Kya

[far-away-sea]

This fandom drives me crazy. What do you mean Targaryen either have to be all good people or all bad people? How come we can’t analyze them as PEOPLE, with some of them being morally grey, good or bad? It’s especially jarring how GRRM is praised for writing morally complex characters but we have to make an exception for the "all evil" Targaryens.

[belladonnafeli]

The Others and the wights are the most blatant slavery allegory ever 😭the others that have an army of undead thralls that can never be freed unless with fire. And Daenerys is freeing slaves with what? Fire. It blows my mind that people don’t see that

[paladinadonevoeiro]

It's impossible to ignore the connection, this is an actual quote from an actual Daenerys chapter (believe it or not people will twist it around to show that this is a sign Daenerys is delusional and crazy and that the dragons will be useless but okaay):

That night she dreamt that she was Rhaegar, riding to the Trident. But she was mounted on a dragon, not a horse. When she saw the Usurper's rebel host across the river they were armored all in ice, but she bathed them in dragonfire and they melted away like dew and turned the Trident into a torrent. Some small part of her knew that she was dreaming, but another part exulted. This is how it was meant to be. The other was a nightmare, and I have only now awakened.

(I think I first came across this interpretation with Phoenix ashes videos a while ago)

[ilynpilled]

i dont think i like reading them as an allegory for slavery and the enslaved? what is actually being said about the subject and liberation with that and with the constraints of that allegorical set up? how is “liberation” being framed through that? also, what is being said that is not already being said with the actual slavery in the story?

not to mention george’s own words re allegories:

Finally, in a stunning revelation, when an audience member put the ridiculous question, "JRR Tolkien strenuously denied that his books were in any way an allegory for World War II, have you ever been accused of writing about climate change by proxy? You know, it being a bit of a thing in your works, the long Winter?" George replied, "No, I haven't, not until now," and continued, "Like Tolkien I do not write allegory, at least not intentionally. Obviously you live in the world and you're affected by the world around you, so some things sink in on some level, but, if I really wanted to write about climate change in the 21st century l'd write a novel about climate change in the 21st century. Sometimes things happen that are hard to believe. You have to remember I've been writing these since 1991, in a couple of the recent books Daenerys Targaryen wielding the massive military superiority offered to her by three dragons has taken over a part of the world where the culture and ethos, and the very people are completely alien to her, and she's having difficulty ruling this land once she conquered it. It did dawn on me when George W Bush started doing the same thing that some people might say, 'Hmmm, George is commenting on the Iraq War', but I swear to you I planned Dany's thing long before George Bush planned the Iraq War, but I think both military adventures may come to the same end, but it's not allegory."

via

[belladonnafeli]

Firstly, grrm can say he didn’t intentionally write an allegory and I believe him, but people are still allowed to read things as an allegory. Secondly, the wights are essentially zombies and the folklore of zombies is directly tied slavery. It is Haitian folklore, but most zombie shows have completely divorced zombies from their origins, so it’s not a stretch at all to make this comparison. In Haitian folklore a zombie is a dead body reanimated through magic by a bokor aka a sorcerer. The wights are reanimated corpses so they are essentially being denied death aka access to whatever afterlife they believe in. This is something that comes up in Elden ring which grrm wrote for. The death rune is sealed and people cannot actually have a true death and in order to stop this cycle of undeath they burn the erd tree. This is obviously different than the enslaved that are alive in Essos. The solution isn’t to use fire on the enslaved, but on the masters. Also just for clarification I am of Caribbean descent so I don’t want people thinking this came out of nowhere, I’m just making a connection from my own background.

[pessimisticpigeonsworld]

https://www.tumblr.com/radicalsansa/739060101195907072/if-youre-looking-at-hotd-through-a-medival

😨

How exactly does GRRM want us to look through a "medieval lens"? Does he want us to look through a medieval lens when we're watching underage girls be married off and suffering marital rape? Does he want us to look through a medieval lens when soldiers rape and pillage innocent smallfolk? Does he want us to look through a medieval lens when tyrannical kings are supported just because they took the throne?

