If sakura and hinata were redeemed in naruto, would anyone even care? I feel as if I wouldn't care much, especially for sakura, cuz they've done too much. I think I would still hate them and some others wouldnt buy it.
I mean, say like Sakura was redeemed all of a sudden in boruto, would that be enough to overcome how she she treated other's throughout all the story? Especially Sasuke. Would redeeming her be enough to overcome how she harasses him all the time? Would it be enough to overcome how she chased sasuke and gave him a child he never wanted? Like she gets redeemed and goes "oops, I know you never wanted this but I'm sorry now and I'm a changed person, won't happen again." Like the damage is done, she's harassed him and chased him till he gave in, how can you better yourself after you've gotten what you wanted? redeeming can't reverse that damage. Or how she treated Naruto "sorry for being a bully and hitting you for no reason but I'm changed now, won't do it again." Apart from narusaku audience, which audience is gonna buy that? Like it's unconvincing she would get redeemed and then would apologize to naruto as it just so happens to be when he's hokage and she's got her prize Sasuke. Or for ino she gets redeemed and apologises for how she treated her, but it unconvincing because sakura has won Sasuke, so she and ino aren't fighting over him anymore.
Or for Hinata,"S..so...sorry n.nn....naruto-kun for guilt tripping you to marry me, I.. I.. I won't do it again, I'm better and changed." Like, he's already married to her and started a family. It's not going to mean much?
Based of the ask someone sent abt if it's possible Sakura and hinata could get redeemed. Like you've said in your reply, anyone can get redeemed, but I feel like it would be unconvincing or at the least, take a lot of work to redeem these two. This is just my opinion I could be wrong.
But that's the thing. If Sakura and Hinata were redeemed in Naruto, it would have meant something significant, and it would have contributed to the narrative and plot, because if the plan were to redeem them, then logically Naruto and Sasuke would be made to get together at the end. Look at what Sakura and Hinata represent. Two heteronormative selfish, entitled, unsympathetic, boy crazy girls who would potentially make into women who would force gay men to marry them to keep their illusions of love afloat. They don't give a shit as long as they get what they want, even at the expense of their spouses' well being or their own long term happiness. It was necessary for them to be written that way to facilitate the Brokeback Mountainesque situation in Boruto, no? What with the whole story being a love story and Sakura and Hinata as tools that were used to keep Naruto and Sasuke prisoners to their miserable lives, life of a shinobi who is supposed to live in the darkness, enduring all the misery silently. It's not the kind of world that will accept them, certainly not Naruto, someone who was systematically and institutionally ostracized, an orphaned, homosexual boy who is fated to be THE person in the world that will change it for the better. And this was the only way to resolve this story, in order for it to justify the new gen story, hence becoming the tragic ending that we hate. So the antipathy towards these ladies never got resolved. However, in order for their redemption to happen in the manga, a lot of things would need changing. Like the state of the shinobi world. A lot of things would need changing if Sasuke and Naruto were written to finally get together. Yes, the ending as it is now feels contrived. It is contrived. But it is not meaningless. The shinobi world has been established as a cruel world, where people don't get what they deserve. Look at Haku, look at Madara, look at Kisame, look at Neji, Sasuke, Naruto, Uchiha clan. And those who get it, don't deserve it. Look at Sakura, look at Hinata, look at Sarutobi, look at Tobirama, look at Danzo, look at village elders.
I agree with you that it won't matter if they were redeemed in Boruto. Boruto is not about the boys, they are supporting characters in it. Their story was Naruto and Shippuden. Which is over. And obviously, Kishi made it a point post Shippuden to keep Hinata and Sakura's the same as before, so it doesn't look like he is planning to redeem them. Looks like status quo would persist in the distant future.
However, it could have been done in Shippuden. And like I said in the other post you mentioned, anyone can be redeemed in a show and it is all believable as long as the writer justifies it within the story itself. I used the example of Orange is the new black, because it shows a whole host of complex characters, deeply flawed and yet realistic characters who were written to justly finish their redemption arc. Take Maria's character, a secondary antagonist in the story. Maria is quiet and shy as a kid but given her circumstances, she transforms into a take charge dynamo of a person, very impressive and self assured, she takes after her religious leader/drug trafficker father, who can charm the masses and lead them. She steals from her place of work, she cheats on her husband, she doesn't feel any regret about it. She gets caught and is sentenced for fraud. She works her way in the prison, but navigating the prison life brings out the worst in her, she eventually becomes the leader of the prison riot. She becomes a full fledged bully, a sadist, she has no ethical compass anymore. This leads to her stint in the max security prison, where she is made to eat the humble pie, she learns that life could get even harder, and the choices she has been making has been leading her into even deeper shit, away from her daughter that she loves so much, away from her friends that were her family in the prison. She joins the church, she makes amends to people she has harmed. Her redemption arc is shown throughout the last two seasons, by the end of which, she makes the least destructive of all choices, she apologizes to Gloria, her close friend whom she betrayed, and lets her loving and kind husband to marry the woman he loves, her husband whom she treated very unkindly in the past, despite him being so devoted to her. She agrees to let her husband marry another woman, a woman he loves genuinely, because for once, she thinks about her husband, and not herself. She commits a selfless act.
