Person who likes stuff

[humblydigitallocket]

The hellaverse fandom overall is strange in which characters it decides to make controversial and hotly debated compared to others lmao.

Even if stella had been the perfect wife and person to stolas over the years the fact that cheating is more controversial and makes a character more divided over than a character who did a genocide is bizaar

( note to self if I ever become a criminal of any sort in the future make sure to transition to being a woman first ).

[humblydigitallocket]

I cannot believe this is an actual take someone had but it is I saw it on x lmao.

[humblydigitallocket]

Hot take I feel like fallen sera as a concept should happen as sera remaining in heaven really doesn't sit right with me.

Redemption is supposed to be about changing your old ways and doing meaningful things to atone but nothing ever said its meant to be a get out of jail free card

And her continuing to be in heaven doing the exact same thing she's always done with no change doesn't really sit right with me as redemption its basically just getting away with it because she happens to be a likable person,

And the continued presence of people like her in heaven kind of ruins heaven as a concept since it really isn't this paradise meant that upholds kindness and serves as a place for good people if someone can be born there and thus get special privilege in spite of their actions

So that changes it into basically just being an upperclass neighbourhood to be honest and hell being the lower class 1 if your actual actions and the way you love don't matter when it comes to who gets to be there in certain cases,

Before anyone says "" well what about lute "" that's different she's an ongoing villain as confirmed by vivziepop in an interview that's going to become worse in future and get some sort of comeuppance either dying or getting cast out for her actions in future

But that's different from sera whose current position in the show most people want to remain stagnant rather than change or grow in any sort of way,

And sera willingly falling to actually go down and do work to atone in hell would be an actual action that would show meaningful change in character by her not just staying in the same spot she's comfortable in continuing to leave the hard work to emily and others

But instead actually trying to help the people she wronged Wether its with redemption or just helping certain people in hell be less miserable

And learning to understand and empathise with them better I know people bring up the question of who would run heaven instead and frankly I don't think that's relevant the answer is it can literally be anyone be it a character we know or 1 that we don't

But using this sort of hyper logic to try and write the show out of having characters do meaningful things or change just seems weird as you could literally do that with anyone

You could also say its not logical for charlie to even be as kind and empathetic as she is given the place she grew up in and basically write the show's entire premise out of existence with this logic lmao,

But sera's character staying in heaven and not actually doing anything herself to show meaningful change or atonement would be as terrible as if the show had vox redeem himself by simply not hurting people anymore but nothing else changing about his tech ceo overlord role in hell

Or alastor or valentino or velvet etc etc etc but it feels as though a lot of fans are rather averse to the idea of sera's character changing in any way but you shouldn't be afraid of that or want the character remain stagnant

Especially in a show built around redemption which by nature has to involve people changing and not just staying the same.

[humblydigitallocket]

Why these 2 are the most babied hazbin characters.

In terms of how they are treated by the show sera gets favouritism in the story compared to other antagonists by being portrayed in more overtly in your face

to the point season 2 was filled with nothing but these scenes and no real room for letting the audiences form their own views on her in any sort of complicated way

( I've seen people claim that the show isn't doing this and its simply showing her feelings and perspective but that's just bad media literacy to be honest as if you view season 2 and somehow see it as portraying her in a neutral light then I don't know what to say tbh )

Especially with the show having her get coddled by 2 fan favourite characters emily and pentious and the season never really has anyone judge her in any way or even be against her for her actions while still trying to make peace

except literally the main villain who is portrayed as evil and disingenuously using the exterminations for his own selfish goals,

And by the end of the season she gets gifted everything she wanted without really having to do anything significant and seemingly gets given credit for simply not killing people and not stopping her sister and charlie from saving hell and heaven

And by the end of the season she is seemingly forgiven by literally everyone including her sister with no real build up or on screen conflict outside of 1 season 1 scene and now she's seen as 1 of the good guys by both characters and fandom

which I very much doubt the fandom would feel the same way about if this was any other antagonist

( yes I know people will claim this is just the start of the arc but since the fandom is judging her based on what little we have so far I can also judge the character and the fandom for what little we have so far its a 2 way street ),

