Jack being so affected by both Baskerville siblings is always funny to me, because he was NOT ready for Oswald to get to him too. He got hit once and wasn't expecting the follow up punch- lmao
First Punch: some girl changes your entire worldview and gives you a reason to live, creates the feeling of being alive within you
Second Punch: some guy sees through the entire, reflective "self" you've constructed, and cuts to the truth of your being
This might sound like quite a reach, because they never even met in canon, but I feel like there's such an interesting contrast between certain aspects of Lottie and Lacie's characters. They are two Baskerville women, whose very different status in the family shapes them into almost complete opposites in terms of self-expression, beliefs, experiences and relationships.
It's just interesting to think about some of the themes reflected in their characters and what they reveal about the Baskerville family. Some messy, self-indulgent analysis ahead.
Different personas and the subversion of archetypes
It's obvious even from their character designs that Lottie and Lacie present themselves very differently - and their personas seem dangerously close to some...problematic archetypes.
They could have easily been a shallow embodiment of harmful tropes - Lacie The Manic Pixie Dream Girl vs Lottie The Femme Fatale - but that's thankfully not the case. Even with somewhat limited screen time, both are given enough depth to be complex women who defy those archetypes.
What's more, I think it's safe to say that their outward personas are also kind of an "armor" - something that helped them protect themselves and deal with their respective circumstances.
Lottie comes across as this vicious Femme Fatale with cynical views of the world and its necessity for cruelty. It makes sense that she presents herself this way. After helping carry out the Sablier massacre, having to live with the blood on her hands, having to survive in a present where her family has been brought to ruin and missing a leader...she'd definitely need to become (or at least adopt the persona of) someone a little tougher, sharper and even a little more cruel.
But she's ultimately not just some dangerous Femme Fatale and a cynic who only sees the ugly in the world - deep down, she's much more warm and caring than she seems. And by the end of the manga, it's clear that she does have love for the world too, proven by her promise to Glen.
Lacie, on the other hand, appears to be this wild and free-spirited girl, who loves the world despite its cruelty. Lacie is someone who has been branded a cursed existence and is fated to die for it - she's also someone who refuses to be defined by victimhood. She needs to be this dreamy and free-spirited girl, needs to look for meaning in her tragic life and find beauty in the cruel world around her - otherwise she'd be swallowed by despair and loneliness.
She's also much more complicated than a Dream Girl archetype and despite her love for the world, she's not really some idealist either. She bottles up her painful feelings until almost the very end, but when we do get a glimpse into them, it becomes clear that she's a lot more human and vulnerable than she seems.
The two sides of the same family
The most obvious connection between Lacie and Lottie is the fact they are both part of the Baskerville family...only their experience and understanding of "family" couldn't be more different.
For Lottie being a Baskerville is what allows her to find and create a loving family for herself, to form meaningful bonds with other people like her - the former outcasts, lost children wronged by the world, who have now found a new beginning and a place to belong. It's certainly not a perfect family, but you can tell the love, respect and loyalty between Lottie and her little group is genuine.
But for Lacie, due to her position as a Child of Misfortune, being a Baskerville could never become a salvation from being a mistreated child - it only elevates her mistreatment to a different level.
In reality, being a Baskerville is what shatters her ability to have a normal family and leaves her with a twisted version of it: a cruel father figure who willingly corrupts their relationship in a despicable way (I'll go back to this later) and a loving brother who is bound by his "duty" to become his little sister's executioner. There is no doubt Oswald loved Lacie more than anything in the world, but it's clear that her impending death at his hands weighed heavily between them and denied them the happy sibling relationship they deserved.
Loyalty, rebelliousness and who is truly free
Lacie and Lottie's personal sense of freedom and ability to think for themselves is a major theme for both characters and is (seemingly) established from their first appearance.
Again, Lacie is quite clearly characterized as someone rebellious and free-spirited. She has her unique beliefs, displaying that she is capable of thinking for herself. She doesn't simply accept things - she questions everything. Not only is this the impression you get from her, but she's directly described like this by Jack.
Meanwhile, Lottie is positioned as being extremely devoted to her Master Glen. It's not that she's portrayed as "submissive", as much as she can easily come across as something of a brainwashed cultist. She helped carry out a massacre on her Master's orders without even understanding the reason why - and when confronted about it, her response is simply that the Baskervilles are "built" to obey Glen, that's just how it is.
This sounds like a far cry from Lacie who questions everything.
But the reality is a little more complicated.
