This is from a debate I was having on discord. This means a lot to me so I've decided to put it up here :
I have three things to say. Read all three as all the arguments are connected and rely on each other.
1.Why you shouldn't call K and Finkel nazis:
(I use strong language in this btw, just thought I'd say in case y'all are uncomfortable with that.) It is both literally and morally wrong to call K and Finkel nazis. They are Wehrmacht, not nazis. (That's not to say some Wehrmacht weren't nazis, there were some right psychos there too.) Aside from being literally incorrect, calling them nazis completely fucks over not just their actions as people but also the very real heroes that "served" the nazi party. The main beef I feel ye have with them is their spreading of nazi propaganda/indoctrination of children. Yeah fair enough, that wasn't very cash money of them, no one here is denying that. I'm mentioning this now because I want you all to know that I'm not glossing over their previous actions. However I'm moving on from that just for now but I will come back to it later. This argument clearly runs deeper than fictional characters in an anti-hate satire so I'm going to step outside the box for a bit. So, what exactly is a nazi, by our moral definition? Ask anyone who isn't a neo-nazi and they will tell you that they are a physical representation of cuntism. They were fascistic, anti-semitic, inglorious bastards who are recognised for their total abuse of power. When we call neo-nazis, nazis we don't do so because they are members of Hitlers nazi party, we do so because they reflect the aforementioned traits of nazism. The word 'nazi' is basically a slur, as it describes an absolute cunt. It's for that reason that we can't just casually call everyone and anyone remotely linked to WW2 Germany a nazi. The people of Germany(, while I acknowledge that many did support Hitler,) weren't all nazis. They lived in a totalitarian dictatorship and would have had their families as well as themselves killed for not showing total subservience. I studied Nazi Germany in school last year and I'll never forget how my teacher described the loud speakers, blaring out vicious propaganda that was impossible to ignore.
Guys, none of us lived in Nazi Germany. None of us actually experienced it. We can all sit here and act like we would totally join the resistance but in reality, that took some mad balls. Balls we can't even begin to imagine. Not resisting wasn't so much an act of cowardice, as actually resisting was an act of immense bravery. But if we're getting into the habit of calling people who resisted the only good people, then what would you call Oskar Schindler? Schindler, who I would hope you all know, saved the lives 1200 Jewish people. And yet he was a member of the nazi party. Schindler is not a unique case, as I have mentioned previously on a tumblr post there were also Wehrmacht soldiers such as Karl Plaage and Anton Schmid who risked their lives saving hundreds of Jewish lives. Schmid's case even resulted in his death. Yet by your standards they are still "nazis" - violent, anti-semitic, pathetic cunts. I'll now bring it back to the common German people of the time who were silent when jews needed them to scream. Let's step into their shoes for just a moment. Let's imagine you see a nazi dragging a man suspected of being Jewish out of his shop. You know it's wrong and you want to help the guy. The only thing you can really do in this moment is walk up to the nazi and try to bargain with him. Now the nazi, being a nazi instantly sees you as a Jewish sympathiser and declares you culpable. Congratulations, you are now to be arrested and/or killed as well as your spouse, your relatives and, well, heck seeing as you're so good to these Jews maybe you're one, therefore your kids are, so now they're fucked too. "These are very paranoid times" after all, what else was the poow wittle nazi supposed to do? I understand stand that the majority of you would be the Jewish person in this situation but I ask you, if you had the option would you really risk the lives of everyone you ever loved over a stranger? Even Rosie, "the actual good person" said she would abandon Elsa if it meant protecting Jojo. I shall now recount a post from @sing-for-theongreyjoy, who witnessed a talk with Hannah Posner, a Jewish woman who would have been have been 10 years old half way through the war. This woman who experienced the Krystallnacht, had her synagogue and school burned down, witnessed her parents shop being destroyed and had her father imprisoned and starved, recognises that these people had no choice. The actual victim of the nazi ideologies recognises that just because people were forced into it, it doesn't mean they were all nazis. We need to acknowledge that many of the people who had to fight in the war, were forced. By forced I mean they could do the things or they and their loved ones would die. Many of these soldiers were children. These kids were indoctrinated and many had lost their families. Take Hans-Georg for example:
These children, these people, were abused. They are victims. I understand your irritation towards people being silent, but what the fuck were they supposed to do? Just be like naw, fuck you nazi man with a loaded gun pointed at my head, I ain't putting your propaganda posters up. You could argue that they should have stopped Hitler in the early days, to that I can only say that attempts were made. Taika himself put it wonderfully. When Germany was stripped of all it's dignity after WW1 people needed something to give them hope. Hitler brought that hope. But with that hope he brought little hints of facism. People blinded by the hope they so desperately needed ignored all these little things until it became a very big thing. This is a dangerous form of manipulation we need to recognise in today's society so that we may prevent such horrors from ever happening again. I'm not saying that these people are completely innocent, that their complacency is totally justified and their silence did no harm. But calling them nazis is an insult to their trauma, and it turns a blind eye to the people in the army who did protect Jews.
