Honour and Glory

Now featuring: MORE DEATH, MORE BRUTALITY, And MORE EXPLAINED STUPIDITY Than ever before. This blog will try to update every Tuesday and Thursday. No promises though.

[waroftheposes]

There is a dead man who lies by the ships, unwept, unburied: Patroclus: and I will not forget him, never so long as I remain among the living and my knees have their spring beneath me. And though the dead forget the dead in the house of Hades, even there I shall still remember my beloved companion.

Achilles, Iliad Book 22 (via waroftheposes)

[oedipusmotherfuckingtyrannus]

THE ILIAD: BOOK XV

ZEUS WAKES UP, SEES HECTOR BLEEDING ON THE FLOOR AND SHOUTS AT HERA FOR BEING EVIL. SHE IS. SHE’S FUCKING EVIL.

AND THEN THE GODS HAVE A FUCKING MASSIVE ARGUMENT. AGAIN. THE RESULT OF THIS IS THAT APOLLO COMES DOWN TO THE BATTLEFIELD AND TELLS HECTOR TO MAN THE FUCK UP AND GO AND KILL SOME GREEKS.

HECTOR MANS THE FUCK UP AND GOES AND KILLS SOME GREEKS. A LOT OF GREEKS. HE’S ON FUCKING FIRE. LITERALLY.

[oedipusmotherfuckingtyrannus]

THE ILIAD: BOOK III

THE ARMIES MARCH AT EACH OTHER FOR A BIT, AND THEN THEY STOP TO MAKE PLANS.

HECTOR, PARIS’ BROTHER AND PRETTY MUCH THE ONLY CHARACTER WITH ANY SENSE, TELLS HIM HE’S A DICK (HE IS) AND THAT LIFE WOULD BE EASIER AND LESS SHITTY IF HE WAS DEAD (IT WOULD BE).

PARIS RESPONDS WITH “NO FUCK OFF I’M TOO SEXY TO MAKE FUN OF”. WE TOLD YOU HE WAS A DICK.

THEN HE ARRANGES A DUEL WITH MENELAUS, BECAUSE STEALING HIS WIFE WASN’T ENOUGH AND NOW HE WANTS TO KILL HIM TOO. THEY HAVE A BIT OF A FIGHT. IT’S SHIT.THEY KEEP MISSING. THEN MENELAUS GRABS PARIS BY THE HELMET AND STARTS SWINGING HIM ROUND AND ROUND HIS HEAD, WHICH STARTS STRANGLING PARIS. EVERYTHING WOULD BE A LOT LESS SHIT IF HE SUCCEEDED, BUT OF COURSE HE DOESN’T. THAT WOULD BE TOO FUCKING STRAIGHTFORWARD, AND THAT’S NOT HOW THE GODS WORK.

APHRODITE MAKES PARIS INVISIBLE AND THE TWO OF THEM FUCK OFF BACK TO TROY, LEAVING MENELAUS STANDING THERE WITH AN EMPTY HELMET LIKE THE CONFUSED MOTHERFUCKER HE IS.

THEN APHRODITE DUMPS PARIS IN HIS BEDROOM, WHERE HELEN TELLS HIM SHE WISHES HE WAS DEAD. BUT THEN THEY HAVE SEX SO IT’S NOT ALL BAD.

[whatshouldwecallhomer]

How I feel when Odysseus makes irresponsible life choices:

[whatshouldwecallhomer]

Penelope when the suitors are being particularly obnoxious:

[emedeme]

This is supposed to happen the first time Persephone is back to the Underworld….so I went and made a sequel for a comic that hasn’t even happened yet. Wibbly wobbly timey wimey….

Did I regret anything? No. No I don’t. 

on deviantart

[chenisthebestkitty]

._.

He kidnapped her

Against her will

Thanks fo her father after her father raped her

She starved herself to get out of his place

where do people read romance into this, where??ßß1ßewkofp *flops over*

[emedeme]

Thanks for continue to focus on the kidnapping part which is not the point of this myth. 

Life and Death, the balance between them and the changes they cause, and the origin and meaning of the seasons cycle, on the other hand, are the real points. 

Thanks for also persisting in the idea of Persephone as a passive figure. Kidnapped, raped, silenced, with no saying or power over anything (except for maybe starved herself because there are so many different versions of this myth that it’s difficult to keep track of them, did you know that apparently there is a version where she and Hades plot together?)

