A Blog With Panache @magicianpanache - Tumblr Blog

thinking about how dragons increase the agency of Targaryen women yet fail to protect them from the control of their male relatives and from - pardon my lack of vocabulary - society in general. Rhaenys the lesbian can feed her 3rd husband to her dragon, yet she still has to marry him in order to continue her relationship with her lover. Rhaenys can disappear following her Aerea taking Balerion to Valyria yet a dragon cannot protect her from Maegor; a dragon rider and the king.

Alysanne can peace out when she and Jaehaerys fight yet she cannot tell him to stuff it when he wants their likely disabled daughter Daella married or sent to the Silent Sisters. The fact she doesn’t leave over this also tells us that she still operates believes in the societal limitations for noble girls; even if she tried to have Daenerys named heir.

Saera goes to the dragon pit after she escapes the Red Keep and her abusers because a dragon is the easiest way to gtfo. But having a dragon would also allow her to defend herself from abuse in the future. Jaehaerys rage as a result is two part 1) he’s definitely controlled who gets a dragon in order to keep dragons limited to the core line is succession and 2) she’s the daughter who humiliated him and threatened the paternal control over his “womenfolk” that he feels he is entitled to due to Westerosi societal expectations.

Rhaenys the Queen Who Never Was is able to take an active role in the Dance of the Dragon and therefore die in battle because she is a dragon rider. More importantly, post Great Council of 101, Viserys has to reintegrate Rhaenys’ family back into the succession partially if not mostly because Rhaenys and her children have dragons. Yet she is still the Queen Who Never Was not Queen Rhaenys because Jaehaerys/Vaegon/The Great Council refused to put a woman on the throne.

so yes while dragons give Targaryen women more agency than their First Men or Andal counterparts, they still live in a feudal patriarchy that limits their personal and political freedoms

thecatsaesthetics

Hello! Hope you're doing well. A while back you said you could write a whole thing about Alysanne being weirdly sinister about her children, especially her daughters and Baelon. I completely forgot that she did not want him to remarry after Alyssa's death which was super odd. I'd love to hear more of your thoughts on those things. If you want to that is.

I think Alysanne is an incredibly interesting character, I wouldn't call her sinister because that implies she is doing harm intentionally and I don't view her that way. Alysanne is both villain and victim, and I would classify her more as a tragic character then a sinister one.

I think Alysanne fits with the tragedy that is to be born a Targaryen woman. She is groomed from birth to be her brother's counter part, she is deemed "special" as a dragon rider, she watches as her brother-husband claims that their blood line is "exceptional" and then watches as her family becomes victims to the very common diseases and deaths that happen in Westeros. Her mother dies in childbirth, her son dies an infant, her daughter dies of plague, two of her daughters die in child birth, her son dies in battle, etc.

I think in terms of Baelon, she favored him. He was "hers" whereas Aemon was for Jaehaerys. She is the one who insisted upon a marriage between Baelon and Alyssa, despite Aemon being the son and heir (and thus being in need of a sister-wife counterpart). Baelon and Alyssa relationship mirrors that of Jaehaerys and Alysanne. You can read this meta on Alyssa, which I love because this fandom has really tried to act like Alyssa and Baelon are this "perfect" Targaryen couple but if you read the text closely you can see a bunch of issues that fans ignore.

In terms of Baelon post Alyssa, I don't think Alysanne's actions are sinister but rather her protecting herself. If she truly saw herself in Baelon and Alyssa then Baelon remarrying would be a threat to her own place in this Targaryen legacy. If Alyssa can be replaced, so could she if Jaehaerys needed. Again her marriage to Jaehaerys is what defines her, she was married as a child and groomed to be his wife.

Viserra is a threat in her mind, when really Viserra's actions scream of a child in need of help. First of all, the fact that Alysanne claims that Viserra wants to be Queen because she seems to want to marriage to her brother is very telling. Baelon was not heir at this time, and even if they knew Aemon would have no more children, it still doesn't seem likely that Baelon would have succeeded. Aemon as King could have easily declared his grandson his heir if he didn't want Rhaenys.

So how could Viserra know she would become Queen if she married Baelon? She would be a second wife to a second son. It's more likely that Viserra didn't want to be sent away from family, after watching what happened to her sisters Daella and Saera. So Alysanne's claim is more reflective upon herself, and her own desire to be Queen. And the idea of someone, even her own daughter, taking that from her is hurtful. So she chooses to send Viserra into a marriage where she would likely never seen her family again, to an aging lord (who likely had sons already). It's a punishment for attempting to take what Alysanne has been told is hers, her specialness.

It's just so fucking sad, and I don't necessarily think that Alysanne wanted to be a villain and in many ways she was a victim but she caused lasting trauma on her daughters. Similar to her sister Rhaena, who is both victim and villain, it's the lasting legacy of Targaryen women. They are the counterparts to their brother-husbands and thus also are complicit in their crimes. Alysanne really highlights this, Alysanne ends up alone on Dragonstone. After being denied the right to attempt to see her only living daughter, after being denied her granddaughters birth right, after losing her last daughter to a mysterious end. She is alone, and it seems she dies alone, for all the maesters do to push the idea that Jaehaerys had this great love for her he doesn't even seem to be there when she dies. Nor do we get any indication that he mourned her death. Alysanne is alone, abandoned in a sense. A haunting reminder that Targaryen women might be placed as a "counterpart" to their husband but can never escape or be allowed the same level of power.

blue-mint-winter

I read your Alyssa Targaryen meta, I thought it was brilliant, and I wanted to add my own thoughts on Alyssa and the J+A family.

First, I wanted to say I was thinking about Daenerys and how her death impacted Jaehaerys and Alysanne in how they treated their younger daughters. Alysanne, I think, was absolutely devastated by Daenerys's death and it became the defining trauma of her life. I think Alysanne blamed herself for Daenerys's death and thought that she could have prevented it if she had been a better mother, or that the gods had taken Daenerys away to punish Alysanne for having failed as a mother. I think that Alysanne's tragic loss of her first daughter can be compared to Lysa Tully's forced abortion, in that both women blamed themselves for not being able to protect their children, as society says a good mother should, and considered themselves bad mothers for it. Furthermore, Alysanne and Lysa both coped with their losses by being excessively attentive to a 'fragile' younger child, in Lysa's case, Sweetrobin, and in Alysanne's case, Daella. I think that both Alysanne and Lysa are deeply traumatized women who are much too protective over their child as a case of overcompensating for a perceived failure of another child. It's perhaps a case of self-soothing, in that Alysanne and Lysa might both be thinking "if I can keep this child safe from harm, maybe I'm not a terrible mother after all." This might be controversial, but I am convinced that Alysanne's relationship with Daella falls as much into unhealthy codependency as Lysa's relationship with Sweetrobin. Alysanne and Lysa both even have special pet names for their children: "my little flower" and "my Sweetrobin." Some in the fandom think that Lysa would have had a healthier relationship with Sweetrobin if he hadn't been her only living child, but I think that even if she had other children with Jon Arryn, she would have smothered Sweetrobin just the same, and the other children would have been largely ignored.

I think that Alysanne is supposed to be interpreted by readers as a 'helicopter' parent when it comes to Daella; her attention and energy being mostly spent on one child meant that she had little of either to give to her other children, especially her daughters.

