Person who likes stuff

[humblydigitallocket]

Ever since the season 2 finale people seem to ignore that sera could have actually helped during the climax but in not doing so risked her sister's life and the lives of countless others.

If she'd actually gone down there and helped then her power could have no doubt been a serous help or maybe even enough to stop the bomb so why exactly are people ignoring this

And acting like she did good in the finale when really it seems like she was being a coward?

Sir pentious telling her to stay behind to be a battery just seems like a bad excuse since the hell army was obviously not about to invade at the moment when its leader was currently destroying their city

And an angelic atomic bomb was about to go off so stopping that should have been seen as the priority especially if sera does actually give a shit about her sister and proving she's changed

So the only real reason she wouldn't do that is because she's still displaying her biggest character flaw which is cowardice

So why are people not acknowledging this and acting like this is a great first step towards redemption or even enough to redeem her on its own?

If someone says that heaven has to be her priority well then I would point out that charlie has literally spent the whole season trying to help them stop the invasion

Despite her trying to have them all killed at the end of season 1 and despite the fact that by the same logic she should only give a shit about her own people

And leave heaven to have to fight them off and also sera is literally the 1 trying to claim that she feels bad and wants to do better so expecting her to actually have some actions to back it up isn't too much to ask surely,

Even valentino and velvet helped during the climax lmao and yes it was somewhat self centered but it is still a bad look that 2 of the overlords most people look down on

Were willing to step up and help and the character who everyone is praising for wanting to improve wasn't,

And I wouldn't have an issue with this remaining a lingering character flaw that her character will still need to overcome in the future

I'm fine waiting for actual development but the show does not present this to be the case nor does the fandom acknowledge it as a flaw and instead tries to twist the ending into progress for her

Rather than her continuing to showcase her biggest character flaw again it seems like the fandom has lower standards for this character

Simply because of her class and likeability and isn't actually bothered about judging her by her actions at all so if she literally did nothing for the rest of the series

I get the feeling people would still give her more credit than the majority of other characters

who get criticised way more despite doing more than she does and having done less wrong ( Just look at the shit charlie gets ).

[humblydigitallocket]

Hot take I feel like fallen sera as a concept should happen as sera remaining in heaven and not undergoing any change in her life really devalues heaven and redemption as a whole.

Redemption is supposed to be about changing your old ways of life and doing meaningful things to atone and her continuing to be in heaven doing the exact same thing she's always done with no change doesn't really sit right with me

As the "" redemption "" in this case is basically just getting away with what she did because she happens to be a likable person who was born in heaven,

And the continued presence of people like her in heaven kind of ruins heaven as a concept

Since it really isn't this paradise meant that upholds kindness and serves as a place for good people if someone can be born there and thus get special privilege in spite of their actions

So that changes it into basically just being an upper class neighbourhood to be honest and hell being the lower class 1 if your actual actions and the way you live don't matter

When it comes to who gets to be there in certain cases because you just happened to be born high up in the hierarchy,

Before anyone says "" well what about lute "" that's different she's an ongoing antagonist as confirmed by vivziepop in an interview

That's going to become worse in future and get some sort of comeuppance either dying or getting cast out for her actions in future

But that's different from sera whose current position in the show most people want to remain stagnant rather than change or grow in any sort of way even though redemption is meant to involve change and growth

That's kind of the defining difference between a redeemed antagonist and an antagonist that is just a karma houdini,

And sera willingly falling to actually go down and do work to atone in hell would be an actual action that would show meaningful change in character by her

Not just staying in the same spot she's comfortable in continuing to leave the hard work to emily and others while feeling good about herself for simply not stopping them like we see in the final shots of heaven in season 2 lmao

Where everyone else is working while she's just sitting on her ass when she could actually be doing things with her presumably high level of power as a seraphim to actually do good,

( Also the problem is she was literally the only heaven higher up who okayed the exterminations so her staying in power only benefits herself by keeping her in the rich lifestyle she was born into

Rather than passing it over to people who can actually be trusted which would also work as a good gesture to hell to reassure them this won't ever happen again

Rather than acting as though hell should just have to be okay with no accountability in heaven simply because the person who did it was there and thus her personal feelings matter more than her victims ),

