit.

SAY IT WITH ME KIDS.

B. The Enforcers

This section overlaps with the previous one with some specific addition.

The enforcers in Episode 1 were shown doing a massacre on revolutionaries on the bridge (the arcane wiki uses the word revolutionaries) during an uprising. This is clearly a violation of human rights. Since the league wiki uses the word uprising, we don’t know if it started

peacefully or not. Vander and Silco were clearly armed but we were not shown which side attacked first. However that’s probably not the point of that scene. The point is that it was the peak of the violence happening because of tension between the two regions.

But it was clear that even so, the power gap between the enforcers and the protesters was clearly big. First, the enforcers have full body armor while the rebels are wearing normal clothes. Second, in ep1, we see an enforcer shot twice at the silhouette of a man. Once knocked the man down, twice when the man was still on the ground, point blank.

Article 3 – Right to Life, Liberty, and Security of Person → Even if it was an uprising, executing unarmed or incapacitated individuals (as shown with the enforcer shooting a man twice, including when he was already down) is an extrajudicial killing, violating this right (he could just arrest the man).

Article 20(1) – Right to Peaceful Assembly (conditionally) → If the uprising began peacefully and the enforcers escalated it into a massacre, then this right was violated. However, if it was an armed rebellion, this article is less applicable.

In episode 2 the enforcers aggressively interrogate the people of Zaun near the arcade. The man spat on the officer’s shoe and was thrown through the arcade’s window. They then start searching the kids without warrant. In episode 3, again the enforcers searched the kids’ bedroom without warrant.

Article 5 – Freedom from Torture and Inhumane Treatment → Throwing a man through a window for spitting is excessive force and cruel treatment, which violates this article.

Article 9 – Freedom from Arbitrary Arrest, Detention, or Exile → The enforcers detained and assaulted Zaunites without legal justification, making it an arbitrary punishment.

Article 12 – Right to Privacy → Searching the kids without a warrant or reasonable suspicion violates their right to privacy and protection from arbitrary interference.

C. Zaunites, their crimes, and comparison to Piltover

C.1. Silco

I’m gonna start with Silco.

Silco, you can argue whether he’s a criminal or human rights violator. It depends on how you look at his place in the state. 

Legally, he’s not the law maker. He has no legal power over Zaun. With this we can argue he’s just a drug lord. His Shimmer empire is a criminal group that has enough money to bend the enforcer. He also exploits Zaunites to maintain power by violence and fear (“exploding his enemies” -Jinx) and money.

But we also can say that he was technically the leader of Zaun. If this is how we look at it then yes, he violates human rights. He flooded the market with Shimmer, encouraging dependency on an addictive substance (right to health), he uses Deckard as a human experiment for shimmer. He had allowed Zaunites to live in poverty and to a not up to standard living condition.

Article 3 – Right to Life, Liberty, and Security of Person

Article 5 – Freedom from Torture and Inhumane Treatment

Article 23 – Right to Work in Favorable Conditions & Fair Wages

Article 25 – Right to an Adequate Standard of Living

If we treat him as Zaun’s de facto leader, then he has a duty to uphold human rights, which he failed. 

However, the reality of the show shows that Zaun is ultimately still under Piltover’s rule, so the highest responsibility for these violations shifts to Piltover, not Silco. He and others I will discuss here obviously have moral and personal responsibilities but we’re talking about human rights. 

Since Piltover legally governs Zaun, the systemic issues—poverty, lack of regulation on Shimmer, and poor living conditions—are ultimately Piltover’s responsibility. Silco exploits these conditions, but he did not create them. He has no legal responsibility to fix these situations.

Zaun’s suffering stems from Piltover’s neglect and exploitation. Silco filled the power vacuum created by the neglect. His power exists only because of Piltover's actions/inaction. The root of the human rights violations still lies with Piltover, as they created the conditions that made Silco's rule necessary

I’m not saying Silco is going to be a great leader. If the deal for Zaun independence was ever through, I don’t think Zaun will magically have no issue. Silco is more focused on concepts instead of the actual humans. If he became the leader of Zaun legally, he would likely focus on the bigger picture. He certainly understands these concepts and what a nation needs to be independent. His deal with Jayce is proof that he genuinely wants Zaun to be a better place. However he’s someone who sees Zaun as what it could be aka the future, not the present (except for Jinx).

For example when he told Jinx, “the sons and daughters of Zaun deserve better than their (Piltover’s) runoff.”

He’s right. they do. But the sons and daughters of Zaun are also suffering from his shimmer. He doesn’t care what it takes as long as he obtained that better future. To him, it’s fine if the present children are suffering from Shimmer because he sees it as necessary for the future. The question is, until when? 

Even if Zaun became independent, they will still have to rise from ashes and blood (ha). At that point, Silco would bear full responsibility for its human rights issues. This is not saying he suddenly became gullible but he will be responsible. He has the responsibility to solve these issues. And unfortunately seeing how focused he is on the outline, the people on the lower side of the Zaun as a society will likely be neglected. To put it simply, Silco will likely focus on opening the door to opportunities while neglecting the people who do not have the ability to take said opportunities.

C.2. Jinx

Jinx Jinx, my baby blue. If you can’t tell by now, she’s my favorite character lmao. I promise not to be biased about her.

Jinx is the monster Piltover created. She’s one of the victims of human rights violations done by Piltover who grew up stronger than Piltover and in return hunted them back.

Unlike Silco, Jinx’s actions are more distinct to one another. Silco works in the bigger picture while Jinx works more on individual crimes.

C.2.1. Firelights

I will not talk much about them except the fact that on both times they clashed against each other, the firelights attacked first. The first time, Jinx was guarding a cargo when they attacked said cargo. The second time they just straight up attacked her with seemingly no reason (we know the reason but Jinx probably doesn’t). Obviously they have very different ideologies. The firelights use non lethal bombs for most of their attacks while Jinx just straight up kills them. Not saying Jinx never attacked first (probably, idk), the point is that  they are nemesis. Both swing their weapons. and for the both time the firelights ambushed Jinx, we can argue it’s self defense (and these are the rare times this argument can be made for Jinx lmao).

C.2.2. Ekko

Aside from the firelights stuff, we see Jinx and Ekko fighting again at the bridge. Honestly this is clearly a personal duel so no comment on that.

C.2.3. The Enforcers

Jinx’s massacre of the enforcers stems from pure hatred rather than a calculated act of rebellion—though the two overlap. The hatred is certainly more prominent than the rebellion. But we can tell that what Jinx did, despite coming from personal hatred, certainly has a reason. The reason being that the enforcers have been abusing Zaun, brutalizing Zaun. And Jinx is a part of Zaun. The enforcers have been abusing her. And if they have not ever since Silco took over then we can say past abuse. She’s bringing Zaun’s hell up to Piltover. To “Show them all” like Silco said. So with this we can say she's an Extremist insurgent (violent rebel fueled by hatred).

C.2.4. The Kidnapping of Vi, Caitlyn, and Silco

This is straight up just that lmao, kidnapping. A Crime. No comment on that.

C.2.5. Fishbone-ing the Council

Jinx doesn’t know the council was there having a meeting. She just shot the building, the symbol of Piltover. Her attack on the Council can be interpreted in three ways:

a. Terrorism → If she intended to cause chaos and fear, especially if civilians could be harmed.

b. Insurrection/Rebellion → If she saw the tower as a symbol of oppression and was attacking it as part of a broader resistance.

c. Accidental Assassination → If she didn’t know the council was inside but still destroyed a major government site, it’s still an act of war/terrorism, but without direct intent to kill leadership.

Jinx’s action fell mostly on terrorism. She sees the council as the symbol of her suffering and shoots them out of hatred with the promise to make Piltover’s life a living hell (even though season 2 dropped her motivation).

C.2.6. The Grey -> I’m gonna discuss this later in its own special section.

And despite all this, Jinx wouldn’t have done all of her crimes had Piltover not exploited and neglected Zaun (except for the actual personal ones like the kidnapping I suppose). Jinx wouldn’t hate the enforcers with burning passion had the enforcers not killed her parents and gotten away with it.

