i know i would be ragebated by the trojans SO fast if i had to play against them like wdym we just scored against you and you're all smiling at the provocations and praising the power of friendship or whatever
"jean had a crush on kevin i guess" umm why are some of you minimising the fact that we canonically know that kevin day is not only jean's first love but also the only person jean was truly in love with. why are you ignoring the fact that he said he only loved once and he can't talk about it bc it's THAT big and painful. why are you ignoring that jean was going through literal hell because he was so in love with kevin that despite his training and trying to hide it everyone still knew just by the way he looked at him. why are you ignoring the fact that jean was ready to live for kevin as well as he was ready to die for him. why are you ignoring the fact that jean would rather kill kevin before letting him leave him. why are you ignoring the fact that jean was crushing on renee and jeremy but the moment kevin showed up in the room he would instantly forget everything as a reminder that he never stopped loving kevin. why are you ignoring the fact that jean hates kevin with such passion because he loves him with such passion. like holy shit did some of you even read the books or you're just afraid that despite other ships and who they end up with kevin will always haunt jean's narrative.
most of my teachers start the semester announcing how much reading we will be expected to do, and how they know “your generation doesn’t read so im sure you’ll hate it”. and i hate it bc i cant very well argue, if i tell them they’re wrong and i do read they’ll ask what i read. and I’d rather be thought illiterate than admit in front of 50 classmates that i read fake lacrosse mafia romance books and its corresponding fanfiction
ok I slept like 3 hours last night so this will not be as coherent as I hoped but the quickest version is this:
there's an anchor arc in TBC that has to be solid, as I've hinged every other part of the story on it, but the further we got into the book the more fragile it became.
Tashie & I went back and forth for 2+ weeks trying to make it work. turns out a clean fix was impossible, and the only thing to do was tear the entire arc out and start over.
I have faith I can get it right this time, but I don't have faith I can rewrite & revise (and edit everything else around it) in time for a November deadline. Sorry, my lovies, but thank you for all your kind words & for sticking with me anyway <3
my absolute favourite part of the golden raven is when jeremy says "good thing neil was here when grayson died, he gave jean a good alibi!" and kevin and andrew look at each other like "he fucking killed that guy" and that's actually canon. that happened
In 2018, I wrote down a passing thought in my cheap little leather-bound journal I was writing a collection of songs in that would go on to become Preacher’s Daughter. “If I finish this album the way it needs to be finished, it will change my life, and it will leave a hole in my heart for years that I won’t know how to fill.” I’ve always had a knack for eerily accurate self-premonition. Preacher’s Daughter certainly left a hole, and it certainly changed my life, but only on the outside. All the songs I wrote for it were about characters, a girl in a “faraway” place living her “faraway” life, albeit still parallel to mine, but wholly detached from me. Willoughby was doomed to be closer to home. I wrote Nettles and Waco the same week, the first week I spent in the Alabama house where I would finish Preacher’s Daughter after so many years of trying. The difference was I wrote them about me. There were no characters at first; it was just me. In fact, I wrote them in an attempt to hide from Ethel Cain for a moment. She eventually devoured those little ditties too, of course, as she always does. In hindsight, I’m glad I had to share them with her. I couldn’t have carried the full weight of them myself, I know that now. My premonitions were out in full force; over the course of the next few years, I’d script out my own life in the same morbid fashion I always have. Maybe it was a lesson in not training my eye downward as I’ve spent the majority of my life doing.
I had 3 weeks for the holidays between mixing and submitting Perverts and jumping back into the maw of taming an unfinished Willoughby Tucker. I spent the first three months of 2025 on probation, unable to go much of anywhere, awake only when the sun was down. I’d never mixed a record of that magnitude, which was daunting with deadlines immovable. I remember 9am on my 27th birthday rolling around after being awake for hours whittling away at mixes, announcing the album and entire tour before going back to mix an album that still wasn’t done. I’ve never cried so much finishing a record, and that was before it was even out. Combining your Saturn return, your first shot at true love, and the longest tour of your life is something I would never recommend to anyone. It was the death of both ego and everything around it. I couldn’t be more grateful. Never in my life have I been so turned inside out, so uprooted and unraveled. Looking back, I needed it more than anything.
