if you see me liking contradicting headcanons for the same character just know it's because I do not give a fuck and I have an active imagination #hewouldsaythat
AU where nothing bad ever happens in valinor and no one dies but now there is too many curufinwe around no one knows who youu are refering to when you are talking about a curvo
What happens at the Celebration of Friendship and Cultural Harmony stays at the Celebration of Friendship and Cultural Harmony.... but does that include the Incident?
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Very small , very baby aged maglor , legit toddler, who after his first time seeing his dad at court ( and clash with nolo ) is given a hasty answer on why his atar don't like his brother , so badly expressed that he misunderstand it as as feanor not liking second sons .... but he IS a second son ?!?!?! HIS DAD DONT LIKE HIM !?!?!?
And feanor found him later crying and he is like .... no I don't don't like second sons , I just don't like my younger sibling , I love you my small baby
And now maglor think his older brother ( maedhros maedhros he absolutely love) won't like him when he grow up .
So feanor is like NO ! You both are real siblings unlike him and indis's kids and they have to always love each other , and that feanor can't trust fingolfin to be loyal to him , but maglor have to be to maedhros and vice versa
Maglor internalised this conversation very hard ( the him and maedhros siblings part)
adverb, Latin: in the place of a father
How Ereinion Gil-Galad becomes the son of none of the usual suspects, but of still far too many fathers for any reasonable member of the Eldar to possess in one lifetime. Setting out to prove the plural in Scion of Kings.
The Incident continues to spark soul searching and multiple accusations amongst the Finwë grandchildren in Beleriand.
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I just got back on my silmarillion bullshit and the victim of this round's hyper fixation is Dior
So when I found your story Birds Of Prey I was enchanted. Trust, I'm a seated for whatever they will have going on.
You noted in chapter 2 that if we wished to know about your quote “lengthy ramblings” on Dior’s peredhelness we must come here to ask. So here I am. Please, share the ramblings, I wish to know.
My working understanding was that Dior would likely have been a Man but also was he? Would he have wanted to be? If he was a Man how was he even allowed to be a King of the Eldar. Gosh there is so much to unpack regarding my new blorbo Dior Eluchil, First Peredhel and Thingol’s Heir, Last King of Doriath.
Thank you for your time. ☺️
Hello :D Thank you so much for asking!!! This might be slightly long so bear with me while I get through my thoughts on Peredhel-ism as a whole and how it relates to Dior as a person and a ruler, subdivided into the 3.5 main points:
(Legal disclaimer: this is just one interpretation of the material. YMMV)
A) The Nature of the Choice
All in all, we know of 5 characters who have explicitly made a Choice after Namo makes it an official thing: Elwing, Earendil, Elrond (for the Elves) and Elros, Arwen (for the Men). We can make a handful of inferences from this sample group, but the most important in Dior's case is that once someone chooses mortality, the downstream bloodline is cut off from the same choice.
This is evidenced by the fact that none of Elros's descendants are recorded as choosing to be an Elf — otherwise Ar-Pharazon could have just chosen immortality without having to go to war about it. (I'm not getting into blood quantums here, that's a whole other beast I'm not equipped to talk about.) They get some hereditary traits like beardlessness and longer-but-still-mortal lifespans as a consolation prize.
Elrond chose Elfhood, and his three children also get that same privilege of choice. Elladan and Elrohir aren't mentioned making one, and presumably sail, but this implies that an Elf can effectively stall in committing to mortality indefinitely. Arwen chooses mortality after ~1500 years, and has Eldarion after (who, again, lives a mortal life without a hint of having his own Choice). This makes two for two on circumstantial evidence that descendants of a mortal Peredhel are ineligible to Choose themselves. Since Arwen is meant to be a contemporary parallel of Luthien, her situation is even more relevant, which I discuss in B.
A.5) The Unpublished Text
"Now all those who have the blood of mortal Men, in whatever part, great or small, are mortal, unless other doom be granted to them; but in this matter the power of doom is given to me."
