My Top 10 Lizzington Moments
In lieu of my recent appearance on a local TV/movies podcast, where I defended Lizzington, I started mentally preparing a list of reasons why the romantic pairing is legitimate and why the father/daughter reading of Spader and Booneās characters is wrong.
Granted, this isnāt to say that there canāt and hasnāt been some aspects of their relationship that have felt more like a father/daughter, uncle/niece, teacher/student, mentor/mentee relationship than it does a romantic couplingā¦ but that doesnāt prevent the relationship from evolving into something romantic later on, or from Lizzington being the endgame.
Among the bigger reasons I could think of were:
In-show evidence (which we will get into more in a second), including the original pilot script
Comments from the actors, producers, writers, showrunners, etc.
The types of roles James Spader takes interest in (ie, romantic leads, not fatherly figures)
Parallels to other couples in literature/history/pop culture, including but not limited to: Edmond Dantes/Haydee from The Count of Monte Cristo; Bill/The Bride from Kill Bill; Hannibal/Clarice from The Silence of the Lambs universe; and real-life Whitey Bulger, who had at least one long-term relationship with a woman 16 years his junior
While talking with the two guys on the podcast who had seen the show, they argued that they hadnāt seen any evidence of Redās romantic love for Liz or the Lizzington endgame possibility, citing their age gap and Redās paternal type relationship with Liz as their reasoning.
I, in turn, mentioned a few scenes on the show where Red acts less than fatherly, such as when he surrenders himself on bent knee in 1x21, and when he narrates the tango milonga very sexily to Liz in 2x11.
Either they didnāt recall these instances at all, or didnāt see them as being romantic/sexual.
Thus, long after the podcast recording was over, I started mentally forming a list of the Top 10 Lizzington moments on the show that scream romance rather than father/daughter. Like, moments where if my dad or fatherly figures ever acted like that around me, Iād be freaking the fuck out. Or, moments where if I were writing a father/daughter pair (whether biological or honorary), I would completely avoid such moments for the squick factor, etc.
Granted, there are plenty of moments to choose from, but I wanted to pick big, meaningful moments, rather than just things like Redās casual reference to the G-spot in front of Liz, etc.
And, really, each individual entry on this list doesnāt prove in and of itself that Lizzington will happen, but itās really more a combination of all these moments PLUS all the ones I didnāt list (along with all the other stuff I mentioned above).Ā One or two squicky moments can be waved off, but all of these, and as iconic and important as they are in the showā¦ yeah, Lizzington is legit.
I tried to pick out single, individual moments, but there are two exceptions on the list. And, I only went up to the end of S4. I havenāt found any really strong Lizzington moments in S5 thus far, mostly because Liz believes Red is her dad.
And, again, these arenāt my favorite Lizzington moments; rather, the ones that I feel like mostĀ āproveā or support the idea of a Lizzington endgame/coupling. Once the series is over, I might do a full list of my favorite moments between Red and Liz.
(It wasnāt until after Iād made this list that I remembered the scene in 4x22 where Liz confronts Red about being her dad and he neither confirms nor denies that he is. Instead, he has this look on his face that Iāve seen on the faces of other TV/movie characters when theyāve beenĀ āfriend-zonedā or, in Redās case,Ā āfather-zoned.ā Eh. Whatever. Iām going with the list as I already wrote it.)
But, now, starting at Number 10 and work our way up to Number 1:
#10: The Fulcrum memory extraction scene in 2x10
I put this one pretty low on the list, because itās mostly the cinematography that implies the lack of personal space and physical closeness between Red and Liz. Like, he never actually does anything untoward or inappropriate to her, but he definitely gets super close to her face, and holding her, and some of the angles on those shots make it look so close between them.
And, granted, Iām not technically including the fall-out of this sequence, but I absolutely love the scene after when Liz accuses Red of only being in her life because heās using her to find the Fulcrum. Like, all of his attention and affection toward her has been a manipulation, and as he reaches out to give her a reassuring touch, she recoils and spits venom at him. And he looks absolutely devastated. I feel like that scene is one of my favorites in the whole series, but, as far as the entry on this list goesā¦ the closeness between them in that memory extractionā¦ itās low down on the list, but, it deserves a spot.