Thanks for also forgetting that she’s a goddess on her own and becomes Queen and Hades’ equal and actually they’re most stable marriages in the myths. 

Thank you, you’ve enriched this post by telling me things I already know but I don’t care about. (◡‿◡✿)

[latining]

Reblogging for the bitchin’ commentary and also to add that if anyone wants to read the most current (and IMO accurate) studies on Greek mythology and women’s lives, Women in Greek Myth by Dr. Mary Lefkowitz is invaluable (and incredibly inexpensive for an academic book).

The confusion comes from “Zeus” which is almost a title for a supreme god (think of the way “Caesar” was used). So you have Heavenly Zeus and Infernal Zeus, and they are not the same god but rather the supreme ruler of the sky and underworld, respectively. Likewise Persephone became known as “Infernal Hera” and this naming scheme persisted well into the Roman Empire, where Pluto and Proserpina are referred to as “Infernal Juno” and “Jupiter of Dis” in Book 6 of the Aeneid as well as on many grave monuments and in spells.

Moreover, gods don’t need to eat. Persephone refusing to eat was her refusing to become a part of the Underworld, not her attempting to starve herself. The gods are defined as being deathless, and in Ancient Greek “deathless” is synonymous with “god”. (Cf. Theogony, Works and Days, any of the Homeric Hymns, etc.) The Homeric Hymn to Demeter is really clear about this. (HH 2 370-4, 393-403.)

The marriage of Persephone and Hades is actually the most loving and consensual union among the Olympian deities. Hades first offers a dowry designed specifically to please Persephone (HH 2 10-14.), then carries her off and keeps her as a guest of honour in his house. (HH 2 341-345) Persephone is referred to as αἰδοίῃ παρακοίτι - his reverent wife. “Reverent” here refers to a respect for one’s duty, and the similarity between the pronunciation of αἰδοῖος an “Hades” is deliberate and intended to show how well-matched they are. Persephone misses her mother, yes, but is not overly upset about her marriage to Hades. Even Anchises expresses more regret over his union with Aphrodite. (HH 5 185-190.) Finally, as a proper parent, Demeter is rewarded for giving up her daughter, and offers a gift to the other gods in turn. (HH 2 441-495.)

It is worth noting that Demeter is given a position of remarkable power in this myth and is in many ways treated as or better than a father would be. The focus of the hymn remains the relationship between mother and daughter, and emphasises that it is a bond that can endure even after a woman leaves to marry. More importantly, the Homeric Hymn to Demeter is an etiological myth for the Thesmophoria and the Eleusinian Mysteries, a woman-only festival and the most enduring mystery cult of the ancient world. HH 2 serves to anchor women firmly in religious and family life and sets some fairly idealised standards for husbands. Many issues arise when attempting to interpret this myth into a modern context, which is why it is so important to understand that the myth was created over three thousand years ago and is largely a historical document reflecting the mores of the time.

[happehpills]

Ermergerd, stawp it!

[whatshouldwecallhomer]

Greek tragedy: Dionysus in the Bacchae when Pentheus won't worship him:

[ancientart]

Achilles departing, the Nereid Kymothea holding a phiale and an oinochoe (all named). Detail, side B from an Attic red-figure kantharos. Ancient Greek, dates to between circa 450 and circa 400 BC, originally discovered in Vulci, Italy.

Courtesy & currently located at Cabinet des Médailles, Paris. Photo taken by Marie-Lan Nguyen.

[alliluyevas]

NO WAIT FUCK

Now I’m seeing all these similarities between the Iliad and Robert’s Rebellion—one side gets completely crushed to a pulp and the other one everyone either dies in the war or dies after the war or spends ages wandering around in the middle of the ocean (well maybe that’s just Odysseus)

AND GUYS

the war finally ends when someone uses subterfuge to get in the gates and then kills everybody

AND THE OLD KING GETS KILLED IN THE TEMPLE/THRONE ROOM BY AN INEXPERIENCED YOUNG WARRIOR

except Priam is hella more sympathetic than Aerys

BUT WAIT THERE’S MORE

And then Agamemnon/Robert gets home and after generally being a dick and a half to everybody and finally gets stabbed by his wife/killed off by his wife’s machinations (So Clytemnestra/Cersei, y’all)

genius

[feministstoryteller]

DOES THIS MAKE DAENERYS AENEAS? Does that imply she'll never return to Westeros, but will stay in (that other island place) and keep building her empire there??? Or am I taking this too far?