2. K and Finkel's "Complacency":
So back to the boys. Indoctrinating children, not their finest hour. I'm pretty sure every one in this chat recognises that that was a really bad thing that they reaaaallllly shouldn't have done. They're not "innocent" or "pure". However to suggest that they were cowards who remained "silent" and "indifferent" is down right false. There's this unusual dismissal of the possibility that they were in the resistance. Like straight up, ye seem to have no time for that very plausible theory.Simply by looking at the script we can see that they were privy to information that they really shouldn't have been. Take the gestapo scene for example. In the og script Klenzendorf directly tries to hide Elsa's hide out, knowing fully well what it is and what he's doing. In both the og and the current one he shows clear discomfort and dismay when people start talking about Rosie. He didn't show up to Jojo's house at a coincidental time. He knew Rosie was dead, he knew she was in the resistance, and he knew Jojo and his Jewish friend were in danger. He didn't just act randomly on the spot saving Elsa, he could have stayed at home and let them be captured. But no, he stood against the gestapo putting both himself and Freddy in an excruciatingly dangerous situation. Aside from the gestapo scene, his informal relationship with Rosie is more proof that he worked with the resistance. I don't care how much of a boss ass bitch you are, you don't kick a captain of the wehrmacht in the nuts and expect to live the next day. They've met many a time before, yet none of ye are even willing to consider the possibility of him being in the resistance? If it's because they were soldiers, well I've ready given examples of real life soldiers who used their positions of power to contribute to the resistance. Plus, they're homosexuals and "let it be known homosexuals are not cowards!". There seems to be a misunderstanding that when we bring up their sexuality, that we're trying to say that because they're oppressed, they can oppress others. Wha- no. Tf? You've completely missed what we're getting at. Their sexuality just works to complicate their situation. If anything, it works as greater proof that they were in the resistance while also adding even more danger to their situation. But even if we're going to ignore the obvious signs that they helped the resistance (no wait it's a fact, they did help the resistance at least once by helping Elsa), K is still not a coward. He did not fear his own death, he feared Freddy's. K literally lives just to keep Freddy safe. When Freddy dies, he's more than willing to sacrifice himself to save Jojo. So no, they weren't complacent cowards. They were rebels who gave the biggest 'fuck you' to the nazis you could imagine wearing their fabulous pink triangle creations.
3. What is a good person? :
Or more accurately, what is a bad person? Was Oskar Schindler a bad person? Well he certainly wasn't perfect. But can we really call him a nazi knowing all the implications of that term? Nazis as we know them are people who are racist, anti-semitic and takes pleasure in the act of oppressing minorities (if you can even call them a minority). To say that that term denotes to anything less is a fucking lie. The characters in Jojo Rabbit are tricky. They reflect reality as none of them are black and white. As Scarjo said, "The characters in the story are all multifaceted. They're flawed and then also very much celebrated and do unexpected things, good and bad." Taika's writing is one of love and humanity. One that shows us Nazi Germany in the most accurate light possible. Germany didn't go batshit insane in a day. We need to understand these people and help them, instead of ignoring the issue until it evolves into something beyond our control. I've noticed a certain level of hypocrisy in the arguments above (side note- I was referring to arguments made in the discord) . Everyone seems to understand that these characters aren't black and white. And yet, when it comes to Rosie and Elsa you're quick to jump back on such a flat label as "good person". Rosie still sent her son to the Hitler Youth, isn't that active participation in the nazi war effort? I already mentioned that she would leave Elsa for dead if needs be. Don't worry, I'm not going to drop so low as to call her 'a bad person', now that would be dumb. But by your logic, these things would make her a nazi. These characters lean more on the good side of the scale, but that doesn't make them perfect. They've all done bad things, things they recognise as bad and try desperately to counteract with things that are 'good'. K and Finkel are a perfect example of this. I've said it once and I'll say it again; they're not black and white, they're a fucking rainbow.
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