And instead she can be out there actually trying to help the people she wronged Wether its with redemption or just helping certain people in hell be less miserable in their vices

Like angel dust who I feel may be miserable in his current situation of porn and drug addiction

But is the sort of person who would actually prefer hell so long as he can still maybe see his sister sometimes and can be free of valentino and cope better with his vices,

And I know people bring up the question of who would run heaven instead and frankly I don't think that's relevant the answer is it can literally be anyone be it a character/characters we know or 1 that we don't

But using this sort of hyper logic to try and write the show out of having characters do meaningful things or change just seems weird as you could literally do that with anyone

You could also say its not logical for charlie to even be as kind and empathetic as she is given the place she grew up in and basically write the show's entire premise out of existence with this logic lmao

We haven't seen enough of heaven and the other higher ups to presume no one else can take the role or can be trusted with it

Since all evidence points to sera being the 1 bad apple in the higher up roles given she had to act in secrecy with adam,

And sera's character staying in heaven and not actually doing anything herself to show meaningful change or atonement would be as terrible as if the show had vox redeem himself

By simply not hurting people anymore and then nothing else changing about his tech ceo overlord role in hell

And he instantly gets forgiven by all of the main cast and is chums with them or alastor or valentino or velvet etc etc etc

But it feels as though a lot of fans are rather averse to the idea of sera's character changing in any way but you shouldn't be afraid of that or want the character remain stagnant

Especially in a show built around redemption which by nature has to involve people changing and not just staying exactly the same.

[shana-reviews-tmblr]

I can kind of see where youre coming from and i think if Sera would fall it would be less of her own volition and more she was force too because too many negative effects from her choice to allow the exterminations is coming back to haunt everyone and affect heaven which gets the attention of those who might be above Sera, or Lute causes a Red Scare in heaven turning winners against each other or any redeemers who come to heaven, thus the failure is blamed on sera and she is sent by maybe the 7 holy virtues down to hell as a fallen.

One idea I've had is that a possible way to have this cake and eat it is if a body swap sotuation happens.

Hear me out.

We know lilith wasnt around to see heaven changing its ways, to her, heaven is still a place of hypocrite privileged, jerks, and she blames sera for everything, despite Sera'sattempt to apologize, lilith doesnt accept it.

If lilith turns out to be, like Erika said in an interview, like charlie where she is so deadset on her goals that it can hurt even her loved ones, i imagine Lilith will want to punish sera while also try to show charlie that heaven isnt a place sinners should go to, since why change for a place that didnt want you.

Liliths plan would be to get someone who works for her to go to heaven and have enough influence to change heaven, in her mind doing this will show how hypocritical they are since if they were so good, why did they change so fast?

So to do this she recruits the Vees and gets Velvette to swap with Sera when she calls Sera down and pretends she wants to talk. With Velvette as Sera in heaven she can use her talents as an influencer to corrupt heaven and we see some winners prove lilith is right.

Meanwhile, while Sera is trapped in hell as Velvette she experiences what the conditions sinners have being in hell when she meets with the workers under Velvette and learn how she treats them.

Because i dont think we ever got confirmation if Sera knows what an overlord is, she just knows that some sinners are power hungry and violent, but to learn there is a system in hell that enslaves souls, it might be the push she needs to really do what she can to not just support the hotel but to ensure heaven is a place that will welcome souls because she was put into a position where she owned souls and it terrified her, even though lilith initially did this to Sera to make her feel as helpless as she felt when adam had her in heaven for 7 years and probably had it so lilith couldnt talk to her family and endure all his boasting about how he killed her people.

Theres plenty of nuance hellaverse brings to heaven and hell, but i think at this point, and with Sera's character arc, which has been confirmed to not be over after s2, having sera fall would be overkill on the stories part.

Sera is already punishing herself enough with the guilt she feels and her supporting emily and the hotel, especially from her position is the best help she can give. To force her to go to hell and work off the debt feels like its being cruel and leaves sort of a power vaccum for someone to step in and probably mishandle things more.

Sera being in her position as of now, is more helpful then her being forced into a prison.

Redemption is not a 1 solution solves all and it comes in many ways.

