I saw a post about Liam alluding to issues between Hal and Alogar on Beacon, which makes me think Alogar wanted to join the rebellion, wasn't allowed because he was too young, and grew bitter when he learned about people like Azune and Tunk. This in turn makes his positive relationship with Julien even more of a comedy goldmine.
Alogar: On one hand, I wish I'd been allowed to join the Torn Banner when I was 15. On the other hand, I'm glad I didn't have to fight you.
Julien, nodding sagely and missing the point: I would've kicked your ass.
I'd imagine that for the Runjiani, who have the collective memory of being owned by Azgra, with little choice but fight in endless war for an afterlife of pain, the notion of a magical item that suppresses your personhood and uses your body to its own ends is a pretty awful concept.
Particularly when you learn more about the artefact and learn that the suppression and torment inside is an active choice, when you watch the bodies waste away because the artefact doesn't see the point of feeding them or caring for them.
Do you think Thjazi ever looked at the victims left behind and saw the tortured bodies of Merzhad's rebellion that he was trying to save? Do you think he looked at those malnourished people, who had been living in an apartment filling with food that rotted whilst they were unable to reach it, and saw the shadow that hung over the city? Do you think he ever sat in one of Hal's theatres, looking at the stock characters of pantomime masks, and wondered whether the halflings had used the only thing their shaper would truly look at to kill her, her own reflection?
What an awful thing to happen in a city of free people, who have fought so hard for the freedoms they hold. What an awful thing to learn that the artefact has a consciousness too, and is also a free person, but only when subjugating and destroying another. What an anathema to the idea of liberty.
Bolaire is the death penalty given personality at worst, an out of body experience at best. So difficult a concept to chew on, especially for a man who believed that nobody should be owned or controlled against their will. They called the followers of Sylandri flower dolls - pretty things to be shaped and played with as they followed the lines she put in their mouths - it is not hard to see that Bolaire does the same, only no autonomy remains, even when he is being kind.
What a character to chew on. What a character to chew on
also yeah i know i joked about him being in a bad mood bc he got yelled at by yanessa, but i really can't overstate how much learning about koral's death is the primary cause of primus tachonis' terrible horrible no good very bad night
like okay, yes, yanessa chewing you out was bad. learning you lost your druid prisoner is very bad. having to pay out 30 million gold pieces is extremely bad. returning home to one of your worst enemies in your courtyard actively destroying your house is at least a solvable problem? (rip hannan)
but also you made very clear that the survival of your house is your number one priority, and you know how precarious that survival is. that's why you're doing all of this, because if you rule everyone both alive and dead then you face no risks!!
and now, of your 8 children, you have a maximum of three viable heirs. (i say maximum bc we don't know shit yet about kids 4 and 7)
ethrand has gone from kid number 6 to second in line!! trimus doesn't appear to have any kids and segundus only has two that he hasn't personally murdered, so your siblings' lines of inheritance are just as precarious. and while the other sundered houses right now are too scared to act against you, you know full well the second you let any weakness show they're gonna eat you alive
so perhaps ironically, if you can't secure your position on top of this crumbling pyramid soon, you face the exact same extinction event that you just brought on royce
An ongoing theme, with regards to the gods (as opposed to Predathos and the Imperium) is that of free will. The gods are stringent in collecting on promises made, and the Betrayers will use initial consent as license to act freely, but itâs notable, in a campaign where nearly all the main player characters are shaped by entities that never once gave them a choice, the gods require an invitation. Except, worryingly, Predathos, a being of nigh-divine powers who does not seem bound by this limitation. And, of course, mortals can do as they will.