#9: Waiting for her outside the courthouse in 3x10
Again, this is also pretty low on the list, because ā in and of itself ā it doesnāt scream Lizzington. Not the actual action of the scene itself. I can imagine plenty of dads or father figures waiting patiently outside courthouses for their daughters.
But, it wasnāt really WHAT happened in the scene, but HOW it happened. The music, the fact that the had the bus move, and he was there behind itā¦ a notable romantic trope. The fact that he was waiting OUTSIDE. My dad would absolutely be right inside the door, wanting to see me as soon as possible. Granted, other dads are different, but the music and the staging with the bus were strong factors for this scene being where it is. The looks on their faces when they embrace; the fact that they donāt say anythingā¦ again, low down, but it deserves a spot.
#8: Ā Redās explanation of Tomās betrayal in 2x19
This is another instance where WHAT is happening in the scene isnāt as important as HOW itās happening. In this instance: HOW Red explains Tomās betrayal, how he emphasizes that Tom betrayed him because he wanted a life of intimacy and commitment to Lizā¦ and the look that Spader has on his face when he says it. Heās absolutely shattered. Itās something thatās beyond jealousy, I feel like. Itās this sense of complete heartbreak that, not only did Tom achieve something Red now longs for (intimacy with Liz), but that Liz was happy in that life with Tom, even if it was built on a lie. That Redās loss was Tom and Lizās gain.
Granted, I donāt think Red was in love with Liz whenever he found out about Tomās betrayal. He absolutely cared for her and wanted her to be safe. Hence why he felt he had to turn himself in. But, now that Red has met Liz and presumably fallen in love with her, he completely hates Tom for what he did to both Liz and himself; and I think that his obvious devastation over Lizās discovery that Red initially hired Tom is more because he feels guilty himself, not because Liz now thinks badly of him (again).
This one is low on the list, but I felt like it deserved a spot because I canāt imagine a father or father-figure speaking to his daughter (figure) the way Red does here. I imagine itād be more like,Ā āHey, I may have hired your ex-husband, but he was an asshole and betrayed me to save himself and needle his way into your life.ā Not the way Spader delivers itā¦ with that emphasis on Tomās desire to be intimate and committed to Liz.
#7: The dinner date in 1x02
You know, because if I were a dad and I reunited with my long-lost now-adult daughter after years and years, Iād tell her to get dressed up, because I want to take her out to dinner. And then while weāre on said fancy dinner-date, Iāll bring up out of nowhere, and with little to no need, that if anyone asks sheās MY GIRLFRIEND. Squick indeed.
And for those of you who might be saying/thinking,Ā āYeah, but THEN, he says she can be his daughter.ā To which I reply,Ā āTHEN WHY EVEN BRING UP THE GIRLFRIEND THING IN THE FIRST PLACE!!!ā
When coupled with everything else that happens in that scene: how he whispers, orders her a drink in French (showing off), asks her to profile him, etc., ā¦ what father acts like that while on a dinner date with his daughter? Ew.
#6: The May/September reference in 3x05 (and other Blacklistersā references to Lizzington)
āSome say itās a daddy/daughter thing; others swear itās May/September. I prefer to believe itās a little of both.ā āMatias Solomon
This is one of those entries where Iām going to cheat, because while I think Solomonās quote is the most pro-Lizzington thing a Blacklister has ever said, heās not the only one to point out Lizzington. From Anslo Garrick to Luther Braxton to Berlin to that lady in the all-woman thief squad to The Director to Madeline Pratt to that annoying FBI agent in S4c to Naomi Hyland.