For Sera her redemption at the moment is her atoning by using her position to ensure what happened with the exterminations never happens again and that a place like the hotel still stands as a beacon of hope for souls who dont want to stay in hell.

[humblydigitallocket]

The issue with that thinking is that well for 1 guilt is not meant to be a get out of jail free card since it is not an active choice on any person's part its just a choice our brains make for us

So judging by it and given them special privileges because of it is very unfair and 2 heaven has done nothing to make us think that someone else could potentially be worse in sera's role

From what we've been shown sera was the 1 bad apple in the leadership roles so no her staying in her role to prevent someone possibly worse doesn't make sense

It just comes across more as a way for the show and her fans to shield her from having to actually change and work to redeem herself the same way we would expect any other character to,

This type of logic makes more sense applying it to overlord characters since hell has been established in general as a place filled with people who love the chance to take a powerful position and do bad with it

So of an overlord did change their ways in the future then there is a good argument to be made that they are better off staying in their position and doing good with it for regular people in hell

But this same logic can't be applied to heaven or sera given the way it has been portrayed,

So sera simply staying in her old position with nothing changing in her life and her only redemptive action being giving up something that she didn't even like doing in the first place

And simply not stopping other people like emily and charlie from doing good would not be redemption it would just be getting away with a crime due to her happening to be born into privilege

Which is just classism but framed as a good thing because the person happens to be likable why should other people have to work for redemption and have change to their lives

But not this woman who has done worse crimes than probably the majority of people in hell simply because she was born in heaven and was basically born upperclass?

I'm sorry but I've heard these points all before and it really does just come across as sera being a fandom favourite and the fans not wanting to see her character actually change at all or struggle and suffer

And be treated the same as other antagonists who may be redeemed in future I think the issue is the fandom already liked her for who she was in season 1

So people don't want her to change anything about herself at all but frankly redemption has to involve change and effort otherwise its not redemption its just being a villain who got away with it.

[humblydigitallocket]

Why do some people act like stolas doesn't ever suffer for his actions and make out like the show only ever makes blitzo suffer?

If you are talking about emotional suffering then well he's seen through season 1 and 2 being a lonely mess while dealing with his divorce and and depression

And the fact that he doesn't have an actual loving relationship with blitzo

And if your talking about external consequences then he gets kidnapped and tortured almost to death by a hitman as a direct result of his 1 night stand cheating on his wife

And he ends up having to lose his status and reputation and home and powers and even his daughter as a result of having to save blitzo because of the deal they made,

So how do people figure that he's never made to suffer by the story and act like the show only ever males blitzo suffer?

If anything you could potentially argue that stolas has suffered more during the main show but that's technically a different topic I guess.

[humblydigitallocket]

If the theories about vox redemption do come true then I would be interested to see how the show would handle his relationship with velvet and valentino afterwards.

If the fan theories about him undergoing a redemption in future do come true then there is a few different ways it could go with his relationship with val and velvet

The most obvious option is that something happens that forces the group to disband such as 1 or 2 of them dying and either vox is the sole survivor

Or he and the surviving 1 simply part ways afterwards and go down different paths,

But I would like it more if it was the case that both of the other vees are still alive and well since I think that's a more interesting thing for a vox redemption arc to have to deal with

Such as he might end up becoming a better person and actually using his overlord position to improve things as much as 1 person can

For average hell people and refusing to work with the other vees so long as they continue doing the things the way that they do

Ending the business side of their relationships but trying to keep the personal 1 he may try and get them to see what he's seen since his humbling defeat in season 2

And wants them to do better while they remain cynical of his new self and want to stay as they are,

Or he may end up cutting them off for good despite how hard it is for him emotionally which would be sort of interesting in saying something about cutting off people who you might genuinely really care about

But have to because they are toxic influences on you and help bring out your worst self,

Whatever way they go I feel this is 1 of the most interesting things to think about when it comes to the vox redemption theory given how much season 2 showed us of the vees dynamic.

[humblydigitallocket]

Hot take I feel like fallen sera as a concept should happen as sera remaining in heaven and not undergoing any change in her life really devalues heaven and redemption as a whole.