Thank you to everyone who listened. Ethel Cain and Willoughby Tucker will always be my children, my burnt offerings, what I leave in the storm. Sometimes I wish it didn’t have to be this way, but I also fear it’s the only way. Ethel Cain, Willoughby Tucker, I really will always love you. I feel as though in this moment here, saying goodbye, you and I are closer than ever. I hope you can forgive me.
do you think it would be possible in some sort of nebulous far future for andrew to find enough reasons to live aside from neil that he wouldn't immediately... take drastic measures... if neil died before him? i've been thinking about it for a while and idk, it's an interesting question
Hi there!
My answer is going to be under the Read More because I’m going to be speaking on suicide, suicide ideation & being passively suicidal particularly in relation to Andrew. If these topics are uncomfortable for anyone, do not feel obligated to continue reading.
This is an interesting question! We do have some information from Nora regarding how Andrew would have responded if Neil had died in Baltimore, and we can use that to help build an answer to how Andrew would respond if Neil died further on in the future.
In the old EC answers, it’s when Neil goes missing that Andrew truly understands what Neil means to him - that despite everything Andrew has done to keep his barriers in place & not let Neil in, he loves Neil. And it is after he gets Neil back that Andrew realizes he cannot let Neil go, which is why Andrew breaks his deal with Aaron & at the end of TKM stops referring to him and Neil as ‘nothing’ and fully commits to being with Neil (loving Neil).
This is after, as Nora describes, “that bus ride where Neil talked for hours about his life and looked at Andrew like Andrew was the answer to everything.” As we should all (hopefully) know by now, when Andrew says in TKM, “I am not your answer and you sure as fuck aren’t mine,” this line is IRONIC. It’s situational irony that becomes dramatic irony when you re-read the novels because as we know, Kevin’s deal with Andrew involves, “giving Andrew something to build a life around,” and Andrew ends up building a life around NEIL. Neil is his answer - and Andrew IS Neil’s answer, and Andrew enjoys being Neil’s answer. He wants to feel appreciated, like he is a good protector - perhaps even a good man & not a monster, despite the fact that Andrew himself fed into the monster persona, but as Betsy says the monster persona is not actually healthy for Andrew - and he wants to be loved.
Nora then goes on to say, “what little light Andrew had would have gone out that day… it is noticeably and extreme… everyone would have seen the light go out in Andrew.” We know from Nicky and other characters that Andrew before his medication was passively suicidal: joyless, without a future, his high school guidance counselor feared Andrew wouldn’t make it to graduation. That is part of the reason characters like Nicky so strongly believed the court-mandated medication was good for Andrew because he appeared “happy” and “no longer passively suicidal” just because he was smiling and laughing - even though those outward expressions of emotions were not at all indicative of how Andrew truly felt.
However, Andrew HAD been opening himself up to Neil. Emotionally, in sharing secrets with Neil he had had never told anyone before & learning about Neil, as well. Physically, in letting Neil touch him - even his hair - when he hadn’t ever allowed that before, either. Andrew was trying to protect himself by self-censuring, such as during Andrew & Neil’s Exites conversation pre-Hemmick Thanksgiving in TRK because it wasn’t his physical attraction to Neil that Andrew feared, but his emotional attraction. And later on that by insisting that he & Neil were nothing, Andrew could keep himself safe from losing Neil or being betrayed by Neil. But all of that self-protection was for nothing when Neil got kidnapped & it would have destroyed Andrew if Neil had actually been killed in Baltimore.
Andrew wouldn’t have killed himself, however. Andrew doesn’t strike me as the kind of character who is actively suicidal - meaning planning and then attempting a suicide attempt. He has always been more passively suicidal - meaning that he doesn’t see life worth living, and as Nora has described, used to count down the seconds of the day basically waiting to die. He would engage in self-destructive behaviours involving not taking his health seriously: over-drinking, smoking, drunk-driving & speeding. Even when Andrew arranged to be in a deadly car crash to kill Tilda, Andrew wasn’t planning on dying, he just wasn’t valuing his own life or taking the risk to his own life seriously.
And that’s how he would return to being if Neil died (and I would argue at any point in their lives). As Nora said, “Andrew would never let anyone or anything else in… [Neil isn’t something he can recover from]… [Neil] was wanting something for himself when Andrew knew better than to want anything.” She then goes on to say that Neil’s death would, “destroy Andrew’s relationship with everyone in his life, up to including Bee.” And this is Andrew who has only opened himself up to wanting - now imagine if he had spent decades wanting Neil & finally feeling safe with the life he had built.