Jaehaerys, on the other hand, though he is said to have "loved" Daenerys "fiercely", he became a more detached parent to his younger daughters than he was to her, perhaps because of her death. Jaehaerys seems to have been somewhat distant from his younger daughters except for Saera, who he indulged with gifts and who have her everything she asked for, but never tried to discipline her or give her any guidance. I think it's possible that he never made the time or had the inclination to be as involved in Saera's life or the lives of her other sisters as he had been involved in raising Daenerys and his sons because of his trauma surrounding Daenerys's death.

So if Daenerys's death and the trauma it caused her parents makes Jaehaerys more withdrawn from his younger daughters, and it makes Alysanne almost exclusively focused on tending to Daella, that means that Alyssa, Maegelle, Saera, and Viserra are getting very little attention from either parent. The fandom can more easily see that the younger set (Saera and Viserra) is affected by the lack of parental attention, but it's harder to see when it comes to the older set (Alyssa and Maegelle).

Second, I think the reason the Arbor gold incident happens isn't that Alyssa is angry that Vaegon upset Daella, it's that she's angry that Vaegon took Alysanne's affection and attention away from Alyssa. This is the relevant quote:

Princess Daella, as might be expected, burst into tears and fled the hall, with her mother, the queen, rushing after her. It fell to her sister Alyssa, at thirteen three years Vaegon's elder, to pour a flagon of wine over his head.

I think that Alyssa wasn't upset on Daella's behalf, but rather her own. Alysanne running after Daella and leaving her other children in the dust is perhaps a common occurrence in the Red Keep, as it's said that rarely a day goes by when Daella is not in need of comfort, and Alysanne is generally the provider of said comfort. I think Alyssa feels very hurt that her mother doesn't spend more time with her, and she's upset at Vaegon for cutting into what little time Alysanne will give her. I think Alyssa's thoughts toward Vaegon aren't really "You jerk, you upset my little sister!", but really "You jerk, you made Mother leave me again!" I don't think Alyssa really loved Daella, I think she hated her for taking up so much of Alysanne's time. Even Daella's death didn't mean that Alysanne spent any more time with Alyssa, it just meant that Alysanne turned her attention to Gael as the fragile flower that needed her constant care, and Gael had to bear the burden of her mother's compunded grief over both Daenerys and Daella*.

*It's often pointed out by fans that Gael acted as an emotional crutch for Alysanne after Daella's death, but I've never seen anyone but me come up with the idea that Daella herself had acted as Alysanne's emotional crutch to cope with her grief over Daenerys.

As for Alyssa's tomboyish behavior and pursuit of more traditionally masculine activities, I think she realized from an early age that Aemon and Baelon got more attention from Jaehaerys for being boys, and she tried to get her father's attention and affection by acting like the boys.

I think your comparison of Alyssa to Cersei was brilliant, and I would like to add that, like you, I saw a lot of Cersei's relationship to Tyrion in Alyssa's relationship to Vaegon. I think that before there was the valonqar prophecy, Cersei hated Tyrion primarily because he was a boy. In their first recorded interaction, Cersei goes for the groin attack:

When I commented that you seemed a poor sort of monster, your sister said "He killed my mother," and twisted your little cock so hard I thought she was like to pull it off. You shrieked, but it was only when your brother Jaime said 'Leave him be, you're hurting him,' that Cersei let go of you.

(ASOS, Tyrion V)

I think Cersei was at an age where she began to understand the rigid gender roles of her society and the importance given to men over women. She was beginning to understand that men had privileges that would never be granted to her, that men not only were given agency over their own lives, but also power over women's lives:

King Baelor imprisoned his own sisters, whose only crime was being beautiful. The first time Cersei heard that tale, she had gone to Tyrion's nursery and pinched the little monster till he cried. I should have pinched his nose shut and stuffed my sock into his mouth.

(AFFC, Cersei VI)

I think Cersei figured out really young that Tyrion would always get more, and better, from society than her because he was male and she was female, and she hated that the little monster who took her mother's life, who would never fit the Westerosi masculine ideal, would always be "worth more" than her. Cersei's earliest recorded cruelty to Tyrion can, I think, be easily attributed to him being an easy target for Cersei's frustrations related to living in a patriarchal society.

I think Alyssa hates Vaegon for similar reasons: he gets more from society for being male despite falling far short of the traditional masculine ideal, he gets more agency and freedom than she does, and he gets more attention from Jaehaerys, which is something Alyssa craves.

The training yard incident is something I think could have easily happened in Cersei and Tyrion's past if Tywin had been a less strict parent. Cersei would have loved to dress in mail and beat up Tyrion if Tywin had ever tolerated his daughter acting in such an 'unnatural' and 'unwomanly' way, which we know he didn't. Jaehaerys was not as strict with Alyssa, but he was no more attentive to his daughter or more receptive to her needs than Tywin was. I think the training yard incident was Alyssa trying to get everyone's attention and say: "Look, Father, I'm a much better son to you than this weakling! Look, world, you should give me more privilege than you give him!" As usual, nobody listens to her. Like with Cersei and Tyrion, the little brother who will never conform to gendered expectations is still worth more than the older sister who can 'do it better' than them.

I also think Alyssa, as a rule, hates her sisters and blames them for her unhappiness. Daella and Gael get more of their mother's love, Saera gets more of their father's love, dead Daenerys is better loved by both parents. I think Alyssa hates Daenerys the most because she was the perfect daughter that Alyssa could never measure up to. Daenerys cast a long shadow over her six younger sisters, a shadow that only Saera was able to escape by running away.

I think Alyssa's declaration that she wants twenty sons and no daughters is very consistent with her hating virtually every woman in her life except her mother, and even there, I think she thought Alysanne weak and wanted to outdo her.

A brief thought about Maegelle: it is said that she was a "guiding star" to Daella, and from that, I speculate that young Maegelle realized that the best way to get attention from Alysanne was to take on the role of caregiver to Daella as Alysanne had, and so Maegelle's gentleness and selflessness might have evolved from a desire to obtain her mother's attention and praise. I think Alyssa hated Maegelle for dealing with their mother's lack of attention to them both by embracing Daella rather than rejecting her, as Alyssa had.

Third, I wondered if, since you speculated that Alyssa had a predisposition toward sex addiction that she passed down to Daemon, it was possible that Alysanne also had a predisposition toward sex addiction that she passed down to Alyssa. To me, Alysanne seems to have a lot of sex whenever something goes wrong in her life. Shortly after Alysanne's mother dies, Aemon is born. Shortly after Alysanne's niece Aerea dies, Baelon is born. Shortly after her daughter Daenerys dies (the worst thing to ever happen in Alysanne's life), Alyssa, Maegelle, Vaegon, and Daella are born in quick succession (those four children are born in an interval of less than 5 years). I think Alysanne used sex as a coping mechanism whenever she was unhappy, and maybe Alyssa and Daemon inherited that from her.

Overall, I liked your post because I thought it had some excellent ideas, and because it was one of the few that challenged the ideas the fandom has around Jaehaerys and Alysanne: that Jaehaerys was the only bad parent of the two of them and that Alysanne was a good mother to all her children except Viserra. I think that Alysanne was an excellent mother to Daenerys, an overattentive (I would say codependent) mother to Daella and Gael, and an inattentive mother to Alyssa, Maegelle, Saera, and Viserra.

