I will never stop saying Finnish idioms translated directly into English. I’m not quite yesterday’s grouse’s son level but I will always mention a line drawn in water and how a beloved child has many names…. Eventually those grouses will be brought up though
In English, "a line drawn in water" definitely sounds like a metaphor someone would use, but it's not a common saying. It kinda scans as a playable on "drawing a line in the sand" which means "this is the farthest we'll allow something to go, any farther and there will be consequences". So calling something a line in water might read as "a pointless/toothless declaration."
"A beloved child has many names" sounds like wisdom from a grandparent, though I can't say I've ever heard it before.
Now I'm curious about the grouses, though.
Oh wow!! I’m gonna be so real, I always thought that “a line in the sand” meant the exact same thing as “a line in the water”, which I can now see that it does not. A line in the water means something wibbly wobbly, not truly concrete! Because I am a fish person, the best example of a line drawn in water I can think of are the definitions of a salmon and a trout: salmon migrate to saltwater, trout stay in freshwater….. until they don’t. Many freshwater salmon populations exist, many saltwater trout populations exist! There is verrry little difference as the groups are not monophyletic either.
A beloved child has many names isn’t really an idiom like the rest but it’s an (ironic) exclamation you can say if something has many names. I like saying it. :) Yesterday’s grouse’s son is somebody who is naive, think born yesterday. Most often you hear it when someone exclaims that they are NOT yesterday’s grouse’s son!
For the last one, in French we say "être né de la dernière pluie" (to be born of the last rain). It's also typically used in the negative : "Je suis pas née de la dernière pluie!"
I really like that idiom!
I really like the finnish version too! Might start using it in french. "Pas la fille d'une gélinotte née hier" ? Maybe "Pas la fille de la gélinotte d'hier" ?
Oooh!! Even more fun (to confuse everyone)! Let’s mix it up a little: “Je suis pas née de la dernière pluie” can be ”Minä en viime sateesta syntynyt!”
Okay now I know nothing about Finnish. But given your translations I think sateessa isn't the right declination (are those declinations?).
The french version is definitely not "ne pas être né pendant la dernière pluie", though it could be interpreted that way. To me it always read as literally being born from the rain, like Aphrodite being born from blood touching the ocean. in which case sateen aikana wouldn't be the best translation either, but that one definitely isn't incorrect.
Two other tangential points
Am I correct in assuming that "syntynyt" means "not be born"? Verb in last position? In which case "yt" is a negative suffix maybe??
Also I remembered we have another similar saying in France, though it's much rarer (at least where I live). "Prendre quelqu'un pour un lapin de six semaines", to take someone/confuse someone for a six weeks old rabbit. It's kinda the other way around, applies to the person assuming the other is naive/an idiot. But if you were to say "Ne me prenez pas pour un lapin de six semaines", it'd be functionally equivalent to "Je ne suis pas née de la dernière pluie"
Ahaa! Then, good old sateesta is the best choice as the elative case.
“Syntynyt” means “born”, as in about a person! What makes it “not born” in this sentence is the “en”, albeit because “from last rain” (“viime sateesta”) is in between the two parts it’s not intuitive to infer if you don’t know the language. I could have very well said “Minä en syntynyt viime sateesta” — it is grammatically correct all the same — however, the changed word order sounds more natural to me, and dare I say, more defiant and on the offence! “Not born” can also be a single word, “syntymätön”, but you wouldn’t use it in this sentence (and to be frank, doesn’t sound so natural! But we do make all kinds of funny words from adding suffixes. “Kuuntelisitko?” “Would you please listen (to me)?”
Hahaa I am learning even more!!! Six week old rabbits are quite naive, they were probably born from the last rain…
This rules. How many cases does finnish have? Is it 11, or am I misremembering? Suffixes are so cool, too.
Do you have any way of explaining why syntymätön doesn't sound natural in that sentence? Or is it just an instinct thing?
Finnish has 15 cases! Because there’s a bit I’m not listing them here lol. What about French?
As for syntymätön, while functionally it is “born + negative suffix”, it’s like saying unborn! “Unborn from the rain” is not a very good way to express the thought ^^’ There’s not really an easier way to express not having been born as a singular word, you’re better off with two
French, like most romance languages, doesn't have cases (anymore). We have "compléments", which are sentence component blocks typically marked by words like connectors and prepositions. These descend from latin cases, but merged during the language's history. Now there's basically only one case, nominative.