Jinx is not a hero. That much is obvious. She is a victim turned monster–she empathizes with other victims of the same oppression, a broken person who responded to oppression with extreme, chaotic violence. But she would never have existed without attrocities.

Piltover failed her, so she burned them to the ground. And if we’re talking about who is most responsible, it’s still Piltover.

C.3. Zaunites

Most of them are criminals. Vi, Powder, Mylo, and Claggor went to rob an apartment. Vander is an accomplice for hiding his kids’ crimes (and a past rebel, he has killed people). The Lanes is the black market area of the undercity created by The Last Drop for smuggling operations. The Jinxers is a rebellion group using violence against enforcers. We all know why they did the things they did. Because of Piltover’s oppression. The kids rob the apartment for survival (aside from Vi wanting to prove herself), Vander and Silco lead a rebellion because of Piltover’s oppression, The people of the Lanes, the chembarons, other Zaunites, resort to smuggling and illicit activities to survive.

Jinxers retaliate with violence is a testament of how your average Zaunites would do what Jinx did if they have the strength and the power to do so.

My point is that no matter what crimes Zaunites did, it’ll never be worse than the Human Rights Violation that Piltover has done.

D. jayce

D.1. His deal with Silco

Honestly it’s arguable whether Silco will give up a Zaunite if it were not Jinx but aside from that, this deal is heavily disproportionate. 

These are Silco’s demands:

a. Free trade routes

He wants the trade routes between Piltover and Zaun to be free. No blockage, No nothing. This is necessary for resource trades.

b. Blanket Amnesty

He wants what has happened between Piltover and Zaun to just be forgiven and the two moved on. Meaning what the enforcers have done, what the council has done, what Jinx has done, what Silco has done, etc etc be dropped and they move on focusing on their own nations.

c. Unrestricted access to the Hexgate

This ties back to the free trade routes. In that day and age, international trade mostly uses the Hexgate so if Zaun wanted to heal their economy, they would need hexgate for trades. Yes, it was Piltover’s facility.

d. Sovereignty

Silco wished for Zaun to be able to have complete authority over themselves. In this case with him as the highest owner of the authority. I mean, Silco was already the informal leader of Zaun so might as well.

Now these are Jayce’s demands:

a. Stop the production of Shimmer

Ouch for Zaun’s economy, they will have to find other goods for funding but at the same time Silco immediately agreed to it so I assume this has been his plan from the very start. He’s not planning on keeping Shimmer in an independent Zaun.

b. Return the gemstone

The gemstone was supposedly used as a weapon against Piltover because obviously Zaun currently have no military nor enough resources to defend themselves had Piltover invaded (doesn’t mean they’re completely helpless but still). I think Silco just kinda has to trust Jayce as a person who wants peace.

c. Give up jinx

This is diabolical. Jinx is a person. An individual. Terrible person as she is, her life is still immeasurable. I think that even if Jayce asked for someone else, even if Silco would not bat an eye on said person, it would still be a diabolical demand. Imagine a nation standing on the top of a person’s body.

This shows how Jayce/Piltover has not fully learned that this, all of this, is Piltover’s fault. Sure he said to the council he realized he’s not fit to lead Zaun showing his growth, but he still feels like he’s allowed to demand someone’s life as if he’s entitled to it.

Don’t get me wrong, I understand what Jayce is doing here. He’s trying to strip Zaun out of their power from the one he thinks is the least powerful to the most powerful one.

Shimmer→ He thinks Shimmer is weaker than hextech which is truly used combat wise but shimmer is also entangled in deeper parts of Zaun like medicine, economy, etc etc.

Hextech gemstone →this is self explanatory. He knows the gemstone if it falls into the wrong hands with the right knowledge can cause catastrophe.

Jinx → because he thought Jinx is some kind of Silco’s supersoldier.

But still, Silco here is asking for the bare minimum of requirements for a nation in which with this condition he is confident enough to lead without the risk of them crashing to the ground seconds after they took off. If we want to play the fair unfair game, what should have happened was Piltover fixing THE DAMN PROBLEM. in fact, THEY OWED ZAUN for all the Human violation they did towards Zaunite. All Silco was asking was literally to be LEFT ALONE.

D.2. Jayce and the Shimmer factory

The entire thing with Jayce storming a Shimmer factory and killing Renni’s son is another human rights issue because he never accounted for that after the incident.

Article 6 – Right to Recognition Before the Law → Jayce never reported the incident or took responsibility for the killing. By covering it up, he avoided accountability while continuing to operate as a political leader. You can say he was about to resign but he didn’t anyways at the end. He never told anyone about what Renni said and Zaun has to suffer because of that.

That being said the responsibility also falls upon the enforcers present. And since the enforcers were indeed shown to be present, therefore:

Article 7 – Equality Before the Law → If a Zaunite killed a Piltover child, they’d immediately face consequences. But Jayce, a high-ranking Piltover official, faces nothing because he never reports his crime. The law applies differently based on social status.

Article 10 – Right to a Fair Trial → Jayce avoids any legal consequences. There’s no investigation, no trial, and no justice for the child’s death.

E. The Grey

E.1. The Kiramman and the Grey

The Kiramman, ah the Kiramman. Anywhere I try to find where they get their wealth from, I found mostly nothing specific. The most I can find is that they’re renowned in trade and shipping and they invest in hextech. Of course this is a part of the show’s bias to show us clearly where exactly the council got their money from but I digress.

If we assume the Kiramman got their money from independent business then we can assume they got their wealth from factories, y’know? located in Zaun. The arcane wiki describes her as an “entrepreneur”.

She made the giant ventilation system that I can barely call ventilation since It encapsulate the grey into a chamber instead of directing it out to open air like a normal vent. It’s a waste containment which also does not work as functioning waste containment because they just left it there, unprocessed. From the map of the vent we can literally see the grey goes nowhere.

Cassandra (the Kiramman house) controlled the Kiramman key, which unlocked the Grey’s containment chamber. It also accessed the Kiramman archive. Instead of solving the problem, she controlled the solution then held it hostage. Honestly? it doesn’t even matter where she got her wealth from. Since she’s a councilor, then she’s also part of the government. She’s responsible for everything that happened down in Zaun and gullible for the exploitation done by the councilor. Again, she’s the law maker. She enables this to happen.

Article 25 – Right to a Standard of Living → The Kiramman family holds control over a vital environmental system that directly impacts Zaunites’ health. Instead of properly disposing of the Grey, they store it in a chamber, preventing full relief from pollution.

Article 3 – Right to Life, Liberty, and Security -> If the Kirammans control the vent and the key, they control the air quality in Zaun. This means they can allow or withhold relief at will, effectively holding Zaunites' health hostage.

Article 8 – Right to Legal Remedy → If Zaun has no legal power to challenge this system, it reinforces the systemic lack of justice for them.

Like I said earlier there might be two types of grey. The one formed from explosions in the mines and the one formed by factory waste. Since the first one was unconfirmed in Arcane I’ll mainly use the second definition (since it was confirmed by Smeech and the Kiramman archive).

E.2. Caitlyn and the Grey

No guys, I do not care if you still like caitlyn for all her “flaws.” you can love her, I don’t care, it's subjective. It just drives me viscerally insane to see people defending her actions.

So, I’m gonna make myself clear. I am writing this with the assumption that yes, physics does exist. I do not want to hear the “Arcane is fantasy therefore gas doesn't spread” argument. If you don’t want to acknowledge that then just walk away.

So Caitlyn here comes down as an enforcer in S2. She came down to Zaun as the state apparatus. Therefore once she went into that mission to find Jinx, she came down as part of the legal government.

The same applied to Vi btw.

The difference is that Caitlyn is the leader of this mission while Vi is her subordinate. She comes up with the idea to use the grey. She read the Kiramman archive about the effect of grey to human.We were shown the diagram of what it does to each individual human organ. And yet Caitlyn still weaponized it.

“She used it on criminals only!”

My ass. Almost every Zaunite can be classified as criminals.

"She used it at Chembarons only!"

She used it not just at Chembarons, but also at the Chembarons’ underlings. Have we forgotten that the people working in Silco’s Shimmer factory are children? Who to say these people don't also work for the other Chembarons?