And even prior to season 1 the fandom had a babying issue where people making posts or comments judging or expressing dislike for any major antagonist was seen as fine ( especially valentino )

But on the occasions it happened for sera people would complain about constant hatred for the character and use it as justification for being jerks to people over them expressing such opinions so it was apparently decided by the wider fandom that this 1 antagonist was above criticism compared to the others

Or even just alternative takes where lots of people were very judgmental and bitter towards the theories of sera not being redeemed even though the character was intentionally written to sit somewhere in the middle of good and evil

and have an unclear future back in season 1 but fans would always complain about any alternative takes,

And even after season 2 came out there was a number of bitter posts presumably from sera stans being dicks towards the people who had alternative theories on sera's future that didn't involve her being redeemed

because I guess it was seen as wrong somehow by these people for a morally messy character to have different takes and theories about them rather than 1 simple take that the entire hivemind shares? 🤨🤨🤨🤨🤨

Again do you honestly think this behaviour would be seen as acceptable if we applied it to other antagonists?

If the fan theory about vox being redeemed in future comes true are people who wanted it to happen going to be dicks to people who either didn't want it to happen or simply didn't think it would happen

Simply because they had different ideas about this character? and more to the point would you honestly be okay with that sort of behaviour from the fandom simply in regards to people having different opinions?

Point is sera has been given a lot of unearned credit compared to other characters and frankly exceptional behaviour allowed in the name of defending her or simply treating fandom discourse around her differently to that of other characters

So to claim she isn't babied just seems disingenuous to me or that you haven't been around the fandom that long,

Now onto lucifer he often gets excused by having blame passed onto other people from claiming lilith was a cruel wife who got inbetween him and charlie simply based on 1 flashback that can easily be interpreted a few others ways

Or by claiming charlie is a bad daughter for a multitude of reasons often used to excuse his lack of effort in present day,

Or blaming everything on heaven for his past misdeeds which even tho heaven is babied a bit too much by the fandom the show portraying lucifer as some innocent goofy inventor who was harshly judged by heaven being to rigid

When he did in fact do something reckless that had massive consequences so the show itself seems rather 1 sided with its portrayal of his flaws in that regard,

As for the exterminations its said from the start that he agreed to them and he clearly does not give a flying fuck about them and only got involved to help charlie meanwhile the show never really holds him to task for this or even portrays it as much of a flaw on his part since its only mentioned in passing by charlie

And she herself doesn't even seem to act like its a big deal I guess because he's her dad and she has bias for his sins compared to others ( she has that flaw in common with emily I guess ),

And of course the fandom itself often goes out of its way to explain away and excuse him of any wrongdoing mostly making stuff up to be honest that wasn't actually stated in the show such as lucifer having his family threatened by heaven if he didn't agree to it or him being desperate to save the hellborns from heaven at least

When he evidently doesn't give a crap about them given the fact he let the society fall to crap by having an unfair classist system and even though he claims to hate the sinners and the way that they are

He didn't attempt to shape the hellborn society to be any better another thing which the show does not pay any lip service to at all,

So all in all these 2 are far more babied than any other characters in the show both by the writing and by the fandom people can moan all day about alastor being babied which he is by some fans

But the fact that so many more people call this out on literally a daily basis than they do the flaws of luci or sera both in fandom and in show proves that his babying isn't as widespread a problem as the fandom makes out to be honest.

[humblydigitallocket]

How would you rank all of the important villains/antagonists in the movies in terms of how bad you think they are?

This should be an interesting conversation anyhow to explain my own reasoning I'm not just judging by actions but also by motives and or other human qualities

so in the top I have chef who obviously has terrible actions and also an entirely selfish motive with no real human qualities,

With king gristle senior its a little unclear given how little screen time he has so it is possible that similar to his son he only agreed to trollstice out of genuine care for his people

But unlike his son he did actually cause a lot of people's deaths so that's an extreme enough action in my mind to still place him at the top even if he had somewhat human motives,

With barb while she may have human qualities her actions and her motives were quite terrible since she destroyed cities and imprisoned countless people and if she had her way she would have wiped out countless cultures and essentially turned her people into mind slaves if she wasn't stopped in the end

