third secret thing

i'm here for content and occasional opportunities to share my opinion | my english is bad but at least my opinions are based | she/they

[howlionj]

not to be mean or anything but westerners lacks basic understanding of how real dictatorship works and none of them have enough empathy even phantom the concept

[howlionj]

and i'm not talking about structures or instructions of it but an social and cultural influence on people inside

[howlionj]

not to be mean or anything but westerners lacks basic understanding of how real dictatorship works and none of them have enough empathy even phantom the concept

[astheforcewillsit]

loving Eli Vanto is also reconciling with the fact that he would 100% be on an Imperial Star destroyer absolutely decimating Rebel fleets and ordering Imperial Occupation of an innocent world lol

Eli's brainwashing is such an interesting, not talked about aspect of Star Wars.

[handbaskethell]

I don't think he was brainwashed. I think Thrawn realized this. It was one of the reasons (of a few I can think of) he asked Eli to go to the Ascendancy.

Eli was never fanatical about the Empire itself. He disliked the Imperial elites, had a cynical/realistic view of navy command structure, got extremely uncomfortable at some of the things the Empire was doing that he'd believed the Empire was better than (slavery). He stuck around for Thrawn. Ultimately, he was loyal to Thrawn, not the Empire. Likely another reason Thrawn asked him to go to the Ascendancy.

Eli wasn't around for the full on Rebellion, all he ever saw was pockets of insurgency who were led by a guy who tried to kill him once so I mean...I wouldn't be thrilled about it either. I'd like to hope he'd struggle between his loyalty to Thrawn vs. defection. In Thrawn treason, he doesn't really consider himself an Imperial anymore.

Eli seems to be a man of integrity to me. A man that stood up for Thrawn even though he resented Thrawn just because it was the right thing to do. He thought about betraying Thrawn multiple times but never did because he knew it was shitty. That was kind of the point of his character, I think. Other than being the audience stand-in/Watson.

Thanks for coming to my TED talk I guess.

[ezri-is-real]

After recently going through all the books again, yeah, agreed! Even his „space racism“ in the beginning is based more on the fear of the Chiss based on wild space legends. I think if Thrawn hadnt come along, Eli would have defected to the Rebellion sooner or later, after the first deathstar incident at the very latest.

[astheforcewillsit]

I posted a rebuttal to this. But if Eli isn't brainwashed by Imperial standards, than he willingly works for an organization who he is fully aware of endorses slavey and attacks innocent worlds--Eli being in a position that endorses as least the latter.

I don't believe he would have defected, considering he's in the Chiss Ascendancy and still considers himself loyal to the Empire. Eli is also loyal to Thrawn, who is a Grand Admiral.

I posted a longer rebuttle after the cut, as to why I think he may be brainwashed but if not, he's just still willingly in the Empire and working on a mission from a Grand Admiral.

Even Kallus defected after he realized what the Empire was doing was wrong. Eli didn't And that's not saying Eli's a bad character. I love him, but liking him is also acknowledging he's apart of the most antagonistic institute in Star Wars, and he is still loyal to it and has done little to stop the Empire from doing wrong. In fact, Eli's done the exact opposite.

I think I may agree to disagree. Because while Eli isn't fully brainwashed by the Empire, he still willingly serves it despite his misgivings of it.

At the beginning of the book he refers to the Jedi as traitors, fights to have a high ranking in an institution that endorses slavery, and despises rebels despite the fact that their homes are being invaded.

While yes, the rebels attempted to kill Eli, he's also familiar with their reasonings as to why they did what they did. Even in Thrawn treason, Eli wonders if he's more loyal to the Empire or the Chiss. He's with the Chiss because of an Imperial Order, sanctioned by Thrawn and the Emperor.

He's not fully brainwashed, but he willingly partakes in an organization that hurts a lot of innocent people, and Eli himself took part in this as a commander or at least endorsed it.

Everything he did to a point benefited the Empire, and that hurt innocent people and El is aware that the Empire is not morally good.

He will not question Thrawn, who is loyal to the Empire.

I think the best part about Eli is that while he's a protagonist to us, in the grand scheme of Star Wars, he's not. He's an antagonist because he willingly aligns himself with the Empire, because that's all he knows. And that makes for a very complex individual.

And even when meeting the rebels or being exposed to varying opinions against the Empire that shows just how bad it is, Eli is still loyal to it.