The key thing here is how Lacie and Lottie's different circumstances and status shape their personal freedom. They both exist within a system that reinforces Glen's absolute power, but Lottie is Glen's valued subordinate, while Lacie is Glen's glorified prisoner sentenced to death.
Lottie's freedom isn't being limited in a traumatizing way like Lacie's freedom has been. Like I said, Lottie found home and purpose with the Baskervilles, she wasn't being mistreated in that family, so of course she's fiercely loyal to it. Unlike Lacie, whose little acts of rebellion serve as a coping mechanism for her bleak circumstances, Lottie has little to no reason to rebel against her Master and family.
And yet, even in her first appearance (despite pretending that she doesn't mind committing any kind of violence for her Master) Lottie is clearly looking to understand the events of 100 years ago - and that already shows that she's capable of questioning things. What's more, despite the claim that the Baskervilles obey Glen by nature and can't defy him, despite Lottie's own established loyalty to Glen, she does have the agency and the ability to defy her Master.
It takes her some time to overcome her Baskerville beliefs and make the decision, but once she realizes she can't support Glen's current path, she ultimately follows her own morals and does the right thing.
And as for Lacie...for all her free spirit and rebelliousness, she has been physically and emotionally trapped by her fate, conditioned to accept it and that makes it very difficult for her to actually rebel against it. She doesn't want to die and is terrified by that fate, but she bottles it up - and it's debatable if she ever genuinely considered the possibility of running away. She seems to find the idea of running away with Jack almost laughable.
Maybe at that point it's understandable, considering her pregnancy which...made her fate even more inescapable in a way. But even outside of that, I don't think she could even begin to imagine a future where she's allowed to live her life.
Which is not to say Lacie's personal beliefs are somehow fake and should be dismissed, let alone looking down on her for not saving herself - she was a victim of a violent cycle and her personality only highlights that violent cycles are incredibly difficult to escape, regardless of how strong and free-spirited someone is.
Power dynamics, unhealthy relationships and Glen
This kind of echoes the previous point, but let's also take a look at it through the lens of Lacie and Lottie's relationships with (their respective) Glen.
Lottie's loyalty to Glen isn't something unique - it's a part of the Baskerville identity - however, she’s arguably the Baskerville whose loyalty is the most heavily emphasized during the story.
What’s more, she's implied to have some romantic feelings for her Master, which adds a unique layer. On paper, the combination of her absolute loyalty and her feelings for him sounds like it could develop into something pretty toxic. It raises several red flags - being infatuated with a man who has power over her, believing said power is absolute and cannot be questioned, remaining devoted to him even after he orders her to kill innocent people.
Meanwhile, Lacie's relationship with her own Glen is established as something very different. Lacie doesn't seem to hold much respect for his position, being comfortable addressing him informally and talking back to him in a teasing manner - and this almost creates the illusion of some kind of equality and "normalness" between them, despite their power imbalance. (To be fair, it wouldn't be completely unfathomable considering they are supposed to be family.)
But it's no surprise Lacie isn't worshiping at Glen's feet. It fits with Lacie's notorious free spirit and beliefs, already shown during her encounter with Jack as a teenager.
And what's really interesting, we see that her unique philosophy about questioning everything is the opposite of what she was told by Glen when she was a child.
At the very least she wasn't brainwashed by him - in fact, she seems pretty disconnected by the whole notion of Glen's absolute power and the need for absolute obedience, something Lottie claims is a core part of a Baskerville's identity.
The juxtaposition is so interesting, because those dynamics are rather deceptive - while Lacie's relationship with Glen/Levi is revealed to be a lot more sinister than it seems, Lottie's relationship with Glen/Oswald ends up a lot less toxic than expected.
Lacie's relationship with Levi ultimately adds another layer to her tragic fate. No, he didn't manage to brainwash her or break her spirit, but he most definitely groomed, manipulated and conditioned her to think of her death as something inevitable - and this grooming and conditioning also make it very questionable if she could actually defy him, despite her sharp and seemingly unafraid attitude.
Sadly, I think Lacie really internalized the idea that her death is inescapable, hence why she never considered actually running away. Instead, she clung to the "silver lining" of saving the Core from loneliness and while this might have brought some comfort to her, it doesn't change the horrific nature of the way Levi manipulated and exploited her. The rhetoric that she's going to die anyway, so it's fine for her body to be exploited is just so inherently dehumanizing. And it's very important to note here...the fact she probably didn't see herself as a victim in this situation and didn't behave as a "perfect victim" doesn't make it any less horrible and doesn't make her complicit in her own abuse. None of it is her fault.