[habeo-uti-balneo]

"Antilochus! You’re the most appalling driver in the world! Go to hell!"

Homer, the Illiad (via schizowhatnow)

[skeletal-deactivated20140705]

[feministstoryteller]

FIGURES OF LORE | the keres, greek mythology

In Greek mythology, the Keres (Κῆρες; singular: Ker Κήρ) were female death-spirits — The Keres were daughters of Nyx. They were described as dark beings with gnashing teeth and claws and with a thirst for human blood. They would hover over the battlefield and search for dying and wounded men.

[whatshouldwecallhomer]

Agamemnon's thoughts when Achilles is whining

[feministstoryteller]

Aristophanes' 'Clouds' and Plato's 'Apology': a Comaprison

hey guys here is a thing I wrote about the different representations of Socrates! It isn't mythology related, but it is ancient greece and I'm super proud of it.

The Oracle described Socrates as the wisest man alive. After thorough analysis Socrates concluded that they must have been right, as he was the only man who knew that he knew nothing. With this in mind, and considering the lack of extensive first-hand sources about Socrates, I think I can state that I too, know that I know nothing about the life and teachings of Socrates. Therefore, this will be the wisest essay on Socrates that you will read.

When discussing Socrates it is difficult to be objective, or find truly definitive sources for his life and work. Unfortunately, Socrates neither wrote nor dictated information to his contemporaries, so an analysis of his life and teachings must rely on the accounts of his pupils and associates. When one is reading these ancient sources, it is important to take into account the biases they invariably held towards both Socrates, and the situation and events that transpired at the time of their writing. When considering bias, ‘students’  (for Socrates himself never labelled them as such, he called them his friends), such as Plato and Xenophon were, understandably, almost worshipful of their ‘teacher’, and this is evident in their writing.[1] This extends to their students, such as Aristotle, who took his teacher Plato’s lead when writing about Socrates.[2] On the other hand, the works of Socrates’ contemporaries are often more critical of his teachings and his actions; in fact some argue that the playwright Aristophanes deliberately lampooned Socrates in his comedy Clouds, which will be further discussed, and Socrates was eventually put to death by his fellow Athenians due to the nature of his teachings.[3] It is for these reasons that it needs to be discussed whether sources such as Aristophanes’ play Clouds are a better or worse source than the works of the philosopher Plato for the life and teachings of Socrates. Aristophanes’ play Clouds has been the subject of much debate over the centuries, with some arguing that the play should not be read as anything other than a light-hearted comedy, and others arguing that it is in fact an accurate depiction of Socrates.[4] Two things must be taken into account when discussing these points of view: firstly, by all accounts the playwright knew Socrates, and secondly, he was a comedic playwright, who wrote to ensure the accolades of his audience, not to preserve an account of certain individuals for the ages.[5] MacDowell argues that Aristophanes used Socrates as a mouthpiece for all sophists and foreign thinkers, as the citizens of Athens were more likely to know of the strange man who had a habit of wandering the streets and accosting strangers, than foreigners.[6]  The views expressed by Socrates in Clouds are not the theories that he held, but instead can be attributed to foreign philosophers such as Anaxagoras, Hippon, Protagoras, and Diogenes.[7] So, the views Aristophanes ascribes to Socrates are not necessarily accurate, and, accounts of his teaching methods do not gel with the account given in Clouds, but instead match accounts of the sophist method of schooling.[8] When other ancient sources are taken into account, it becomes easier to see whether the character of Socrates in Clouds is little more than a caricature of the man or otherwise. This gives additional weight to the argument that that the characterisation of Socrates in Clouds is “a comic reflection of a man in a distorting mirror”.[9] However, MacDowell does concede that it would be wrong to completely dismiss Aristophanes’ rendering of Socrates as wholly inaccurate, as some elements of the investigations he undertakes in the play were things he was interested in as a young man, such as “what happens concerning the sky and the earth”, even if he abandoned the pursuit later in life.[10] An important thing to remember when discussing Aristophanes’ works is that he wrote them to be performed in competitions. When Clouds failed to secure first place, the playwright went back and started rewriting it, presumably with the intention of re-entering it in a later competition. [11] It is hard to believe that a man focused on winning would ensure his comedy was accurate in all details, particularly when the art form makes use of comedic distortion to secure the adulation of its audiences. Aristophanes’ play Clouds cannot be considered a better source on the life and teachings of Socrates, than sources such as Plato and his Apology, simply because Clouds does not discuss Socrates’ life. In the Apology, Plato sets down the speech Socrates is purported to have given in his own defence at his trial. The trial took place in 399BC, and Socrates was charged with impiety, or atheism, and with corrupting the youths of Athens.[12] In his speech, Socrates mentions his parents, his time in the Athenian military, his wife and his children, how he spends his days, and he goes into detail about the visions ‘the god’ shows him, and how ‘the god’ interacts with him in his life.[13] Clouds does nothing of the sort, it simply presents an image of the man as he goes about his day, and the sort of rhetoric he teaches his students.[14] Additionally, Plato was a pupil of Socrates, and the pair was friends, in fact close enough friends that Socrates suggested Plato (and his colleagues Crito, Critobulus and Apollodorus) pay his fines if that were to be his punishment.[15] This means that Plato would have had an understanding of both Socrates’ teachings and his past, giving his account of Socrates’ final words additional verisimilitude.   However, some argue that this actually gives credence to the thought that Plato’s work, as well as the works of his other pupils such as Xenophon, were not entirely accurate – his students may have been so eager to present their mentor in a beneficial light that they “failed to present in their accounts the most damning evidence against Socrates”.[16] This point has some merit to it, as Xenophon’s account of Socrates’ speech is not only shorter, but less moving than Plato’s.[17] To argue against this theory however, is the evidence that Plato and Xenophon, as well as numerous other Athenians, were present at Socrates’ trial, and would have heard the speeches he made. This makes Plato’s account an eye-witness testimony, as he did not do as other authors, such as Herodotus did, in creating from imagination the speeches historical personages were supposed to have spoken. It does not make sense for Plato to have “misrepresented the arguments of Socrates, or hid key elements of the prosecution’s case, when his actions in doing so could so easily be exposed” by the men who had also been present at the trial.[18] In conclusion, while Aristophanes’ play Clouds may not be a definitive source for researchers of the life and teachings of Socrates, it is by no means dismissible. While it describes more of the sophist movement in general than Socrates, there is evidence that some of the ideas mentioned in the play were at one point applicable to Socrates.[19] The playwright may have written more with his audience in mind than with creating an accurate account of a prominent Athenian figure, but he did create a memorable play, which even Socrates is said to have enjoyed immensely.[20] Similarly, Plato’s Apology is likely to be biased, except in this case in favour of the author’s revered teacher. This does not make it less of an interesting and informative read however, it just means the reader should be aware of author bias and take it into account when deciding on the accuracy of each work for themselves. It is one of those foibles of fate that decide that the man who inspired such classic literature, never wrote down works of his own. Accounts of Socrates’ life and teachings must rely on the statements of others, of which one of the better sources is the works of the philosopher Plato.