Remember that the fact that children have to work in Silco's factory is also because of the poverty Piltover has caused in Zaun. Also, Chembarons, lord crimes as they were, only cared for money as they were, still a part of a marginalized group. The people Piltover oppressed.

That aside–

What is the purpose of using the grey? Really, what is it for? Gas weaponry is mostly used for crowd control. Like tear gas–like the writer wants us so badly to believe how the grey works. What’s the benefit of using substances like tear gas if you want to ambush a criminal base? It’ll literally just alert them of the enforcers’ presence. And I was right since Jinx was alerted before the enforcers, scratch that, before the visual of the grey even entered the screen.

They have guns, Just use the damn guns. If they’re trying to cover themselves then use a smoke screen like normal people. If they’re not confident enough to go on the mission without the grey then MAYBE HAVE MORE THAN 5 PEOPLE IN THE MISSION.

Again it is the show’s bias to say, “oh it doesn’t affect civilians” and deliberately remove that one scene from the trailer where Jinxers entered the Firelights hideout coughing. Don’t tell me “well it was deleted for a reason!” because the scene was already rendered which means it passed through the meticulous process from storyboard, animating, painting, finalization, etc etc. Also, we were shown the grey on: the street in the hellfire montage, the grey in the Vyx with last drop in the background, meaning the place must have been at or near a crowd populated place, the grey at the arcade, no where near any chembaron place, just a place Jinx knew.

The scene in S2E3 when Jinx confronted Vi about the grey, Vi replied with “we used the grey to clear the street, to keep people safe.”

So like… civilians then? you used the grey to clear the street from civilians so that if casualties happen, civilians will be out of the bullet line?

So I will say it time and time again, civilians will be affected by the grey and I refused to turn off my brain for that one glaring fact. It is beyond my suspension of disbelief especially since they use the same grey to pit Caitlyn and Jinx against each other.

Article 5 – Freedom from Torture or Inhumane Treatment → She weaponized a toxic substance against Zaunites, knowing its harmful effects. Even if targeted at criminals, chemical weapons violate human dignity and could harm unintended victims.

Article 7 – Equality Before the Law → The use of Grey specifically in Zaun suggests a discriminatory approach to law enforcement. Piltover doesn’t use chemical weapons against its own criminals, only against Zaunites.

Article 25 – Right to Health and Well-being → The deliberate use of an environmental hazard in a city already suffering from pollution further endangers the health of Zaun’s population, particularly children and the poor, who have no protection from its effects.

Article 3 – Right to Life, Liberty, and Security → Using a chemical weapon without regard for bystanders disregards the safety of anyone in the area, including those who are already victims of oppression.

E.3. Jinx and the grey incident

So Jinx rerouted the vent to shoot the grey back topside. Now it’s not very clear what this means. The show is framing it as Jinx attacking Piltover street as tit-for-tat. You hurt me, I hurt you back.

Now If the airflow is currently blowing into Zaun (blowing out the grey) then shouldn’t Jinx rerouting the vent sucked back the grey in? But from how it was framed, it seems like Jinx just rerouted the inside of the vent and it doesn’t really affect the grey on Zaun’s street. But still, if you logically think about it, the vent would be cleared from the grey. Jinx’s action even though she did it out of hatred, still benefitted Zaun.

Now Jinx’s terrorism towards Piltovian seems different than her action bombing the council tower in S1. In the battle, she uses “our” and snarls at Vi’s use of “we”. So she’s setting clear boundaries that she’s acting on behalf of “us”. As in, “Vi, you did not just betray me, you betrayed us, Zaun.” Jinx said, “poisoning our air?” from how it stated, clearly she was referring to Zaun as a whole, not just the Chembarons (Because Jinx doesn’t really associate herself as a Chembaron so she must have been talking as Zaun as a collective).

Jinx also said, “weird the kind of thing people believe when you choke them out?” This shows Jinx’s collective empathy towards her community. It honestly made me believe that Jinx wasn’t just doing this on behalf of her name and for her own hatred. She’s killing two birds with one stone. Get the grey out, and send a message to Piltover to not mess with Zaun.

Obviously the show very explicitly shows Jinx’s grey victim while showing none from Zaun. Again this is biased because we know both civilians are definitely affected. The show just chose not to tell Zaun’s part of the story.

Jinx shooting the Grey back at Piltover and Piltovian was the most extreme escalation of her war against them. But does that make her worse than Caitlyn? No. Even if Jinx’s action is (arguably) morally worse since she deliberately shot the grey topside indiscriminately as an act of terrorism, the most gullible one is still Caitlyn because she released the grey in the first place. Because without Caitlyn’s initial use of the Grey, Jinx would never have retaliated.

Jinx’s crime was reactionary—violent, extreme and unjustified, yes, but still a response to systemic oppression.

If Piltovian wanted to protest about the attack, go protest at the enforcer or the council.

BUT DON’T WORRY, I am indiscriminate. The ones most responsible for this is STILL THE COUNCIL. They are definitely responsible. If they know Caitlyn’s plan to use the grey and did nothing to stop it, then they are gullible. If not then Caitlyn is the most gullible BUT the biggest responsibility still falls on the council. If the council sees nothing wrong with it then the council is the most gullible. Cailtyn walked out of that entire grey incident without repercussion so we can assume the council probably approved it. Again, Violation of human rights.

Article 8 – Right to Legal Remedy → If Zaun has no legal power to challenge this system, it reinforces the systemic lack of justice for them.

F. The Martial Law

Maybe not too much on this (although everytime I say not too much it ended up being half pages long so...). But Caitlyn put “the city” under martial law under Ambessa’s suggestion until Jinx was captured. And by city, she means just Zaun because we saw nothing different in Piltover while we see enforcer checkpoints all over Zaun.

Article 1 & 2 – Freedom and Equality, No Discrimination → Martial law was enforced only in Zaun, while Piltover remained unaffected. Targeting one population under the guise of city-wide law enforcement is discrimination.

At this point she’s a COMMANDER. Assuming this means she held the highest position, then she’s responsible for all the things that happened under her watch.

Now about the checkpoints. We see enforcers are clearly there, checking bags, controlling the movement, so it was definitely under the enforcer force. 

Article 12 – Freedom from Arbitrary Interference → The enforcers controlled movement with checkpoints, violating the right to privacy and freedom of movement.

Rictus, Ambessa’s right hand, enacted violence on one of the Jinxer based on his hair color. The enforcers DID NOTHING to stop this even though the operation was under the enforcer’s supposed watch.

Caitlyn questions Ambessa about Rictus’ instigating violence at the checkpoint BUT she dropped it afterwards. She told Ambessa that she wasn’t the one encouraging violence and yet she does not object. Again, she’s the commander, the one with power. It is her responsibility to DISCOURAGE it. She said “arrest requires cause” and “why is peace always the justification for violence?” AND YET SHE LETS IT HAPPEN. The next time we saw the Jinxer, HE WAS ARRESTED and by Caitlyn’s own words: WITHOUT CAUSE. The Jinxer was shown to be interrogated, brutally at that. Is all of this happening under her nose without her knowing? HOW?? SHE’S THE COMMANDER. YOU CAN’T MAKE SOMEONE HOLD THE HIGHEST POSITION AND HAVE HER KNOW NOTHING. IS THERE NO ENFORCER GUARDS OUTSIDE THE INTERROGATION ROOM OR SOMETHING???

Which means she KNOWS she UNDERSTOOD that it is wrong and yet she did it anyways. She allowed it to happen.

Article 3 – Right to Life, Liberty, and Security → The Jinxer was arrested without cause and later interrogated brutally. This was under Caitlyn’s authority as the highest-ranking enforcer.

Article 5 – No Torture or Inhuman Treatment → The Jinxer was beaten during interrogation, an act of state-sponsored violence that Caitlyn allowed.

Article 7 – Equality Before the Law → Rictus violently attacked a Jinxer based on hair color, and no enforcers intervened. Meanwhile, Zaunites faced arrests without due process.

Article 10 & 11 – Fair Trial & Presumption of Innocence → The Jinxer was assumed guilty, arrested without a trial, and beaten during interrogation.