So despite her human qualities she goes at the top in my mind,

And velvet I was a little conflicted about because compared to the others her actions are very small scale but still pretty bad and her motives of course are selfish so I'd just about put her at the top,

For veneer and crimp well venveer does have the same actions as his sister but I feel his motive was more about not wanting to stand up to her more than anything and he has slightly more human qualities so while he still has bad actions he does rank a little below her in my mind

And crimp well I feel her part in things gets a little downplayed by the movie and by some fans where some claim that her part is simply keeping quiet and being a witness and some even try to give her a more understandable motive like her being poor and desperate to keep her job

But I feel this is downplaying the fact that she did work for them for presumably floyd's entire kidnapping ordeal and she was aware that they were torturing him so that isn't just turning a blind eye actively working for kidnappers is participating in my eyes

And the movie gives her no real motive beyond not wanting to lose her job or stand up to velvet so she isn't really any better than veneer,

And lastly gristle junior and creek to be clear the bottom row does not mean entirely innocent but in terms of actions technically the genocide was stopped before anyone actually got hurt unlike with the actions of the other characters

( if anyone had actually died then I would judge them less favourably )

And they had the most understandable human motives given king gristle junior genuinely wanted to help his people who were suffering not to mention ease his own and creek was just afraid of being eaten alive who wouldn't be? lmao,

So that's my personal ranking.

[humblydigitallocket]

Much as I would like to believe in this fandom the facts really do speak for themselves given how I've seen certain characters be received by the majority.

Emily sera and the speaker in case it wasn't obvious, I don't even dislike emily or the speaker but the speed in which they became favourites and the pedestal the fairly simplistic writing of them gets put on really speaks for itself tbh.

[humblydigitallocket]

A double standard I really can't stand in the fandom to be honest.

I can't help but laugh at certain posts in the fandom trying to claim sera has a misogyny bias against her compared to male characters from other shows when she has such a large fandom and very passionate defenders

And also a large amount of her fans have passionate hatreds of other characters for frankly hypocritical reasons,

This above is actual misogyny I'm sorry but that really is the only explanation it would be fine if you simply liked 1 character but did not like the other

But throwing these actual harsh criticisms against 1 character while blatantly ignoring them for the other is just a sign of sexist double standards that deserves calling out,

As so many people claim stolas is some sort of babied character by vivziepop and never faces consequences for his actions or calling out and even complain about him being a rich nepotism baby with no hardships

Despite this all being bs despite his wealth he did have struggles in life from the very start and in terms of his actions he does face shit as a result of them from stella's antics like having him tortured almost to death by striker to his and blitzo's harsh breakup

To him literally having to throw his own head on the chopping block thinking he would die and then losing his home and his powers and being hated by the public and losing his own daughter and he gets called out by stella blitz and even via so what the fuck are you talking about?

Meanwhile as far as we know sera was born into ultimate privilege not having to earn her way into heaven or earn her powers and status and has lived a very cushy life given the way heaven has been portrayed so far

And then did an action that has caused countless harm over 7 years ( despite her complicated motives I'm not claiming she's pure evil )

And got called out on it 1 time by her sister and then in the end gets given everything she wants without having to really do anything for it or take any kind of meaningful accountability and action to make up for it and gets given instant forgiveness by everyone in the story

And yet people claim she is not babied by the creator because? she cried a couple of times? something which stolas haters loath him for doing and moan everytime he does,

Yeah newsflash just because you like a female character does not mean you are not behaving misogynistically this is ironically something you can learn from adam's character

( given he hangs out with women and even leads an army of them but that does not negate him being a sexist person )

So Its very clear that fans who judge stolas 1 way but judge sera another do not view men and women by the same standards when it comes to writing and this deserves calling out quite frankly.

[popart-vvv]

How Audiences "Like" Loathsome Antagonists--Hellaverse Edition

I've said it before and I'll say it again.

I legitimately don't understand a lot of fandom trends! If there's something I'm missing, just kindly and patiently explain it to me in the notes.

Anyway...

Something I've been thinking about lately is the reasoning behind why audiences like or dislike certain characters from certain media. Everyone has their preferences--perhaps specific traits click with them, maybe they have an interesting story, or perhaps they'd want to befriend them in real life. And these characters tend to be flawed--sometimes it's apparent at first glance, sometimes not. In any case, one man's trash is another man's treasure, and that goes for a lot of fictional characters.