Thank you! You made many excellent observations!

Daenaerys' death was indeed a key moment for Jaehaerys and Alysanne and affected them as parents in extremely negative way. She wasn't the first child they lost, they had Aegon before her, but he was born too early and died after 3 days. It's interesting that Alysanne coped with it by shifting the blame for that loss on the people who attacked her in Maidenpool even though she wasn't harmed there and went into labour way after returning to Kings Landing.

The gods give grief as well as joy. Long before her mother was brought to term, Queen Alysanne was also delivered of a son, a boy she named Aegon, to honor both the Conqueror and her lost and much lamented brother, the uncrowned prince. All the realm gave thanks, and no one more so than Jaehaerys. But the young prince had come too early. Small and frail, he died three days after birth. So bereft was Queen Alysanne that the maesters feared for her life as well. Forever after, she blamed her son’s death on the women who attacked her at Maidenpool. Had she been allowed to bathe in the healing waters of Jonquil’s Pool, she would say, Prince Aegon would have lived.

I think Daella was named after Daenaerys. Perhaps they shared some physical similarity or Daella reminded Alysanne in some way of her lost beloved daughter. I absolutely agree that Alysanne was using Daella as her "redemption" as a mother after losing Daenaerys. On the other hand, Jaehaerys could have seen a shadow of Daenaerys in Saera (a bossy personality perhaps?) which made her his favourite.

Btw, I don't think Alysanne was a great parent even to Daenaerys. She doted on her as her first living child after Aegon but she didn't fight for her rights. For example, after Aemon was born:

That night, at Alysanne’s suggestion, he placed a dragon’s egg in the prince’s cradle.

Why Alysanne didn't insist for an egg for Daenaerys? Earlier, when she talked to Aerea, it's mentioned that Daenaerys was meant to be the next Queen and Alysanne reminisced about receiving a dragon egg from Rhaena. If it was such a fond memory for her, why didn't she grant her own beloved daughter an egg? Or maybe Alysanne's plan was for Daenaerys to claim an adult dragon and have an advantage over her future brotherhusband who was given a cradle egg? Well, it seems like a very half-baked plan with too many issues and uncertainties. After all Aemon's egg didn't hatch and later he claimed a young Caraxes. If Daenaerys had an egg and it hatched it would have guaranteed her position in life and gave her a measure of her own power.

I agree that Alyssa probably hated Daenaerys for being a perfect daughter in their parents' eyes. It's pretty sad because Daenaerys wanted a younger sister so much and would have loved Alyssa and given her all the attention.

The coping mechanisms of Jaehaerys and Alysanne - my interpretation

The theory about Alysanne's possible sex addiction is interesting, but in this case I have a different explanation because Alysanne was just a different person than Alyssa and her behaviour doesn't follow the pattern we see in other sex addicts in the series. She doesn't act promiscuous. Same with Jaehaerys.

Undoubtedly, Alyssa was conceived soon after Daenaerys' death as she was born in the end of the same year. But we can't discount Jaehaerys' participation in all the childmaking that kept going on for years after it stopped being necessary. Jaehaerys comes off as a textbook abusive Westerosi husband that keeps impregnating his wife even when she's too old and it endangers her life (like Rogar Baratheon who did the same to J+A's mother, Alyssa Velaryon). Here's some textual evidence after baby Valerion's death in 78 AC:

“I am forty-two years old,” she told the king. “You must be content with the children I have given you. I am more suited to be a grandmother than a mother now, I fear.” King Jaehaerys did not share her certainty. “Our mother, Queen Alyssa, was forty-six when she gave birth to Jocelyn,” he pointed out to Grand Maester Elysar. “The gods may not be done with us.” He was not wrong. The very next year, the Grand Maester informed Queen Alysanne that she was once more with child, to her surprise and dismay. Princess Gael was born in 80 AC, when the queen was forty-four.

Jaehaerys was clearly the one who wanted more children regardless of the risk to Alysanne's life (after she had two very difficult labours with Gaemon and Valerion who both died). If Alysanne wanted to keep having children before this point, this is when she realized that she was done. But Jaehaerys pushed her to have Gael after that.

And we shouldn't forget the reports of J/A sex life on Dragonstone when they married (Alysanne was 13) - Jaehaerys (15) was having non-penetrative sex with her and it looked like he was teaching her to be his submissive sex doll (a "good wife" by Westerosi standards). We don't know if he touched her even before they eloped. It's said they were Visenya's wards and after she died, they escaped to an unknown location and stayed hidden until their return to King's Landing. Their mother was with them, so probably nothing sexual happened between them. Though they both believed in Targaryen incest and that must have been instilled in them early. They had their older siblings' marriage as a recent example to follow.

I think the key part of Jaehaerys' reign is his rebellion against Maegor and everything he stood for. So Jaehaerys and Alysanne followed the Faith of the Seven and made peace with it, exerting some control over it and adding the Doctrine of Exceptionalism to allow Targaryen incest. Another thing that differentiates Jaehaerys from Maegor is his recorded faithfulness to his one lawful wife (if he had any affairs, there's just no trace of it, not even any rumours) and his fertility. Having many healthy children, especially sons, makes Jaehaerys "win" against Maegor. He's a better king, because he's fertile and he proves that by getting his wife pregnant over and over again. I think it was important to Jaehaerys because he had some physical resemblance to Maegor (especially when he was angry). Imagine him getting older and looking more and more like his hated uncle every time he looks in the mirror. So he affirms he's not turning into Maegor by proving his fertility and getting Alysanne pregnant again.

The Faith of the Seven had an even greater impact on Alysanne. She appears to be truly pious and believe in that religion. One of people who influenced her and Jaehaerys in their early childhood was Septon Oswyck:

"the sept on Dragonstone was tended by an old man named Oswyck, who had known Jaehaerys and Alysanne since their births, and instructed them in the mysteries of the Seven throughout their childhood"

He also officiated their marriage. And of course Septon Barth was another great influence on the royal couple as the Hand of the King for most of Jaehaerys' reign.

This is what Alysanne said as a newlywed on Dragonstone:

Neither prayer, sermons, nor readings from The Seven-Pointed Star could shake Alysanne Targaryen’s conviction that the gods had meant her to marry her brother Jaehaerys, to be his confidant and helpmate and the mother of his children. “He will be a great king,” she told Septa Ysabel, Lady Lucinda, and the others, “and I will be a great queen.”

Alysanne seems like a woman who truly thinks her worth as a person and queen depends on her motherhood and fertility - the number of children she has. In her life she knew three other queens - Visenya, Alyssa and Rhaena. Visenya - unsuccessful, she only had one son and her line ended with him. Alyssa - successful, 8 children, one became the king, but she died in childbirth after being forced into a dangerous pregnancy at an older age. Rhaena - unsuccessful - two daughters, both lost to her, usurped, died alone and forgotten. So we can see that despite Alyssa's tragic fate (and Jaehaerys letting her die instead of trying to save her life), Alysanne chose to emulate her and accept the dangers of more pregnancies in order to be a successful queen. It's like she kept having children to stay relevant as queen to Jaehaerys who also sought validation of his self-image by proving his fertility. And Alysanne clearly passed on the mindset that "children = power and husband's love" to her daughter Alyssa who was ready to give Baelon 20 sons.