Liz is Redās girlfriend, princess, prima ballerina ā¦ someone he chose through fate; someone he cares for as much as he care for his wife; someone who blinds him to his passion; someone with whom RedĀ āstill has the touchā; someone Red makes feel like sheās the center of the world; someone whose relationship with Red is described asĀ āstill the in honeymoon phaseā; someone who charmed Liz.
Again, if youāre writing a father/daughter-type relationship: WHY EVEN FUCKING BRING IT UP IN THE FIRST PLACE!!!!
If youāre just trying to throw red herrings at the audience, why do it in that way? And, if anyone points back to Solomonās quote and says that itās both, I say: EXACTLY. Red can definitely have a mentoring relationship with Liz and be overly protective of her, while also still being in love with her.
#5: āMy life, My heartā in 3x18
What dad, upon watching his daughter die, would describe her asĀ āa womanā¦ who was my life, my heartā? The fact that Red is talking to his own imagination, or at least to a complete stranger makes me wonder why the hell he would ever phrase it so vaguely ā instead of saying something more straight-forward, like,Ā āMy daughter was my life. My heart is broken now that sheās dead.ā
Also, if Red is her dad, why does he feel like killing himself? Yes, his daughter died, but he still has Agnes. Tom be damned; if Redās her grandfather, he deserves an opportunity to be in her life. No, Red feeling like the love of his life is gone makes more sense. As much as he wants to be, he has no right to be in Agnesā life if thatās the case, and Tom (as Agnesā dad) has every right to tell Red to leave them alone.
#4: Surrendering on bent knee in 1x21
Even IF Red doesnāt know heās related to Liz, the writers HAVE to know. What idiot writes a bajillion-dollar network show and says,Ā āFuck it, idk how these peeps are connected! Weāll make it up as we go along!ā No, the writers absolutely know what the connection is between Red and Liz, and if they were related, thereās absolutely no way they would ever write a scene where the man GETS DOWN ON HIS KNEES after a super-moving monologue about what Liz means to him and how a kiss from a woman making nearly dying well worth it.
I donāt care if heās just surrendering himself to the authorities. Thereās less dramatic, less trope-y, less romance-hinting ways to do it. The fact that he does it so slowly, so meaningfully, never breaking eye contact with herā¦ fucking hell, what dad does that to his daughter? Or what writers would have an unwitting dad act like that with his daughter? Either Redās fucked up or the writers are, if theyāre really and truly related.
And, even if itās just an honorary father/daughter thing, the point still stands. I have plenty of fatherly figures in my life, and if any of them looked at me the way Red looks at Liz, gets done on his knees and surrenders (to the authorities) in front of me, Iād definitely be weirded out. Remember, that IN-SHOW, Liz already has a fatherly figure: Cooper. I know other people have pointed this out before, but these two men act very differently for both supposedly being fatherly figures in Lizās life. By contrast, Red is much physically closer, more intimate and moreĀ āromanticā (but not like overtly) and in a way more chivalrous than Cooper would ever be. Could you imagine Cooper getting down on his knees as Red does? No, and thatās a good thing.
#3: Sexy tango narration in 2x11
This is another instance where, if you substitute Cooper into this scene in Redās place, it becomes immediately weird. James Spader can pull it off because heās James Spader. Heās drawn to characters who are erotic and sensual and intelligent and romantic; or, if theyāre not already, he makes them so, because thatās how he is.
I think that maybe has blinded people to how weird and inappropriate this scene would feel if it was a father/daughter or father-figure and his protege (like, with Cooper and Liz). Imagine Cooper saying the same things to Liz in this scene; describing the tango in the exact same way, with the same tone of voice. Itās no wonder James Spader gets a pass. Weāve come to expect the weird and sensual from Red (like the G-spot reference in 1x03), even though it wouldnāt be accepted in everyday conversation. Thatās just the guy Red is.
Or is it more that itās how Red is around Liz? Yes, Red is plenty weird and sensual and stuff around Samar and other people on the show, but he seemingly cranks it up to 11 around Liz.
Definitely not something a father or fatherly figure should do.