[Manwe to Earendil], The Lost Road and Other Writings Part Two: Valinor and Middle-earth before The Lord of the Rings, Quenta Silmarillion
I don't really like this take because it takes place after Dior's death (and is in an earlier version of the Quenta Silmarillion that didn't make it into the published Silm), and it runs a bit contradictory to Elrond and his children's existence for some amount of semi-immortal time. Arwen's doom of marrying Aragorn may make an exception that grants some other doom, but Elladan/Elrohir remain in a weird limbo, and they's also around for 1500+ years. Plus it feels unfair for Dior to get yanked out of the Halls mid-healing if he had been an Elf before this in canon. Plus it undermines the weight of the Choice.
Still, I would be remiss if i didn't mention it, since it's the basis for Christopher's assertion that Dior is mortal, and I want to include the guy who comes to my same conclusion.
B) Luthien, Ahead of Her Time
"But the other choice was this: that she might return to Middle-earth, and take with her Beren, there to dwell again, but without certitude of life or joy. There she would become mortal, and subject to a second death, even as he; and ere long she would leave the world for ever, and her beauty only become a memory in song."
J.R.R.Tolkien, The Silmarillion, Of Beren and Luthien
That's the Choice right there! Luthien explicitly made the choice for mortality! This sets her into the trend established (post-facto) by Elros and Arwen: her children will not make a Choice.
C) Thingol's Heir
The matter of succession in Doriath is confusing, to say the least. At Thingol's death, he has two competing living heirs, depending on your preferred mode of succession: Luthien (absolute or cognatic primogeniture) and Elmo (agnatic primogeniture). Instead, the throne goes to… Dior, the son of the still-living Luthien, only child of Thingol. This fits none of the above stated models of succession, which admittedly aren't the only ways to pick the next leader, but an established rulebook often helps solve crises and wars between competing claimants who all really want to be in charge before they have a chance to start.
Now what it does fit is the Tolkienverse's unspoken rule of No Girl Kings Allowed. (see: Findis is skipped over in Aman for Finarfin, Turgon preferring Maeglin as regent when he left for the Nirnaeth, the absence of any claim from Idril to the High Kingship of the Noldor after Turgon's death (and skipping over Earendil as well, but there were bigger boats to sail for that kid)).
Dior, on the other hand, is outright granted the epithet of Eluchil, or "successor". Whether this was a shrewd political move by Luthien to assert her mortal son's legitimacy in the succession to an almost exclusively elven kingdom is anyone's guess. But either way, he is explicitly noted in the Silmarillion as "Dior Thingol's heir" despite the lack of any proof positive that he'd been trained in statecraft by his grandfather or even been to Menegroth. Very Hanoverian of him, if that was the case. At least he solidified his claim by marrying Nimloth, a noblewoman herself by her relation to Celeborn.
And, at the end of the day, while Doriath was largely an elven kingdom that had historically been run by an Elf and his wizard wife, I think they kind of ran into an Air Bud situation, where there weren't any stipulations that a mortal can't be King. With the political situation at the time (Menegroth recently sacked) there may have been little resistance to an incoming mover and shaker who promised to fix things up.
Also in a very Hanoverian move, I think the title of King of the Sindar did not pass to Dior with the Kingship of Doriath. It's never mentioned in his context, and after Thingol dies the title mostly disappears. It seems to be a pretty empty claim anyways, largely used to assert dominion over lands and people he held no practical sway over on the continent. Maedhros even bullies him for it. So Dior is the King of the fealty of Doriath, but does not call himself king of the people-group that is the Sindar; it's an interesting inversion to late First Age Gil-galad, who is King of the Noldor people-group, but lives in the Havens/Balar that are emphatically Cirdan's lands.
TL;DR: Mortal + mortal = mortal. Ain't no rule say the Man can't rule Doriath.
An Incident occurs and the Finwëan brood of Middle Earth are called to defend themselves.
The silliness continues! @silmarillionepistolary
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Thinking about how awkward it must have been for Finarfin to go back home after turning back from the Doom.
Walk through the front door and say to the wife "Hi honey, I'm home, sorry for mostly-but-not-quite going all the way along with the guys who killed a bunch of your family and stole their most treasured heirlooms. But, good news: by virtue of being the Last Son of Finwe standing in Aman I get to be King of the Noldor!"
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