jonsa foreshadowing of the day: sweetness being a good omen when it fits the agenda
+ âsweetnessâ mention from another post by the same user:
trying on a metaphor
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@jonsasource
jonsa foreshadowing of the day: sweetness being a good omen when it fits the agenda
+ âsweetnessâ mention from another post by the same user:
can jonsas be more disgusting?
yeah they donât read the books
jonsa foreshadowing of the day: jon dreams about having a mother
the second one is plain schizophrenia but the first one is funny too considering grrm is still not sure he will let her live or not lol
whatâs more likely: for jonsas to accept theon into their throuple or to admit theyâre babbling nonsense
jonsa foreshadowing of the day: daenerys feels superior to bastards
jonsa foreshadowing of the day: jon and arya being destined to meet again
jonsa foreshadowing of the day: sansa is ygritteâs foil
jonsas:
also jonsas:
jonsa foreshadowing of the day: chapter order (again?)
Jon: I like my women pretty and deadly, like warriors
Jonsas:
Do you think Jonsa is going to happen? I did read some meta about foreshadowing and it's a "squint if you miss it" but there is stuff. For example. Jonnel/Sansa stark in the family tree. People say the fact that Jon didn't care about Sansa being wed to Tyrion, compared to Arya being wed to Ramsay means he his repressing his painful memories and how he has a secret crush on her.
... tldr and sorry for the harshness: no, but if you want to go into the details, with no offense to anyone shipping it of course:
as I already recently ranted, jon and sansa are in two totally different brackets - jon is a main five, sansa is in the following bracket, jon has the entire chosen one storyline plus being the center of the entire story going on, sansa has the I want the love story and I'll get it plotline which does not mesh with jon's so there's that;
sansa's story arc is admittedly painfully clear in the beginning as in: if she thinks she's going to marry a beautiful gallant pretty prince and she thinks it's joffrey who is like attractive and LOOKS gallant but we all know how it went, then she's going to end up with someone who is the total opposite, also if she wanted to be queen in the beginning then it means she's absolutely not going to be in the end bc her entire arc is about realizing that everything she wanted in the beginning is not what she truly wants, and since jon is absolutely poised to get kingship, divide the kingdoms and fuck off to the wildlings after there is no way that her storyline meshes with his like that;
sansa's only viable love interests at this point on page are sandor and tyrion, the end, which by the way are, guess what, not standard attractive and are two people who need to overcome their trauma but never treated her unfairly, and like... denying that in the text sansa is attracted to sandor (she MAKES UP that he kissed her, she dreams he comes to her on her wedding night, she's all like AH BUT JUST *I* KISSED THE HOUND etc like sorry but that's a thing never mind all the knightly investment subtext) and that sandor is her love interest on text is imvho absolutely senseless - you can ship whatever you want and realize that canon isn't going there and write fanfic, no one is gonna stop you, and I can accept the endgame theory from sansa/tyrion shippers even if I think sansa/sandor is it, but sansa/anyone else is absolutely out of the question;
also sandor is the only one sansa thinks about using all the criteria ned used to describe the knight he would find her which was better than joffrey bless whoever went and did the search (brave gentle and strong) and she doesn't use neither of those terms to think about jon, like there's more evidence for littlefinger based on that and idt lf is gonna be her intended;
they think they're siblings and like I know that saying 'BUT THE INCEST' in these books is not like an automatic NO because there's canon incest and the rival ship ie j*nerys also would be incest but like one thing is jc which is not endgame and plainly described as abusive/unhealthy, one thing is targ incests which like the narrative generally is like HEY THIS WAS NOT A GOOD IDEA ABOUT and one thing is falling in love with someone you thought was your sibling and you grew up with like that the moment you find out you're cousins - that... doesn't work like that. and like while I don't have a horse in this race and j*nerys is hardly my ideal endgame sorry but it's a lot more likely that jon would end up getting with someone who he never met before, was the sister of a father he never knew and doesn't even consider his father and he had no relation with before than with... someone he actually thought was his sister, even if he finds out she's his cousin that doesn't change it;
'repressing painful memories' jon has zero issue thinking about catelyn or sansa not treating him great so idk what he should be repressing;
arya vs sansa question: .... well that's like getting close to the entire point but not getting it, in the sense that while jon didn't take wf because it belonged to sansa - but he said he would have if ygritte had been alive and stannis said he could marry her and not val which I mean... says all honestly - technically he made vows saying he renounced his family which is the entire fucking point re arya - the point is that he didn't give those vows up for robb but he would for arya which was the one he was closest to which is what makes everyone else kill him and no he wouldn't have done that for sansa because she was the only one who kept him at a distance, but...