When Lolth overtakes Opal, the fact that Opal assumed both the crown, and the title of champion, willingly, is repeatedly mentioned, in DM narration and by Lolth herself. Lolth also mentions to Dorian, (perhaps untruthfully, though the events of EXU indicate this might be genuine), that she wished for him to become her champion instead - but he did not put on the crown, so she canât have him. Obviously, Lolth takes many liberties with Opal once given entry, but she can only speak to people or act through someone who has permitted her. We see this too with Asmodeus: it is ultimately Zerxusâs choice not to walk away and face his death, but make good on his pact; some degree of initial consent is needed. Kânauth and Judicators are also both explicitly described as voluntary: once permission is given, they are bound, but this is no different than the contracts of warlocks and notably, with the gods, while weâve seen them make deals under dire straits, weâve never seen such unwitting participants in their pacts as Fjord with Ukâotoa or Laudna with Delilah among the gods. All entered in control of their faculties, to our knowledge, though not necessarily with the full knowledge of what it entailed.
The Prime Deities are differentiated from the Betrayers in that they continue to provide free will to their champions and their faithful. The Raven Queen accepts Vaxâs trade of his life for Vexâs, given without any direct communication from her, but she quickly does begin to communicate clearly; when Vax communes with her in Duskmeadow, she tells him what she wishes, putting him much more at ease. Later, after his death, she gives him an option to either remain dead, or to have a little more time left with Keyleth, Vex, and the others of Vox Machina before he completes his task and returns to her, and he makes a choice. When Morrighan asks for guidance, the Raven Queenâs response is to ask âwhy are you fighting, and what are you fighting for?â and stresses that she wishes to lay out the exact terms before Morrighan agrees to anything. When Percy asks her what to do she, ironically enough for a goddess of fate, tells him he possesses the capacity to do great things of his own accord. All of Vox Machinaâs divine favors come willingly, only after a conversation; the Wildmother first reaches out to Fjord before he decides to accept. And mortals have the capacity to resist even these promises; Opal is only partially successful but she does not give the Spider Queen two deaths and she does not leave alone. Fyâra Rai finds herself able to go against Lolthâs wishes even when the Wildmother does not wish to intervene; it is her choice not to kill Opal but to go with her.
When mortals express doubt in the gods, itâs typically not their actions. Itâs because they donât think they meddle in the matters of mortals enough. As mentioned, Percy struggles with the open-ended nature of the Raven Queenâs advice. Essek, frequently considered an âanti-godâ character is actually quite mild in his doubt and ultimately more frustrated at the clerics of the Kryn Dynasty than the Luxon itself (put a pin in that). Ludinus Daâleth states the gods should have prevented the Calamity, despite us knowing that the Prime Deities avoided intervention and that ultimately, while the Calamity had a number of causes, mortals (Vespin, Laerryn, much of the city of Avalir) were at the root. Ashton and Imogenâs frustrations with the gods have both ultimately been that they asked for assistance and did not receive it.
The extension of the Prime Deitiesâ belief in the free will of mortals is sufficiently strong that even during the Age of Arcanum, when many mortals rejected them, and when they did not require mortal intermediaries, they still chose to preserve it until the Calamity began. Each major action by the gods as a group is ultimately one to preserve themselves (the sealing of Predathos; the destruction of Aeor; the current campaignâs truce) or to preserve mortals (the Primes during the Schism and in creating the Divine Gate).
Contrast this with Delilah, who seizes control of Laudna and who is never stated to have asked permission for any of her actions. Compare to FCG, designed by Aeorians to lose control and kill. Compare to Chetney, bitten by a werewolf in the wilderness (and the others of the Gorgynei as well) - indeed, what control he has is the legacy of magic granted by the Raven Queen and by a nature spirit tied to the Wildmother. Contrast this now with Predathos, whose Ruidusborn had no say in this connection and indeed, many are motivated in service to Predathos with the goal of freeing themselves. Enforcers within the Kreveris Imperium refer to themselves as The Will, and Elder Barthie refers to those who oppose them as being made âpliableâ. Chetneyâs loss of control under Ruidus is deliberately triggered by the Weave Mind, with whom he made no deal.
If we (in my opinion, rightfully) reject any argument that denies the right of sentient entities to self-preservation, we are left with the following accusations of the gods: failing to stop wrongdoing by mortals (both in their name and unrelated); and acting in accordance with pre-existing agreements. The latter we can also reject; it is not perhaps kind of the gods to hold people to their contracts, but this is not unique to them and as discussed extensively above, they do require that, at least initially, the promise be made willingly.