If we don't want to reconcile that he's brainwashed, then we have to reconcile that he's making a choice to willingly follow someone who's very existence in the Empire hurts and oppresses people. Both suck, but that's just who Eli is.

Furthermore, he's loyal to Tharwn who is a literal Grand Admiral. He is loyal to an Imperial above all else, and does not question Thrawn's methods which directly harm a slew of innocent people. In fact Eli endorses them at times, due to his blind loyalty.

[howlionj]

Eli is example how exactly liable people acts in authoritarian/totalitarian regimes. Vantos worked for the empire as traders, they sent him to naval school for networking purposes.

He himself does not really care about global politics or morality of regime because he grew up in backwaters of galaxy and he's loyal to close people not structures or institutions. He'd be fine with working under either the empire or the republic if that'd make his family's business profitable. It's because he lacks strong political and moral principles, but stood strong on family matters.

I mean he was more sad about his friends and family reputations after his disappearance and i believe because it was very damaging for his network inside the empire.

[graser1112]

I think this ends up being the fundamental issue with the 2010’s Thrawn trilogy (keep in mind, I have not read Ascendancy yet, and I’ve not read the 90’s on since middle school). We’re presented with characters like Eli and Faro and even Thrawn sometimes who the narrative so desperately wants us to see as “good people” but the books never really reckon with the fact that they’re all in a fascist military.

Like, Zahn could have written a story about how “good people” are able to justify serving in a totalitarian fascist regime. But, he didn’t do that. The man who received Star Wars somehow paints serving the Empire as a morally upright thing to do, and it drives me insane!

[howlionj]

I'm gonna be real with this one take, because maybe it's just my experience or worldview, but Thrawn never really showed us a 'good people' inside Empire. Like, I'm sorry to inform you, but this is exactly how living inside fascism/nazism looks like when you're not actually against it, even if you're one who manages a warship. Everybody in these books are corrupted or lacks empathy, but scariest part is that nobody cares. Literally no one. It's their duty.

They don't need to justify their work for the Empire, because fascism of it is like a background noise. It's here all the time, sometimes louder than usual, but still. Because, let me remind you, a lot of people serve Empire because it's fastest and safest social elevator.

This is why you should actually be a bit terrified about Thrawn and Ascendancy trilogies: evil is in mundane things. War is a mundane thing.

[howlionj]

call me biased but i believe that in ghosts remake rorke should be portrayed by yura borisov

i'm not gonna explain myself just believe me

[inactive-flesh]

markaplier would be a better fit tbh

[howlionj]

i like his hair way too much but also true 😭

[howlionj]

call me biased but i believe that in ghosts remake rorke should be portrayed by yura borisov

i'm not gonna explain myself just believe me

[howlionj]

i mean,,, to get his villain vibe you need to understand deep connection between his role in anora and sergei bodrov jr. impact on post-ussr criminal dramas but you can feel it because of his bald head

[howlionj]

call me biased but i believe that in ghosts remake rorke should be portrayed by yura borisov

i'm not gonna explain myself just believe me

[howlionj]

in my alternative rorkelias, gabriel is the one who hungry for mundane civil life. i mean, it is only logical for him: he was alienated from everything ordinary his whole life, never experienced something like neighbourhood or community beyond army and never had an actual home.

he's rawdogging that all at elias' prestige suburbia and his enthusiasm are scary for the walkers to witness. elias himself is quite fond of community life in san diego, but never really liked being fully involved in it: he helps occasionally, organises sometimes bbq evenings and, of course, keeps his relationship with neighbours in good terms. and rorke. well, he went right into the game.

his first real, full summer stay started with connecting with all elderly residents. week later david told his dad that gabriel even befriended their scariest auntie, mrs. hopkins. that women can grind devil himself into the grave and suddenly she gossips with gabriel about everybody and their mothers like she knows him her whole life.

hell, their nicest elderly couple even told elias that gabriel is a good match. not like he didn't know that his partner is nice person, but them being that confident about it after only one week? actually insane.

he also befriended every suburban dad next. and those men are southerners, quite conservative and religious, but they welcomed gabriel like he's their distant relative. well, maybe rorke's career and enormous strength played some role in it, but nevertheless they are pretty chill with him being openly gay and dating their neighbour. elias kept his distance from local men's community, because he's repulsive of such traditional southern masculinity, and here is gabriel magically not only made it into the team, but also explored that they are allies. one of the dads once approached him during lawn work and told that he's good with elias' boyfriend and walkers are welcomed in the neighbourhood like before. he also hardly empathised that no one here is really against queers.