#2: The Ugly Fish and North Star monologues in 2x09 and 3x02
People on Tumblr have brought up before Redās parallels to Edmond Dantes from The Count of Monte Cristo; it makes sense: Red, our anti-hero of the story, has certain parallels to the classical Byronic hero, which Dantes falls into. You know who else is a classic Byronic hero? Mr. Rochester fromĀ āJane Eyre.ā
āJane Eyre,ā for those of you whoāve never read it or seen an adaptation of it, is about a young governess fresh out of school who eventually falls in love with her moody but intelligent employer, Mr. Rochester. He tells Jane, after she saves him from a fire, that he knew she would do him good one day, that she would revive some goodness in him. Later, he refers to her as regenerating him with a vengeance and that she would be his means/instrument of salvation, and that he believes she would help him to live in a higher and purer way.
Now, who else does that sound like?
I get that people believe their kids are their saving graces, their second chances, their fresh starts, etc. Hell,Ā one of the reasons The Bride leaves Bill inĀ āKill Billā is so she can make a fresh start with their child. But, the way Red words these little speeches, the meaning behind them, how he gazes at her with complete adoration, how frequently he tells Liz that he sees hisĀ āsecond chanceā and saving grace, etc. ā¦ it seems a little overkill for a parent to do. A simpleĀ āI wanted to make a fresh start with youā or whatever would be just fine.
The strong parallels between Red and Byronic heroes like Edmond Dantes and Mr. Rochester ā both of whom end up with women who are much younger than themā¦ young enough to be their biological daughters ā absolutely make me roll my eyes any time people say that Redās love for Liz is fatherly, and only fatherly.
Plus, with the North Star scene, that song that plays over the scene also doesnāt exactly screamĀ āplatonicā orĀ āfamilial,ā now does it?
I really want anyone who believes Red is Lizās dad to watch any adaptation of Jane Eyre, or at least the scene where she saves him from the fire, and then rewatch one or both of these TBL scenes, and notice the similarities and parallels. Yāall. Itās like ridiculous how romantic these scenes are.
#1: The sexy dream (āWhat do you really want?ā) in 2x03
Because, you know, when I have dreams about my dad or my fatherly figure withholding secrets from me, I imagine him in my hotel room while Iām somewhat scantily dressed and laying on the bed, standing over me and asking in a husky voice,Ā āWhat do you really want?ā This gives us a hint very early in the show that maybe Liz doesnāt see Red as quite so fatherly as some believe. All his little hints and sensual commentsā¦ all the lip-staring and meaningful looks between themā¦ Lizās āI feel possessive of himā and similar commentsā¦ all comes to a head here (at least at this point in the show). Already, Liz subconsciously, if nothing else, realizes Redās love for her is not quite platonic and that heās a very sensual man who ā while he would definitely give his life for hers without a second thought ā also sees her as a man sees a woman, not as a friend sees a friend (or honorary father sees an honorary daughter).
Now, I realize that might be unfair, as Liz canāt consciously control her dreams. But the writers can and do. Why write that scene like that? Why stage it in that exact way, with Liz holding onto the headboard of the bed, with Red standing over her? Why have those exact camera movements, with Red coming toward Lizās bed, and the shot moving down to her legs and then up to her head? Him standing where he was wouldāve been just fine, but, no, he comes closer to her while she looks up at him a little bit taken aback.
Also, notice how thereās no wide-shot in that whole sequence with Red standing over Lizās bed? Itās a panning or moving shot. Itās almost like lingering on this image of Red standing next to Lizās bed while sheās scantily dressed and asking her what she really wants would be ā¦ gasp, sensual! Or I guess even more overtly sensual.
Again, if itās just the writers trying to throw us offā¦ there are plenty of other ways to do that ā¦ there are plenty of other ways to write this scene without any kind of squick factor ā¦ if all you wanted was a dream where Liz imagines Red killing Tom to protect his secrets from Liz, then why write it and then SHOOT it as they did? Everything we see and hear on-screen is intentional.Ā
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