On the other hand, Lottie's relationship with Oswald not only doesn't really turn into something toxic, but becomes a vehicle for her positive growth. Lottie proves that she isn't actually a cultist, a puppet, a foolish follower - or at least can choose not to be any of these things and be an individual with her own morals.
There's a lot to say about the cult-like nature of the Baskerville family and how everyone was a victim of it - that's why Lacie seems like such a unique person, but in the end, her beliefs couldn't really protect her from being victimized as a part of the cycle and on personal level. Lottie might have not held Lacie's unique beliefs, but she's able to unlearn harmful Baskerville ideas about absolute obedience and she's able to defy Glen - it helps that she was not subjected to grooming, raised as a human sacrifice or abused by Glen in some way.
I think this is a good place to note - because I know it can come across this way - that my goal here isn't to pit two female characters against each other, let alone demean either of them. The point also isn't to portray Lacie as nothing but a victim, while praising Lottie's character at her expense.
Of course, Lacie isn't "just" a victim. She remained her own person and did her best to create some power for herself within bleak circumstances. She had a lot of impact on those close to her and the world around her - and that's beautiful and important, but it doesn't make her life (and death) any less tragic.
The comparison to Lottie is very intriguing to me, because Lottie is the clearest example of a Baskerville woman who is a regular member of the family. It's not that Lottie's life is a fairy tale, but my focus is that Lottie was not treated like an anomaly, a cursed existence or a prisoner in the family. And when you look at a woman who actually found a home and purpose with the Baskervilles, who wasn't abused and oppressed in a dehumanizing manner, who had a proper support system and was treated with respect, who had actual freedom - it really highlights how much was being denied to Lacie and the horror of her fate becomes even more impactful.
Just thought of how Jack generally reflects everyone he meets, which includes Lacie.
Jack has his own reasons for staying in a limit with Lacie but I also feel as though him keeping that limit with her, not getting too close, just staying by her..is somewhat how Lacie treats herself.
Lacie is such a lonely person and I feel that reflects in Jack so well, that distance and resistance to attach perfectly shows how alone Lacie felt and how she also treated many people around her.
This can also relate to Jack being extremely close with Oswald (as well as Lacie ofc), as it can mean 1, Oswald is reflected in Jack obviously and 2, Lacie is extremely attached and close to her brother, maybe he's the only one she's ever felt close to and maybe Jack reflects that about Lacie by being so close with Oswald himself.
This is just sad to me because Lacie deserved so so so sooo much better after suffering for so long all by herself.
Pandora Hearts rots my brain because there is always something new everytime I look back
was watching this video breaking down vol. 22 of the PH manga and got stuck on this very interesting question he poses (~30 mins in):
why didn't oswald try to save lacie's life?
or, more specifically: why did oswald decide that in order to Fix Everything, he needed to kill lacie earlier rather than stop himself from killing her at all, particularly after he learned the true reason behind why children of ill omen were sacrificed in the first place (essentially to appease the jurors, who couldn't see/control them)?
to answer this, i think we have to get somewhat in-depth into oswald's motivations & relationships & POV. here's that breakdown.
first things first: oswald is a weird character. out of all of the major characters in PH's cast, and particularly those from the Past/original setting of 100 years ago, he is easily the most difficult to place or understand in terms of personality, views, etc. this is for two reasons:
jack's 100 years of intense censorship, which paint oswald as the Evil Glen Baskerville that ordered the massacre of tons of people during the tragedy of sablier.
oswald's own natural shyness and general aversion to people, which cause him to really only be close to lacie and jack (the first of whom is, of course, dead, and the second of whom does all the censorship noted in point 1).
for the entire first half of the series, we are presented an image of oswald that is a flatly evil villain, someone shrouded in darkness and mysterious red robes, in contrast w/ the image of jack as this hero of light and sparkling water and sunlight breaking through the trees. even when jack reveals that they had been friends oswald is still relegated to a position hidden in jack's shadow, true face lost to time.
our understanding of oswald therefore must almost always be taken with a grain of salt, since he is so often heavily filtered through the faulty lens jack casts on him. even so, i think we can come up with a few possible answers to respond to the Lacie Question posed above:
oswald is Panicked and Desperate to try and solve the whole "world getting chucked into the abyss problem," a SECOND time; note that he literally died in the middle of this project the first time.
in order to come up w/ the idea to save lacie, oswald would have to believe that it is possible in the first place, that there is still some Essence of Lacie that could live on. jack might believe this, but oswald definitely does not.