Side note: this is also why I can’t take Break Up & Make Up Andrew/Neil very seriously. Andrew would not just return to “normal” if he lost Neil even via a break up & continue hooking up with other men. Andrew is a highly codependent person - see his deal for Aaron that he breaks FOR Neil & then precedes to transfer all his codependent tendencies onto Neil as his “reason to live” - and the fact that if Neil had died only a FEW MONTHS into their relationship would have completely destroyed Andrew, it’s impossible to deny just how much Neil means to him.
[Also what Nora herself said on Andrew & Neil ever breaking up: “But once Nathaniel is laid to rest that’s pretty much it, there’s no going back. The only things that could break them up are things neither of them would ever consider doing–Neil spilling Andrew’s secrets & belittling them, or Andrew killing one of the original Foxes–so they’re guaranteed to make it work the rest of their lives.
They deserve that much, at least, considering what it took them to get to this point.
Til death do us part.”]
This is how close they are. I’ve noticed since The Odyssey came out some people have been using homophrosyne to describe Andrew/Neil and I completely agree - although I do think Andrew’s crash-out at losing Neil would be far more comparable to when Achilles lost Patroclus, but I digress.
It’s funny, as well b/c when Nora was asked about if Neil had chosen someone else over Andrew (also just to clarify this was a speculative question, not something ever actually considered to be Canon/Canon possible), Nora also said this, “Neil gave Andrew an anchor and a focal point for his life, something worth fighting for and waking up for. If you take that away from him, then there’s nothing else, and Andrew’s learned yet again that it’s not worth the effort to want anything. He’d shut down emotionally, and no one would have the key to open him up again.” Andrew really is out here investing every bit of himself in the first person he felt romantically attracted to at the age of NINETEEN. Personally, love this for Andrew. Most fascinating character of all time, truly comparable to Hua Cheng.
And then if Andrew didn’t have Neil, and his deal with Kevin was fulfilled b/c Neil was alive & had made the deal with Ichirou, Neil just wasn’t with Andrew, then, “he’d be done with all of them [The Monsters]. [Andrew] would be adrift, counting down the seconds of existence like he always had… surviving, but not living, not really, and going home alone to a house in Columbia with only drinks for company.” And this is why I cannot abide by any AFTG analysis that tries to suggest Andrew would be okay without Neil when every fact to the contrary suggests that Andrew would be absolutely miserable forever without Neil. [And I'm selfish & love Andrew, so why would any of y'all wanna do this to him??]
Nora then says about Neil dying that the, “only thing that would keep Andrew putting one foot in front of the other would be his promise to Kevin." (so perhaps losing Neil COULD potentially make Andrew actively suicidal if he didn’t have any deals to focus on such as if Kevin no longer needed his protection - remember his deal with Aaron would end at graduation).
Nora says that Andrew would feel obligated to get the Foxes to finals - in Neil’s memory - while actively hating Exy more than ever for reminding him of Neil. And she also said Andrew would hate himself, as well: for letting himself get hurt, for losing Neil - and this I think would be equally traumatic for Andrew because I don’t think he would have cared enough about himself to have hated himself before losing Neil. Everything else would for Andrew would be ice: a true nothing - feeling nothing, nothing matters, nothing is important.
And then Nora finishes with this tragedy: without Neil to make a deal with Ichirou, Jean remains with the Ravens & Riko remains alive. And Kevin remains afraid his entire life, requiring Andrew to watch his back - an Andrew who is even more joyless than before, who Kevin will never fulfill his promise to because there is no longer anything for Andrew to build his life around with Neil. Until Andrew finally dies.
Andrew’s relationships with his family: Nicky & Aaron would undoubtedly be terrible and he and Aaron would never recover enough to become brothers through therapy with Betsy, and his friendship with Kevin an obligation that Andrew would grow to resent the longer it kept Andrew alive - we also know Andrew’s reaction to Kevin keeping Neil’s secrets when he knew Neil had lived (strangling Kevin). I imagine his reaction would have been ten-times as worse if Neil had died.
Now, even if Neil died in the FAR future and not in Baltimore, I genuinely think Andrew’s devastation at Neil’s death wouldn’t be any different. Because the thing to remember is that Andrew specifically finds life enjoyable because his life is intertwined with Neil’s. I know some readers like the idea that Andrew just has a soft-spot for cats, but Nora once answered that it’s not the cats themselves that Andrew is attached to, he becomes attached to them for being his & Neil’s cats. They are part of Neil, he is taking care of them with Neil. Exy becomes fun because he is playing with Neil - Andrew & Neil are always transferred to the same team by Andrew’s third year going Pro. Sex becomes safe and enjoyable because Andrew is having sex with Neil, who he loves & trusts.
