god it's hard to tell because of the lighting here, but her expression when she thanks Kris for walking her home is so loving it hurts.
I don't want to hear a single thing about how she's replacing or abandoning Kris, you look at her face and tell me she has any intention of ever doing that.
I think the thing which really intrigued me about the core conflict of chapter 5 -- between the bouquet (as led by Flowery) and the Fun Gang (as led by Kris, sure, but in this case Ralsei is taking ideological point) -- is the fact that the Fun Gang are inevitably going to end up on the other side of it. Hear me out on this one.
The bouquet's motive, and therefore their strategy, is two-pronged.
1. They want to keep Asgore happy, which is sympathetic enough in and of itself; that being said, their strategy on this front is probably the most 'villainous' thing they directly do, insofar as aiming to replace his entire Light World life is just obviously unhealthy. So long as they can keep Asgore happy, though, they also implicitly have (his) permission to keep the Dark Fountain open, which leads to:
2. They want to maintain their own agency, and that requires keeping the Fountain open, and THAT requires fighting the Fun Gang. This is the part which comes across as less villainous and more noble to me, despite the fact that -- like everyone else who's opening fountains for their open purposes and risking the Roaring -- they're playing with fire.
On the face of it this could be read as more 'sympathetic motive, misguided actions'. And maybe it is, but what they're fundamentally trying to do is fight the basic facts of the prophecy, which prescribes that the Fun Gang will beat them on their path to the end of the story. They're aware of this: at multiple points Flowery alludes to the fact that he's trying to defy fate, prominently when talking to Ralsei at the spring ("It's because you wanna see if I can win, right?"). The thought process I figure Flowery has had is this: if he can break fate in the first place, then he and the bouquet will definitely be able to create a happy ending no matter what the initial fallout is. After all, at that point they would've already defied the odds and done the hard part. Flowery even indicates that he's already planning on the appearance of the Knight ("It's nothing we can't handle on our own.").
To return to the point, isn't this what the Fun Gang is going to have to do anyway? After all, Susie immediately decides to try and avert the Final Tragedy at the end of chapter 4, and Ralsei reveals that that's been his intent the whole time. During the Flowery fight, they can comfortably fight with the Prophecy at their back because it's not yet time for the Tragedy, but once they're there a similar conflict has to occur, and this time they'll be on the side against fate. What Flowery understands better than the Fun Gang is that if you're going to fight the odds anyway, then you've gotta go all in. Ralsei *wants* to break the prophecy, but at the same time they're afraid that breaking the rules will result in something even worse (they points this out in his argument with Flowery on the stairs, but also at the end of a Weird chapter 4). It's not an unfounded fear, per se, but it does mean the Fun Gang's not prepared to take drastic measures.
This is what Flowery consistently tries to get through the Fun Gang's heads, particularly Ralsei, once they indicate they're not going to give up. In fact, if you fail to hit the final blow on Flowery during the sword clash, he demands Kris stand up and keep fighting instead of taking the opportunity to cement his victory. Consider it in concert with what Gerson teaches the fun gang: 'a blank page is an invitation to write', but that means not knowing what comes next. What Flowery tries to impress on the Fun Gang is that the opportunity to write is still worth it. The question that remains is if they're going to be able to fight with the same desperation when the time calls for it.
Impulse analysis 6/27/26 : Deltarune, Fun Gang vs. Ch. 5 antagonist
Spoilers for deltarune, Chapter 5. Don't hit "Keep reading" if you don't wanna get spoiled. please
Just beat the final boss. Really sick stuff
This comment (found on RetroSpecter's Flower Man cover) not only nicely summarizes the foiling between Flowey and Flowery, it also brought up how Flowery knew his goals (of upholding the world he thought would be ideal) would mean going against the prophecy, and in turn, futile in any and all attempts.
When reading it, a thought hit me: don't Susie and Ralsei want to go against the prophecy as well?