“It aligns with her character!”

I know and I truly don’t care if you still like her, we’re speaking about human rights today, later about the writing.

At the rally. Rictus again shown to be the one leading the arrest. But about a dozen enforcers were behind him. SO DON’T TELL ME CAITLYN HAS NO IDEA. HOW IS THE ENFORCERS ALLOWED TO GO ON AN ARREST IF NOT PER CAITLYN’S ORDER??? HOW??? 

And if Caitlyn knew about the arrest at the rally, then she must have known about the interrogation itself BECAUSE HOW ELSE WOULD AMBESSA KNOWS WHERE TO ATTACK?

If you want to tell me it was all Ambessa’s doing, Ambessa was the one telling enforcers around and the enforcers just ate it behind Caitlyn’s back THEN SHOW ME. Show me Caitlyn having a revelation that she has been fooled behind her back, that Ambessa has been operating the enforcers behind Caitlyn’s back.

BUT THAT’S NOT WHAT HAPPENED, WAS IT?

Vi said, “she oinked poison in your ear and you just ate it.”

Honestly Vi, you don’t really know that. But hey, Caitlyn did confirm with “I know!” Which means Ambessa just influenced her and not snuffing enforcers behind her back.

Article 9 – No Arbitrary Arrest or Detention → Approved mass arrests during the rally without legal justification.Article

19 & 20 – Freedom of Expression & Peaceful Assembly → The rally was violently suppressed, violating the right to protest.

BTW, CAITLYN KEPT THE WARDEN THAT SHE KNEW HAS BEATEN VI UP COUNTLESS TIMES.

She knew this guy is a human rights violator and yet she kept him. I know the argument is probably that was not her focus at the moment, but that doesn’t mean she’s not responsible and arguably gullible for it.

Article 28 – Right to Social Order Protecting These Rights → Caitlyn had the highest power to stop these violations but did nothing. She knew it was wrong, admitted it, yet still allowed it to happen.

She may not have actively ordered every abuse, but by maintaining her position, keeping abusive enforcers, and allowing mass arrests/torture under her command, she is directly responsible.

So now you may ask. Why am I talking about all this? Am I like, A PURIST? Do I just want to see happy stuff happening on screen? Do I want every issue to be black and white?

(Now listen here– I've said this in the beginning and I will remind you again, human rights violation is most definitely wrong. Unlike Jinx’s actions which can paint a shade of gray, you can never reason for it because the one responsible is the state itself. NO ONE can hold it accountable. No matter how much water you add, It will always comes out black)

Well kids, all of this analysis about human rights issues is actually just that, analysis about human rights issues in Arcane. I’m not complaining that much about the writing except maybe the biases I caught along the way.

That being said NOW I’m gonna complain about this one damn scene. Because it suggest that Jinx and Caitlyn were on equal term in case of attrocity.

SHUT UPPPPPPP. WDYM “OUR” CRIMES??? OH, I’M SORRY—

Caitlyn, I think you are mistaken. You yourself have not done any “crime” wanna know why? Because you’re behaving in the name of the state. It’s not a crime, Caity, don’t worry. Isn’t it fun? Being able to do all this violence without being held accountable because you’re only behaving in the name of the state? YES CAITY, THAT’S WHY IT’S CALLED HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATION.

YOU ARE, IN FACT, NOT EQUAL WITH JINX. If you were EQUAL you WOULD NOT be outside the damn cell with Jinx inside.

YOU GIVING HER A “CHANCE”??? CAITY YOU ARE WORSE THAN HER. THE WORST JINX HAS DONE WAS INDISCRIMINATE TERRORISM, YOU VIOLATED HUMAN RIGHTS.

And don’t worry because Jinx KNOWS what she has done. Season 1 made it very clear that Jinx understands what kind of person she has become. The question is, Caitlyn: DO YOU??

I’m sorry, I try my best to reinforce calm and leveled discussion regarding Arcane BUT I HAVE MY LIMIT–

The only “crime” Caitlyn has ever acknowledged was for “listening to Ambessa.” Entschuldigung but no one ever told you to use the grey on Zaun.

Yes, Ambessa manipulates the situation in S2 but let’s be real, Renni’s attack on Jayce at the memorial was long awaited. 

Going back to Caitlyn, the second time Ambessa manipulated the situation is during S2E3. She lied about Amara being killed by two assassin Zaunites. Piltover ate it up, no question, no investigation (even though Caitlyn is supposedly a detective).

Caitlyn is clearly not competent for the position. Or at least not yet. She was given that position to her, she has not earned it herself. And guess what? The second she held the reign, she abused it and she never faced any repercussions for it. No, losing an eye is not a consequence of her action towards Zaun. Maybe the consequence of listening to Ambessa but she has not done anything for Zaun. She still lives in her cushy mansion and the ending chose to show her having a comfortable life with Vi instead of showing how she’s trying to redeem herself. She gets to walk away with it.

Caitlyn wasn’t just a soldier following orders—she was the commander of the enforcers. She had the highest authority in the force, which means she was responsible for every action taken under her command. Unlike lower-ranking enforcers, who might claim they were "just doing their job," Caitlyn had decision-making power and used it to enforce oppressive and violent policies.

Caitlyn is both a product of the system and a willing participant in it. She is not just complicit—she was responsible. And yet, unlike Jinx, she never faced judgment. She walked free, while the people of Zaun suffered under the system she upheld.

NO MATTER what Jinx does, what Silco does, what ANY of the Zaunite does. It will NEVER be WORSE than what PILTOVER does. A crime is an act of wrongdoing, but a human rights violation is a failure of a system meant to protect people.

“Arcane is a tragedy!”

yes. yes it is.

[collectivephilosopher]

Me and my big mouth. The higher ups in my country (eheum sorry, "provocators") are "allegedly" trying to trigger a martial law by exploiting protesters' "chaos" (it ain't organic ya'll this is some old trick they're tryina do).

Suppose you probably could guess which country I'm talking about. It's pretty much everywhere on my social media right now. Me and my damn big mouth literally jinxed it.

If it happen, well... lmao... I'm 90% sure I'm gonna be left a name.

[telekinetic-electronica]

did the fanbase have collective amnesia on silco or something.

like, no shit he's not a good person.

but there's nuance to his character. he isn't sitting in some evil lair, twirling his mustache.

he does cares about zaun. and improvement did actually come to zaun.

he loves and cherishes jinx, even if their relationship was toxic. that's his daughter.

he doesn't hate vander.

i thought we all collectively agreed that silco is one of the most well-written, in-depth, human antagonists in modern memory.

[ravenking1771]

I agree with this except I don’t think chnage came to Zaun because of Silco but in spite of him.

Silco was fundamentally wrong in both his ends

Zaun was better served by joint with Piltover not separating, Zaun was better served by talking to Piltover than fighting and Silco’s ethos of the Will to Power (that power is by being willing to do whatever it takes) was false; Silco did not inspire a wit of loyalty by his ruthless or brutality instead he created a predatory system that ate itself starting with him.

[collectivephilosopher]

Silco literally talks his way into independence with Jayce tho...

"Zaun was better served by joint with Piltover not separating" <- you know what happened when they're in jointed as the same city? Police brutality, discrimination, Piltover dumping waste to Zaun without care, massacre, arrest without warrant, breach of privacy, gassing, Silco & Jinx.

Do people forget Piltover and Zaun are the same city just different region? Because Piltover's council is "responsible" for Zaun, that means they can apply anything to Zaun without consequence of law because they are THE LAW. Talking to Piltover result in massacre. Fighting with Piltover at least make them start concerning and looking at Zaun also more violence but at least Zaun gets their attention. The story needs third party + magical hivemind world ending threat (which also made by piltover btw) to make Zaun has no other choice other than fighting for and with Piltover to get ONE council seat in which will get voted out each time anyways.

"To defeat oppression you must fight for and with your oppressor" <- what a joke.

Whether or not Silco will be a good leader is a tomorrow's problem because AT LEAST he DOES CARES.