If Andrew has a super crash-out if Neil died after a year of knowing him, I cannot imagine the fallout being any better if Neil died ten, twenty, thirty or even forty years after Andrew has built a life with him. Kevin obviously would no longer require Andrew’s protection, so Andrew also wouldn’t have that obligation to keep him being only passively suicidal instead of actively suicidal. Nicky would be in Germany with Erik, and while his relationship with Aaron would probably be good, Aaron would also be married to Katelyn with or without children depending on which of Nora’s answers you like better.
I think Andrew would continue taking care of their cats - out of an obligation to Neil as they are still a living part of Neil, although I’m sure Andrew at that point would also love the cats in his own way. But after the cats also passed on, I don’t think Andrew would adopt any more. Not without Neil - not when he would have the memories of adopting cats with Neil. If Andrew was still playing Pro Exy at the time of Neil’s death, he would retire immediately. As we know Andrew is trying to quit smoking (for Neil, good for you Jean - you knew exactly where to hit to make Andrew take his health more seriously) but he would undoubtedly take it up again if Neil died: no reason to care about running to protect someone if that person is dead. Perhaps he would even want the same reminder Neil wishes to have of Mary. Andrew would also undoubtedly begin drinking too much, and likely shut himself away from most people. If he didn’t want to build connections with people if Neil were to die before he & Andrew really built a life together, Andrew certainly wouldn’t want to be building connections with others AFTER he and Neil had build a life together. I don’t think Andrew is the type to try to “move on” when his partner dies.
Some may argue that Andrew would be “better healed” in the future to move on from Neil. I won’t get into it now how I disagree with a lot of “healed” Andrew takes that I think far too drastically change his characterization and that "healed" is often used to mean "becomes socially normal" but… a lot of the healing Andrew DOES do in Canon is for other people, particularly Neil. Andrew is not canonically choosing to live for himself. He is choosing to live for Neil & their relationship & the joy he finds in it. Take Neil away from Andrew, and what’s left?
Thinking about Andrew and Neil and the “it’s always yes with you thing” and thinking about how Neil doesn’t say that because he constantly wants to fuck Andrew or anything like how Andrew seems to interpret it (talking about the “dont always me”) but because he trusts and knows that Andrew will never ask for more than he’s willing to give you know and I think that’s a core part of their relationship the give and take because it’s easier for Andrew to view relationships as transactional because it guarantees that whatever he needs from that person will be there because he’s owed it (even if that’s often not the case it’s a mental reassurance that allows Andrew to let himself in some capacity get closer to people) and I just think the amount of trust between the two of them is so sweet because even after Neil breaks his deal he tells Andrew “it’s always yes with you” he’s still willing to be there for Andrew even without that transactional reassurance that Andrew often needed not to mention Neil helping the twinyards break their deal too because I think it goes further than making the twins talk to eachother and getting Katlyn to pressure Aaron, Andrew agrees because Neil is asking him to get his shit together, because Neil who’s stayed even after learning all that shit about him has stayed and has faith that Aaron will stay too GRAHHHHskfjfkoa i should keep writing my all for nothing fic
at what point do you think kevin realised (if he realised at all) that tetsuji was the one to have his mum killed. do you think he knew from the start, or was it a realisation further down the line?
maybe when he’d finally accepted his mum’s death, tetsuji brought it up when punishing kevin. and then kevin had to re-grieve his mum through the lens of murder while her murderer stands over his shoulder.
imagine it was during a press appearance where kevin stepped out of line and to reign him in, tetsuji tells him. and then kevin has to smile and answer questions in front of the cameras with tetsuji, his current abuser and the only family he has (aside from riko, his other abuser) stands beside him. knowing he killed his mum. (bonus points if the interviewer then asks how he’s coping with his mums death)
On my ?th reread of aftg and i just realized that andrew got the fancy cars because AARON IS INTO CARS!!!!! When they get back with the mas and everyone sees it, matt is very very obviously gushing over the car, but neil mentions aaron twitching like he wanted to touch it. Bro does everything for other people, he is such a softie.
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