Sex could be a coping mechanism for Alysanne when things go bad, but this doesn't mean she had to get pregnant. No one who just likes sex would have 4 kids in 5 years when there's moon tea available and no real need for more offspring (there was an heir and a spare). Alyssa was definitely using birth control as I argued in my post about her. Alyssa loved sex for pleasure and children were the more or less wanted side effect of it. I don't think Alysanne was getting pregnant just because she loved sex so much, instead she was following her religion and fulfilling different psychological needs here. I think her coping mechanism was "having a new child" to confirm her fertility and worth as a woman/queen/mother, and sex was just means to an end.

Alysanne could have been so religious that she thought that contraceptives are a sin, but there's just no evidence of that, otherwise Alyssa would have been raised with that belief and without access to moon tea and that just didn't happen. Alysanne wasn't pushing any of her daughters to have a child every year. She was more pragmatic than that.

It's interesting that Alysanne kept having children even after her favorite Daella was born and she had that "emotional crutch". It leads to the conclusion that having more children was a goal and another crutch.

Alysanne had a coping mechanism, but what exactly were the "bad things" she was coping with by getting pregnant? I looked into the timeline and noticed there is a very distinctive pattern to the events before each pregnancy. Alysanne was coping with deaths in her family.

First Aegon dies in 52 AC, Daenaerys is born in 53 AC. Of course, J+A had to secure the line of succession, but it's clear that Daenaerys, a living child, had a healing effect on Alysanne.

Next, Aemon is born in 55 AC. It's important to note that Alyssa Velaryon died in 54 AC, so Alysanne experienced a traumatic loss of her mother. Of course, it could be that she was already pregnant when Alyssa died, because Jaehaerys still needed a male heir. Grief or no grief, they had to have a son regardless.

It's pretty interesting that their new son was named Aemon, one letter away from Aegon. This is going to be more of a headcanon here, but it reminds of that one historical TV series (based on real history) in which a prince died of sickness in early childhood and the queen had a new son who she gave the same name as the dead one because she thought he returned to her (like a rebirth in a new body). My hc is that Alysanne thought Aegon returned as Aemon but GRRM changed one letter in a name to avoid too much chaos in the family tree (and I guess he had specific narrative purposes for all his Aegons). But I think naming Aemon as Aegon could have been realistic if people did that in real history. Especially since the older Aegon lived only 3 days, reusing the name would make sense for dynastic purposes.

The pattern of death causing Alysanne to have a new child is also seen with Baelon's birth in 57 AC. Yes, Jaehaerys needed a spare, but also their niece Aerea died horrifically in 56 AC and Alysanne was grieving her.

Anyway, the same headcanon as with Aemon works with Daella who, as I already mentioned, was likely named after Daenaerys. It really seems that Alysanne had a child after child in quick succession - Alyssa, Maegelle, Vaegon and Daella - until she got one that was like her dead daughter. And then she stopped having children for a longer time. Daella was born in 64 AC and Saera in 67 AC. No one died, so the usual pattern doesn't exist here. But there is an explanation.

Saera must have been conceived when Daella was around 2 years old. Around that time it became noticeable that Daella was developing slower than other children, that she wasn't as healthy and perfect as a Targaryen should be (according to the Doctrine of Exceptionalism). Jaehaerys realized that he made a deficient child and his fear of becoming like Maegor (who had deformed children) was triggered, so he had to make a new child. A new perfectly healthy daughter, Saera, was born, proving that there was nothing wrong with Jaehaerys. Probably that's also why she was his favourite.

Next few cases are also interesting as there's no death per se.

Viserra was born in 71 AC and no one died before that, however a significant event in 70 AC was the marriage of Aemon to Jocelyn Baratheon, Alysanne's younger sister. I'll return to this case later.

Gaemon's birth in 73 AC was preceded by Maegelle leaving to join the Faith.

“The Mother Above has been so good to me, to bless me with so many babes, all bright and beautiful,” Queen Alysanne declared in 73 AC, when it was announced that her daughter Maegelle would be joining the Faith as a novice. “It is only fitting that I give one back.” Princess Maegelle was ten years of age, and eager to take the vows. A quiet, studious girl, she was said to read from The Seven-Pointed Star every night before sleep. Hardly had one child departed the Red Keep than another arrived, however, for it appeared that the Mother Above was not yet done blessing Alysanne Targaryen. In 73 AC, she gave birth to her eleventh child, a son named Gaemon. [...] Prince Gaemon died a few days into the new year, not quite three moons old. As ever, the queen took the loss of a child hard, questioning whether or not it had been through some fault of her own that Prince Gaemon had failed. Septa Lyra, her confidant since her days on Dragonstone, assured her that she was not to blame. “The little prince is with the Mother Above now,” Lyra told her, “and she will care for him better than we could ever hope to, here in this world of strife and pain.”

Alysanne is talking like Maegelle joining the Faith is as good as her dying. It's similar to how Septa Lyra talks about Gaemon's death - he's with the Mother Above and Maegelle is given back to the Mother Above. Also, this way of thinking sounds just like when Rhaena talked in Oldtown with her daughter, Rhaella.

When Rhaena expressed regret that she had not been a better mother, the novice Rhaella embraced her and said, “I have had the best mother any child could wish for, the Mother Above, and you are to thank for her.”

Giving a child to the Faith is pretty much like cutting all familial ties by the parents. Now the gods are the child's parents and family. So Alysanne wasn't dramatic, it's just how it was and she lost her child. Maegelle stopped being her daughter and instead gained the Mother Above as a new mother. That fits the pattern of Alysanne grieving a death/loss and coping by having a new child - here Gaemon. Though I have to point out that there was another death in the family in 73 AC - Rhaena's.

Rhaena Targaryen died in 73 AC, at fifty years of age. After the death of her daughter Aerea, she never again visited King’s Landing or Dragonstone, nor played any part in the ruling of the realm, though she did fly to Oldtown once a year to visit with her remaining daughter, Rhaella, a septa at the Starry Sept.

There's no mention of Alysanne's reaction to her sister's death (only Jaehaerys arranging the funeral), but we can assume that she felt grief because they had once shared a strong sibling bond. And Alysanne is all-around sentimental. Rhaena's death combined with losing Maegelle to the Faith seems like enough reason for Alysanne to cope by having Gaemon. Though that also depends on whether Rhaena's death occurred in the beginning of the year, before Gaemon's conception.

Gaemon was born in October and he was a premature baby. It's possible that Alysanne knew the loss of Maegelle was coming so she started grieving her and got pregnant and the news of Rhaena's death caused Alysanne to go into a premature labour. That's only my speculation. The book mentions Rhaena's death after reporting about Gaemon's birth and death, so the third option is that Rhaena died after he was born which would explain why only Jaehaerys was mentioned to attend the funeral. Alysanne was recovering after nearly dying in childbirth.