liberal part of the community also was charmed by rorke. their really nice local family with a trans son told him that gabriel is surprisingly cool. and their local lesbian couple are tolerating his presence – a big gesture, honestly. he even helped them to organise drag show for local club and charmed ladies too.

elias feels strange about this all, because, yes, he's really happy for gabriel getting used to civil life, but at the same time he can't shake off strange tension between them both. it's not about current circumstances, at least not directly, but walker sometimes gets the impression that gabriel tries that hard to fit in just to please him and his sons. he knows his partner is honest about his intentions and truly loves to be involved with community, but he's a bit performative about it too.

he's not blind and deaf, he heard from gabriel firsthand insecure remarks about being bothered and trouble, saw him shyly glancing over them with almost grievance. and then, he tries so hard to be good for them: helping with chores, listening to david's rambles and logan's messy punchlines, being sensitive and patient with elias. hell, gabriel is currently taking advanced asl classes just to speak with logan more.

and on mary's anniversary, god, he was so extra considerate and soft with them whole three days, it felt surreal. gabriel is gentle in nature, and it can be considered strange statements for one's who know him in action, but on those days he was almost biblical saint. was it because he feels himself alienated from walkers and needs to prove his worth?

they love him, truly. it might be too early for walkers to say that he's welcomed and appreciated here for the rest of his and theirs lives, but for now they want him to be a permanent part of household. maybe, they not saying it enough? or too subtle about it?

elias is lost, because for the first ten years of his life he feels love this strong. he always was protective kind of person in relationship, but with gabriel it evolved into something newly intimate: his partner doesn't need physical protection, so he tries to provide emotional support. and walker hoped before this summer stay that he was so goddamn good at this, but, clearly, rorke still hesitant about their relationship.

elias knows it's natural for trust to be slow, but now he wishes to rush it all. not because he's irritated with gabriel, but because he wants to make his partner as happy as he makes him.

[cherriielle]

grant us a Pope who doubts 🕊

[worgengel]

everything you never wanted to see

[howlionj]

love to imagine that in alternative rorkelias gabriel feels guilt for his 'invasiveness' towards walkers. so i guess a bit about that?

he loves elias, he adores his two sons and he truly enjoys a pieces of domestic life he gets from visiting them. but rorke keeps low those feelings, reminding himself daily about lines he cannot cross with them all. he's not the person for elias, even though they love each other so much, he's not a dad of logan and david, even if they are happy with him enough to spend time together. and of course, that house isn't for him to live in. he's just a visitor, an addition to walkers family.

in moments of weakness he wishes to make that life his: to be a husband and a stepdad for walkers. and he shuts down those thoughts quickly enough to not stuck in it – there's no point to dream about something that not gonna happen. and he must be thankful for what he has right now, because walkers were kind enough to let him in their life. so he makes his visits as much short as possible, to not become trouble: he comes together with elias, spends two weeks sharp with them and leaves right before mary's anniversary.

he knows that grief doesn't come and go on certain times, but he respects walkers' right to celebrate her memory with close relatives and friends. also, he didn't know her anyway. so he feels a need to leave. that's why he's in his guest room right now, packing his meager baggage.

elias comes in silently - gabriel notices him only when he sits down on chair near a wardrobe.

'how's packing up going?'

he looks bad, really bad: pale face looks much older, eyes starring blankly at nothing. walker wasn't like that their previous summer stays together, so this year's anniversary might be really tough for him. gabriel wants to shake him and ask what's wrong, but giving context it's actually not the best idea.

'you know, i don't have much, so it's easy'

'back to the base?'

'yeah'

'stay'

gabriel stops in disbelief and glares back at elias. it's might be really though for him to asking rorke to stay.

'i don't want to bother y'all'

'you are not bothering anyone'

'are you sure?'

'hell, of course i am'

no you're not, he wants to say. you're just not thinking straight, gabriel wants to add. you gonna be disappointed once you understand that i'm bother, rorke thinks. but it sounds cruel for him to say, because elias is vulnerable right now, so he can't hurt him further. well, he swore to appreciate that given, so if elias thinks he's needed here, he's gonna be here.

'do you need anything? you know, with the anniversary?'

'no, just stay with us. i don't want to drag you into this'

gabriel thinks it's stupid, because walkers are dear to him and he's ready to take everything if needed. but, again, it's about elias and boys right now, so he's not complaining.

door creeks once again, letting in david this time. he looks concerned and pale like his father, glancing worryingly at both of them with silent question.

