Snowden did nation a service, ACLU head says by Chad Abraham, Aspen Daily News Staff Writer Friday, July 19, 2013 Printer-friendly version Email this Story Edward Snowden, the former National Security Agency contractor who leaked classified information about the governmentâs massive domestic surveillance efforts, did the country a service, the head of the American Civil Liberties Union said in Aspen on Thursday. Anthony Romeroâs comments came during an Aspen Security Forum panel discussion that included federal prosecutor Neil MacBride, who last month charged Snowden for violating the Espionage Act. The discussion of Snowden provided the sharpest exchanges among the panelists at the Aspen Institute event. âIâve been watching this whole debate about Edward Snowden,â Romero said. âI think he did this country a service ... by [jump-starting] a debate that was anemic, that was left to government officials where people did not understand fully what was happening.â There is now a vigorous public debate, six lawsuits about the NSA program have been filed, and Congress is holding hearings about the issue, he said. But Panelist Jeh Johnson, former general counsel of the Defense Department, countered that he thinks itâs a âbad message for us to send to people who decide to take the law into their own hands that theyâre doing a public service.â Romero pointed out that the ACLU has sued âseven times to try to get this surveillance program before a proper court,â so the legal channels have not worked, he said. âSince we had no proof we had been surveilled, we had no standing. It has not been for a lack of trying, Jeh Johnson,â Romero said. The courts are where these debates belong, Johnson said. âAnd the only way we can get before the court, the only way we have standing, is because ... Mr. Snowden fixed my standing problem,â Romero said. âOur democracy, regardless of whether you think he broke the law, and our country is better as a result of the revelations.â âThatâs anarchy,â Johnson said. âThat is not anarchy,â Romero said. âThat is Daniel Ellsberg,â who released the Pentagon Papers about governmental decision-making on the Vietnam War. Another panelist, former congresswoman Jane Harman, said she is not pro-Snowden. While she said she believes that, by and large, the press is responsible on national-security matters, when covert sources and methods are revealed, it can result in people dying. âThey can also result in our capability going forward against a target, letâs say the Iranian nuclear program, being compromised,â she said. âIt is certainly not OK with me to have published information that reveals sources and methods. âIâm extremely worried about some of the Snowden stuff that hasnât come out yet, which may endanger some sources that we have in our current efforts to keep America safe.â Chris Janjic/Special to the Aspen Daily News A panel discussion titled âCounterterrorism, National Security, and the Rule of Lawâ took place at the Doerr-Hosier Center on Thursday afternoon as a part of the Aspen Security Forum. Seated from left: Mike Isikoff, NBC News National Investigative Correspondent; Raj De, National Security Agency general counsel; Neil MacBride, U.S. Attourney for the Eastern District of Virginia; Jeh Charles Johnson, former Department of Defense general counsel; Jane Harman, head of the Woodrow Wilson International Center for Scholars; and Anthony Romero, executive director of the American Civil Liberties Union. Raj De, the general counsel for the NSA, avoided mixing it up with Romero. He said he strives to ensure that the NSAâs surveillance programs are lawful and as transparent as possible. He emphasized that while the NSA collects the phone numbers that Americans have dialed, and the date, time and duration of the calls, the content of the calls is not collected without a warrant. Without such a program, the effort to locate terrorists would face many more obstacles, De said. The panel was moderated by NBC News correspondent Mike Isikoff, who asked Romero whether De has a point that there would be too many hurdles for law enforcement to track terrorist threats without the NSA program Snowden revealed. âNo,â Romero said. The ACLU believes the NSA program is illegitimate and illegal, he said. Collecting every phone call made to and from American citizens cannot be relevant to a foreign intelligence, terrorism or espionage investigation, he said. âIt defies knowledge or understanding of the word ârelevantâ when you are collecting every single phone call,â he said. And Romero also said the parameters of the NSAâs data collection can tell a great deal about the content of Americansâ phone calls. He said that he has phone numbers of numerous people, or their relatives, that the U.S. government has targeted for terrorism-related prosecutions. The ACLU has represented many of them, including 9/11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, and âas an American citizen, I have a right and an expectation that my communication with individuals for [whom] I am doing my zealous work to defend their rights ought not to be intercepted under any program.â Harman called Snowden âself-centered and narcissistic,â and said his leaks could compromise ongoing investigations. And Snowdenâs seeking of asylum from other countries because he feels heâd be persecuted in the United States were he to return is âtotally nonsense,â she said. âA lot of Americans support what he did. He should come back and face a fair trial.â But Romero brought up the case of Bradley Manning, who leaked classified information to the Wikileaks website and is now on trial for aiding the enemy. His treatment before trial was torture, Romero said. He also said, mentioning attendees of the forum who are members of the British Parliament, there are now questions of whether the U.S. governmentâs actions ârun afoul of the way we interact with our allies. âI think we are better off today, now, knowing about the NSA program than we were back in March,â Romero said. MacBride closed the panel by saying that while he canât discuss his prosecution of Snowden because it is an ongoing case, the Justice Department does not pursue whistleblowers. [email protected]