[telekinetic-electronica]

did the fanbase have collective amnesia on silco or something.

like, no shit he's not a good person.

but there's nuance to his character. he isn't sitting in some evil lair, twirling his mustache.

he does cares about zaun. and improvement did actually come to zaun.

he loves and cherishes jinx, even if their relationship was toxic. that's his daughter.

he doesn't hate vander.

i thought we all collectively agreed that silco is one of the most well-written, in-depth, human antagonists in modern memory.

[embershroud108]

Caitlyn and Vi weaponizing toxic air pollution against the undercity and then Jinx and Sevika using Janna’s temple to recreate her legendary miracle by blowing that toxic air back onto Piltover.

Jinx (and Sevika) just became the hero Zaun needs.

[embershroud108]

Shut the fuck up, Vi.

Your capacity for self-delusion is becoming unmatched.

[collectivephilosopher]

Ay, at least she tried to justify herself unlike a certain someone.

[mad-not-disappointed]

fans of arcane who hate maddie always makes me laugh. because like yeah, i don't particularly like her either. she's not much of a character honestly and she was somehow a worse twist villain than all those disney twist villain. she was so forgettable and yet her whole betrayal was so predictable and not surprising at all.

but fans don't hate her because she's a boring character or because she betrayed caitlyn, oh no no, they hate her because she came in between vi and caitlyn.

and again, i'm not like a maddie superfan either but it's such a childish reason to hate on her. first of all, it's not like vi and caitlyn were in a relationship when maddie slept with caitlyn (and if it was, i think caitlyn would be more to blame).

and secondly, y'all act like maddie forced herself onto caitlyn or something. sure, caitlyn was at an emotional low but she was very much in her right mind and she consented to sleeping with maddie.

and sure, maddie was manipulating and lying to caitlyn. but idk who bought that act for even a second. i don't even think caitlyn herself believed it. it was clear from the get-go that maddie was supposed to be the super nice character who turns out to be evil later on. and her betrayal wasn't even set up well because she has so little screentime, you barely remember her during the big reveal.

overall, maddie was an unnecessary and poorly written one-dimensional character and it's hilarious to me that fans despise her SO MUCH. genuinely there are people out there who swear that maddie is this evil, twisted monster like come on, she's barely even a character, y'all 😭

[sappho-favorite-pupil-fandoms]

caitlyn stans are accusing me of "not being able to appreciate a complex morally grey character" because i criticize caitlyn kiramman's arc awful writing. actually i would have liked caitlyn 20 times more if they let her really be cruel on screen, instead of having her play dictator for no more than thirty (30), shallow minutes.

[sapphiresaphics]

Again, for the people in the back…

1. Caitlyn isn’t a dictator. She never wanted to be one. She has the position of general thrust upon her by an ACTUAL dictator. And she does everything within her power to do what she feels will help Zaun (getting rid of shimmer and the chem barons).

She has good intentions throughout the entire show, and the show is depicting ways that good intentions can be corrupted and twisted and still do harm. Her arc is literally the “we lost ourselves, lost our dream. In our effort to be great, we failed to do good” quote personified.

2. Having her go full “evil” would not be a morally grey character. Nuance and complexity means sitting with uncomfortable feelings and contradictory emotions and actions. You are uncomfortable with that so you wish it was removed so it was more clear cut and black and white and easier to digest as morally right or wrong. Having a character do bad things while trying to be good is far more challenging than a character who just is flat out evil at all times.

You absolutely should be roasted for not understanding any of this.

3. This has absolutely nothing to do with loving Caitlyn as a character. I am not a Caitlyn Stan, I am a Stan for the show Arcane. People pointing out your failures aren’t part of some malicious group that you can easily dismiss. That’s literally what the show Arcane is trying to teach you to AVOID DOING, yet here you are doing it by “othering” anyone who criticizes or challenges your bad takes.

Cailtyn is an interesting character. It’s not bad writing that she makes you feel uncomfortable. Learn to deal with that feeling and process what happens in the show so you can actually appreciate what the story is trying to teach you.

[sappho-favorite-pupil-fandoms]

1) Caitlyn is...a general with dictatorial power over the country. i don't know, you can call it however you want, but the substance doesn't change. but i bet she didn't mean to gass anyone, she thought it was oxygen, not poisoning gass! also she only gassed the bad guys, right? so it's not a bad thing. it's alright when the dictator gasses criminals, right? also she thought it was the right thing to do. except she doesn't?

the writers don't even have the guts to make her stick to the "i'm doing the right thing" mindset for 10 minutes straight. they have her say to Ambessa "why is violence always the justification for peace?" literally a few minutes after the beginning of her "villain arc". they really said "see, Caitlyn has doubts on Ambessa from the start, so she's not that bad" (even if she doesn't stop everything when she gets the chance), but then they refuse to elaborate on this. what i mean is, okay, Caitlyn has doubts on Ambessa's methods, but to which extent?

Caitlyn has doubts only on Ambessa, is she suspicious of her "mentor"? or is she starting to have doubts on her own actions? the writers want to tell us with this line that Caitlyn understands what she's doing is wrong but she thinks she's doing it for the right reason? or maybe Caitlyn understand what she's doing is wrong but doesn't care because she deems her own revenge over Jinx to be more important than Zaunites' lives? or maybe she's confused, and doesn't really know what she's doing anymore?

we will never know. there is no way in which we can know, because the show doesn't tell us and doesn't give us a way in which we can comprehend it (in fact, we're given confusing inputs on this matter). and this, when the audience is left to guessing parts of the plot, is bad writing. there's no escape from it.

if i had to guess it, i'd say Caitlyn is a rich and privileged woman that is used to having her way, and that when is faced when something that deeply upsets her (her mum's murder), reacts with entitlement and has no issues if Zaunites will have to pay the price of her seeking a personal revenge. but this is just my own interpretation, because, as i said, having characters pronounce a couple of lines instead of showing us how they feel is very bad and confusing writing.

2) i never said i wanted her to go full "evil"? where did you read that? what i said is i would have appreciated the courage to make her more cruel, as in having her own the fact that she was doing cruel things. maybe even for a "greater good". and no, there's nothing "challenging" about having a dictator that does bad things thinking they're doing good, instead. it's literally the norm. if this is the interpretation of caitlyn's actions you want to go with.

3) what's wrong with "othering" people and criticizing or saying i don't agree with some of their takes? it's discussion, and it's healthy, as long as we discuss in a polite way and don't try to strip others of their right to hold different views (or consider them inferior because of their different views). which is something i never did. nor i have ever said you or anyone else was "stupid" or deserving to be roasted for not agreeing with me.

i won't comment on the "this is literally what the show Arcane is trying to teach you to AVOID DOING" part, because i truly think it speaks for itself.

[collectivephilosopher]

Just gonna add a little for the first part (though everytime i said that i always ended up writing paragraphs). Caitlyn gassed Zaun before she was "thrusted into power by actual dictactor". Second the entire thing about Ambessa somehow able to make Caitlyn a commander is so weird. Ambessa was literally a guest yet she could overpower a council member and appointed a rando as highest commander of Piltover's military.

Also, Caitlyn was... as I remember it in S1, one—a low ranking officer, two—was fired. Let's exclude number two for a moment. I don't believe there was no one more senior or more higher ranking (in enforcer) than caitlyn that is more naturally appropriate for the title. This is why the assumption is Caitlyn was able to reach that high of a rank in such short time (decorated officer) just because of her family name.

Lastly, what the hell was caitlyn's good intention? Was it capturing Jinx? Was she capturing Jinx for good intention? I thought this was clear as a no. She did it for revenge.

If she trully had good intention, the show never showed it. They should've made caitlyn trying to justify her action. Not the show, but the character herself. Idk, something like trying to use gas weaponry to "clear the street" like Vi said (but this is Vi saying it and it was also inconsistent in the narrative). But this require the narrative to admit that includes gassing civilians.