There were many instances where Sakura was written with a possibility to demonstrate maturity. The reason why Kishi wrote those scenes that way was that, when a character does something decidedly immature at a place or time where the opportunity was so damn ripe to do something mature, and doesn't do it despite everything that has happened before in the plot which had led to the current situation, the character loses credibility in the eyes of the audience. Audiences aren't foolish. Any good writer knows this. The way Kishi wrote Sakura's scenes, stresses even more on the fact that her character simply didn't evolve. Remained the same. That's what narrative motifs are about. This way, the reader is able to glean the meaning out of the scene, as intended by the author easily. It makes the impression the author wants his writing to make. Kishi made it quite clear that the reason why Naruto followed Sasuke was to save him and help him, to relieve his loneliness, to protect him. To be there for him, because he loves Sasuke and he KNOWS Sasuke reciprocates his feelings, even if he makes excuses to hide them, actions speak louder than words. As is evidenced in vote one especially. Sakura was written to chase after Sasuke for her own selfish reasons, where she simply ignores the need to know the truth about Uchiha massacre or any wish to actually know or understand Sasuke. Which Sasuke is clearly shown to understand about her. That's why he keeps telling her that she is annoying, just casually, an off the cuff remark lol. But when Naruto follows him, he gets very reactive, very disturbed, very distracted. Because he knows why Naruto is doing it, he suspects it. He keeps asking Naruto why because he wants to get confirmation from Naruto. Which he gets at the end. Point is, Sakura was shown to be selfish till the end, starting with part one, and then in the kage arc, war arc, just before vote two, at the end when she responds to Sasuke's apology as if she deserved it all along, and then asks if Sasuke would take her on his redemption journey. And then in Boruto and Gaiden.
Naruto on the other hand is shown as the one who is ready to share Sasuke's burdens and die with him in the same scene where Sakura tried to stab Sasuke in the back.
If you truly have conviction in your love, if you know that you love for the right reasons and if you truly care about your object of love, you would do things very differently from what Sakura did to Sasuke consistently in the manga. And all of it was shown to be done by Naruto. Who knows he loves for the right reasons, he would be a fool in love but not leave Sasuke's side because that's how much he believes, they resonated with each other even when they didn't know how to articulate it, they were both lonely. Naruto believes in his love for Sasuke and he knows Sasuke loves him, because he showed it to Naruto, with actions more than words. Naruto changes, he evolves in the course of the manga, he becomes better in every aspect, because he is constantly inspired by the memory of Sasuke, because of the motivation of protecting him and being his rock.
True love is courageous. True love doesn't hide behind empty words and excuses. True love justifies the words that have been said by the lovers. True love doesn't say the words and then take them back in the face of adversities. True love makes it happen despite the odds. That's the glory of true love. That's why it inspires us. That's why Sasuke was convinced by Naruto and not anyone else at the end. Sakura was given all the chances and suggestive realisations but still no redemptive action. Same with Hinata. She realises she is being selfish when jumping in the fight against Pein but she does it anyway because she couldn't help being attracted to Naruto and needed to make an impression on him at the expense of the whole village and Naruto's life, followed by getting trolled by Kishi when Sakura hugs Naruto in front of her. Still no redemptive action. Not even in the war arc when Neji died.
If you can make it believable, anyone can be redeemed, just need to justify it properly. And of course, it won't be an isolated event, it would influence the plot and characters that are connected with them.
Like for example, think about a character such as Oro. He was written to be dreaded, reviled, to cause shivers down the spine, and nervousness, to create a feeling of unease and anticipation, right? Because he is cruel and an evil genius, he is always a step ahead of his opponent, he is clever as a fox. But even he was redeemed. And no, the idea of his redemption was not just at the end when he supported the war efforts. The feeling of antipathy towards him went once he confronts the dead kages in the war arc and supports Sasuke. All through Shippuden, the audience is made to see how none of the adults in their world even attempts to understand Sasuke's predicament and given the amount of focus Kishi spent on making the readers understand Sasuke's tragic past, it makes you feel frustrated to see how no one in the plot tries to even understand Sasuke's side.
Even though Kakashi is shown to acknowledge that Sasuke has truly suffered given his past, he still doesn't understand him. And Sasuke's attitude towards him doesn't improve till the end. At best, he becomes close to indifferent to Kakashi at the end. It's all understandable because it makes sense, because Kakashi has already been established as a complacent and unquestioning tool of the shinobi system. He is emotionally inept and doesn't understand his own team members. And he thinks Naruto and Sasuke are just rivals while Sakura's love for Sasuke has matured, she really loves Sasuke, a girl who is kind and gentle. Lol.