And then there are characters made to draw audience ire.

These types of characters, at their core, are irredeemable, hateful, and all-around unlikable. They may show off a lighter quirk or a somewhat sympathetic side, but those moments are completely ruined when the characters cross the line--perhaps not once, maybe not even twice.

I've noticed that it's a common occurrence for Vivziepop's Hazbin/Helluva franchise when it comes to the antagonists.

On the Hazbin side...

Adam

As if him being bigoted to Sinners and hugely hypocritical wasn't enough, he also acts like an obnoxious, boorish frat boy.

Lute

Even more bigoted than her boss, which is saying something, and horrifyingly bloodthirsty and vindictive, especially towards Vaggie--just because she justifiably defied the Exorcists.

Valentino

Even for the trio he's a part of, this guy proves to be a special kind of evil with the shit he puts his employees through. Poor Angel Dust...

Over at Helluva...

Stella

Infuriatingly childish, petty, and spoiled, and even if her husband and daughter aren't saints themselves, she's (in)directly responsible for the pain and conflict her family suffers from.

Andrealphus

A slimy schemer who piles on to Stolas' suffering with his plans to take away everything dear to him--his plants, his stars, his daughter...

Seriously, this is one fucked up family. Poor Stolas and Octavia!

Striker

Beneath the thin veneer of "coolness" is a hypocritical bigot who twists the truth for his own selfish desires.

Crimson

Ultimately, one of the shittiest dads in the Hellaverse, if not the shittiest. Poor Moxxie...

Mammon

Much like Valentino, you do not want to work under this guy. Poor Fizzarolli...

Yeah, let's not mince words or sugarcoat them. All eight of these characters are meant to be repulsive as fuck.

And enhancing their unlikability is the fact that, even if exaggerated in-show, people like them exist in real life.

Adam and Lute represent the worst kind of intolerant religious folks.

Stella, Andrealphus, and Crimson symbolize different types of family trauma.

Valentino and Mammon represent the terrible bosses that are all-too-common in this day and age.

Striker represents the most hypocritical performative "activists" who ultimately care only about themselves.

In an interesting contrast, however, I have seen fans that have sincerely taken some sort of liking to a few of these characters. For me, it's not too big of an issue--after all, you can legitimately like a character and not defend or support their actions. And personally, I'm kind of interested in Stella, Andrealphus, and Lute, if only for the fact that quite a few fans make theories that add an element of tragedy to them.

However, I am legitimately perplexed by people having an unironic liking for characters like Striker, and especially Crimson of all people.

Like, I'm sorry, I legitimately cannot stand those three characters. I can't fathom seeing anything remotely likable or sympathetic about them at all. Crimson for obvious reasons, Striker because his hypocrisy and bigotry genuinely got under my skin (matter of fact, I legit think that the latter trait will get worse if he returns).

Confession Time.

Around the time I started to learn about the concept of fandoms, I was really into anime. And that part of it was learning about how audiences took to certain aspects of certain anime--reactions to characters, plot beats, etc.

And that included learning about notorious characters that everyone hated--rightfully so. Including

Shou Tucker (Fullmetal Alchemist)

Used his entire family as part of some twisted experiments just to keep his job as State Alchemist.

Malty S. Malromarc/Myne (Rising of the Shield Hero)

To put it in perspective just how horrible she was, not even her own ENG VA liked her!

So yeah, learning about the "made to be totally despised" character archetype early on in my fandom days may have shaped how I approached the aforementioned "loathsome antagonists" from Hazbin/Helluva.

With that said, if you're an unironic fan of any of these above-mentioned characters from Hazbin/Helluva, why so? What makes them appealing to you, even in spite of how horrible they are?