[bigriceenthusiast]

not to be insufferable about arcane again, but for all my complaining, i do think caitlyn could've had a really good arc, the writing was just weak

now, before i say anything, please stay with me + give this a shot

we go back to the french revolution (i know, i promise this is relevant): louis xvi and his wife, marie antoinette, are ruling monarchs of france. their lower-class subjects are living in truly vile conditions. they are parents, some records go as far as to suggest that they were caring parents, and the queen, specifically, loved her children dearly. their subjects still starved, though.

alas, the people finally snap; they can't do this anymore. when the people shall have nothing more to eat, they will eat the rich. so, revolution comes, and the monarchs are killed, violence floods the streets, only one child survives.

told from their perspective? brutal, violent, tragic. told from the people's perspective? brutal, violent, liberating.

no one in this day and age will argue with me that the french revolution was a bad or unnecessary thing, no matter how much it may have sucked for the royal family.

however, this story isn't about louis xvi or marie antoinette or their three dead children or even their one surviving daughter. this story is about caitlyn kiramman, a fictional character that you can relate to and sympathize with precisely because she is fictional and you, as a viewer, are attached to her in some very real, human capacity that is both lacking and irrelevant in real historical discussions about the french revolution of all things

still, this is the same situation. and before ANYONE tries to argue with me, i'd like to point out there is a direct reference to the french revolution equating jinx to liberty guiding the people which i'm still mad about so it works perfectly for this analysis

now caitlyn's arc could've gone one of two ways, and i'm upset because they were fence sitting and didn't go either:

1.- we accept caitlyn becomes unethical. period. it's okay for a character to do despicable things and have us still like them, it's okay for them to be morally gray. but that's not what we see in arcane: instead, her actions are brushed over, and immediately forgiven in a way that doesn't make sense for the in-universe characters simply because she defeated some "big bad" at the end so she isn't the true villain

narratively, she's treated as a hero while she does not embody traditional heroic ideals. the difference between heroes and anti heroes is not whether if we should like and root for them, it's their motivations, methods, and morals. caitlyn doesn't work as a narrative hero and the story shouldn't treat her as such (this is ignoring how rushed her arc was absolutely every moment she was on screen)

caitlyn can be an anti-hero, she can have a corruption arc. she can have revenge, she can embody corrupt systems and still be sympathetic, but there is a narrative dissonance between her actions and her consequences/perception

2.- caitlyn is pushed even further towards her desire to heal the cities. caitlyn becomes radical in her hope and utilizes her power to be better than her mother, to work towards a kinder, juster world in her understanding that the loss of her mother was due to her own oppression.

she could try to mitigate that oppression to avoid future tragedy, think about zaunite kids who've also brutally lost their parents much younger (ie- her girlfriend), she could become an in-system revolutionary and use the political power she holds to do good

then she'd be a hero: tragedy would push her towards the opposite direction, and the way she's treated and perceived narratively would align with her plot and actions, but that didn't happen. hence people finding the whole thing infuriating

now, you may say but that's unrealistic! i mean, sure, you can think so but hope is essentially a revolutionary act and to push to heal the systems that hurt you instead of further push down the people who tried to fight for their own rights is inherently more heroic than a corruption arc

and to make myself so clear: i DON'T mind gray morality, or corruption arcs. the problem was it was horribly written.

my point is: from caitlyn's perspective what happened to her mother was a brutal, criminal act of violence and tragedy. from zaun's perspective? it was a brutal act of violence and hope

just as the french revolution wasn't about marie thérese charlotte, the bombing of piltover's council wasn't about caitlyn kiramman's feelings. she was morally wrong, and from a narrative perspective that's okay because the story as a whole is about her but please stop pretending otherwise

[collectivephilosopher]

I agree with a all of this. Like, it doesn't matter what caitlyn arc is, it just has to be written good. There is this theory going around that it was fortiche who included all the french revolution imageries (because they were french lmao). Again this is a theory, and mostly a joke so it's not like a confirmed thing. It seems like the writters (the S2 writters) doesn't actually want to write a revolution story from the very start. They just want Jinx to be a hero but also Caitlyn to be a hero but they seem to have bias towards Piltover.

That being said, I'm gonna add some more about the French revolution aspect of the op's post. Keep in mind I'm not a historian, I just read a lot about it in the past (it's also just me yapping about history lmao).

There are three revolutions that were often confused with each other. The French revolution, the July revolution, and the June rebellion.

The french revolution was initially about reforming the monarchy. In fact, it was supported by Marquis de Lafayette and Duke of Orléans. They're the liberal noblility trying to support the people. The movement spiralled to abolishing the house of Bourbon and Lafayette who was opposed of radical changes flee France after the monarchy fallen.

The French revolution is the one with Louis XVI and Marie Antoinette. They're actually the less aggregious ones with lavish spending. Like it's still abhorrent but it's dialed down compared to (and because the comparison is) the previous kings.

Marie Antoinette does spend lavishly especially in her youth. She was a young girl, princess of Austria, who were married for political purpose to Louis Auguste (Louis XVI), who were resented by the house of Bourbon due to Xenophobia. They deem her having "Low taste". So she tried to be the most lavish princess. But keep in mind that her spending was not uniquely extravagant by royal standard. Alas it backfired horribly and her name was tainted.

As she grew older she abandoned fancy clothes for more modest one (and then she was criticized for triggering the fall of French fabric industry, the slander just never stop). She tried to promote a simpler lifestyle but it was seen as too little too late (yes, hameau de la reine was supoosedly also an attempt to that). She also does charity a lot but she also believed in absolute monarchy.

For louis, he also believed in absolute monarchy so there was a fault structurally in their concept. However he is the more reformative king compared to his predecessor. Some sources even say that the people actually liked Louis XVI most of the time but at that time of crisis the king failed to mitigate an actual solution. The time of crisis is their economy failure mostly damaged by their support to American revolution (and the seven years' war against brittain). He tried to appease the public and the nobility but ended up being indicisive and at some point he crossed public hope by firing his finance minister, Necker. He miscalculated people's support of Necker and the horrible living condition his subject's in and it triggered the french revolution.

There were actually several people of the house of bourbon that survived french revolution. The key figures are Marie Thérèse, Louis XVIII (brother of Louis XVI), Charles X (youngest brother of Louis XVI) and Louis philippe. There were several more but they did not reappear in public.

The July revolution is what the "Liberty Leading the People" painting depicted (the one arcane refer with Jinx holding flag). It is to overthrow King Charles X who was trying to revive the House of Bourbon. He sees French revolution as a mistake. He was then overthrow by the public and the bourgeoisie aka the people of high standing (and liberal nobles, Lafayette and Orléans made a return here).

I've seen comparison between Arcane and Les Misérable.

I mean, look at Isha and Gavroche:

The story in Victor Hugo's book is set up during the The June rebellion. This is the revolution in which the liberal nobles did not support (because it's republican reformation and lafayette was still a monarchist) and this time this is against the Burgeoisie. The rebellion is against Louis Phillipe who before was in support of July revolution but his regime become conservative and repressive especially after uprisings (he is on the side of the burgeoisie's interest mostly). This uprising is a failed revolution.

In my opinion none of the revolution really parallel how the situation is in Arcane. Maybe motivation wise it's the French revolution but structural wise it's the June rebellion? Narratively I think it's June rebellion even though there was no geographic separation and the state oppression in arcane is direct wheras in Louis' Philipe regime it's more indirect (neglect). Also the June rebellion is more about wanting a republic and not another monarch while in Arcane Zaun literally are just trying to survive.

[hexxxcapades]

caitlyn kiramman you had so much fucking potential.

i mean what happened to deconstructing the tools, motives, and mechanisms of the fascist piltoverian regime? what happened to all the buildup in s1 pointing toward a caitlyn kiramman dictator arc? caitlyn doesn't NEED to be a good person to be a great character; in fact i think i would have liked her so much better if we actually got to SEE the consequences of her actions.

but s2 completely ignores the the class commentary of s1 because caitvi getting back together with little to no deeper inquiry into the power imbalance and class politics inherent to the relationship is basically good writing, right? fucking in a jail cell is basically good writing, right?