remember that for all the time that jack spends losing his mind coming up w/ schemes behind oswald's back to break the world's chains, oswald is mourning. frankly, he's forced to grieve lacie long before he even actually kills her. he knows, better than anyone, that she's truly dead and gone. compare these two reactions, first from jack, then from oswald:
oswald doesn't just think it's impossible for lacie to come back-- he views it as an insult, as something incredibly dangerous, to even consider the possibility of trying at all.
what i think is notable about this is that there is also yet another question hidden within the one about Lacie, which instead relates to oswald's views on his other beloved friend. specifically:
why is oswald so incredibly hurt by jack's betrayal?
again, i think we can pinpoint a few reasons behind this:
he fucking killed him.
he worked behind his back for Months to come up w/ this incredibly suicidal and violent plan, even manipulating oswald's preteen (? age uncertain) niece to go along w/ his plans.
he loved jack. lacie and jack were the only two people oswald was genuinely close to. he cared about him, was invested in or even obsessed with him, and needed his support. after lacie died, he literally had nobody else-- even levi dies shortly after oswald ascends to power. jack was the only person who could possibly understand just how significant it was to lose lacie, who could relate to his grief and mourn with him-- but he went behind his back instead, spending 100 years painting him as a murderer, a villain, pinning his own crimes onto oswald's back and perverting the natural order of the world, causing his remaining family left in the baskervilles to be cast out as evil, turning chains into weapons, and generally being the biggest menace in the entire fucking series. he betrayed him in quite possibly every avenue he had the ability to. it's frankly impressive just how much he managed to stab him in the back, literally and figuratively.
HE LITERALLY FUCKING KILLED HIM
alternatively: he's not. or rather-- oswald isn't just motivated by anger or a desire for revenge against jack when he tries to go back in time and kill an even younger lacie. he is also motivated by his own guilt.
to expand a bit more on that last point, since this shit is juicy:
oswald and lacie's relationship is slightly different than gilbert and vincent's for a number of reasons, but one of the more notable ones is that oswald & lacie seem to know a helluva lot more way earlier on than gil & vince do. levi does Not fuck around when it comes to telling lacie straight up that she is going to be killed for being a child of ill omen. both oswald and lacie are thus well aware of what lacie's fate will be long before it happens, giving them plenty of time to grieve and angst over it long before oswald actually comes to power as the next glen.
due to the manipulations/information provided by jury, oswald and lacie are also taught the typical story about the origin of children of ill omen: specifically, that they are deviations that are created due to the birth of a new glen.
together, these two points lead oswald towards one bitter conclusion: that He is the reason behind lacie's existence, and therefore it is his responsibility to deal w/ her properly.
the fact that oswald & lacie are Brother & Sister and that whole gendered dynamic really adds to this point, honestly. lacie is treated like a problem child, a capricious, fickle, devil-may-care little girl that needs to be locked away in a tower for safety but breaks out to play around outside anyways. she is objectified and infantilized by most if not all of the people closest to her, treated like something dirty and evil by jury, like a literal experiment by levi, and like a inhuman goddess and representation of salvation and perfection by jack.
oswald is not freed from this-- for all that he does genuinely love his sister, he also views lacie like a Problem that He needs to fix, and takes responsibility for her actions as a reflection of his own failures. when lacie acts out, oswald internalizes that as his fault for not controlling her better. he is quite literally groomed into believing this by jury, to the point that he goes through with the sacrifice and kills her, even when he expresses clear regret and grief over it before, after, and during the ritual itself.
and on top of that, as a part of this ritual, oswald is also crowned king of the baskervilles, given an incredibly important position within the family and role in taking care of the abyss. he is more responsibility than man by the time he becomes glen, having to take care of Everyone and Everything mostly on his own, his mentor and dearest sister dying all so that he can take the fucking job.
thus: when jack starts acting out, when he loses his mind over the loss of lacie and tries to throw the world away to compensate for it, oswald interprets this as A Lacie Problem and therefore his job to fix. as incredibly unintentionally cruel as it may be, i think oswald genuinely views jack's betrayal as Lacie's Fault, and therefore his own responsibility since he is the one who supposedly Created lacie in the first place. Your Sin Is Your Very Existence-- lacie should not have existed as a child of ill omen, it was a problem that she was alive, and it's all oswald's fault for creating her so it's his responsibility to kill her properly. so he has no other choice but to forcibly take over leo's body, go back in time, and Save Everything. lacie cannot be saved because her existence itself is the heart of the issue. without lacie, jack would not be saved. without lacie, oswald would never have to meet him, or love him, or be betrayed by him. without lacie, oswald could grow up and never have to kill his beloved sister. the world's chains would not be broken, the natural order would not be tainted by a desperate man's suicidal insanity, if only the problem were not created in the first place.
but then... he sees her.
and how could he possibly go through with this a second time?