(please don't give any shallow reasons or whitewash these characters istg)

[humblydigitallocket]

"" However, I am legitimately perplexed by people having an unironic liking for characters like Striker, and especially Crimson of all people. ""

How I feel about sera in hazbin to be honest as everything about her just screams spoilt entitled nepotism baby who has had the easiest life on the planet yet is responsible for the most death of any antagonist in the show so far

And the show itself lets her off way too easily in this regard by constantly portraying her in a light that is meant to force sympathy and even has other fan favourite characters like emily and sir pentious basically baby her in order to drive the point home that the audience should like her and that she can't be judged for anything she has done,

And also the way a lot of the fandom basically want her redemption to basically just be saying sorry and that's it with no real work or effort to atone compared to literally every other character in the show who has sinned regardless of how big and small,

Given how sera represents upperclass leaders who were born into privilege and go onto cause harm to countless lower class people and then get given special favour by the systems because of said privilege they were born with and didn't earn

I genuinely don't understand why people unironically like this antagonist and don't hate and what she represents?

[humblydigitallocket]

I feel like the fact that so many people insist myung gi is morally grey and misunderstood just speaks to an issue in some fandoms where people can't actually handle complex villains.

It seems like if a villain isn't a moustache twirling entirely pure evil Douchbag like nam gyu then people just can't accept them as still being a villain these days as people think a character having sympathetic and likable aspects means that automatically makes them too complex to be a villain,

But that really is not how it works and it seems like a case where people judge a character too much by personality rather than actions and motives

As looking at his actions there is nothing grey about brutally murdering multiple people for money during hide and seek when 1 would have been enough to save your life

Or killing player 100 just out spite rather than because you needed his sacrifice to allow you and your baby to survive the final round but assumed you'd be able to kill the already injured lunchbox to win the last 1 thus having 1 less person to split the money with

Or trying to kill your own baby so there was no chance of possibly losing the last round to gi hun,

Certain actions of his are complicated and morally grey especially back in season 2 but not all of them were so the fact that he has some human qualities and yes morally grey actions does not make him not a villain when you look at him overall,

By this logic of simply having human qualities that don't effect your outward actions all that much making you a grey character then shouldn't that also apply to other villains? what about thanos?

Does the fact that he was at 1 point suicidal in his backstory or the fact he actually felt bad about leaving gyung su behind once he came to his senses mean he's grey and "" misunderstood "" rather than a villain?

Or even the frontman by this same logic his sympathetic human qualities must mean he's grey and not actually a villain right regardless of his actions?

Yeah I'm sure you get the point I feel as tho an actual morally grey character would be min su given he sort of had a hand in 3 deaths but each situation was actually complicated and his sympathetic human qualities actually effected all of his actions

( he hid when semi died due to very human fear and his extreme guilt over it caused him to lure nam gyu onto the bridge to his death and nam gyu himself was a sadistic killer

and during hide and seek he killed the shaman because he would have died himself otherwise and even then struggled to do it without getting high first to alleviate his guilt )

Unlike myung gi where people focus on his human qualities in spite of them not having anything to do with some of his actions which I feel is an important difference between a morally grey character and an outright villain.

[labyrinthofsphinx]

When in ROME!

Cheers!

[humblydigitallocket]

To be honest I'd let vincent take me out even if I already knew that he was a serial killer lmao.

[humblydigitallocket]

I find it disappointing that sera didn't do more during the finale and it makes me a little worried about her future tbh.

As it feels like it would have been a great chance for her to do so but for some reason vivziepop went out of her way to make her stay behind and not take part in anything despite her and pentious's song literally stating about being redeemed through meaningful action and not just feeling bad,

During the climax she tried to have emily removed from hell and didn't actually try to help save it like emily did or help the sinners when really her power could have actually been pretty helpful in stopping the bomb and helping the people who were in danger because of vox's laser,

Having her stand around watching pentious do something just feels like rather a lame way to conclude this season imo

As sure the arc isn't over yet but this type of stuff just makes me worried rather than hopeful for her arcs future given she had chances to do meaningful actions

But instead vivziepop wrote it in such a way where sera didn't have to actually work herself

And instead just left the hard work to other people despite 1 of her main sins in regards to the exterminations being that she just left it to other people allowing adam to run rampant and didn't oversea it because she didn't want to have to see the nitty gritty work of the job

( I'm not saying I don't understand not wanting to see a genocide with your own 2 eyes obviously ),

I just hope this isn't a sign of what's to come in the future and more so I hope that the fandom won't act like it is as her simply not stopping charlie and emily from doing good work is not her doing a redeeming action

Its like saying that if angel opened up a rehab clinic in hell for fellow addicts then that would count as the single redeeming action valentino would need to be redeemed because he didn't stop him from doing it,

But I get the feeling a lot of fans would honestly be fine with it if sera's future either involved her doing nothing but cheering on charlie and emily from a distance

Or if she literally vanished from the show after this season then most would see it as a fine redemption

But I would hope viv's writing will either be better than that or at least the fandom will hold it to a better standard than that depending on how things go.