Redemption is supposed to be about changing your old ways of life and doing meaningful things to atone and her continuing to be in heaven doing the exact same thing she's always done with no change doesn't really sit right with me

As the "" redemption "" in this case is basically just getting away with what she did because she happens to be a likable person who was born in heaven,

And the continued presence of people like her in heaven kind of ruins heaven as a concept

Since it really isn't this paradise meant that upholds kindness and serves as a place for good people if someone can be born there and thus get special privilege in spite of their actions

So that changes it into basically just being an upper class neighbourhood to be honest and hell being the lower class 1 if your actual actions and the way you live don't matter

When it comes to who gets to be there in certain cases because you just happened to be born high up in the hierarchy,

Before anyone says "" well what about lute "" that's different she's an ongoing antagonist as confirmed by vivziepop in an interview

That's going to become worse in future and get some sort of comeuppance either dying or getting cast out for her actions in future

But that's different from sera whose current position in the show most people want to remain stagnant rather than change or grow in any sort of way even though redemption is meant to involve change and growth

That's kind of the defining difference between a redeemed antagonist and an antagonist that is just a karma houdini,

And sera willingly falling to actually go down and do work to atone in hell would be an actual action that would show meaningful change in character by her

Not just staying in the same spot she's comfortable in continuing to leave the hard work to emily and others while feeling good about herself for simply not stopping them like we see in the final shots of heaven in season 2 lmao

Where everyone else is working while she's just sitting on her ass when she could actually be doing things with her presumably high level of power as a seraphim to actually do good,

( Also the problem is she was literally the only heaven higher up who okayed the exterminations so her staying in power only benefits herself by keeping her in the rich lifestyle she was born into

Rather than passing it over to people who can actually be trusted which would also work as a good gesture to hell to reassure them this won't ever happen again

Rather than acting as though hell should just have to be okay with no accountability in heaven simply because the person who did it was there and thus her personal feelings matter more than her victims ),

And instead she can be out there actually trying to help the people she wronged Wether its with redemption or just helping certain people in hell be less miserable in their vices

Like angel dust who I feel may be miserable in his current situation of porn and drug addiction

But is the sort of person who would actually prefer hell so long as he can still maybe see his sister sometimes and can be free of valentino and cope better with his vices,

And I know people bring up the question of who would run heaven instead and frankly I don't think that's relevant the answer is it can literally be anyone be it a character/characters we know or 1 that we don't

But using this sort of hyper logic to try and write the show out of having characters do meaningful things or change just seems weird as you could literally do that with anyone

You could also say its not logical for charlie to even be as kind and empathetic as she is given the place she grew up in and basically write the show's entire premise out of existence with this logic lmao

We haven't seen enough of heaven and the other higher ups to presume no one else can take the role or can be trusted with it

Since all evidence points to sera being the 1 bad apple in the higher up roles given she had to act in secrecy with adam,

And sera's character staying in heaven and not actually doing anything herself to show meaningful change or atonement would be as terrible as if the show had vox redeem himself

By simply not hurting people anymore and then nothing else changing about his tech ceo overlord role in hell

And he instantly gets forgiven by all of the main cast and is chums with them or alastor or valentino or velvet etc etc etc

But it feels as though a lot of fans are rather averse to the idea of sera's character changing in any way but you shouldn't be afraid of that or want the character remain stagnant

Especially in a show built around redemption which by nature has to involve people changing and not just staying exactly the same.

[humblydigitallocket]

I feel this may be somewhat of a hot take but I think Isaak Sirko was 1 of the eviler villains in dexter and worse than people give him credit for compared to other villains.

Even though his actions may seem a lot lesser compared to other villains given his kill count at least his confirmed 1 is relatively small by this show's standards

And my main point for why I feel this way can be pretty easy to ignore given how likable ray stevenson's great performance makes him

But the main point for why I feel he's 1 of the eviler villains is that unlike a lot of others as far as we know nothing really made him this way,

Isaak was a ruthless killer and businessman and unlike other villains we're not given anything about his past or present that contributed to explaining why he is the way that he is

All we know is that he grew up likely middle to upper class given he was sent to a posh boarding school by his father after he shoved a teacher down some stairs just for giving him a bad grade,