(Screenshots taken from BornLosersGaming; if they don't want these to be used, I'll take them down)
This is especially brutal because Susie only learned about the story's end, decided to defy the ending (whatever the ending may be), and because Ralsei had regained hope once seeing Susie's optimism, all within just the previous chapter. With the ending of Ch. 4 not so far away from meeting Flowery, Susie and Ralsei are very eager and wanting to prevent how things are said to end, much like Flowery.
(Well, Susie more than Ralsei, as Ralsei is still hesitant on whether defying fate is possible, as much as he'd want to believe in it. Still, Ralsei has desired the idea. A little more on him later.)
In trying to keep Asgore happy, in trying to defy fate, Flowery met resistance from what the prophecy considers the main heroes (and in turn, the prophecy in general).
At best, Flowery got a bittersweet taste of what it'd be like if he got his way. At worst, he was proven wrong and was killed not long after.
We don't know the end yet, but let's say, in trying to prevent a death, a sacrifice, or whatever the end entails, Susie & Ralsei will certainly meet resistance, not from themselves/the main heroes, but from the prophecy in general. How much will Susie & Ralsei hurt or lose before they meet an end?
If Flowery's goals went against fate, what will make Susie & Ralsei's goals, which are also against fate, any more promising? What struggles will they face that Flowery didn't?
For this chapter specifically, Susie and Ralsei are rewarded for being themselves because they're the main heroes of the prophecy, not Flowery. When the last few chapters roll around, and when the ending draws closer, what excuse will the heroes have?
Before Flowery's last attempt at his wants, there is also a point made about the power of friendship, both at the beginning and end of the final fight.
While it is played for laughs and attacks here (because ""flowers can't make friends!!!111!!1!!!111!" and stuff), it could very well be a warning sign that friendship may not always work fast or well enough against whatever/whoever the prophecy brings. Ralsei himself even brought up this idea in Ch. 1 and 4
(More screenshots from BornLosersGaming, go check them out, their playthrough is great; again, will take these down if they're unwanted)
Friendship didn't work for Flowery, what would make friendship work for anyone else? Can friendship really override fate?
I would talk more about Kris here, but the bolder conflict in this reading between the Fun Gang vs. Ch. 5 antagonist is of facing fate, not carrying out fate. Fundamentally, Flowery and Kris's goals and actions are completely different here.
There could also be something said about Pink/Mew Mew, but I've yet to beat her fight. All I could think of is that one's body, mind, and spirit could be in conflict, and this could get in the way of one's ability to strive towards a goal, let alone dealing with fate.
Very glad we got another look at her character though!
If I'm wrong about anything, or if there's anything I missed here, feel free to let me know
(Though, please don't spoil the end of Pink's fight, or the weird route! Just thought I'd let these thoughts out now, even if they're incomplete)
TL;DR: thank you for this comment bc it made me realize Flowery is also a foil for Susie and Ralsei directly after Chapter 4's ending. I am scared of what's to come.
i've always thought it was particularly interesting that wily decided that the very first mega man killer had features resembling close to a human. human-like face. human-like anatomy.
all three mega man killers are humanoids for sure, but it feels incredibly deliberate that the first had to be human-like. why not an air man-type body, instead? with how wily chose the designs for the second-line to be less human-friendly and more power-based than that of the first-line (even accounting for the inspirations, for instance, with how elec man's design inspired quick man's), wouldn't he instead do something bulkier and less human-like to make the ideal robot who would dispatch mega man? what, and how, would having a human-like countenance contribute to the killing of mega man?
maybe, you could say, he got a little too inspired by light's design philosophy at first, before de-prioritizing people-friendliness over sheer power... and that would be that. and that makes sense; the robot masters that he's ever created have been bulkier and beefier in weaponry, and that's even reflected in the progression of the mega man killer designs, somewhat.
i think there's more to that.