'he's staying' elias answers.

'till the end of the summer?'

'well, i don't know. i think, you should ask him'

'rorke, would you stay with us for a whole summer?' boy moves his eyes to him.

gabriel a bit puzzled about hopefulness in his eyes – david never asks him for anything. he thought because boy was indifferent to his presence most of the times, tolerating it only because rorke is his father's partner. but now david is standing in entrance, gripping tightly to an open door, asking him to stay. like he really wants him here, with them.

'let's decide that after this week, okay?'

'oh, okay. i go then'

david sounds a little disappointed as he leaves, but content with his words nevertheless.

'they like you, you know that?'

elias finally gets up and walks towards him. he's still pale and sad, but less than before their talk. gabriel grabs his waist and presses him closer almost instinctively, like he's gonna dissolve right in front of him. small of elias' back is cold and he starts rubbing it to warm up.

'i hope so, because i love their dad and i really enjoy your big backyard'

walker snorts at his joke and smiles shyly. his arms grips rorke's shoulders strongly - he might as well leave a couple bruises on. well, at least he smiles, with blush and everything.

'no, gabriel, i'm serious: they like you'

'that's because they see me for like one month per year–'

'shut up, you're wanted and appreciated in this house, so take it'

gabriel stops mid sentence in shock. elias rarely talks to him with his 'lieutenant' voice, but every single time it makes his brain to short circuit – maybe because it's rare between them, maybe because walker just naturally born to be overpowering.

'aye, sir'

'at ease, captain'

well, gabriel is happy now. even if there's small poisonous thoughts about his unworthiness, rorke's here and now, with his partner and his kids. and maybe life he wants once will be his.

[tokillamockingbird427]

Elias would affectionately ruffle the top of anyone’s head. No he’s not petting everyone like Riley, he’s petting Riley like he pets everyone else. He would ruffle the top of Gabe’s bald ass scalp if he pleased him.

[howlionj]

he rubs that shiny skin like he genuinely believes there's something to ruffle 😭

[tokillamockingbird427]

Once he whispered “Now give me three wishes.” And it instantly sent Rorke into a blind fit of rage

[howlionj]

somehow i can see them doing that as a roleplay

[tokillamockingbird427]

Elias would affectionately ruffle the top of anyone’s head. No he’s not petting everyone like Riley, he’s petting Riley like he pets everyone else. He would ruffle the top of Gabe’s bald ass scalp if he pleased him.

[howlionj]

he rubs that shiny skin like he genuinely believes there's something to ruffle 😭

[howlionj]

currently writing light nsfw for rorkelias because i love my alternative grandpas

[tokillamockingbird427]

Nonbinary Hesh would have the most chaotic fashion sense I feel like… heels and jeans and a skirt and also a beanie??? Track jacket???? Muscle tank. It shouldn’t work but Hesh is truly so nonchalant it does. I want to draw this but it’s past my bedtime.

[howlionj]

actually have a reference in my head for this nb hesh style. it's a k-pop group ateez but ANYWAY.

i mean it's him. it's his gender.

[tokillamockingbird427]

You fell right into my trap Howl, now I have outfit inspo!!!! >:)

[howlionj]

omg let's goooo, dear!!!!!

[tokillamockingbird427]

Nonbinary Hesh would have the most chaotic fashion sense I feel like… heels and jeans and a skirt and also a beanie??? Track jacket???? Muscle tank. It shouldn’t work but Hesh is truly so nonchalant it does. I want to draw this but it’s past my bedtime.

[howlionj]

actually have a reference in my head for this nb hesh style. it's a k-pop group ateez but ANYWAY.

i mean it's him. it's his gender.

[howlionj]

logan being trans is good but what about hesh being non-binary?

i mean if you think about it he prefers 'hesh' over 'david' but still uses his government name for official documents. he's not exactly dysphoric about his appearance or body but he/them sounds more preferable for him. he likes to paint his nails time to time, uses skirts often – over jeans yes but still it counts for him – and he owns a pair of heels. he tried make up once for that one alternative party his girlfriend brought him to and he liked that. he repeated that experience a couple times just for pleasure.

he's content with himself and he feels comfort every time expressing it.

[howlionj]

it's actually crazy how transphobia is a thing among cisgender women considering how tightly our rights and autonomy are connected

like i and many women in my country experienced it firsthand and still there're transphobic women and radfems even after that

like girls it's not the vibe