So unlike other major villains like brian or trinity or miguel or leon he doesn't seem to have been partly shaped into what he is by undergoing tragedy and or abuse in his earlier life

And unlike characters like travis and oliver he doesn't seem to have any sort of mental illness that effects his view on reality or his own empathy levels

And thus effects his own understanding of his actions to an extent since isaak seems to understand his actions and still have a good understanding of love and empathy just fine,

To be clear that's not me saying any of these things excuse those characters they are still terrible people but it at least explains why they are terrible people to an extent

But with isaak there isn't really any explanation like this his only sympathetic aspects like his grief over his partner are things that sure people may be able to feel bad for him over

But they are also things that don't actually explain why he is the way that he is since he was already everything that he was prior to losing to viktor,

So he technically falls into a similar category to villains like jordan chase where he just seems to be a bad person simply because he is rather than because of any sort of negative life experience or psychological disorders,

So even though his actions do fall short of a lot of other major villains in the show and may not seem as bad I do feel isaak is actually 1 of the worse villains in terms of being a bad person

Because he's simply a bad person because he chose to be and has no real explanation beyond that for why he was the bad person that he was.

[humblydigitallocket]

The myth of consensual stolitz sex lmao.

[humblydigitallocket]

I think too many people want the show to go way too easy on sera when it comes to her redemption.

I think when it comes to talk of her redemption a lot of the fandom seems to display favouritism by having a very low expectation of what they think it should actually entail

Given from what I've seen ever since season 1 even before the character's arc officially started

Many many people seem to want the character's atonement be simply giving better orders that's it from what people say they don't seem to want the character to undergo any drastic changes to her life

Or current relationships or job title or see her have any major atoning actins or consequences or anything of the such,

And I think that's an issue because people want this very relaxed redemption for sera

Where she's objectively being shown favour compared to pretty much every other being in the universe simply because she happened to be born higher up in the heaven hierarchy

So people have no issue with her redeeming herself for genocide with very little effort or change or hard work on her part

While others who may have not done anything that caused anywhere near as much harm and may have also even had their own reasons beyond just doing evil for evil's sake

Yet are required to undergo drastic change to their lives and put in work hell sir pentious had to literally commit the ultimate self sacrifice to redeem himself for simply not reporting a crime

Yet a character who knowingly gave the orders to kill 1.000s of people simply has to utter some words to redeem herself because of where she happened to be born and what position she was born into?

This is why I say I honestly feel like this fandom has a classism issue when it comes to sera

But its an issue the fandom doesn't view as a negative thing simply because she's likable but if she had the exact same actions

But instead had the obnoxious personality of someone like mimzy or chaz then I feel like a lot of the fandom wouldn't be as okay with the character getting this type of treatment compared to other characters in universe when it comes to redemption,

So I very much hope vivziepop goes in a direction opposite to what most fans seem to want for this character

And actually shows redemption as being something that shouldn't differ this drastically when it comes to class

And someone like sera should not have lower expectations of them than we have for someone like sir pentious or angel dust or even fellow angel vaggi who is a very good example of genuine redemption

Given the changes to her life she underwent and the meaningful actions and actual work she puts in to do good in present day

And on a daily basis so we and the characters in universe should have the same sort of expectation for sera regardless of what role she happened to be born into in the heaven hierarchy.

[humblydigitallocket]

Do you think loona has ever opened up to blitzo about her past over the years?

Obviously he knows where she comes from and likely went through some shit

But I am curious as to wether loona has ever opened up much about her particular experiences over the years

Or wether she has always remained pretty secretive about her past even as she's become more comfortable around blitzo

but she may still see certain things as stuff she doesn't want to dredge up or have anyone else know for any number of reasons

From worrying about pity or about possible judgment or even just preferring to try and forget I would be curious to know about this in the future.

[humblydigitallocket]

Okay be honest if any of these characters did decide to stop being bad in future and just live their lives then would you accept that as an outcome?

Would you accept any of these characters simply stopping doing evil and living normal lives

Or even just getting on with their regular lives but minus the killing and hurting people bit as a resolution to their character?