Alysanne's labour was difficult and her life was in danger, so despite losing Gaemon soon she didn't try for a new child right away. Her next child was Valerion who was born in 77 AC, the same year as Viserys, Alyssa and Baelon's first son. They married in the end of 75 AC after Alyssa turned 15.

Prince Valerion was born in 77 AC, after another troubled labor that saw Alysanne confined to her bed for half a year. Like his brother Gaemon four years earlier, he was a small and sickly babe, and never thrived. Half a dozen wet nurses came and went to no avail. In 78 AC, Valerion died, a fortnight short of his first nameday. The queen took his passing with resignation.

I'd like now to return to Viserra's birth which seemingly breaks the pattern as there was no death before it or anything else to cause Alysanne grief. But I think it had similar circumstances to Valerion's birth. In Valerion's case, there was a preceding death of Gaemon, but it happened 4 years earlier and Alysanne had time to cope with her grief without immediately getting pregnant. Her resigned reaction to the loss of Valerion (she expected it) also makes me think this pregnancy wasn't motivated by her grief and desire to make a new child to replace a dead one.

In both Viserra and Valerion's case there was a preceding marriage in the previous year: Jocelyn and Aemon's wedding a year before Viserra's birth, Alyssa and Baelon's wedding before Valerion's birth. I think this could fit the pattern because Alysanne feared losing her younger sister, Jocelyn, or daughter Alyssa when they went into labour. This fear must have been especially vivid in Jocelyn's case because her own birth resulted in the death of their mother. So I think Alysanne was coping with the fear of loss in her usual way - by getting pregnant. (Or she just wanted to keep proving her youth and fertility when younger women started getting married, pregnant with heirs and due to that "threatening her position" - I know it's a bit irrational, but Alysanne wasn't the most rational thinker when it came to her role in life as a queen).

I think this fear of loss of her daughter in childbirth is proven by her reaction to Daella's message:

After a year and a half of marriage, a different sort of message arrived at the Red Keep by raven. It was very short, and written in Daella’s own uncertain hand. “I am with child,” it said. “Mother, please come. I am frightened.” Queen Alysanne was frightened too, once she read those words. She mounted Silverwing within days and flew swiftly to the Vale.

Yes, this could be Alysanne just being protective over Daella like usual. But Alysanne would be justified to feel similar about Jocelyn who she practically raised as a daughter rather than a sister and of course about Alyssa. Btw, Alyssa had Daemon in the year following Daella's wedding and I wonder if she was trying to regain her mother's attention with this pregnancy after her main rival, Daella, had gone to the Eyrie. It didn't seem to work, maybe because it was a second pregnancy and Alyssa was fine and experienced no complications with the first. She had a dragon, while both Jocelyn and Daella didn't. This could have made them look more likely to die in childbirth, in Alysanne's eyes. Nevertheless, as I said, Valerion's conception was probably caused by Alysanne's fear of Alyssa dying in her first labour.

After the loss of Valerion, Alysanne accepted that she shouldn't have more children, but Jaehaerys didn't agree with her and pushed her to have Gael in 80 AC. In the case of that last pregnancy, Alysanne's coping mechanism doesn't strictly apply. Though I have a little theory here:

Called “the Winter Child” for the season of her birth (and because the queen was in the winter of her childbearing years, some said), she was small, pale, and frail, but Grand Maester Elysar was determined that she would not suffer the fate of her brothers Gaemon and Valerian. Nor did she. Assisted by Septa Lyra, who watched over the babe night and day, Elysar nursed the princess through a difficult first year, until finally it seemed as if she might survive. When she reached her first nameday, still healthy if not strong, Queen Alysanne thanked the gods.

Grand Master Elysar was a key figure in the birth of Gael.

“Our mother, Queen Alyssa, was forty-six when she gave birth to Jocelyn,” he pointed out to Grand Maester Elysar. “The gods may not be done with us.”

I repeated the quote just to show that Jaehaerys didn't tell Alysanne to her face that he wants more children after she told him she was done when Valerion died. Instead, he told that to Elysar and Alysanne was surprised and dismayed when she discovered a new pregnancy. That leads me to think that Alysanne took moon tea to prevent that and who was brewing it for her? Grand Maester Elysar, as it was his duty. But if the king privately ordered him to ensure that one last pregnancy and the survival of the child, then he would have to brew the moon tea incorrectly or give Alysanne some other tea with similar taste but no contraceptive effects.

No matter what we analyze about Alysanne's coping mechanism and desire for children, this proves that in the end Jaehaerys controlled her pregnancies. Whether she wanted them or not, it was irrelevant to him.

After Valerion's death Alysanne gave up on having more children, so perhaps sex with Jaehaerys was the remaining way for her to cope with loss. Or not. Alysanne was very involved with finding a husband for Daella who got married to Rodrik Arryn in 80 AC, so taking care of Daella was still an important emotional crutch for Alysanne. And after Daella's death and later losses the queen clung to her remaining living children (mostly Gael and Maegelle) to cope with her grief. It's all well-described in the book.

I think in Gael's case it's the most visible that Jaehaerys is the main force behind the new pregnancy for his own reasons. Perhaps it was a matter of pride and his own self-worth as a king, he didn't want to be remembered as the guy whose last two children - sons - were so weak that they died in cradle, so he pushed for one last child whose survival would prove his - vitality? might? competence? as a man and king.

Vaegon just went to the Citadel a year before Gael's birth and Aemon had only one daughter, Rhaenys and no more children for six years, so clearly Jocelyn couldn't have more. Baelon had sons, but was uninterested in statecraft based on his comment to Aemon how he preferred making children over making laws. I get the feeling that Jaehaerys could have been a tad frustrated with his sons (it's pure speculation though) and this might have caused him to try for more children.

In any case, I think Jaehaerys was the driving force wanting children, especially male, and exerted his control over Alysanne in order to procreate to fulfill his dynastic needs and maintain his own self-image as a great king. Alysanne using the pregnancies to prove her suitability as a queen, as a coping mechanism for her grief or fear of loss and possibly as a way to "rebirth" the lost children made her willing to go along with Jaehaerys' will. But she didn't make any real decisions about her own body. She was taught by Faith and Jaehaerys to be an obedient wife whose purpose in life is to give her husband healthy children and she was just very, very lucky that she survived all her pregnancies. And when she finally tried to refuse Jaehaerys, he tricked her into another pregnancy with the help of his accomplice, Grand Maester Elysar.

I hope this is coherent enough, I kind of was rambling, but this topic really got me going. Thanks again for sending the ask :)

whateverthought

What's your take on people who buy into "Targaryen exceptionalism" and consider Targaryen incest ships less problematic than others?

I'm not very good at articulating myself but I shall do my best!

I understand how easy it can be to fall into it, they're pretty and they have dragons and they have prophetic dreams and dragons and silver hair+purple eyes- a winning combo! But if you look at it, how the in world propaganda is so seeped into our view through the characters' eyes and thoughts and how if you look at real-world ideas that are being reflected back at us, its kinda gross.

Its White Superiority wrapped in Medieval Fantasy, and unfortunately, it falls into the trap of attempting to symbolize bigotry in fantasy settings. There's a post about how its almost impossible to paste real-world racism onto fantasy races because it falls into itself like a stack of cards. It mentions Orcs and Elves and how you can't make a 1 to 1 because you do fall into the mindset. I'm not explaining it right but it doesn't work, because GrrM DID make the Targaryens special. Not as special and with a lot of problems fans don't want to see but still. There ARE moments and points where we are supposed to question the Superiority that's shoved down our throats.