Today I offer you: Lacie in outfits from different eras. Not really historically accurate, but I tried to keep the general vibe. From left to right: Rococo, Empire/Regency dress, Victorian ball gown, something 1890th but a mix of male and female attire because why not.
Also I’m kinda thinking about “what if Lacie didn’t die” AU, which will NOT make any sense, but I want it, so… this is what she would wear ig
But actually it's insane to me that people shit on Ace for being upset at the insults thrown at his dying father. He did what both Luffy & Roger & so many others would do in his situation. Luffy has literally gone after someone for insulting the people he cares about multiple times.
So many peole whine about Oda not killing characters or lack of "tension", but the minute he actually makes the characters have realistic outcomes these same people lose all respect for them??
It's always "Wow look how loyal they are! How honorable!" until their willingness to die actually ends up with them dying for it?
Lastly, Ace didn't die because of "rage bait", Akainu attacked Luffy! He could've avoided injury since he's a Logia but he took the hit for his BROTHER! Why tf do some people in this fandom clown him for that? Is he just supposed to let Luffy die?? Is he supposed to be like Garp?
If Ace could've walked away so could Luffy. BOTH of them were warned!! BOTH of them were not being "rational"!!
I mean, Luffy lets his guard down to get Ace's Vivre card. What about THAT is smart!?
So do we seee how that doesn't really matter at the end of the day? How the level of criticism put on Ace isn't fair or accurate?
And yes, Garp 100% could've prevented Ace's death, but refused to do anything substantial. Fuck that guy!
GREETINGS EVERYONE!!! I've spent the last couple of months working on a full length comic adaption of @goodlucktai's beautiful 'fishbowl' fanfic!!! Below you can read the fruits of my efforts :) Enjoy!
Hi I can’t sleep do you ever think about how Lacie and Jack genuinely did love each other even if they weren’t sure what that meant and despite all the horror that came with their relationship their was love their. Jack’s attachment to Lacie doesn’t make sense if he doesn’t both love and hate her. Jack loathes Lacie for making him love her. He hates that she made him feel warm things and hates that she made him want to live but he also feels so trapped by her. He’s scared of her and feels like he’s her prisoner and Lacie’s memory haunts Jack. He’s in agony over feeling like he’s a puppet in her hand that controls his every move because he can’t live without her and needs her like a drug addict and it makes him so utterly sick to his stomach. But he did love her. It’s so incredibly messy they’re both so traumatized after a life of abuse they could never express it to each other properly. On top of how their CSA trauma distorting their perception of love as both of them were horrified at the possibility of the other wanting them.
Jack’s view of Lacie is kinda demonized and tampered with his own self loathing but not entirely divorced from truth. Lacie likes being in control of him (when they met at first at least) not a desire fully consciously realized as Lacie dissociates from her negative emotions Lacie enjoyed having someone to play with, who’d want her; someone who’d allow her to further bury and relive some of the pain in her heart by turning her attention to them and preforming this mystified version of herself in front of them. While I don’t think Lacie’s feelings ever reached Jack’s levels of hatred and toxicity there was always a bit of pettiness I saw within. Her goodbye to him that wasn’t even a proper goodbye is quite interesting. A mix of her not having the courage and trying to downplay her bond with him. And also trying to indirectly hurt him for making her fear her own death because she wanted to stay a live and be with him more. She to blames him for making her want to live. And she’s embarrassed about how she desires to chase after the person she wanted to only chase after her but never step over that boundary. A part of the reason she never communicates her wants to Jack is she’s horrified of the idea of him wanting her and is put off and, perhaps even scared of the side of him she detects as “not quite right”. In fear of being wanted and seriously chased after; and objectified. She talks about how if Jack ever came to desire her like *that* she’d immediately push her away and would much rather prefer their status quo relationship. Because Lacie doesn’t want to confront herself or her feelings. On top of how she’s never been treated as a person and always something to be feared mixed with Levi sexually grooming her she’s worried Jack will end up just like them if she opens up. And that terrified her. She wants to keep the Jack she knows in her memory and then erase it all into a million pieces with her death. The possibility of rejection makes her feel utterly lonely
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