No big flashy displays of self sacrifice or overt torture or back breaking labour to make up for their pasts again you can be honest lmao that's the whole point of the discussion,

( For clarification the point is redemption as a concept is vague and means different things to different people

So considering a lot of the fandom seems to be fine with the idea of sera's redemption

Not involving any consequences or change to her current life and simply stopping her actions is enough

I want to know if people would feel the same way about the other major antagonists/villainous characters? in short would it be redemption in your eyes? ).

[humblydigitallocket]

I don't know if this take is hot or cold but i don't want striker to have a sob story.

Striker is petty and full of himself and talks a big game about himself and presents this certain image to the world of the dark brooding badass loner

Who has this hatred of royalty and hates the way lower class are treated but he never really lives up to this image in practice with his actions

And often gets that view shattered when he gets beaten and humiliated and in showing he has no real principles that actually matter given how he abandons them almost every chance he gets,

And I think that's perfectly fine as he is he's a very funny example of a villain who likes to think he's the cool mysterious badass type of figure

but in reality seems more like the sort of person who would write fanfiction of himself having this dark edgy backstory that made him into who he is

Rather than him actually having 1 in my opinion but it won't be the end of the world for me if they go this route

But I hope that they don't since I don't really think striker is the sort of villain who needs a sob story

Since it seems like it would kind of clash with the comedic aspect of his character being someone who is mostly a faker,

Maybe his hatred of royals is just down to 1 of them breaking his gameboy when he was a child or stealing his high school sweetheart away from him lmao.

[humblydigitallocket]

Barb being let off the hook really ticks me off to be honest and feels like its portraying a pretty bad message.

Barb's actions were both extreme and not really excusable or defendable given how shallow her motives were

Yet in the end she gets a happy ending and the trolls all act fine with her again and in the holiday special she gives a bit of a weak sounding I feel about this and apparently went on a tour to apologise off screen,

But this feels like a pretty good guide on how not to redeem a villain to be honest as barb's character did everything wrong from attacking cities of her own species

And imprisoning countless people and attempting to destroy all other cultures and turn people into rock zombies for the rest of their lives

And having very weak motives for doing this and having multiple chances where she could have chosen to stop and didn't even after the strings were destroyed she instead of owning up to her actions tried to shift the blame onto poppy,

So she is just as bad as other villains and deserved to face consequences just as much as velvet and veneer and chef did

But instead she just gets let off scott free despite not really earning it which Is where I feel the movie is sending a bad message,

And I've seen some people defend this by saying its down to her being a princess and the leader of her tribe but in my opinion that sends an even worse message

Since it is an unfortunate thing about reality that people who happened to be born in privilege and power a lot of times get away with terrible things and are held to different standards from other people

But the movie portrays barb's ending as a happy and positive thing so if it is in fact the case that she is treated differently from other villains due to her status she was born into

Then that's a terrible message to send to kids that people getting away with extreme crimes because of their privilege is in fact a good thing,

Some people might mention gristle also getting let off for trying to cause a genocide when he was a king

Which I don't think is entirely unfair but he did at least choose to do good in the end and give up on his plan unlike barb who remained defiant to the bitter end even after the music was gone

And until her plan was entirely prevented and only stopped when the music was brought back by others

But if she had gotten her own way then most of her species would be enslaved forever and their cultures would have been destroyed,

So I don't think any way you look at the ending makes this a good writing choice because she's either let off the hook simply because she was rendered harmless

Or she's let off the hook because of her privilege and her only redeeming action took place entirely off screen after the movie so its just not a good redemption or even a redemption at all to be honest.

[humblydigitallocket]

Can we admit the fandom accusing other characters of only having big fandoms due to shallow reasons is bullshit when these 2 are so universally popular?