GRRM's books may take place in a medieval-esque world, but that doesn't mean he wants the audience to support the atrocities normalized by a medieval society. He uses his setting to criticize the actions of the medieval world.

He uses Daenerys' campaign against slavery to show the monstrosity of the slavers and those who stand by allowing it. He uses Sansa's treatment by Joffrey to show the hypocrisy of the order of knighthood and medieval chivalry. He uses Jon's treatment in Winterfell to show the harm of bastardphobia. He uses Arya's time among the smallfolk to show how the petty wars of lords impacts the people. He uses Brienne's life to show the damage the patriarchy does to non-conforming women. He uses Rhaenyra's story to show the far-reaching harm to the world the patriarchy causes. He uses Barristan Selmy and Jaime Lannister to show the dangers of blind loyalty to a king.

We the audience are not supposed to justify a character's actions just because it was normal for the time. That's like justifying Thomas Jefferson's owning of slaves because it was the norm for rich men in Colonial America. We are supposed to be horrified with the world's treatment of people who don't conform to it. We are supposed to feel angry at the normalized and rampant injustice. We are supposed to acknowledge that, while the books (much like the world) are filled with people who do the wrong thing, the characters are not all equally bad.

This post was deleted since I started writing this a few days ago (so sorry it took me so long to finish this answer), but the gist of it is that TG is right because of the medieval standards of Westerosi society. In the case of Rhaenyra, like I said earlier, GRRM uses to Dance to show the damage of the patriarchy and male primogeniture. The dragons are wiped out because of TG's greed and sexism. The realm suffers thousands of deaths because the greens couldn't stand a woman, a non-conforming woman no less, to take the throne. GRRM doesn't want us to just nod along and say, "oh that's fair, after all it is normal for the time :)". No, we are supposed to see the injustice of the situation and the harm that injustice causes.

[lives4lovesworld]

all targ antis are acting like rejected incels; constantly running their mouth no one ask or cares for, recirculating whatever anti theory and nonsense woke buzzwords for the millionth time like anyone cares, inventing and canonizing their pathetic headcanons and then unironically turning whatever irrelevant bitchass fave they have into a Targaryen OC with AUs of them getting dragon eggs, being secret half Targaryens, dragonriders, getting all of Daenerys forces and prophecies + dozen atrocious ai edits of olivia or sophie in an elsa wig like pls 🤡

[spectrum-color]

aSoIaF is such a weird fandom sometimes because in every other fandom, all men have to do to develop a devoted following of shippers is be in a scene together, while in this one, Jon is in a literal all male order surrounded by men with close emotional bonds with several guys but people choose to pair him with his female relatives instead.

[jackoshadows]

I think with respect to the m/m shipping, the biggest ships are usually between main characters. There are Jon/Satin and Jon/Tormund ships but since Satin and Tormund are not main characters, the ships are also not as big. I maybe wrong but I feel like Robb/Theon and Theon/Ramsay and Theon Greyjoy in general has the most m/m ships which is interesting.

Samwell Tarly is the other main character at the Wall and, unfortunately, for the slash shipping contingent (And the m/f shipping contingent) he is not hot or charismatic enough as a character to make for a popular ship (GRRM complained abt this very thing).

Secondly, Incest is acceptable romance in the world of Asoiaf. Which is why folks complaining about incest shipping in this fandom doesn't make a lot of sense to me when the author is out there writing statements like this:

It's especially hypocritical when pretty much ALL the ships in this fandom are problematic in one way or another and applying some kind of moral high ground is simply ridiculous.

Thirdly, in general there's not a lot of shipping Jon with tertiary side characters in the series. It's why even Jon's m/f ships at the Wall - Jon/Val or Jon/Ygritte - are equally as small. Jon is even shipping himself with Val in the story itself and yet I hardly come across Jon/Val shippers. So it's not just that there is less appetite for m/m ships at the Wall - there is generally less appetite for Jon/anyone at the Wall.

