Sometimes, I wish they had made Billy ugly because if they did, then I think a lot more people would hate him. I think it stresses me out because you take away all of his psychopathic violent behavior, and there's nothing left of his character to like. He did one nice thing his entire life, and it had to be dug out of his own brain to do it. He wouldn't have gotten better if he had lived, especially after experiencing more trauma.
I hate when people say that when he went looking for Max, it meant he cared. He had been FORCED into doing that. He had three hours to worry about her and he didn't give a fuck. He didn't care that Lucas might have been bothering her. He targeted Lucas because he's black. He even said it, people like him. Steve didn't start the fight, Billy did when he punched Steve in the stomach and trespassed into someone else's home, then SLAMMED A KID AGAINST A FUCKING WALL. . .SLAMMED HIM MORE THAN ONCE. Max was going through the same fucking thing at the hands of Billy and she was a child but do you see her pulling the same shit that Billy did: grabbing her arm tightly, breaking her skateboard, threatening to run down her friends. . .NO! MAX DRUGGED BILLY TO STOP HIM FROM KILLING STEVE! HE WOULD FUCKING KILLED STEVE AND HE WOULD HAVE FUCKING ENJOYED IT TOO. I hate the way you guys make up bullshit about Steve to try to make Billy look better. It was always Billy who started the fight. Steve was protecting Max, not Max. She felt safer with a bunch of strangers than she had with someone who was supposed to be her brother.
It makes me sad because I think about people like Ted Bundy and his victims. All they could see was a pretty charming face, too, and they wound up dead. Billy Hargrove was a character you were supposed to hate. That's how it was written, and it was written pretty well. That's how the actor played him, and I think he did a good job of it. Love the actor all you want, but there is NOTHING about the character that says he deserved to be loved. His parents who abused and abandoned him made sure of that. (Yeah, his mom was an absolute shitty person for not taking him with her.)
With a great antagonist, you're supposed to have a little bit of sympathy for them so you can see where they're coming from, but you're not supposed to forget that they're the antagonist. You're not supposed to blindly love them and act like they did they nothing wrong. I hope you guys don't learn the hard way about why that's a dangerous thing to do with real people like him. It's just scary how most of you can't see past his pretty face, and you can say it's not what you are doing all you want, but that's exactly what you're doing. There is just NOTHING about Billy Hargrove that's likable. You're all just distracted by his tight pants, his shiny car, and his pretty eyes. Take that all away, and what do you have left? NOTHING LIKEABLE.
Sometimes, I wish they had made Billy ugly, because if they did, then I think a lot more people would hate him.
Reread that. Reread how awful that sounds. Then reread it again.
He did one nice thing in his life, and it had to be dug out of his brain to do it.
One person showed him empathy in his life. That was enough for him to spend his final moments protecting her.
Just one person, digging past the veneer.
He wouldn’t have gotten better if he lived, especially after more trauma.
As someone who has been through the same, non-supernatural trauma as Billy, and could not get help/stop being a ‘bad survivor’ until I was in my mid-twenties, with modern information and resources, how fucking dare you.
That is beyond dehumanizing. That sends the incredibly shitty, awful message that people use to justify the death penalty, and the stigmatization of mental illness, every day.
Do you not realize how that comes across to people who hadn’t responded in a ‘socially acceptable’ way to their ongoing trauma?
I hate it when people say he went looking for Max, it meant that he cared. He had been FORCED into doing that. He had three hours to look for her and he didn’t give a fuck.
He was forced by his abusive father who carried the implicit threat of ‘or else—‘ in his arsenal. Billy had stated, plainly, she is old enough to look after herself.
That implicit threat of ‘or else—‘ will carry into later.
Max has given every indication she’d rather be off by herself. It was also the 80s; expectations were entirely different for supervision. Even in the 90s, when I grew up, I was often off on my own, and didn’t come home until it was dark out. This was normal.
There was no reason for Billy to be up Max’s ass until Neil, with his violence, and Susan, with her passive enabling of the violence, forced Billy to go looking.
He targeted Lucas because he’s black.
It is incredibly common for abuse survivors in active abusive situations to take on the beliefs of their abusers to try and protect themselves.
It doesn’t excuse it, but it adds context to it. And that context, provided with how Billy responds when exactly one person showed him empathy, leaves the impression that he can unlearn racism.
And yes, people can unlearn it.
Billy started the fight when he punched Steve in the stomach
He shoved him on the chest. Insert infamous ‘plant your feet’ line here. There’s a dirth of difference between the two. Steve likely wouldn’t have even fallen if he’d been paying attention to Billy, and not to the kids in the window. The shove looked half-assed at best.
The first punch was thrown by Steve— after Billy is already in a hyper state of volatile emotion having been threatened and physically assaulted by his father; having to flirt with Karen (and looking dead inside after the fact) to even get Max’s location; and now being lied to, to his face, by an older male teen who, once upon a time, had a reputation for sleeping around and treating women poorly.
Then Lucas rightly defended himself against Billy, and Billy, already on a hair trigger from everything else, gets spun around and sucker punched by Steve.
The fight isn’t nearly as one-sided as you’re making it.
HE WOULD’VE FUCKING KILLED STEVE AND HE WOULD’VE ENJOYED IT TOO
You really, really don’t know how hyper-vigilance or the gauntlet of emotions work in that state. Fight, and flight, are kicked up to 11.
That look on Billy’s face was not one of enjoyment, but anguish and rage fueled by that anguish.
Max was going through the same fucking things at the hands of Billy
Max has said it herself that Billy wasn’t like this prior to them moving to Hawkins.
This all screams to me that Billy is at his crashing point with his mental health.
It makes me sad because I think about people like Ted Bundy and his victims. All they could see was a pretty charming face too
Real classy, comparing an abused teenager with no support system, in an actively abusive situation, to a prolific serial killer.
I don’t have the time, nor the energy, to explain the difference between a hurt teenager lashing out, and the mentality behind a serial killer and what makes one.
I will say that I strongly identify with one, while the other I abhor, for reasons that should be obvious.
If they’re not, I suggest removing those black and white glasses of yours.
NOTHING about the character says he deserves to be loved
He’s an abused child. They all deserve love.
You’re not supposed to love them and act like they did nothing wrong
Learn the difference between contextualization and excusing.
Explains the why isn’t excusing the what.
There is NOTHING about Billy that is likeable. Take away his blah blah blah, and what’re you left with? NOTHING LIKEABLE
The ‘nothing likable’ is the point. It is the active, salient point.
A great deal of people who like Billy are abuse survivors who were also ‘not likable’ and ‘not worth saving’ and ‘sure you can sympathize with them a tiny bit, so long as you remember they’re unlovable.’
That mentality of yours played a huge hand in why it took me so long to actually get help. I ‘wasn’t worth saving.’
And to cut this off before I’m sure it rears it’s head— Billy’s, and Jonathan’s and Will’s situations are not comparable, nor should anyone be comparing any abuse survivor to another.
Jonathan and Will had active support systems in each other, and in their mom, and their abuser had left the picture.
Billy didn’t have a support system, and was with his abuser until his death.


