[1] Linder, D., 2002. The Trial of Socrates: An Account. Available at: http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/socrates/socratesaccount.html [Accessed May 16, 2013]. [2] Kershaw, S., 2010. Classical Civilisation: From the origins of democracy to the fall of the Roman Empire, London: Constable and Robinson Ltd, pp. 130. [3] Pomeroy, S. et al., 2008. Ancient Greece: A Political, Social, and Cultural History 2nd ed., Oxford: Oxford University Press, pp. 353. [4] Fisher, R., 1984. Aristophanes’ Clouds, Amsterdam: Adolf Hakkert; Nussbaum, M., cited in Fisher, R., 1984. Aristophanes’ Clouds, Amsterdam: Adolf Hakkert. [5] Plato’s Symposium, cited in Linder, D., 2002. The Trial of Socrates: An Account. Available at: http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/socrates/socratesaccount.html [Accessed May 16, 2013]. [6] MacDowell, D., 1995. Clouds. In Aristophanes and Athens: An Introduction to the Plays. Oxford: Oxford University Press, pp. 113 – 149. [7] Ross, K., 2000. Commentary on the Apology of Socrates. The Friesian School. Available at: http://www.friesian.com/apology.htm [Accessed May 11, 2013].; Ibid. [8] Ibid; Ibid. [9] Ibid pp. 133. [10] Plato’s Phaidon, cited in MacDowell, D., 1995. Clouds. In Aristophanes and Athens: An Introduction to the Plays. Oxford: Oxford University Press, pp. 132. [11] Ibid pp. 134.; Aristophanes, 1989. The Clouds. In Aeschylus, Sophocles, Euripides, Aristophanes. Britannica Great Books. Translated by Rogers, B., Sydney: William Benton, pp. 494. [12] Ibid pp. 353; Ibid The Trial. [13] Ibid. [14] Ibid [15] Plato, 1989. Apology. In Plato. Britannica Great Books. Translated by Jowett, B., Sydney: William Benton, pp. 210.; Ibid 38 a-b. [16] Ibid Introduction. [17] Ibid pp. 354. [18] Ibid Guilt Phase of Trial. [19] Ibid pp. 132. [20] Plutarch’s Moralia, cited in Linder, D., 2002. The Trial of Socrates: An Account. Available at: http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/socrates/socratesaccount.html [Accessed May 16, 2013].