[humblydigitallocket]

I find it a little bit weird how creek seems to be the most hated antagonist in the franchise when besides gristle he's the only 1 who actually had a good and understandable reason for doing what he did,

Think about it chef did what she did for power and status

Barb did what she did because she wanted all the tribes united and thought she knew best above countless other people regardless of how many she would have to hurt and enslave

Velvette did what she did for fame and money

Veneer also did what she did for fame and money but also to spare himself having to confront an awkward family issue with his sister

And crimp just didn't want to have to find a new job,

So outside of gristle who did what he did to try and stop his people from being miserable after they had already spent many years being so creek is really the only antagonist who had an actually valid reason for doing what he did

And the others don't and the reason why I'd say this is that the difference between villains reasons being valid and warranting them being given some understanding

And them just being a bad excuse by the character meant to justify terrible actions is ultimately Wether or not they actually meaningfully affected the villain doing what they did or not,

So for instance gristle is a good example of a valid reason imo because the depression his people was under was a very real thing that was preventing them from living their lives fully

So him ordering the pop tribe to be wiped out isn't justified but it is more understandable and warrants some sympathy given its the only reason he did what he did and it was a very real tangible thing

Same with creek and the very real threat he had hanging over his life for most of the movie and the fear he felt when he was nearly eaten and was held hostage for over 2 days,

But with someone like barb her reasons are not valid because the things the movie tries to use to make her sympathetic don't actually have anything tangible to do with her terrible actions

Such as her struggle to make friends or her father's condition which are sad in a vacuum but are not things that make her trying to enslave and brainwash her species more understandable

Same with venner and crimp I'd argue as veneer having a bad relationship with his sister is sad but the logical conclusion is not to take a part in a kidnapping when he didn't need to same with crimp and her not wanting to lose her job,

Its the difference between lets say a character murdering her husband in his sleep something which is technically wrong yes but her reason for doing it

Was because she was abused for years and genuinely feared for her life and what would happen if she tried to leave him given she had lived in fear and under his thumb for many years

So that's a reason that ties directly into why the person did the crime and makes it warrant understanding and consideration of her circumstances,

But on the other end of the spectrum we had a character who horribly abuses their innocent partner for years and uses the reason that they were bullied in school when they were younger

That's a more bad reason as it isn't something tangible that ties into their current crime its just using something entirely unrelated as an excuse for said crime,

So do you see what I'm saying? I'd argue its weird to judge creek more than these other characters or gristle if anyone does given they actually had valid tangible reasons that led them to do the bad act that they did unlike most of the other antagonists in the franchise.

[humblydigitallocket]

Cosmic double standard between pentious and sera that's really been bugging me the more I think about it.

So the main point I was thinking is how come his inaction over a situation in which 50/50 on Wether he would have actually been able to make a difference or not due to the circumstances

( him being 1 person whose word was against another person who was according to him a wealthy gentleman ),

But sera's inaction in the finale during a situation in which she for sure would have made a difference given her power is framed as a good thing by the story and is clearly seen as such by the universe given that she isn't made fallen or anything,

so it seems like a pretty big double standard where a normal person's inaction is a terrible thing that they deserve to be labled as a coward over and punished for but the inaction of a powerful leader is meant to be seen as heroic

And the start of a redemption for them which is funny considering that sera is actually the only major character who didn't help save the day in the finale

I mean emily helped and alastor helped and charlie helped and even valentino and velvette helped lmao

But sera is literally the only 1 who didn't help which makes it ironic how much credit she's being given already by the fandom with many claiming she's already redeemed and hailing it as the best arc in the show,

Even tho nothing meaningful actually happened for her character yet sure she feels guilty but that was always the case for her character so that's nothing new and given that she didn't actually have any meaningful action this season