It's the same with Daenerys and her coterie in Essos. Not as much shipping with her side characters going on. Again, I think it's got to do with fandom being mostly interested in MAIN characters and then shipping them together. This is why Dany/Sansa seems to be a popular f/f ship - Sansa in general is the fandom bicycle who gets shipped with everyone.

Related to this, Jon's main ship is not even for and by book Jon Snow fans - it's Sansa fans who come up with bizarre anti-Dany (political!Jon) theories (There's one on the tag right now!) and are not interested in Jon's story at the Wall. Many of them have written on how Jon's story is boring and just filler until he meets Sansa.

Notice how Jon Snow's ship up there is the only crackship of the three? So the reason it feels like there is so much Jon Snow shipping is because of this particular crackship.

Take out Jonsa, and I feel like the Jon Snow shipping with Daenerys is actually comparatively minimal considering these two are lead characters and age appropriate teenagers with parallel arcs and a lot of foreshadowing.

Jon/Arya is basically non-existent - I think there is more Jon/Satin than Jon/Arya out there (I maybe wrong but on Tumblr at the least it feels that way) and the main Arya ship is Arya/Gendry as it should be based on what's happened so far in the books.

So I think the reason for what you are seeing is that shipping in the asoiaf fandom in itself mostly revolves around Sansa and Jaime/Braime.

[marwyn]

Do you think Jon’s preference for GNC women could come from internalized feelings of unworthiness around noblewomen, where he subconsciously removes them from the realm of possibility instead of desiring what he feels he can’t have?

This is a common talking point among those who want Jon and Sansa to end up together in the books and it generally strikes me as wishful thinking. To begin with, gender-nonconforming women and noblewomen aren’t mutually exclusive categories (as Jon well knows thanks to Arya, and he’s also aware that Maege and Dacey Mormont “had joined the Young Wolf’s host” (ADWD, Jon I); on the flip side, he must have encountered plenty of gender-conforming lowborn women at Winterfell too), and the implication that the former are really just consolation prizes in view of his status is pretty antithetical to much of what the series is saying in general and at some particularly relevant instances—e.g., in my opinion it’s not for nothing that his biological parents were none other than the Prince of Dragonstone and a noblewoman whose first meeting came about because she had pretended to be a man and completely trounced every jousting opponent sent her way!

[jackoshadows]

One of the worst aspects of this crackship is the constant attempt to rewrite Jon Snow as self loathing and having low self worth when that is the complete opposite of the proud, ambitious, ' I deserve it all' character in the books. He thinks Arya is the best and deserving of the best, that Sam has as much of a role at the Wall than any one else, that Satin is deserving of being a steward, that Wun Weg Wun Dar Wun has a place in Westerosi society, that Leathers should be Master-at-arms at Castle Black, that Spearwives can defend a castle and so on.

At one point he is even like 'I DESERVE Winterfell and I could marry VAL and have babies with her !!' - the Val who has stabbed people in the neck and who he describes as lethal. It's clear they have not actually read the Jon chapters because some of his opinions of girls who fit into Westerosi patriarchal ideals are not great and bordering on sexism.

Like I always say, the character assassination of the book characters and rewriting them as side props whose entire existence revolves around Sansa is why the fans of those characters mock this obnoxious crackship.

[myimaginationplain]

can I be honest. not once in my many years of being an asoiaf fan have I ever actually encountered somebody who thinks that Arya is destined to be Sansa's bodyguard. based on how relentlessly people complain about that idea you'd think it were one of the most common headcanons in the whole fandom, but I've genuinely never seen a single person say they think that's gonna happen

[jackoshadows]

What?

Haven't you heard of the TV show? One of the most popular shows in the world where we explicitly see the misogynistic rendition of this trope by Benioff and Weiss, who proclaimed that Sansa Stark was their favorite character and wrote in shite dialogue like this -

When in the books -

If you want variations of this in fandom, then here, you go - since you haven't even seen a single person, here are more than 1000 fans who love the idea of Arya being Sansa's bodyguard.

