Hello! I can understand Japanese and follow people in the Japanese lolita community on SNS like Twitter, and let me tell you Japanese lolitas are not immune to drama and discourse like some overseas people think. Here are some discourse/drama I've seen amongst Japanese lolitas online recently:
The girly-kei vs lolita debate: the reoccurring debate that got brought back when axes femme kawaii started labeling themselves a lolita brand which many lolitas and non-lolita axes-femme wearers were shocked by because axes femme kawaii was always considered a girly brand. This lead to the debate on whether a "lolita" coord using girly kei brand main pieces (like Amavel and axes femme kawaii) could even count as lolita.
"I'll answer here. Regarding using lolita hashtags, shouldn't Amavel and axes femme kawaii clothes be included in the lolita clothes category? I apologize for offending anyone because of my ignorance. From now on, I will stop using lolita tags."
"Excuse me for intruding from outside your following/followers. It seems like axes femme kawaii is classified under casual lolita, so I think it's fine to tag it as lolita. Amavel seems to fall more in the girly category so some people might get offended if you use lolita tags for it. Sorry for the long explanation."
"I feel like there's a lot of people who follow the girly to lolita pipeline, so I thought the axes kawaii line's role was to bridge the gap between girly and lolita. Maybe Amavel too."
"I like lolita fashion, I also like girly styles like axes femme, LIZLISA, and Ank Rouge, but I don't like calling the latter lolita. It's hard to explain because of my poor word choices, I'm not saying girly should be treated lesser than lolita, but rather I just think using lolita for girly-kei is pretty inappropriate."
"No, axes isn't a lolita brand lol, tbh the quality is pretty decent though. The kawaii line has some lolita-ish designs but they're still p small for lolita. I'm not an axes-anti bc I used to exclusively wear axes stuff until a year ago. There's also a lot of girly stuff like Amavel and Ank (Rouge) that's easy to match with lolita."
"There's been a concern for the decline of lolita brands due to the community aging out and the lack of new people coming in, but even in such a case, there are still old bitter haters who won't recognize axes femme kawaii as a lolita brand. And then there are people who are angry at those saying such things and blaming them for the lack of new people entering lolita. They're the epitome of THE Otaku lol."
The BODYLINE debate: unlike in the overseas community, BODYLINE is still very much looked down upon by Japanese lolitas even today. Wearing any BODYLINE is just as bad as wearing a replica to Japanese lolitas. Sometimes Japanese lolitas even censor BODYLINE or refer to it as 体線 (the literal japanese kanji for body+line) when talking about it online. BODYLINE's bad rep in Japanese lolita circles is almost irrefutable except for the "baby fish lolitas" who insist on being allowed to buy BODYLINE bc it's cheap (sound familiar?).
"It'd be one thing if you were a beginner who got misled but to wear BODYLINE anyways, 'BODYLINE is so cute!" "Cheap and cute is the best!" I'm sorry I don't think I can take you seriously as a lolita if you say stuff like that."
"I'm not criticizing beginners who don't know any better, but when it's a lolita who's been around and knows their stuff but continues to wear BODYLINE I'm like ???"
"Even if Amavel and axes could be forgiven, if BODYLINE was allowed, lolita would likely collapse. Because of that, I will never call it lolita even if my mouth was forced open."
"Seems like the lolita community is in the gutter again with newbies and vets meeting... BODYLINE is known for making tons of replicas of lolita brands, and they also provide these costumes for skeevy adult productions. Lolita is just average clothing, not cosplay. So it makes sense that so many lolitas would be uncomfortable with BODYLINE costumes being considered lolita clothes."
The ryousan influencer "lolita cosplay" incident (+ other non-lolita influencers treating lolita like costumes and not respecting the rules): a while back, a popular ryousangata influencer took on a sponsorship to endorse a Japanese-marketed chinese lolita reseller service. Unfortunately she promoted it by saying it's for "lolita costumes" and that the lolita clothes they sell are "cosplay clothes for events", it didn't help that the clothes shown were in fact on the more costumey side of lolita. So of course many Japanese lolitas called her out for treating lolita as cosplay/costumes simply for non-lolitas' novelty entertainment.
"For lolita costumes, go to Maiden's Reve, they have a lot of cheap convenient cosplay clothes recommended for events! People who like this sort of style will definitely fall in love, plus they also sell clothes suitable for ryousangata and jirai people's tastes so be sure to check it out!"
"Please stop referring to lolita as costumes and cosplay."
"Lolita isn't just cheap cosplay, right? Isn't that what they say? There was a similar problem like this too the other day..."
"These are not lolita clothes."
"Because I love you [influencer]-chan, I want you to realize that lolita isn't cosplay..."
"Even though she's a huge influencer, why can't she tell the difference between cheap cosplay costumes and lolita?"
"Does this person really think lolita clothes are just 'cheap cosplay costumes?"
"Lolita YouTubers, aren't there a lot of people who have no morals nowadays?? The other day, there was someone endorsing a BODYLINE (replica maker) petticoat, and then there's [influencer]-chan who endorsed a BABY replica (introduced as a 2000 yen dress from China) so openly. It should be unthinkable and yet..."
There are still so much more drama that happens in the Japanese lolita community... Japanese lolitas are not immune to having harsh opinions, being catty, being critical, being passive aggressive, and just overall being disagreeable. Japanese lolitas do care. They even still care about stuff the English community no longer cares about. The fantasy of all universally accepting tolerant Japanese lolitas who don't care about rules is nowhere close to the reality. And if you're curious about whether Japanese lolitas like y'all's amazon dresses...
"I don't understand people who call themselves lolita just for wearing cheap chinese cosplay lolita and amavel. I'm like eh? Lolita? Where? I know that SHEIN and Amazon's clothes aren't lolita either."
TL (+ video link, Alice Karasuma is very popular and reputable Japanese lolita influencer/VTuber who gives advice to beginners)
"Personally, I call the The Big Three Scams... [Explanation] Don't Buy Lolita Clothes on Amazon! [Gothic Lolita Edition]"
"Sad bc my dad won't let me buy BABY after I told him about it bc it's too expensive! I was really mad! But since I won't make it in time for the Gothic Lolita Market, I decided to buy lolita clothes from Amazon. When I looked through, I found a ton of cute clothes on Amazon! Though, I'd be happy to wear western-style lolita clothes either way..."
"Nice to meet you, [OP]-san. I'm glad to see there's more young people getting interested in the fashion. BABY is expensive but we really don't recommend buying lolita from Amazon, there's a lot of replicas and scam products being sold and cases where items are being marketed as genuine Lolita brands but are actually not. We recommend buying secondhand items from VioletBlue and lucky bags as cheap ways to start your lolita journey!"
"To those wondering whether to buy lolita on Amazon or elsewhere, I simply tell them "there's no way you can guarantee the quality on Amazon, so I recommend buying from an official secondhand store!""
"Stop calling the frilly clothes from Amazon, cheap online mail-order sites, and BODYLINE lolita. They're just lolita cosplay."
"There's no way someone can come across Amazon's flimsy paper cloth lolita and actually think it's lolita!!!!"