[whatshouldwecallhomer]

How I imagine Eris at the wedding:

[whatshouldwecallhomer]

How I imagine Odysseus behaves when he doesn't get enough attention

[renlyslittlerose]

I really like to discuss the parallels between Achilles and Andromache, because I find it incredibly fascinating that the language used to describe their grieving process is basically the same. Of course, Andromache doesn’t go out and kill almost an entire army, but she wasn’t trained to let her emotions out that way, unlike Achilles.

 But just the language used is really amazing when you think about it. When Hector fell, Andromache had a violent reaction, “dashing out of the royal halls like a mad woman,” before fainting at the sight of her husband’s body, her handmaids holding her and attempting to sooth her as she wailed and grieved. Her gold jewelry that adorned her body and symbolized her status as the wife of Hector was flung from her body, leaving her bare and plain, no longer decorated in a symbolic representation of her union to Hector.

 Parallel this with Achilles. As soon as word of Patroclus’ demise reached Achilles, he immediately threw himself to the ground and sullied his handsome face with dirt, his clothes become spoiled as he too became plain and simple, his riches and power stripped from him in that moment. Both Andromache and Achilles were completely overcome, and their status as high born meant nothing to death. They were exposed. There was nothing special or unique about them and no amount of money or privileges could save them from the loss of their loved ones. While Andromache’s handmaids waited on her to make sure she would be alright, a fellow warrior of Achilles waited on him, physically restraining him in fear that he would do something drastic. Both have incredibly physical reactions to the events, a common trait among Greek mourners, especially women,

 After the initial shock, Andromache goes on to describe the funeral she would put on for Hector once his body is returned. She made it clear that she would be the one to plan the mourning ceremony herself—a duty for her to see to, not only as a woman but as a wife. She stated that she will burn all of their goods that they had amassed together as a married couple, showing that their life together was also something she was mourning, and not just the loss of his life. This parallels with Achilles’ speech, in which he too explained how he planned on carrying out the funerary process for Patroclus, using much the same tone that Andromache did, only with a more ‘warrior’ sentiment behind it, blood and war booty replacing tapestries and riches. Andromache and Achilles are the ones to carry out the process of seeing their loved ones go, no one else taking part in the process, a strong testament to the bond that the two had with their companions. It was their job and theirs alone to say goodbye, and although their processes were different, the sentiment remained the same.

The language used and the images drawn in the Iliad are also easily likened, with Andromache’s “—voice [ringing] out in tears, and the women wailed in answer” followed shortly by “All as one the armies cried out in sorrow, and Achilles led the chant.” Further on, during the warriors’ funerals, once more the language and imagery evoked is remarkably similar, as Achilles “held [Patroclus’] head, in tears” while Andromache “[cradled] the head of Hector… gently in her arms.”, the two grief stricken and in charge of carrying their loves into the underworld. In Book XXII, Andromache’s grief is specifically detailed and written separately from the rest of the mourning for Hector—it is her emotions and her reactions that are highlighted, the importance displayed with the removal of everything else around her, save for her own personal reaction to a very human and very tragic event. The same care is taken to describe Achilles’ grief. His grief was highlighted and separate from the rest of the Achaean army, especially in Book XVIII and Book XXII. Achilles’ and Andromache’s despair became the main theme of the Iliad, their pain the strong emotion that resonates through the rest of the tale.

 You can read these parallels and similarities in a variety of different ways. Perhaps Homer was trying to link the warrior bond with that of the marital bond, showing the importance of both and what such unions can do to a person. You can also see it as Achilles being made into Patroclus’ wife in many respects, his reactions very carefully being mirrored by a woman who was famed for her marriage and devotion to her husband.

 I just find it fascinating.

[lucyphair]

[feministstoryteller]

Helmet on display in the Olympia Archaeological Museum, Peloponnese - Greece. Untitled by Sotto Scatto on flickr.