Such as Nettles. Everyone wants to say she HAS to have some dragonblood in her because only Dragonlords can ride dragons but I have to question it. Realistically, how could any non-Targaryen have ever tried? The only time they get the chance is when Rhaenyra calls people to try and claim the Wild Dragons and surprise one does get claimed by a girl so far removed from the Targaryen bloodline it almost seems like a delusion to assume otherwise. But some do assume, because otherwise they have to admit they aren't that special. And we do see some Targaryens who never get dragons, Aemma/Vaegon/Saera/Viserra/Septa Rhaella. Sure, you could argue the women weren't allowed, but what about Vaegon? And what about the 'Dragons Call to their Riders' thing that I don't think I've ever seen in canon?

daisypreaker

ik you said baelon and viserra is a crack ship of yours so i was wondering what you think his reason/thought process was for refusing to marry her

viserra never really had time to develop past the age of fifteen, and i don't think vanity was all that there was to her. alysanne seems to have a real issue with any of her daughters that exhibits a strong will and/or wants her status. saera having jaehaerys wrapped around her finger - for a time - and viserra wanting to become 'queen' are both threats to two positions she holds dear and she acts accordingly. i think she adored alyssa because alyssa looked like her, and was single-mindedly devoted to baelon, hence her 'wildness' was forgiven because she emulated alysanne in a way her mother would like. what i glean from the canon is that baelon was her favourite son, and now there's this daughter who's brazenly saying she wants to be queen whilst her mother, the queen, is still alive. viserra doesn't have the sense to realise the faux pas. alysanne loves her, but dislikes her immensely. the way she speaks of her 'ways' to jaehaerys is so scathing. why are you taking your fifteen year old's frivolity to heart? you lost daella to a widower who already had four children. so now you're sending viserra to lord manderly who has four dead wives. that was a murder attempt on alysanne's part, at least to me. viserra's death is on both her parents' head tbh. she went out for a night on the town, probably hoping to have fun like saera did before she was locked up forever. imagine saera hearing of what happened through letters afterwards, knowing viserra was emulating her. they didn't get on but her little sister was trying to be like her in her final moments.

as for baelon refusing to marry her...well, she's fifteen, self-absorbed and shallow. she might grow out of it, but he certainly didn't want her right then. and alysanne's whispering wouldn't help because she for sure had words with baelon privately to tell him of all the ways viserra falls short of what he deserves.

edit: little addition, but reading between the lines, viserra getting hammered before she struck up the courage to go to baelon says everything. she isn't who she was presenting herself to be and her mother failed to see the scared little girl under it. she was screaming for help and everyone treated her with disdain for it because she was pretty and she knew it and god forbid, treated it as her defining feature because everyone else reduced her to it.

blue-mint-winter

About Alyssa Targaryen

Alyssa Targaryen, daughter of Jaehaerys and Alysanne and mother of king Viserys I and Daemon the Rogue Prince, is a character recently talked about due to her brief appearance in the TV show. The fan opinions about her seem strangely very positive. She's seen as a cool character and a good mother to her sons, because she took them dragonriding soon after giving birth. In relation to her younger sisters Alyssa is also seen as the better one or lucky for having a happy marriage with her brother and avoiding a more tragic fate. Certainly she's regarded as the most successful among the daughters of Alysanne because her descendants continued the dynasty. I've seen opinions that Jaehaerys and Alysanne only failed as parents to their younger children (from Daella and younger), who caused many problems, but they raised the older ones - Aemon, Baelon, Alyssa, Maegelle and Vaegon - to become good and decent people. There are also voices that she's just another dead mother, her character is uninteresting/unimportant compared to other sisters and she only exists in the story to have sex and birth future main characters.

After I read about Alyssa in Fire and Blood I found that all of the above opinions feel distinctly off the mark, especially in regards to her good character. Alyssa came off to me as rather unpleasant, mean and obssessed with sex, however the in-universe book's author, maester Gyldayn, doesn't portray any of her bad qualities as bad or undesirable in a princess, while at the same time he's very critical of her sisters' displaying similar faults.

Instead Gyldayn's portrayal of Alyssa focuses on showing her as a good sisterwife to Baelon and mother to Viserys and Daemon. That's what maester Gyldayn and Jaehaerys' propaganda want the readers to think about Alyssa while at the same time telling them that she was the most unfeminine woman she could be. That creates a powerful dissonance while reading about her as compared to others.

This post will be an analysis of Alyssa, her role in the family built on incest and how it affected her and her siblings, her relationships with focus on Baelon and Vaegon, her behaviour and causes of it, her effect on her siblings before and after her death. There will be some extrapolation and theorizing, but I hope it's within reason and will make a coherent argument that Alyssa wasn't like what Gyldayn presents her or what many fans think she was. So buckle up, this will be a long one.

Alyssa's role in the family

Alyssa is the second daughter, but she was born after Daenerys died (in the end of the same year, 60 AC), so functionally she's the eldest daughter, but the shadow of Daenerys hangs over her. Alyssa was her replacement in her mother's eyes until Alysanne realized when Alyssa was 6 years old that she didn't take after Daenerys, but Baelon. From a young age Alyssa preferred boy activities and didn't want to spend time with other girls.

The princess did not act like a girl, however. She wore boy’s clothes when she could, shunned the company of other girls, preferred riding and climbing and dueling with wooden swords to sewing and reading and singing, and refused to eat porridge.

One fundamental, glaring difference between young Daenerys and Alyssa was exactly the type of sibling dynamic they had with Aemon and Baelon. Daenerys was their older sister, a little queen and she was bossing them around.

The young princes loved their sister to distraction, it was plain to see, and Daenerys delighted in the boys, “especially in telling them what to do.”

Alyssa was the younger sister who was seeking her big brother's attention. She trailed after Baelon and, as it turns out later, she never really stopped.

Just as Baelon had once followed Aemon everywhere, Alyssa trailed after Baelon. “Like a puppy,” the Spring Prince complained. Baelon was two years younger than Aemon, Alyssa nearly four years younger than him…“and a girl,” which made it far worse in his eyes.

At this point in their lives she was just an annoying younger sister to Baelon.

Daenerys was a leader of her brothers, Alyssa - their follower. Even in the role of the older sister Alyssa was nothing like Daenerys. She wasn't a leader to her own younger siblings, instead she spurned them and stayed distant from them. It's also mentioned 3 times in the book that Daenerys told her pregnant mother that she wanted a younger sister. Alyssa reacted in an opposite way to Deanerys - she didn't want anything to do with her younger sister Maegelle and refused her company.

A gentle, selfless, and sweet-natured girl, and exceedingly bright, she soon attached herself to her sister Alyssa in much the same way that Prince Baelon had attached himself to Prince Aemon, though not entirely as happily. Now it was Alyssa’s turn to bristle at having “the baby” clinging to her skirts. She evaded her as best she could, and Baelon laughed at her fury.