enker's special weapon is the mirror buster. its function is that it redirects residual energy absorbed by enker (albeit taking damage from it too) towards the target in a wave form traced by the tip of his barrier spear. that residual energy maximizes from mega man's buster shots, which he also takes damage from according to the damage chart for enker in dr. wily's revenge. (*)
i will be honest: i don't think the mirror buster really serves its purpose of killing mega man that well. it seems more of a defensive weapon rather than a directly offensive weapon, and enker makes that up with these acrobatics that actually costs those health points more. when i played dr. wily's revenge and got face to face with enker for the first time, i accrued a lot of damage not from the waves he sends back at me (which i could easily jump), but with from colliding with him in that little cramped gameboy screen space, where mega man's jump has a height that barely skirts the tip of enker's head spike.
so this makes it even more curious: if the mirror buster seems really counterintuitive to enker's purpose, then what was wily trying with that? wily had intentions with that choice of special weapon, as he certainly did when he chose a human-like design for enker! so, then, what are those intentions?
okay, this is where it gets into headcanon territory. i think enker's design is supposed to be a symbolic middle finger at light, were he to be successful in dispatching mega man.
in particular, i think enker is supposed to be a hypothesis for wily to test the following: that the way to defeat mega man IS to mirror him, or well, mirror something like him. we can see this with the mirror buster: it produces the largest wave when enker exclusively absorbs the mega buster shots. thus it's really to mirror mega man's attacks back!
wily has already attempted at verifying this hypothesis at least once with copy robot, who is exactly in likeness to mega man himself. when that didn't work out, well, i think wily still held onto that hypothesis in a different form: rather than fully copy mega man, he was trying to isolate the parts of what made mega man so powerful himself, and see if those parts can be used against him.
so, i think he started out with the human-like features like appearance and AI, where, in a sort of roundabout way, that if his first mega man killer started out as a well-developed human-like AI (with all the packages of emotions, experiences, and autonomy on the level of blues, rock, and roll) then that can be used and developed into an efficient machine to defeat light's well-developed human-like AI who just turned out to be a really good at battling. and if that were successful, then i think wily could rub that in light's face.
(that didn't work out, so wily developed mega man killer number two, punk, who is without the human-like features, and not at all a mirror of mega man.)
i could even go a step further and say that wily based enker off of blues, judging from the musically-themed name and the connection. (**) i'm sure he was well aware of blues's existence around mega man 1, since sniper joes appear in bomb man's stage and sniper joes are repurposed service robots based off of proto man. it wouldn't be uncanny if wily extended that inspiration of blues from the sniper joes to enker himself.
i could say more about that and where that leads into enker's development and how that affects him (listen i think enker is a very significant project, on par with how important blues, rock, and roll are to light, and that there's something to the expectation of being mega man's killer that deeply hurts him to the core, and how i headcanon him to be extremely parallel to blues, and so on and so forth) but ok that's enough typing my hands are tired and i am draining. i just really wanted to ramble about this. wheek wheek
(*) i think it's particularly funny that enker is damaged by nothing other than the mega buster in both dr. wily's revenge and mega man v. listen i tried sending mars' photon missiles to his way when i played mega man v. nothing. nada. he is impervious to stardroid weapons and weak to mega arm, which is crazy. maybe that's worth another exploratory essay in another time...
(**) the genres of enka and blues are really similar (thematically and melodically, each using a pentatonic scale). in fact, some of the stylistic origins of modern enka can be traced to jazz and blues, due to the sudden popularity of these genres during and after the occupational period for japan, led by the utagoe movement and the jcp
For anybody not caught up: Tennessee just passed a new map that pretty much makes it so black neighborhoods have no power in local votes. Two things about this. While protestors were chanting "No Jim Crow", white Tennessee lawmakers were caught laughing on video. On top of this, Representative Justin Pearson and his brother KeShaun Pearson were arrested for trying to give their takes on the matter (which is not only their legal right but literally his job). If you give a shit about black people, help fight this. We can't allow a return to Jim Crow.
As an autistic person myself, I think things like this are so great in normalizing it to children and helping it become more understood as a whole! I think the rep in this doll is especially good to autistic women and girls, whose diagnostics are often overlooked.
Also her design is adorable!! I love that she was designed by an actual autism organization to feel more true to the material. One of my favorite aspects has to be her slightly off-centered eyes, showing trouble with eye contact, something myself and many others like me also struggle with.
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