I'm not meaning to shame anyone for liking them but it does bother me when people accuse other characters of only having large fandoms due to shallow reasons like attractiveness when these 2 are so universally popular

But have next to no depth or growth or anything of the like yet their fandom's never get this type of critique

Even though lets be honest the speaker is not so popular after such a short amount of screen time because people find her a deep and complex character

Or because she had interesting growth lmao they just like her because they see her as a hot mommy figure ( I'm not even joking this is literally most of the types of talk I see when it comes to her fans gushing over her ),

And emily is not so universally liked because she is a complex and flawed and multi faced character it is because people just find her cute and maybe sort of funny at times

Which isn't a bad thing I like niffty for the same reason but I don't see people claiming that niffty being cute and funny makes her 1 of the best characters

And even makes her a better written character than characters who actually have depth and multiple layers,

And it especially ticks me off when fans joke or even criticise the fandom's of certain characters like loona or lute

Accusing them of only having large or any fandom due to shallow reasons like hotness

Even though they have actual depth and in loona's case some actual development and growth meaning that unlike emily and speaker

There's way more valid reasons for these characters to have large fandoms than there is for these 2

Who may be likable or cute or a little funny but in terms of depth are so 1d that if you placed them on the ground it would be very hard to be able to pick them up again lol,

It just seems like another bs double standard by the fandom.

[humblydigitallocket]

I think the people who say that any overlords who might become better people in future should give up their power are actually not being logical.

On the 1 hand it would make a good grand gesture for vox or valentino or alastor or velvet to willingly give up power and status if they did improve as people over time

But on the other hand hell is the type of place where there will always be sinner residents since not everyone necessarily wants to go to heaven

And there will always be power hungry and sadistic sinners who would gladly grab the power available and become the next valentino or vox so unless hell gets rid of the overlord system entirely in future

Then something that could actually go towards meaningfully changing hell for the better is actually better overlords

Who are actually fair to their workers in terms of contracts and freedom and in terms of just basic treatment,

But leaving a certain slot as an overlord and freeing up a spot and a bunch of souls could very likely just lead to the next terrible person gladly filling that hole

But if the fan theory about vox or even if other overlord characters like valentino or velvet became better people

Then having overlords in hell who actually give a shit and want to do better could actually go towards things being better for the average sinners in hell who still want or have to live there,

However I think the irony is that I only see this logic wrongly applied to sera in heaven

Where people claim she not only should stay in charge but needs to to prevent someone else from potentially taking over who is worse

But whenever it comes to talk of overlord characters possible redemptions people always seem to say it should involve giving up their power as if its a necessity,

But this just isn't logical heaven has not been portrayed as a place filled corrupt or bad higher ups

As the only other important characters we have seen have been portrayed as good such as emily and the speaker

And the fact sera had to hide the exterminations from the others also speaks to this however the way hell's general citizens and other overlords have been portrayed does support the logic

That a redeemed overlord is indeed better left in power than leaving the power up for grabs for someone possibly worse

But this logic does not make sense for heaven or sera since the positive changes she would enact would all be enacted anyway by whoever took over

So the only person her remaining in charge is benefiting is herself since it allows her to continue living in privilege without actually working for it

When she could actually be using her power to help others more directly and actually prove she's changed

Rather than simply letting her sister and others to do the work for her and then taking credit for it at the end

( Also anyone who claims being an overlord is inherently more unethical than heaven leadership should remember that with overlords you get a choice as to what you are and who you work for

Whereas in heaven you seem to just be born as certain things and thrown into certain roles in the hierarchy

So its more of a pick your favourite corrupt unfair system type of deal rather than 1 actually being logically better than the other )

So in short the fandom needs to switch these ideas around when it comes to redemption for certain characters

As sera staying in power in heaven makes no logical sense given she's the only higher up in that hierarchy that proved she couldn't be trusted with the power

And her remaining in such a position should understandably make hell uneasy as to why this won't just happen again at some point and why people in heaven live by different rules to them?

But for hell overlords this logic makes perfect sense given how hell has been portrayed where plenty of terrible overlords exist and could exist in the future if given the chance

So an overlord character who has genuinely changed would make more sense to stay in that position of power and actually use it to improve the lives of some of the people in hell

Even if the idea of someone like vox or velvette or alastor or valentino staying in their positions of power

Is harder for the fandom to stomach than sera simply because she's more likable but logically this makes more sense given what we know about the rest of heaven and hell.

[humblydigitallocket]

The thing that actually bothers me about kate's ending.