It's not just Arya as Sansa's bodyguard. We have Arya as Sansa's spymaster, Arya as Sansa's war chief etc. Posts from folks who have probably never read an Arya chapter and think she is only good for doing spywork or fighting while Sansa is the brains.

Go check out any Jonsa fanfic on A03 with QITN Sansa and Arya will be pretty much depicted as a henchwoman, taking orders and killing people for Sansa.

More broadly, the popular Sansa stan fanon of Arya's end game being just 'sailing away' on adventures, when she has been desperately trying to get home to her family and her brother over 5 books, is based on the need to kick Arya out of Winterfell because they know that GRRM has written a narratively rich arc for the character that's about changing the world for the better and making place for the underdogs and outcasts and they instead want that for Sansa because it fits into their idea of what a female leader should be like.

Just going back to your tags -

Why not have Arya as the Wardeness? Arya actually has the leadership arc in the books, the understanding of how Winterfell works from her father, follows Northern justice (Man who passes the sentence) and in ADwD we see how important she is to the North as a whole.

And that's the problem.

[jackoshadows]

Jon Snow X Sansa Stark x The Royces

Sansa about Waymar Royce when she knew him -

Sansa about Jon Snow when she knew him -

Sansa about Arya - 'She even looked like Jon, with the long face!'

Sansa about Arya -

Waymar does come across as a character Sansa would fall in love with - he was brave no doubt, the classic high born hero of the songs. He was also arrogant, the common men laughed at him and mocked him in private, having no respect for him as a leader.

Meanwhile when Jon gets elected Lord Commander -

Waymar Royce and Jon Snow have zero in common, from their upbringing to their personality.

PS: When I was googling Waymar Royce to get the relevant quotes, ALL the search results that showed up were Jonsa posts ...

JONAN THE BARBARIAN 😭😭😭

Waymar Royce is a badass, fun character for the cool introduction to the world and the threat from beyond the Wall and yet all he is now known for on the internets is crackship idiocy. Poor Waymar.

[alinahams]

what's your opinion on Aegon iii and Jaehaera? Or just Jaehaera in general? Helaena and her children. How would you want them to end up if you had your way?

I have absolutely no thoughts about Jaehaera. I really don't care for her because there's nothing to her. She's an empty blank slate and I don't care much for those types of characters.

But on her marriage to Aegon, it was doomed to fail. Aegon would've never been with her or wanted kids with her. If I really let my mind wander, I think he'd still have ended up falling in love with Daenaera. He never consummated his marriage so it was basically non existent by Westerosi standards so I think he'd just end up setting her aside and marry Daenaera. And no, I don't think anyone would give a fuck. Nobody gave a rat's ass about Jaehaera.

I don't hate Helaena, but I don't care for her. Call me cruel, but I'd still want Helaena and her kids to be gone. I'm not dumb enough to believe the Hightowers or Greens would have stopped so long as they had even a single male Green heir alive. That automatically means Jaehaerys and Maelor had to die. Jaehaera could be alive but she's useless in every way. So Helaena's kids were doomed from the very start. She herself was doomed by her mother, brother, grandfather and husband and there was no chance for her either. It's sad but I wouldn't change it.

[cloudyysworld]

The greens love to talk shit about Aegon III and Daenaera but still shipping their irrelevant girl with him like I know you want Daenaera's place so fucking bad stop pretending you don't 😭😭😭

[drakaripykiros130ac]

Let’s face it, when GRRM wrote the ending of the Dance, he put a pause on the whole Aegon and Jaehaera union, and realized that something was not right here.

Sure, it’s an “arranged marriage for peace” trope like the one from The Wars of the Roses…but kind of unnecessary (since the Blacks won), and also kind of disappointing because it sends the following message: “Usurpers and traitors should be rewarded.”

Otto and Alicent Hightower wanted their bloodline on the Iron Throne. They schemed, seduced and then started a whole war for it. Making Jaehaera queen (and have her potentially give birth to Aegon’s children) would give these two opportunists a win.

And then he thought about Aegon III, a broken child, forced in wedlock with the girl of the mad usurper who murdered his mother right in front of him.