This was Itachi, but who's surprised? Itachi is the definition of tool of the system.
With Itachi, Sasuke tries his best to express his frustration with the system that was evidently so deeply unfair, he tried to explain where his anger came from, which is all very justified. He appeals to Itachi's love for him, and Itachi admits he was wrong to treat Sasuke as a blank canvas, as a kid who didn't understand the world. We again get to see yet another adult, someone who is this close to Sasuke, not understand Sasuke's predicament. Despite Sasuke's desperate attempts. Even Sasuke gets it at the end that there's no point explaining anything further to Itachi, he is brainwashed to the hilt. But he was still Sasuke's brother, and he did take the blame for being the reason why Sasuke was the way he was. But the audience is left frustrated nevertheless. After all this build up to show how cruel Danzo was and how the elders and Sarutobi were complicit in the massacre, we still see them regarding it lightly, as if it is an everyday event. And it compounds our frustration.
No cost is big enough for the apparent safety of Konoha, as per Danzo, but we all know Danzo did it for personal gain, his megalomania, the power hungry despot in him who traded power for hate and destroyed a whole clan like so many stray animals. Danzo was basically a hypocrite. A lot of characters were, in the name of Konoha.
After which she promptly made a plan to go kill Sasuke and attempted it.
And then there were others.
No one really cared. Except Naruto of course, shown in kage arc.
Oro is the only adult who supports Sasuke and says something that all the sane audiences have been wanting for someone to say. Someone reliable, someone who would make sense of it, someone who would reassure us that we weren't crazy, that whatever we are feeling is justified. Kishi is not blind to it either, but he needed to set up this world as deeply unfair, and he was going for eternity apparently, lol, which is why nothing really changed much even after Shippuden. None of these characters were redeemed, the ones that never understood Sasuke.
We are clearly shown by Kishi why it was that Oro changed his decision, he was not interested in participating in the war at all, his objectives were in no way benefited from the war. He was interested in Sasuke and even when he is reincarnated by Sasuke, he is still after Sasuke's body. But Sasuke had his own reasons to have brought back Oro and he tells him, Oro is intrigued. He is concerned so he tells Sasuke to not get embroiled, but Sasuke lets him know he can handle it and that he isn't a child. Sasuke shows agency. He is determined, there's a mature look to him, a certain calm strength of will. He realized what Sasuke has been through, he who understands Sasuke's motivation very well. He knew Sasuke went through hell, to be able to kill Itachi, and then he was told the truth about him, he was manipulated even by him, as he himself admits, but he can see that Sasuke has changed, grown. And this convinces Oro to help him, who is now invested in Sasuke's future, even if he doesn't particularly benefit from it. In the scene when all the dead kages are brought back, we are waiting to see what will happen with baited breath, it's a big deal. The crescendo is building and building, big credit to Oro who kept goading and goading, putting all those thoughts in words that we were thinking all along.
"It's really not that complex a jutsu....". He tells it like it is with such dry wit and sharp sarcasm, he trolls Tobirama and how. Hahahah. He calls him out left and right and it is then reiterated by Hashirama. Full entertainment guaranteed. He unequivocally takes Sasuke's side and he doesn't have a hidden agenda anymore. He threatens to destroy Konoha himself lol. He threatens all the kages, all the leaders of Konoha, people who made very bad decisions. He genuinely wants to see the way Sasuke's wind would blow. And when he feels Sasuke's life is being threatened by Tobirama, he positions himself for retaliation and is ready to protect Sasuke.
Sasuke resonates with Oro. Even though Oro was portrayed as a ruthless, mad genius, cruel and manipulative villain, whose past (childhood) was suggested to be equally unfair, but who has been hunting our favourite characters, harming them, torturing them, of course he was reviled by readers. But then, he is made to do the one thing no other adult could do. And it suits him very well. He is one who wanted to get all the victims of this unfair world together and make his own village, he was a non conformist, he was the outlier, someone who understands the ways of this world very well and takes advantage of it for his own benefit without regret, he refused to pander to the shinobi world's ways, he decided to make his own. It suited him to go his own way, being disinterested in war and to root for something/someone he was interested in. Sasuke. He puts his hand where his mouth is. Unlike others, he is not a hypocrite. He has seen wars too closely and he knows what it does to people. All the collateral damage. Sasuke is able to relate with Oro. This is what redeemed Oro, to whatever extent he has been redeemed to. Of course it doesn't make all his other actions alright, but it does soften our impression of him and we lose the edge of antipathy towards him.
And this was done properly. It was made to look believable. You are right, it takes work. The ladies' redemption doesn't mean anything now, in Boruto. It could have meant something back then, but Kishi wasn't going for it in any case.
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