The former, unfortunately, will not be stopped by destroying the gods. Ultimately, such people as Tuldus, BorâDor, and the people of Hearthdell were oppressed by their fellow mortals. In-world, we have seen zealotry in the name not just of the Prime Deities but that of countless lesser ones, notably Ukâotoa; if only the Prime and Betrayer gods are at stake, this simply creates a power vacuum to be filled by other entities vastly more powerful than mortals. On the other hand, should all power-granting entities be devoured, setting aside the upheaval this will cause in society, this leaves no shortage of room for oppression on the basis of race or political affiliation, both of which weâve seen. The TalâDorei Campaign Settingâs original incarnation, prior to the further development of Wildemount for Campaign 2, even stated the Dwendalian Empire forbade all religion and was still an authoritarian one. Colonization is the end goal of the Weave Mind and indeed the motivation for killing the gods per Edmuda. It also is not unheard of on Exandria for reasons not attributed to religion, notably the settling of the Menagerie Coast by Marquesians, and TalâDorei (formerly Gwessar) by human settlers from Issylra. And, of course, as we know in our real world, you do not need provable deities for religion to develop nor for colonization and oppression. Mortals do these things in reality and Exandria, whether or not the gods exist, and destroying the gods in Exandria achieves no prevention, only carnage.
Returning, finally, to Essek: when we look at the major characters who are PCs or are aligned with them who have expressed frustration with the gods, the only one who has much of a case for being influenced by the actions of a deity is Percy, who is staunchly on the side against Predathos. One could split hairs and note that Vecna was not a deity at the time of the murder of Percyâs family, his own torture, and the destruction and occupation of Whitestone, but rather merely a power-hungry wizard extending his lifespan via unscrupulous means, but Percyâs own choices render this moot. Meanwhile, the gods simply did not alleviate Imogen and Ashtonâs experiences, both of which were in part due to powers caused by entities the gods, in fact, failed to sufficiently destroy (Predathos and KaâMort specifically) and mostly perpetuated by mortals reacting to Imogenâs abilities or Ashton finding themself orphaned on the outskirts of a notoriously rough city and later, caught as the fall guy in a failed heist by a morally questionable wealthy collector.
It is my belief that Keylethâs anger is, on some level, extended towards someone who canât respond nor change and who she feels she cannot be angry at, and that is Vax. Vax made the deal and the Raven Queen collected; Vax decided to take the Raven Queenâs second offer. He was forced into neither, and as discussed later, he likely would have responded poorly to a True Resurrection attempt given his faith. Vax is dead because of Vecna, but neutralizing Vecna didnât fix it. I think Dorianâs anger at Lolth meanwhile is valid, but itâs also something Iâd imagine he feels he cannot direct towards Opal, even though her actions are a part of it. And Iâm sure both Keyleth and Dorian blame themselves, to an extent, whether or not that is rightful. The gods make just as convenient a scapegoat for those hurt by mortals as they do an excuse for cruelty. But I donât think killing them will bring back Vax, and certainly not Cyrus. Much as Derrig and Will and four other Ashari lie permanently dead at the hands of Otohan Thull despite her demise, and Orymâs trauma remains, killing the gods will not undo what happened to Imogen or Ashton. And since their main crime is considered to be inaction, killing them does not end suffering (and, indeed, should we dig into the infrastructures of Exandrian society and cosmology, may very well drastically increase it). It merely confirms that no one will receive their favor rather than only some; a bringing everyone down to your misery rather than striving to elevate all. An apt, if slightly tongue-in-cheek comparison to the real world is the fact that the cause of student loan forgiveness has been hamstrung and neutered by people furious that, since they didnât receive help, no one else should - it is a self-centered and retaliatory mentality to lash out so far in jealousy that one would willingly destroy the life of another with the goal of increasing universal suffering.
Sources:
Timestamps available upon request but here are the episodes Iâm drawing from. Printed works include pages.