And then, GRRM asked himself, who would deserve the honor of being Aegon III’s Queen and mother his children?

1. A girl from House Velaryon, a House who has always been on the side of the Blacks (even after Rhaenyra’s death), and fought for the true heir to the throne honorably and faithfully?

or

2. The last girl from the defeated enemy party, who had Hightower blood coursing through her veins?

The answer is pretty clear. And as such, thinking about granting Aegon III happiness, GRRM created Daenaera Velaryon, the always smiling little queen, who contributed to healing the boy’s broken heart.

This is why Daenaera Velaryon is Aegon III’s true wife and Queen in canon and why her presence in his life is essential.

[aurabora]

sorry to be the bearer of bad news but if you think aegon iii would have “healed from his trauma” with the daughter of his mother’s murderer then you’re delulu. the boy who wore black all his life? the boy that gave away jaehaera’s doll the first chance he got? the boy that was so discomforted by jaehaera’s presence that the maesters even noted how he was less discomforted by myrielle peake’s presence than jaehaera? it’s fine to have headcanons or whatever, but seriously. aegon iii would sooner ride a dragon than “heal” with the girl he was forced to marry.

[dwellordream]

I think it’s very interesting to see the difference in speech patterns among the Free Folk, and how Gilly, who Jon feels he must force himself to avoid sympathizing with, is characterized as speaking like this:

"You do the same, m'lord," said Gilly. "You do the same for t'other. Find another wet nurse, like you said. You promised me you would. The boy . . . Dalla's boy . . . the little prince, I mean . . . you find him some good woman, so he grows up big and strong."

While Val, who he associates heavily with his longing for Winterfell and acknowledgment as one of Ned’s legitimate sons, is shown to speak in a much more ‘refined’ manner through Jon’s eyes:

“Free folk and kneelers are more alike than not, Jon Snow. Men are men and women women, no matter which side of the Wall we were born on. Good men and bad, heroes and villains, men of honor, liars, cravens, brutes … we have plenty, as do you."

I just find it interesting that Gilly is given the accent and speech mannerisms of the smallfolk, while Val is in Jon’s eyes, a stately figure who refers to him not as ‘m’lord’ like an inferior but as ‘Jon Snow’ like an equal.

Yet there is no real difference in birth or status between Gilly and Val. Gilly simply had the misfortune to be born to Craster’s Keep, while Val seemingly grew up in a much more healthy and stable environment. Gilly is deemed a whore and an eternal victim for the abuse heaped upon her, but Val is seen as a leader among her people and akin to a southron lady.

I think it’s a very interesting question of whether or not Jon would have treated Val the same way had it been her in Gilly’s position, if he would have addressed her as her lord and forced her to burn herself on a candle, or threatened to see her son dead himself if she did not go along with his plans.

Val is permitted to make speeches about the cultural clash between peoples, while Gilly is continuously shamed, scorned and derided by those around her, even when they have good intentions like Jon.

[ladyofchroyane]

dany

look at her arm. it turned out soo good. like it’s literally the best arm i’ve ever drawn

[afrosamucryyy]

Rhaenyra the Cruel (commission❤️)

[jaenarra]

Helaena Targaryen

Please don't use my art without credit

«Though plumper and less striking than most Targaryens, Helaena was a pleasant, happy girl, and all agreed she would make a fine mother.»

«And so she did, and quickly. Barely a year later the fourteen-year-old princess gave birth to twins, a boy she named Jaehaerys and a girl called Jaehaera.»

«And in 127 AC, Princess Helaena gave birth to his second son, who was given a dragon’s egg and the name Maelor.»

«Helaena flew Dreamfyre, the she-dragon who had once carried Rhaena, Maegor the Cruel’s “black bride”. »

«Princess Helaena brought her three children to visit with the king in his chambers. His Grace gave the babe a pearl ring off his finger to play with, and told the twins the story of how their namesake Jaehaerys the Old King had flown his dragon north to the Wall to defeat a vast host of wildlings, giants, and wargs.»