the entire damned point is that they have to reconnect as siblings. sansa going back north (which is gonna happen) and jon being there and most likely getting legitimized/getting robb's will etc means that they have, as adults (or at least... well not kids) realize that how she treated him was wrong and that they can build a relationship which means that each single text reference to each other which is really nothing romanticâą is posed to tell you THESE TWO WILL BE THE STARK SIBLINGS MEETING FIRST and since they didn't have a close rship before they will forge one now, but that doesn't mean that they're going to be romantic endgame, because jon's point isn't having the uber romantic storyline and sweeping a maiden off her feet and sansa already has at least one love interest posed to do exactly that and while their sl are absolutely meant to intersecate on a sibling finding each other again level they are off when it comes to romance;
also a j*nsa endgame would... imply that she becomes queen of the seven kingdoms and they stay reigning there when sansa is absolutely posed to stay in the north and do her own thing and jon is posed to destroy the united-westeros-because-a-targ-did-it legacy (which like... great bookend bc first legit targ king unites it, bastard stark-targaryen king who most likely is keeping the bastard name undoes it) and he is going to hate each second of it, so it doesn't add up with sansa getting her happy love song fairytale romance... which again she can get from other people that the text strongly pointed at already.
so: no because it makes no sense thematically for either of them and for that matter I don't even think jon*erys is eventual endgame tho I guess it has to happen at this point given the show mess idk but if either of them had to be j*nerys would make a load more sense and I still think that a targ restoration with two monarchs keeping on being monarchs is not what a dude who is obviously anti-monarchy has in mind for the endgame. like no offense to anyone into it ofc but again it has zero textual basis for being romantic endgame and it wouldn't even make either of them happy bc jon is not sansa's gentle brave strong knight and sansa isn't the kind of woman jon is actually into (ygritte reminded him of arya I mean) and idt he'd get romantic feelings for his sister who he's going to think of in that terms anyway so there's my two cents. and I understand that it's not smth that a lot of people would agree with but take it up with grrm because he's the one putting that in the text and not me X°D
Jonsa metas be like: Extended Cut
The miniature rant version
Yeah. Weâre getting tons of romantic content in that corner. Totes. What else is the purpose of Jon Snowâs resurrection? Or rather, what even is the other purpose for Jon Snowâs existence, if not a prop to make their innocent-compassionate-empathetic af precious birb a Princess/Queen/GodEmpress?
(if they could have their way sheâd be ascended to Godhood at this rate)
69? That's your foreshadowing? You wanna convince people your ship's canon based on a mfing position number? What are we, middle schoolers?!
My remaining two braincells cannot handle this poetic parallelđđ©âđ»
Ok real talk folks.....whatâs in that kool aid kid?
Listen, after pulling crap like this, you all have no rights to defend yourselves when we rightfully call you out on this. Absolutely none. No amount of mental gymnastics can justify this.
Presenting to you đ„đ„đ„ Quotes by Jon comparing his first love to his sisterđ„đ„đ„:
âShe reminded him a little of his sister Arya, though Arya was younger and probably skinnier. It was hard to tell how plump or thin Ygritte might be, with all the furs and skins she wore.â
â"If you kill a man, and never meant', he's just as dead," Ygritte said stubbornly. Jon had never met anyone so stubborn, except maybe for his little sister Arya. Is she still my sister? he wondered. Was she ever?â
...... soz there ainât any about Sansa. I checked in the back and all I promise.
