do you agree with the sentiment that the aftg books are badly written? it something that ive seen a lot and like a comparison that ive seen is that it reads like fanfiction which i do agree with but i still think the books are well written personally like they're obviously not books that would win awards for writing ever but the writing isn't bad in any way to me
Hi there,
I’m going to be honest: I don’t fully understand calling an original work that is not based on any preexisting works to be like fanfiction. The fact of that matter is that fanfiction has nothing to do with ‘quality of writing.’ What makes fanfiction, fanfiction is that it is someone writing (a long story, oneshot, drabble, etc.,) using characters, plots, themes, imagery, etc., that were created by someone else. Basically, using someone else’s intellectual property (for fun! Which is allowed. For profit is illegal, which is why fanfiction cannot be sold at book stores for money). Unless, of course, someone edits their fanfiction JUST enough to be considered a new intellectual property. My detailed response is as always, long, and therefore under the Read More.
And the thing is, people have edited their fanfics to no longer be blatant plagiarism & then sold them for money (in fact someone literally has a novel out BASED on Nora’s novel). In fact, this has become astonishingly popular. Everyone knows, of course, that 50 Shades of Grey started as a Twilight fanfic. There are now SEVERAL traditionally published novels that started as Harry Potter fanfiction. There are novels that were originally Marvel fanfic or One Direction fanfic. And many of these (traditionally published) novels were not, from my understanding, edited to be that different from their fanfic counterparts & they went on to make multi-million dollar movie deals. There are also works that are in the public domain and therefore are allowed to be used by others - think ‘The Song of Achilles’ being based on the Iliad or ‘Pride and Prejudice and Zombies’ being based on Pride & Prejudice.
However, none of this applies to AFTG. AFTG was entirely created by Nora. The characters, relationships, plot, plot twists, narrative, themes, etc., were all creatively developed by Nora. They are not based on someone else’s intellectual property. Therefore, AFTG cannot read like fanfiction.
Now, if we are saying AFTG is ‘like fanfiction’ b/c we are trying to say AFTG is ‘poorly written’ then we should say ‘poorly written’ and not ‘like fanfiction.’ Because otherwise we are distorting what makes fanfiction, fanfiction (and what published (self or traditional) works SHOULD be brought up in relation to fanfic - and that is works that were originally fanfics themselves or heavily based on someone else’s already published works). And that is partially because not all fanfiction is poorly written (despite what some people may insistent). Fanfiction is written by thousands of people globally and therefore not all fanfics can be lumped together so simply.
Some people writing fanfiction are 30+, 40+, 50+ and they have college diplomas, undergraduate university degrees, postgraduate degrees, masters, doctorates. Decades of work experience - possibly even IN publishing - or academia, or film, working at libraries, law, medicine or the sciences. Some of these people even use Beta readers, which means their stories are being edited by their peers similar to how self & traditionally published novels are (and considering what I said earlier about published novels that WERE originally fanfics being barely edited when they BECOME published clearly there isn’t much to change even by ‘professional’ standards). There are many fanfics that are, in fact, excellently written on par with published works.
Now, some fanfics are written by younger people who are still developing their skills & voice. High school students or elementary aged students. I do not think it is appropriate to compare them to adults with decades more writing & life experience. Younger writers are not ‘poor’ writers nor is their work ‘poorly written.’ They are developing skills that take hard-work and continuous effort to excel at - you can only get better at writing BY writing. Some fanfics are also written by people studying a second language, which is also extremely difficult - not just to learn a second language, but to be able to creatively write in it.
I have critiqued Fanon several times for simplifying AFTG & I have also critiqued people who conflate their Fanon with Canon or harass authors like Nora to make their Fanon Canon ‘or else.’ And yes, sometimes popular Fanon can warp the way people characterize Canon characters & ignore significant canonical narrative events, character growth, what the themes of a novel were meant to be conveying. However, this behaviour is not a reflection of all fanfic writers or the intent of every single person who writes fanfic nor does it mean fanfic is automatically poorly written. Even if someone IS writing a pwp or a fluffy oneshot - that does not automatically correlate to how they analyze the canon novels or that they think their fanfic is narratively superior than the canon novels.
I do think that some people, in trying to defend fanfic from unfair criticisms that all fanfic is universally bad and devoid of talent or deeper meaning, have catapulted their arguments TOO far to the other side: an insistence that fanfic is ALWAYS better written than canon, that fans ALWAYS have a better understanding of the characters than their creator does (this rhetoric all tends to treat fans as a hivemind who all have the exact same opinions). This is not a sentiment I agree with. Moreover, I would also argue that some peoples insistence that AFTG is ‘basically fanfiction’ is to ignore Nora AS the higher creative authority on her work. Nora DID come up with the characters, their character journeys, their relationships, the plot & plot twists, the imagery & symbolism and deeper narrative meanings. To suggest that she is the same & her work is of the same quality as the people who write fanfic based on HER works is ridiculous. Furthermore, this conflation is what allows people to treat their fanons as being equal in Fandom to what Canon states & then lash out at other readers for not complying with their interpretation of the text (because they consider themselves to be an Ultimate Authority despite not being one).