Lolth, Opal, and Dorian: see 3x92-93; see also EXU Prime episode 8, EXU Kymal episode 2 for Opal willingly accepting and EXU Prime episodes 5 and 7 for the Spider Queen trying to get Dorian to put on the circlet.
Kânauth: EXU Calamity episode 2
Asmodeus and Zerxus: EXU Calamity episode 4
Judicators: 3x43
The Raven Queen and Vax: notably 1x44 (initial deal), 1x57 (Duskmeadow communion), 1x103 (her offering him the choice to pass or to become a revenant). Percy is also in 1x57.
The Raven Queen and Morrighan: 3x93.
Vox Machinaâs divine favors: 1x104-1x106
Fjord and the Wildmother: 2x65; powers granted in 2x76.
Fyâra and the Wildmother: 3x93
Essekâs feelings: see the final portion of this excellent post from essektheyless
Ludinus on the gods: 3x45
For causes of the Calamity, see EXU Calamity in its entirety, but Vespin specifically is episode 4, many of Avalirâs actions (including ignoring the hall of prophecy) are episode 2, and Laerryn denying the Arboreal Calix needed energy and casting Blight are in episode 3).
Ashton on the gods: 3x65
Imogen on the gods: 3x79
See page 12 of The Explorerâs Guide to Wildemount regarding the Prime Deitiesâ choice not to enforce their will during the Age of Arcanum.
Sealing of Predathos: 3x43; destruction of Aeor: EGTW 121; Truce mentioned in 3x67 and has appeared in 3x89 (Vezoden) and 3x92-93 (The Wildmother and Lolth).
Schism: EGTW 12; Divine Gate EGTW 13-14.
Delilah seizing control: 3x23
FCGâs design: 3x32 and 3x45
Chetney and Gorgynei (history and control): 3x40-41
Weave Mind control of Chetney: 3x91
Goals of Ruidusborn: multiple but see 3x48 and 3x89, 3x92 for a strong example with Liliana.
Actions of Ukâotoa: much of Campaign 2 but notably 2x98 and The Mighty Nein Reunited.
Original description of the Dwendalian Empire: TalâDorei Campaign Setting (not Reborn) page 99
Goals of the Weave Mind: 3x85
Colonization of the Menagerie Coast: EGTW 17 (largely a peaceful one); Colonization of TalâDorei: TalâDorei Campaign Setting Reborn page 18 (explicitly stated to be against the wishes of the elves; led in part to the rule of Drassig and Scattered War).
Percy and Vecna: Vecna ascends in 1x106; the events of the Whitestone Occupation begin prior to campaign 1. Percy is in multiple war councils against the Vanguard and notably appears in the plans for a distraction to allow Bells Hells to take the Bloody Bridge in 3x81.
Imogen and Predathos: the revelation that Predathos may be within exaltants comes in 3x92; 3x83 and 3x87 both have involuntary experiences due to Predathos and see Lilianaâs arguments in 3x48 as well as Imogenâs discussion of Gelvaan.
Ashton and KaâMort: emotional fallout most notably in 3x78; Evontraâvirâs description of what happened with the shard in 3x74. Memories of the Hexum Manor heist can be seen in 3x35.
Evidenced by the official character art, Luis used "medium-brown" to describe Azune's skin as a tone between "medium" (one step darker than "fair") and brownânot "medium brown" as in a shade of brown between light and dark
That's not an excuse to paint Azune like a buff Caleb with sunset eyes, which way too many fan artists have done. If you have an aesthetic instinct to make him lighter than he is, you should interrogate that instinct
You may will the Stone to participate in this ritual, the one that made you and Hannan weep with its beauty, that is against the wishes of the Shaper that forged this stone. You may also, through your devotion to the path of the Sisters of Sylandri, have the Stone do what it was supposed to do, which is ferry the souls of the elves to their afterlife. You may, in this moment, find those members of your family in the Tenebral Reaches, and bring them to Faerie, along with yourself, which I need to state would be the same as dying.
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