And, hate to break it to ya but, remember Catelyn of Houses Tully and Stark? Yeah, she kinda, yâknow, carried the zygote that grew into a fetus over a period of nine months and pushed the said fetus out whom they named Arya. Half of her mother, half a Tully. Thus, half a fish. Pretty sure thereâs even a fish reference that jon made towards Arya regarding her swimming.
............So?
Let's give this a serious consideration. Firstly, lemme get this lil point out in the open: foreshadowing is wildly different from coincidences. Coincidence is there being a Jon(nel) and a Sansa in the same time period in the family, just like the current generation. Parallel/foreshadowing would look something like this:- Jon, who's the half brother of Rickon, just like Jonnel was to Cregan's heir Rickon, would marry the older daughter of Rickon (my son my boyyyy <3<3<3) in a distant future. Capisce?
And finally, the icing on the cake. My personal favourite đ
Look, it's bad enough that the writer decided to pepper in cursed bits throughout the books that make an incestuous pairing highly likely. (by incest i mean the emotional aspect of it, it's not the cousincest or the aunt-nephew bit that peeves me off. It was a common occurrence in the medieval feudalistic society and is still prevalent in today's day and age). At the end of the day, they grew up as siblings. Fighting over which sister gets the âprizeâ that's Jon Snow is ridiculous beyond measure. We didn't start off reading these humongous books thinking "oh this would be a splendid time to ship an incest otp uwu" like no. the only reason I didn't break into tears every time Jon had a very non fraternal thought while reading is because i knew by then, for sure that they're cousins and not siblings (y'all either never had siblings or think fictional siblings work on a different wavelength). Take it up with the author, demand why he chose this sister and not the other for his fOrbiDdEn rOmancE trope. Grab him by shoulders and shake an answer out of him. None of us asked for this ffs. We reached to a conclusion based on what's there in print, not what isn't and simply assuming that there are hidden meanings or that the narrator is so fucking unreliable that he's naming one and thinking of the other or something equally delusional. Dude's literal last thought was Stick them with a pointy end. Which, by the way, is strictly between Jon and Arya, just like Needle. Just like the quote "Different roads sometimes lead to the same castle". And "What do you know of my heart, priestess? What do you know of my sister?" They're all exclusive to them both and them both only.
To all of these asoiaf experts, I'd like to say one thing: For all of his flaws and fallacies, G.R.R.Martin is a brilliant writer. He's not some stupid Oracle of Delphi, sitting in his little ancient greek cave and spewing nonsense and talking in circles. Writers leave out clues in the open, not hide them under the guise of different fucking names for gods sakes.
I'm all for shipping whoever you wanna ship, gods know i have a never ending list- most of them being rarepairs or crackships. But I don't go around twisting canon into something it isn't and subject to mental gymnastics to the point where nothing makes sense anymore. And, read the bloody books before you firmly place your faith in something. Quora/Reddit/Tumblr metas shouldn't be the basis for it. The language is pretty straightforward- if I, a non native english speaker can get it, then so can you.
Cheers.
sometimes you just gotta point and laugh
deadass this jonsa shipper tried to edit a different pronoun into this quote so they could claim itâs jonsa foreshadowing for their meta, but they fucking forgot to delete the original pronoun before posting it oh my goddd you canât make this shit up đ
this is the original text, just in case anyone is curious âââ
This is actually really hilarious but what it also points to is something that Sansa fans, both her OG book fans and her newer more toxic show fans, have been getting away with for too long: blatantly decontextualizing quotes and moments from the novel. In this case they got caught embarrassingly red handed but in many instances, they get notes for their sensational theories and âmetasâ because so many people in their camp havenât read the books or havenât read them properly and thus canât challenge the editing and changing of quotes.