AUGHHHH *gets shot and dies*

[stanlunter]

There are a lot of Arcane critical points I agree with, but there's also at least one I don't understand

It's the whole "Arcane killings/making kill themselves characters who were suicidal at any point (Jinx, Jayce and Viktor) is wrong/bad"

This statement is so common and usually even ignores the fact that Jinx didn't die, but just escaped and started a new life, but I don't understand what exactly is the problem. Like yeah, it is definitely sad and unhappy when characters die, especially those who wanted to die (and as a Jayce fan I hated that they killed him anyway), but I don't get why them being suicidal before makes it worse. I mean, mb it would sound bad, but like, a lot of suicidal people do in fact kill themselves. It is horrible and it is tragic, but it is also realistic and makes sense logically. I would say it doesn't even go against the characters and their development, at least as much as s2 can afford it.

Yeah, sure, it doesn't give real suicidal people "hope", but the thing with tragedy is that it never suppose to do anyone hope, it supposes to show how bad and irrevocably things can be. And at this point, if s2 writing (of these characters specifically) was done better and these three killing themselves was shown better, I would have zero problems with it.

So if anything, I understand why fans are complaining about their deaths being done poorly written, but I do not understand the problem of it in general, cuz Arcane never tried to be an optimistic show that shows people that everything will be good. In fact, it was always showing us the brutal reality and the world as cruel as it was, without trying to make things look better than they really are (specifically s1 cuz we know how bad s2 was at showing anything)

At this point, I would love someone to explain me why exactly they think it was a bad decision

(Btw, I love it more when the characters who killed themselves haven't suicidal attempts before so them doing this is seems unexpected, while it still makes sense, sadly probably the only examples I can recall are from classical literature like "The lower depths", "The storm", "Poor Liza" and etc, but it doesn't change much)

[visoceaneyes]

while i cant really speak on jayce or viktor i think the issue with jinx's ending is that the message is that she has to be gone for vi to be happy, which with the context of her being suicidal, even if she didnt kill herself just feels kinda icky ig

[collectivephilosopher]

To add to this, the trope "suicidal character finding peace by sacrificing themselves" is something that has been seen before. While i'm not sure how common and overused it is, it's certainly something that I often hear coming up again in different show and media. And while I think it can be done good, I think a lot of it were a miss because it's often portrayed as a middle ground between the narrative and the character's mental state. To "empower" their death which before was their undoing.

"I get to do good and I get to die"

Win win.

In Arcane's case, this is certainly a miss because we didn't get the moment where we were for certain Jinx isn't suicidal anymore. Or Jinx realized she wanted to live. Like for example a before death speech from Jinx to Vi about Jinx's regret and her desire and her wish would convey this (somewhat).

For the "Arcane is tragedy" argument. First, the show was presented as Jinx now get to use her death which she has longed for to save her sister. There is an "empowering" underlining in Jinx's sacrifice. Second, I don't think Arcane season 2 was a good tragedy in general. It lacks the cause and effect of a tragic story.

For example, the ending of S1 finalle happened because of a series of event leading to that ending. Jinx ending up setting that entire family dinner was because she couldn't overcome her fatal flaws. she wished to be accepted and loved for who she is, she has trust issues, she believed true royalty is absolute royalty, etc. While external factors played in the making of Jinx, the ending where Silco died happened because Jinx is her own undoing. This is called Hamartia. A fundamental flaw in a character that made their life a tragic story.

Jinx's sacrifice in S2 lacked this factor (not helping Vi's story ends on a lighter note than someone like Ekko). What's Jinx's established hamartia in the first act for example? The ones I can think of is that she lacks self preservation and she doesn't want to take responsibility of her action (the leading Zaun thing). At S2E9, Jinx already leading Zaun into the war so she has overcome the second flaw. So it left us with the first flaw that is she's suicidal.

Like I said earlier we don't really know if she is no longer suicidal because the show never shows it. So did Jinx sacrificed herself because she's suicidal? This is unlikely the main reason because she sacrificed herself for Vi. But maybe we can go with the win win scenario I gave earlier. This is what irks people. The show tries to justify Jinx's non immidiate suicide by sacrifice.

And aside from that Jinx's main reason to sacrifice herself was not her hamartia. That already breaks her story out of the tragic ending circle. You can't write a torture p*rn and call it tragedy. "Bad things happened because this is tragedy"

And then we look at Jayce and Viktor and while I think it's probably just coincidence, it does raise some eyebrows.

But as silverlining, I don't think the writer realized the implication and the breakdown I just gave you.

[constantlytired101]

Cassandra building the vents isn’t something that makes her iconic or amazing and one of the kind.

Omg thank you queen for providing basic human rights !!! Letting the people breathe !

That’s her job as councillor literally! When you’re a governmental it’s your job to take care of the citizens of said government.

Okay it’s a good thing better than the others but still that’s basic decency and the bare minimum.

Human rights is not a privilege.

[constantlytired101]

What’s the worst arguments you’ve heard from a fan for criticising something?

Reply in the comments or reblog

I’ll go first , when I said Vi has jail cell trauma and her having an intimate scene in a jail cell is weird, how being locked in should trigger something and its kind of shown for 5 secs after jinx left her in the cell hence punching the walls ,even Vi herself says that she spent many nights on the cold floor bloody and hungry in Stillwater that’s how bad Stillwater was it’s a very bad jail.

Someone responded saying well Vi talks to enforcers just fine so she’s over that trauma , she only complained about the guards and the food AND there are people who come out of jail and become police officers so it’s not that big of a deal plus she’s a boxer so her punching the walls is normal.

[collectivephilosopher]

1. "Forget how gas works, this isn't reality."

2. Vi would definitely have a normal independent life with independent job at the end of the series even though the show never showed that and instead implies Vi now is Caitlyn's trophy wife. And thinking otherwise is disingenous.

3. Caitlyn has apologized to Vi in prison cell because microexpression said so. Caitlyn felt bad for hitting Vi in S2E3 because microexpression said so.

4. Jinx psychosis disappear in S2 is good because her mental illness is for narrative purpose only.

5. Caitlyn suck the grey back to the vent so she's not constantly poisoning Zaun.

6. The show is called arcane so it should be about arcane not Piltover vs Zaun. It's people's fault for expecting otherwise. (Followed with) -> Critical fans just want marvel.

7. People should respect Jinx's wishes to not be stopped (from killing herself). Jinx is an adult and it's her own choice.

8. From the very start hextech is a black and white problem, it's critical fans' fault for thinking it's a gray story.

9. Zaun deserved to be gassed because they betrayed Vi and sided with Silco. Vi shouldn't feel bad for her people.

10. It was ambessa's fault. Ambessa did all the police brutality, ambessa manipulated caitlyn, caitlyn tried to stop ambessa, caitlyn never was in on the brutality happening during the martial law.

(Lmao this one is— like pick one, did ambessa manipulated caitlyn into oppressing zaun or did caitlyn did nothing and ambessa did all the work???)

[babelrevived-deactivated2025082]

ok im not the biggest timebomber but i dont think its fair to say it came out of nowhere. Like there was kind of a setup for it in s1, during the bridge fight when they took a break from killing each other to softly smile at each other :’)… and then Jinx tried to kill them both but i digress lol. The point is that Ekko smiled at her knowing full well that she was working for Silco

That said, while I do kind of get what they were trying to do with the whole alternate universe thing it was just such a lazy way to do it. A big theme surrounding Ekko and Jinx is that they are both teenagers who were forced to live in unlivable conditions preventing them from experiencing an actual childhood. And I guess with the AU they were trying to show us that with the contrast of how they live in the MU and in a universe where Zaun is free and livable. Still it really pales in comparison to the way they did it in s1. Ekko and Jinx trying to kill each other with little snippets of them playing as kids. Like it just hits you like a punch in the gut, fast and simple but the pain lingers 😭😭 I personally didnt get that feeling in the AU episode I feel like they just didn’t know what to do with Ekko

[collectivephilosopher]

I actually agree. Although I dont think it's "smiling softly". that smile is more of knowing smirk. A silent mutual understanding of, "remember this?". I really really like the idea of "nemesis for years you know each others better than anyone". Like while it doesn't open for a chance for them to be canon couple, it does open for a chance for them to team up together. They're freaky, I love it. I kinda hate how normal the AU powder ekko couple is.

[collectivephilosopher]

Zani is what Vi could've been

[limegreenbunny]

Vi and the final nail in the coffin of her sisterhood with Jinx

Much has been discussed about the controversial decision of Vi giving up on Jinx and becoming an enforcer in season 2.