I feel it kind of perfectly highlights an issue with this fandom tbh and that is it largely judges people's morality by likability rather than meaningful positive action

So sera being the only 1 to not do anything this season is irrelevant to people because she made herself even more likable than she was in season 1 meanwhile other characters actually helping save the day like alastor or val or velvette

Are still viewed with a tainted brush which I'm not claiming those characters were redeemed just to be clear lol but it is ironic that the characters the fandom and the story paints as worse actually have the more meaningful redeeming actions

But the character who the fandom and the story paints in the more positive light has no real redeeming actions to speak of but simply has likable surface level qualities,

And the divine judgment as well as even a lot of fans judgments of pentious being wrong for his inaction in a situation but sera's inaction in the finale being a redeeming thing for her just seems like a major upperclass double standard standard tbh

Like the universe and the fandom expects more from lowly commoner humans and expects less from upperclass born country leaders,

I kind of hope this is addressed tbh as its actually really shitty of the hazbin judgment system and unless sera really knuckles down and works hard in future rather than standing back and leaving things to charlie and emily again

Then its gonna appear even worse of the systems of heaven tbh in how they judge their own vs others.

[humblydigitallocket]

To be honest I feel like sera and lute's positions in season 2 should have been reversed to where everyone was mostly against sera and on lute's side.

As things felt too easy for sera this season in my opinion given everyone except for the main villain of the season and another minor 1 were on her side and patting her on the back and egging her on

Before anyone says anything no the "" just wait for the future seasons "" excuse isn't valid here as I'm criticising something that has already been started and finished in the show and that is the start of sera's redemption arc,

And I feel like something you should never do in writing is make the villain in the situation feel like the underdog and make the person we're meant to root for seem like they literally hold all the power and already have the favour of everyone around them

But that's kind of what they did with lute and sera this season where lute is meant to be the villain we root against in heaven yet she's in no real position of power and is singled out as alone with no one at all backing her up

But with sera sure she struggles to make a choice but the whole season she has pretty much everyone in heaven behind her and has 2 songs of people literally comforting her and patting her on the back

And having no real pushback to the lies she told or the mass killing she ordered or the idea of letting sinners into their Holmes outside of lute,

I know vivziepops intention is to make lute feel more and more like an outsider driving her crazy but imo that should have started after this season as it would have been better if sera had actually struggled

Against the rest of heaven outside of emily and pentious pressuring her into giving the order to attack hell out of fear and maybe also facing a lot of backlash over her lies of the extermination and questioning of her

Meanwhile lute could have paralleled vox in that she was leading this wave of people in heaven playing in to their fear and having the backing of most of heaven

so when sera is still able to choose to do the right thing it doesn't feel like it was easy because she's literally had the whole deck the entire season with everyone's support,

Like I said I just feel like its backwards to make the character we're meant to root for the top dog the entire season ( writing wise )

While the evil 1 is the underdog as it just made me not root for sera at all given she just seemed like a mary sue having everything given to her very easily with the most surface level appearance of a struggle.

[humblydigitallocket]

To be honest I can't really blame lute much for not being able to accept the changes that came about in season 2 straight away.

I'm not saying that makes her correct but looking at things from her point of view its understandable why it would be way harder for her to accept these changes compared to most others in heaven

Given she was also having to contend with grief over the person she cared about the most in life which certainly makes the prospect of peace with hell harder to accept than it would be for someone like emily for example,

Also we still need to know exactly how long ago lute and the others were created by heaven but regardless of when given that they were acting with adam as their leader

It would stand to reason that he was filling their heads with his views on hell and sinners and even hellborn long before the exterminations

given his personal feelings towards them and then after years of killing them because you were told they were a threat to heaven

And were inhuman scum your suddenly told to think the exact opposite after someone you loved just died in a fight with them ( his own fault but still grief isn't logical ),

So its not exactly hard to see why it was much harder for lute to change her view of things straight away than it was for people like sera and emily

again this doesn't make her correct but I think her reasons are a bit deeper than just not being able to accept change because she's murder hungry or bigoted like some say.

( also no vaggie being a rare exception in the exorcists doesn't negate any of this lmao ).