Sorry for the clickbait title but I was trying to avoid having something that's potentially a spoiler in it lmao,

So kate's ending sort of bugged me and its not the same thing I've seen a lot of people complain about that she wasn't punished and got off too lightly for her actions

No the thing that actually bugs me is that she isn't really working to make up for her past anymore,

If anything it feels like her character sort of regressed a little but by going back to the world of art and being 1 of those rich snobs

Sure its kind of nice for her to give Marianne her shot in that world but I wouldn't exactly call that doing good,

That's the thing that actually bothers me about her redemption that the show treats it as though her actions in season 5 were enough

As opposed to portraying redemption as an ongoing thing of working to atone for your past and continuing to be a positive in the world

But her just handing the company to her brother and essentially going back to who she was at the start of season 4 didn't feel like a good end to her redemption story for me,

Also it is sort of sending mixed messages the show rightly calling out joe for his murders most of which were vigilante justice type things and calling him out for his excuses

But at the same time portraying kate's attempted vigilante justice murder of him and then her getting shot by him arguably in entirely justified self defence

As some sort of heroic sacrifice that redeemed her even though it is just technically the same thing joe has mostly done over the course of the show

Murdering bad people and using the excuse of their own faults and the idea he was protecting others to take out people who he didn't like or just for his own satisfaction

Which is what kept so many people rooting for him and defending him over the show,

So it feels like the show is sort of taking 1 step forward by calling joe out on his bullshit but then taking a step back by having kate do the same thing and it be made out to be heroic and justified,

But I guess getting back on track my main point is I don't have an issue with a redeemed character who has done bad things not being overly punished

But I do have issue with the idea that the character gets to wipe the slate clean

And just live a normal life rather than continuing to work to actually do some good to make up for the past like kate seemed to be doing at the start of the season.

[humblydigitallocket]

I don't understand why these 2 are so liked to be honest?

While they are not the only 2 guilty of leaving the family as clay and floyd also did that but they do show a lack of shame or care throughout the movie for it except for 1 scene in john's case

And later verbally mock and degrade branch over something which has been shown as a serous trauma for him entirely unprovoked

As branch did not say anything during that scene to warrant the mocking reaction he got from john or the cruel comment he got from bruce shaming him for having normal emotions,

And in the end the movie just ignores their behaviours and actions because they get kidnapped and floyd almost dies

But this is not a healthy way to portray conflict resolution as people only being nice to you when they need something or when everything is going their way

But quickly turning cruel and dismissive when someone actually tries to have a real talk with them about something serous they have done or a way they behaved

Is actually quite a realistic sign of abusive people in real life even the brothers way of acknowledging that they haven't seen each other in ages

But just brushing past it and never really admitting fault and instead trying to distract people by showering them with sudden affection to avoid having to actually examine their behaviour or really admit to their actions Is also sadly a very real thing,

To be honest if this movie was instead trying to teach children about abusive relationships then I'd say it does a good job

And really the only way you would need to change the current movie is the ending by having branch actually see them for their behaviour and call them out on it

And either have serous acknowledgment by the brothers and change but making it clear this isn't an erasure of the past

And branch will not just forget about what they did so the next time they behave this way he won't just let them off the hook for it again

Or have branch realise that they are not healthy for him and cut them off as no matter how much he might want a family sometimes your blood family are simply not good for you,

But it feels like the movie thinks that john and bruce and even just brozone as a whole being funny and likable should be enough to see them as good people and for the ending to be happy

But examining their behaviours in the movie as a whole really just leaves me feeling otherwise and I think john and bruce would actually work better as antagonists

Rather than good guy characters in the movie given they are both rather selfish and cruel jerks but john is more open and blatant while bruce is more covert and hidden

( again I would praise the movie for teaching children about hidden toxicity in people if the movie didn't seem to not realise that it had portrayed this rather accurately ).

[humblydigitallocket]

How it feels with this fandom when it comes to sera's redemption to be honest.

Compare this to people who want redemption stories for characters like vox or lute or adam if he became a sinner where people like the ideas because it would involve a lot of character growth and change

And hard work and interesting struggles but in sera's case it feels like people just want the character to be the exact same person she was at the start of the show by the end of it but they want her to be rewarded for it,

There is a lot of ways vivziepop can still have sera change and work and struggle and have an actual interesting redemption story in the future

But it very much seems like her fans do not want any of that to happen to be honest and would rather she stay the same in every single way imaginable.