Alyssa's shunning of other girls and having interest in boys' activities sets her apart from her sister. Maybe it was a result of young Alyssa wanting to be different in her mother's eyes than the dead sister she never knew. Probably she just wanted to spend time playing with her brothers so she emulated them. Also, she could have noticed their close bond to their father and tried to earn his love and approval by being like them. It is noticeable that, after losing Daenerys, Jaehaerys was less involved with raising his new children.

On the surface level, it's assumed that Alyssa is just another Arya-type, but I think she has a lot more in common with Cersei in her characteristics and relationships, even though her physical description (mismatched eyes - violet and green, crooked nose after an injury) is reminiscent of Tyrion. Perhaps Alyssa's description is meant to highlight that she's Lannister-coded.

Does the parallel between Alyssa and Cersei foreshadow a similar contrast between Cersei and Daenerys Stormborn in the future books? Perhaps Daenerys will be bossing around both Jaime and Tyrion like her namesake did with Aemon and Baelon.

Alysanne and Jaehaerys announced the betrothals of their older children in 68 AC. That's when it was decided that Alyssa will not take Daenerys' place as Aemon's wife. Instead, Alysanne planned to recreate her own relationship with Jaehaerys by deciding to marry their second son to second/eldest living daughter.

“Alyssa is for Baelon,” she declared. “She has been following him around since she could walk. They are as close as you and I were at their age.”

So a 7 year old Alyssa is told by her mother that she will marry Baelon, her favourite brother, that she's meant for him. That sounds similar to Cersei's belief how she was one with Jaime, that they belonged to each other. Cersei also switched with Jaime, pretending to be him to go to swordplay lessons. Only difference is that Alyssa was encouraged to pursue a romantic relationship with her brother, while Cersei was separated from Jaime and had to keep the affair secret. Alyssa was raised to be her brother's sisterwife and giving him children was the only expectation placed on her by her parents.

Who is Renée Dwyer ?

Who is Renée Dwyer ? Bella seems to have a pretty positive opinion of her. She's slightly condescending, and a bit insecure, but overall Bella seems to really love her. However, let's be honest here, Bella is a terrible judge of character, so I wanted to explore her a little.

Most people seem to have one of two views of Renee

A well meaning woman who got pregnant too soon but did her best. Things weren't perfect, but she tried to encourage Bella to try new things.

After all, she seems to really care about Bella. She's frantic when she goes to see her in the hospital in Twilight, they seem to have a good relationship... In fact, Bella doesn't seem to resent her in the least.

She signs up Bella for ballet, and accepts that Bella doesn't like it and lets her drop it, which suggests she respects Bella's opinion.

2. A neglectful woman who shouldn't have gotten custody, emotionally abusive and narcissistic

Why would I think that ? Bella cooks too well for a seventeen year old and seems to have been responsible for paying the bills for a while.

Most egregiously, Bella knows the last words her mom told her dad before leaving. Why, in God's name does she know that ? It screams enmeshment and parentification on Renée's part.

Where do you stand ?

#renee dwyer #bella swan #anti renee dwyer #anti bella swan #twilight meta #the twilight saga #twilight renaissance

Harry Potter and the Protection Racket

In my last post I explained how vulnerable the Wizarding world was to powerful wizard.

TLDR: the existence of wizards powerful enough to be unstoppable stops the ministry from being effective.

This has many consequences, the biggest being that wizards will align themselves with wizards in patronage systems that mimic those of ancient Rome, centered around said wizards.

What do I mean by that ?

Well, in Ancient Rome, rich men cultivated a network of people who would be dependent on them. Said rich man (like, say, Julius Ceasar), would pay for legal representation if their clients were in trouble (cough Harry couch), would arrange for loans/gifts (Lucius with the brooms, Dumbledore with Mundungus), would give support if someone under their protection wanted to run for office or get n important position (see Fudge and Umbridge), or a myriad of other things.

In exchange, those clients would go to war for their leader (see Dumbledore and the order and Voldemort and the death eaters), or support him in his political career (I'll let you make your own conclusions).

During the time of the series, we have three patronage systems: Dumbledore's, Fudge's and Lucius' (who took over Voldemort's patrons), and I'll probably write metas expanding on them.

#harry potter #harry potter meta #voldemort #tom riddle #albus dumbledore #cornelius fudge #wizarding world #first wizarding war #second wizarding war

Harry Potter and the Violence Monopoly

A popular philosophy idea is that to be the State, an entity must have the monopoly on violence. An easy example is that in most medieval societies, those who ruled were those who trained to fight (and not, say, the third estate who composed the majority of the world).

In our (muggle) history, this means that whoever can convince the most competent people to fight for them will be on top. The President of the USA is the president because the army and the police follow him and believes he is. Furthermore, there are enough branches of armed forces that one general can't just decide to instigate a coup.

In the Harry Potter universe, this fact is why the wizarding world will probably always be very corrupt.

Every few decades, someone is born that is so powerful that they can just take the power for themselves. Their power differential is so great that it doesn't matter if the whole ministry, (theoretically elected?) by the people is against them.

In book 5, Dumbledore is set to be arrested by the government as he's accused of building an army in his name in Hogwarts (something I have a hard time believing he had no idea about, and is therefore guilty of, at least indirectly). However, he's Dumbledore and he doesn't want to go to Azkaban. He run away and is never caught.

In book 7, Voldemort basically goes in the ministry, says "Mine.", and no one can do anything about it.

They are so powerful, laws need not apply to them, and that shows cracks in the ministry.

In a world where people so powerful they can't be arrested by the State can be born, the state will always be vulnerable. Fudge understood that reality, and frankly, had reasons to be worried about the DA.

#Harry Potter #Harry Potter meta #Dumbledore #Dumbledore's great ideas #Voldemort #Tom Riddle #Wizarding World #Cornelius fudge #Cornelius fudge was a little bit right

How do you guys think Nessie will end up ?

Exactly what it says on the tin.

She's born into a billionaire family, with no contact with people who struggle in their day to day lives besides the pack, who don't babysit her and she'll maybe see once every few months.

2. She almost only socializes with immortal beings openly dismissive of humans at best and cannibalistic at worst.

3. She has no companions her own age. This ties in with the next point, but that's a huge point. People learn to be kind and to share by playing games with other people. Not only that, but they need to be challenge, to negotiate fair rules and learn not to cheat. However,

4. Everyone she meets is completely devoted to her. Now, I have my doubts it's natural, but even if it is, she'll grow up never having learned boundaries, with everyone willing to do anything for her. She's not learning that people might have bodily autonomy either (it's fine for her to bite Jacob).

5. Her family have a serious lack of boundaries. Bella watches her dreams, Edward reads her mind, she can hear them have sex while she's in bed... Clearly she won't know what's right and wrong in society.

With the mixture of smothering from Jacob and low-key neglect from Bella and Edward (or at least severe lack of judgment for letting Jacob around her)...

She's such a recipe for an annoying bratty trust fund kid that I have a hard time thinking she'll end up as a nice person. What do you guys think ?

#twilight meta #anti twilight #renesmee cullen #anti renesmee cullen #twilight saga #twilight renaissance #twilight

How Smart Is Bella

Spoiler alert: smarter than most teenagers, but not that much.