Additionally, it can be argued that not all published novels (self or traditional) are ‘well-written.’ What is considered a ‘well-written’ novel can vary from person to person. There are many VERY popular novels that some people love & other people consider garbage that never should have been accepted for publishing. There are several classic novels that are considered by some to be the ‘standard of literature’ (and this itself I think is something to investigate: what authors often get to be considered the ‘standard of literature’ and what authors are considered to be ‘trashy’ - who gets to set the ‘standard of literature?’ Why is that the standard? Who is enforcing the standard? Who is often deliberately ignored?) while some consider those same classics to be boring and derivative. Some people love long, flowing and metaphorical prose & some consider the same prose to be ‘purple prose’ that detracts from a story. Some love dialogue while others do not. Nora has a direct, easy to follow writing style that has its merits especially for the story she is telling. Not all writers, including fanfic writers, self-published or traditionally published novels have the same writing style. If someone thinks this, maybe they need to expand their reading material to start including writers who DO write differently from what they are accustomed to.
Moreover, good writing is not JUST about prose. It’s about crafting a story that readers will love, which Nora did. When someone says ‘oh I think AFTG is poorly written but I still love it!’ Then how can you think it is poorly written if you love it? You can say the prose isn’t what you prefer but if it was poorly written you would not be so attached to the characters or the story. Clearly, Nora has done something right. The sole purpose of a writer is not to be the Best Technical Writer it is to write a story that people will love and speak about for years into the future. A novel could be technically perfect and devoid of any genuine passion or meaning.
Additionally, I also think some people call AFTG ‘poorly written’ or ‘without deeper meaning’ b/c then, once again, they can justify why THEIR interpretations of the text/how Canon “should have gone” is just Inherently Better than what Nora wrote (even if it’s really not). I notice a lot of people say “this part of AFTG was poorly written” to mean “what I wanted to happen didn’t happen and instead of analyzing the text for WHY what I wanted to happen didn’t happen (perhaps b/c it did not narratively make sense) I’m simply going to say Nora is a BAD writer.” Or “Nora writes her characters OOC in this scene” (already a wild statement to make) actually means “the characters aren’t behaving in a way I like & instead of considering that perhaps I, the reader, am projecting onto the characters to behave in the way I would even if it goes against their characterization, I’m going to Blame Nora for being a Bad Writer.” I guess what I’m trying to say is: a story being written in a way that someone PERSONALLY doesn’t like/how THEY would have written it doesn’t necessarily mean the author is a bad writer. Because honestly, sometimes the ideas people have about what ‘would have been better’ are Frankly Worse.
Critical thinking demands that people make their own choices regarding what they think is ‘good’ writing. Instead of simply accepting what their 12th Grade English teacher says is good writing (and sometimes this means saying ‘I acknowledge the merits of this story & why many of my peers consider it to be good writing but frankly it is not for me and I Personally Do Not Like It).
Now, what traditional publishing companies supply authors is: marketing & brand (in exchange for taking a share of the profits). Traditional publishing is a business, in which the goal is to make a lot of money by selling books that will appeal to A LOT of people. This is why people with already built-in audiences (celebrities, influences, Youtubers back in the day) get book deals for books that are ghost-written by someone with actual writing talent or they try writing themselves and then their audiences wonders ‘why isn’t this any good’ (hint: it’s because those people are not writers and do not practice creative writing with any sort of passion or regularity). Nora was able to build a Fandom without a famous publishing company brand name or them investing money in marketing her. That is already a sign of skill. Many self-published writers DREAM of the kind of success Nora has achieved. Pretending that what she has achieved isn’t remarkable comes across as demeaning and a combination of elitism and sexism.
Even if AFTG would ‘never win any awards’ (and again we need to investigate - who created these awards & who wins these awards with any regularity, anyway - and who, once again, is often left out and dismissed from winning awards). Such sentiment ‘well it won’t win any awards’ also dismisses what AFTG HAS achieved for a self-published author. Moreover, most novels don’t win awards & not everyone publishes with the intent to win awards, anyway. Nora stayed true to her vision & the story she wanted to tell & while AFTG certainly is not without problems (I myself have critiqued how race was handled several times) a lot of elements in Nora’s books also risked being possibly removed if she had been traditionally published in 2013.
genuinely if i was into neil josten i would be humiliated by it too. the man wears jorts. he's never picked up a social cue in his life and the only thing he thinks about is stick ball. he smokes but he actually doesn't and he's ginger and he's got mommy issues and the most punchable face a man has ever worn. he doesn't even pick up on any of your cool smooth lines nor does he care how sexy your car is. he's british. when you're talking he says things like 'i could draw on you with a marker' and when you're gone he says you're all that matters. andrew was right to hate him this would be a fucking devastating thing to discover about yourself.
I think it’s interesting that we have Neil describing Jean‘s grey eye colour at the banquet (when Neil is famously not big on giving us physical descriptions of people other then Andrew) and then telling us that his favourite colour is grey just a couple pages later
“She died. She can’t come back, even if you keep her stuffed away in a drawer you can’t look at. You’re not waiting for her resurrection; you’ve made yourself her mausoleum.”
thinking about ianthe and harrow sacreligiously indulging each other by using last names, sinning and scrambling for scraps of the pre-canonized selves neither of them thought they would miss. the selves that were tied down by something as ephemeral and ridiculous as filial piety and blood. it’s over and done and we can’t go back and don’t tell god but please just say my name out loud
turnnoffyourmind
baratheonpilled
areudirty
romaincrisis
snowghoul