I realized, upon deciding I would like to do my own season 2 "rewrite", that it was going to be important for me to strip back the layers of what Vi's real motivations are (as set up in season 1), why she would consider her sister "dead" and what should have been her driving goal going into season 2.

Vi's main motivation should ALWAYS be her sister, whether out of love or out of hate, and whether she would admit this to herself or not. That's the only way to stay true to the story and themes set up in season 1. I don't believe the writers of season 2 had a good handle on this.

So here's the big question: Why was the final scene of s1 (Jinx's mad tea party/rocket launch party) also the final nail in the coffin for Vi and her relationship with her sister?

[Note: These are thoughts I developed before s2 aired but I did know that Vi was most likely going to become an enforcer, and I will be addressing this question in regards to what season 1 set up, (not the motivations that we must haphazardly guess at based on what the writers of season 2 gave us). I want to get these thoughts down on paper in preparation for my own rewrite of s2.]

Let's explore some possible answers:

The reason can't be that she is upset over the actual act of launching a rocket on the council. She doesn't like the council or Piltover, to put it mildly.

Is it just the wanton destruction that bothers her? Vi has already seen this behavior from Jinx, and while each time it pushes her farther down the path of "my sister is gone," since this attack is, again, against Piltover, it falls a little flat that THIS one would be the last straw, even though it's the biggest in scale.

Could it all be for Caitlyn because of the the death of her mother? I think this could be part of her motivation, however while Caitlyn has made an impact on her for the short time they've known each other it's still been only a VERY short time. Not enough for her to go back on her lifelong dedication to her sister. (Yet this appears to be the only consistent explanation for Vi's actions in season 2 which just doesn't work based on what season 1 set up).

I believe there is a deep personal reason for this scene to break Vi's dedication to Powder. Vi's last interaction with Powder was to hurt her physically and even worse to confirm all Powder's worst fears about herself (when before she was always the one to keep these fears at bay). Vi became a monster to her little sister. This is indirectly explained in the scene where she tells Caitlyn about their childhood monster game (the "real monster" could apply to four different people in the scene).

Next, Vi is taken to prison. She states that the only thing that kept her going was the idea that she could get out and find Powder again, presumably to make everything right again, to live up to Vander's dying request, to reverse the moment where she became her little sister's worst nightmare.

However, prison ends up being the place where she descends into the monster again and again. The show addresses the fact that she is regularly beaten by the guards but barely touches on what is found in Vi's prison log in the Council Archives minigame, that she regularly fights with and beats her fellow prisoners in some cases beating them nearly to death. It's definitely possible that some of these people deserved it but at the same time it points to a troubling pattern of Vi allowing herself to sink to these extremes, drowning her pain in violence.

"If only I can get back to Powder I can make things right. This monster that takes over sometimes, it isn't really ME. I have a good heart, I'll prove it once I'm out of here, once I find her."

Violet's quest to save her sister is as much about her own sense of self-worth as it is about Powder.

That's the key to the final sequence. That's why the tea party, followed by the rocket attack, was what broke their sisterhood. After everything Vi tried to do for her, JINX rejects VI. Jinx can see the truth, that they can never go back, and snatches away Vi's shot at redemption and the foundation of her self-worth. Just as the old Vi whom Powder used to rely on is forever changed, the innocent little girl that Vi relied on to still need her is gone. Vi needed Powder to save her from her own inner monster. And Jinx walked away. In many ways these final moments are a parallel to Vi's "Because you're a jinx" to Powder years before. 

And this should have served as a foundation for the next chapter in their story, one where they are enemies.

[theladykalliope]

Something about Jayce having all these interesting interactions and relationships with different characters in season one (Mel, Caitlyn, Silco, Vi, Heimmerdinger, Ambessa, his mom), to having his entire character centered around Viktor in season two kills me.

We got him interacting with Ekko, and it was much more interesting and was such a break from his dynamic with Viktor; I thought they were gonna do something with it, but nothing happened. I feel robbed of the big brother, little brother dynamic they would've had.

It would've been nice to see a different type of brotherly relationship than the one he had with Viktor.

We would've seen another side of Jayce and Ekko.

[constantlytired101]

The politics with Ambessa were so interesting in season 1

I fully expected her to immediately go to Jayce as he’s the councillor responsible for hextech and she wants hextech

[collectivephilosopher]

I'm really confused why Ambessa had so much power in S2. Like for example when she promote Caitlyn as a commander over Salo. That was kind of weird, wasn't it? Salo is a councilor. He's one of the leader of Piltover. How did Ambessa, someone not even a legitimate resident of Piltover aka a GUEST was able to overrule a council member?

It would make much more sense if she stayed puppeteering in the background. Like for example. Mel is one of the greatest power in the council. Other council member seem to look at her first before voting. But Mel doesn't align with Ambessa's ideology (the fox and the wolf thing) so she turned to the second most influential figure in the council which is Jayce and then Jayce promoted Caitlyn with Ambessa's suggestion. It makes more sense because Jayce is a council member and he's close with Caitlyn. And this will solve the problem with Jayce's weird sudden switch from not wanting to use hextech weapon to making hextech weapon because Ambessa wants Jayce to produce hextech weapon so this will align with her final goal.

[zoisnottheboysavior]

Another beautiful day of hating the CaitVi sex scene because genuinely what the fuck was that 😃

I didn't process it at first because I watched it with friends and we were too busy thirsting over everyone that came on screen and dying laughing at stupid jokes we made to actually take any of it in. But after really pondering on the events of season two I was like wait a minute...that was pretty weird...

In the moment, I was kinda happy because yay lesbians! And also, this is the scene people have been waiting years for! Wow! But also, most of Vi's trauma surrounds jail and being locked away, so why would she enthusiastically have sex in a jail cell??? That's so fucking weird to me like I don't think I'll ever get over that. Not to mention the fact that Jinx, her last remaining family member, had just locked her in the cell so she could "break the cycle" and Vi wouldn't be able to stop her, the same way Vander had once locked her away to prevent her from taking the fall for the explosion in season one. Vi had to have been freaking out, being locked in like that again. But minutes later she was eating Caitlyn out and I think that was a really weird choice on the writer's part.

Not only that, but why'd they have to do it in the cell that Jinx was suffering in, the same cell where she picked the skin around her nails until they dripped blood and the same place she let her food rot. The same place she was literally contemplating taking her life in like wtf. If the writers and animators and whatever REALLY couldn't put that scene anywhere else in the plot, it couldn't have cut to CaitVi in Caitlyn's bedroom or something?

That scene just felt so out of place and unnecessary, especially considering what had just happened!

Also, I really don't like how it seemed like Vi only went down there to get Jinx to help them fight or something. She said "if you come, help use all that explosive potential of yours for good, maybe we could rewrite your story like you did with Zaun". And that was cute, but I felt like she kind of acted as though Jinx hadn't just lost Isha and acted like they hadn't just lost their dad, again. That felt so out of character for Vi, because her whole character is the fact that she has a big heart, often to her own detriment. Yet there she was, asking Jinx to help them fight. She later said to Caitlyn "I really thought she'd help" like girl be fr. Jinx genuinely saw no point in living after that (note how the strings from her top were gone and how her hair was down, probably to prevent her from killing herself somehow) so why would she want to help fight?

That whole thing was just...mmm. I just didn't like that scene or the conversation(s) that led up to it at all. The tone change was too sudden for me and the context of that whole situation + when you take into account all of Vi's trauma was just so eugh. Felt wrong to me.

[collectivephilosopher]

So Vi was trying to keep both Cait and Jinx in her life. If you watch it closely, she only opens the door after Jinx said "sure Vi". I think what is happening—considering Vi beats herself up over how Caitlyn is going to leave her after Jinx left—is that Vi thinks Jinx is supposed to be jailed but she wants Jinx in her life and she also thinks Jinx has changed for the better (the thing she told Caitlyn before) so my guess is that she's going to use "Jinx said she wants to help" as an excuse to Caitlyn to excuse Vi breaking Jinx out of prison.