«Princess Helaena was breaking her fast with her children when the Kingsguard came to her … but when asked the whereabouts of Prince Aegon, her brother and husband, said only, “He is not in my bed, you may be sure. Feel free to search beneath the blankets.”»

«Queen Alicent, beloved of the smallfolk, placed her own crown upon the head of her daughter Helaena, Aegon’s wife and sister. After kissing her cheeks, the mother knelt before the daughter, bowed her head, and said, “My queen.”»

«Cheese bound and gagged the Dowager Queen. Then they settled down to wait, for they knew it was the custom of Queen Helaena to bring her children to see their grandmother every evening before bed.»

«Blind to her danger, the queen appeared as dusk was settling over the castle, accompanied by her three children. Jaehaerys and Jaehaera were six, Maelor two. As they entered the apartments, Helaena was holding his little hand and calling out her mother’s name. Blood barred the door and slew the queen’s guardsman, whilst Cheese appeared to snatch up Maelor. “Scream and you all die,” Blood told Her Grace. Queen Helaena kept her calm, it is said. “Who are you?” she demanded of the two. “Debt collectors,” said Cheese. “An eye for an eye, a son for a son. We only want the one, t’ square things. Won’t hurt the rest o’ you fine folks, not one lil’ hair. Which one you want t’ lose, Your Grace?”»

«Once she realized what he meant, Queen Helaena pleaded with the men to kill her instead. “A wife’s not a son,” said Blood. “It has to be a boy.” Cheese warned the queen to make a choice soon, before Blood grew bored and raped her little girl. “Pick,” he said, “or we kill them all.” On her knees, weeping, Helaena named her youngest, Maelor. Perhaps she thought the boy was too young to understand, or perhaps it was because the older boy, Jaehaerys, was King Aegon’s firstborn son and heir, next in line to the Iron Throne. “You hear that, little boy?” Cheese whispered to Maelor. “Your momma wants you dead.” Then he gave Blood a grin, and the hulking swordsman slew Prince Jaehaerys, striking off the boy’s head with a single blow. The queen began to scream.»

«Strange to say, the rat-catcher and the butcher were true to their word. They did no further harm to Queen Helaena or her surviving children, but rather fled with the prince’s head in hand.»

«Though Blood and Cheese had spared her life, Queen Helaena cannot be said to have survived that fateful dusk. Afterward she would not eat, nor bathe, nor leave her chambers, and she could no longer stand to look upon her son Maelor, knowing that she had named him to die. The king had no recourse but to take the boy from her and give him over to his mother, the Dowager Queen Alicent, to raise as if he were her own. Aegon and his wife slept separately thereafter, and Queen Helaena sank deeper and deeper into madness.»

«Only two mature dragons remained to defend King’s Landing … and Dreamfyre’s rider, Queen Helaena, spent her days in darkness, weeping, and surely could not be counted as threat.»

«King Aegon II did not die, though his burns brought him such pain that some say he prayed for death. His wife never so much as made the attempt to visit him, so lost was Helaena in her own grief and madness.»

«Helaena Targaryen, sister, wife, and queen to King Aegon II and mother of his children, threw herself from her window in Maegor’s Holdfast to die impaled upon the iron spikes that lined the dry moat below. She was but one-and-twenty.»

«The rumor of Queen Helaena’s “murder” was soon on the lips of half King’s Landing. That it was so quickly believed shows how utterly the city had turned against their once-beloved queen. Rhaenyra was hated; Helaena had been loved. Nor had the common folk of the city forgotten the cruel murder of Prince Jaehaerys by Blood and Cheese. Helaena’s end had been mercifully swift; one of the spikes took her through the throat and she died without a sound. At the moment of her death her dragon Dreamfyre rose suddenly with a roar that shook the Dragonpit, snapping two of the chains that bound her.

[puddingdemonlair]

Daemon Blackfyre and Visenya Targaryen

(+ some info)

Hi hi, I'm back with more Visenya stuff 🥰! I drew both Visenya and Daemon recently but I made more proper portraits for a family tree i want to make with their kids. With both parents complete, their first born Aemon is up next.