Some people might laugh and say "of course she's dumb, she jumped off a cliff for a guy LOL". I'm not talking about that kind of smart. I'm talking about raw processing power (the difference between wisdom and intelligence in D&D, if you will).

After all, she's introduced as a clever girl in Twilight (see her essay which Mike doesn't understand, her grades in biology, even the attitudes of the characters towards her...)

So, what are the main things that make her seem smart ?

First of all, she has good grades. That the classic way to show your teenage character is smart. However, this can be pretty easily dismissed. In Twilight, Bella has good grades because she did the biology lab before. In New Moon, she's depressed and doing all she can do to take her mind off Edward, which translates to studying a lot and getting good grades. However, the fact that she studies so much to get those grades is a lot less impressive than if she got them while, say, having a social life or being part of a club. It is, to be fair, though, better than what most people could achieve.

But she gets accepted into Dartmouth ! Indeed, she gets accepted in an Ivy League school. However, having not sent her own application and never participated in any extracurricular or similar activity, I think it's pretty clear Edward is the one who got her in (probably with a bribe).

The second main reason is that she reads a lot of old books. It's her main character trait, actually. Be it Romeo and Juliet or Wuthering Heights, she read it. Is it actually a sign of intelligence, though ? After all, there's reading a book and there's understanding it's themes and points in it's social context. For example, Romeo and Juliet isn't (only) a romance, it's a tragedy. Not only is it a tragedy, but it's a critic of the blossoming role of love in marriage and a commentary on feuds and the impulsiveness of teenagers. Bella actually has some critical thinking, as her essay about misogyny is Shakespeare demonstrates (though we have no idea how good it was). We don't know how good her essay was (and if she chose the subject), but she did write it. However, that's the only hint we get, and Bella fails to actually demonstrate her understanding of Wuthering Heights when she compares herself to Cathy (we're both selfish she cries...). But she does understand Shakespeare, so kudos to her.

But she connects the dots about the Cullens, I hear you say ! That takes deductive reasoning ! Come on, I answer, she had no idea what he was until Jacob gave her the answer. That's more a proof of her ability to flirt than her brain.

All in all, though she's smarter than Mike Newton, Bella just isn't all that smart. She works hard and enjoys reading.

#twilight #anti twilight #twilight meta #twilight saga #edward cullen #bella swan

panlight

Worst Thing Possible?

“I’d already lived through the worst thing possible. In comparison to that, why should anything frighten me now? I should be able to look death in the face and laugh.” - Bella Swan, New Moon. To Bella, the “worst thing possible” is Edward leaving her and taking with him her dreams of forever. But it sort of got me thinking–do you think any other characters have also lived through their own personal “worst thing possible?” I think one could easily argue that the loss of a child is the “worst thing possible” to any mother, and Esme has experienced that. I think you could also say that to a pious, vampire-hunting son of a pastor like Carlisle, becoming a vampire himself was probably “the worst thing possible.” Death would have meant Heaven; vampirism would be seen (at least at first) as eternal damnation. Do you think anyone else has lived through their own personal “worst thing possible?” (Jacob and imprinting? Yes/no?) Do you think we can compare these circumstances (which is the ‘worst’ worst thing?) or is it an apples/oranges thing? Too personal to really compare?

magicianpanache

I always laugh when I see that quote because Bella sounds so eighteen it's hilarious.

In any case, it's also the case for Rosalie (loss of her future by the most terrible way possible, by a gang rape and murder), and absolutely for Jacob.

I won't get into Jasper, but if he joined in because he thought the South was right...

As for the worst... Well it's obviously subjective, up to a point, but we can easily imagine how some characters might believe some circumstances might be worst if they went through them.

Carlisle seems to have easily adapted to vampirism, so he's out, and I'm pretty sure if Bella got raped and murdered by, say, Edward or Jacob on her way home some day, she would find it worst than being dumped by Edward. Or if Renesmee died.

Honestly, I don't know if Jacob, Esme or Rosalie had it worst, and I think it depends on said person's values.

#rosalie deserves better #rosalie hale #twilight meta #twilight renaissance #jacob black

The Jasper Opportunity: The Present

Who is Jasper Hale ?

He's a vampire. He is a smart man that managed to survive decades of violent warfare that has a single digit survival rate. This means he is pragmatic, opportunistic, cynical and ready to do what needs to be done. Beyond that, he's protective of Alice (his salvation), and of his family. Those qualities are exemplified in the discussion about what to do with Bella Swan : he argues to kill her, and, if Edward can't do it, he will. Jasper is also defined by his depression, because of his gift of empathy.

Who is he to others ? He's a husband to Alice Cullen. He's a son to Carlisle and Esme. He's a brother to the others.

But what if we dig deeper than that ?

Alice

Pages and pages have already been written about Alice and Jasper. They love each other and are each other's salvation, blablabla. She's his favorite Cullen, and his favorite person. He knows how dangerous the vampire world is and is therefore extremely protective of her. They compliment each other, though I'm not sure they have a functional relationship. Alice needed a physical protector once she changed. She's a tiny girl with no fighting knowledge. Her gift guided her to a desperate veteran looking for a purpose in life and a way out of his depression, which she provides.

This is the entire basis of their relationship. However, I can't help but wonder what would happen if Alice saw them no longer together (would she give Jasper the courtesy of explaining the break up, or would he receive a break up text ?), and how Jasper would react. Would he leave the Cullens ? Fall off the wagon ?

Furthermore, by playing chess with Jasper (and Jasper being a willing participant), it's quite hard for them to develop an actual equal to equal relationship. This, coupled with the fact I don't think Alice quite understands the hell Jasper went through (she didn't see it and, frankly, doesn't seem to ponder about other people all that much), makes their relationship not as solid as it might seem at first glance.

Edward

They often go on hunting together. However, it's pretty clear they aren't as close as other siblings in the family. Edward spends the first chapter in Midnight Sun disgusted with Jasper and his "weakness" to human blood. He wonders why Jasper even bothers to try. Of course, Jasper knows what Edward feels, and might even feel the same thing about his weakness. However, it's clear their bond isn't that deep.

Carlisle

I very much doubt Jasper and Carlisle have a filial relationship. Mutual respect, sure, but not a father/son relationship. Why ?

Well, why would they ?

Well, for once, Jasper and Carlisle only have like 4 years between them in a physical sense. Furthermore, unlike Edward and Rosalie, Jasper was an independent adult when he was changed. He didn't need parental attention the same way they did.

This gives them a respectful relationship, but one that isn't particularly deep. We have no mention of them hanging out, going hunting together, or anything else (though, to be fair, I don't think Bella or Edward would notice). With Carlisle being a doctor and Jasper a student, they don't interact much.

Esme

Esme is a mystery, and who knows why that woman does anything. However, I have a hard time seeing her and Jasper sitting in the same room doing anything else than staring at walls.

Rosalie

We don't see them overly interact, but I suspect Rosalie must be one of his favorite Cullen. She offered to go kill Bella herself in MS, which shows a level of pragmatism and down-to-earth character that Jasper no doubt values.

Bella

They aren't very close. Sure, Jasper likes hanging out around her because of her happy juice, but it's not enough to have them be actually close. Beyond that, they have nothing in common. Bella is an introverted bookworm, while Jasper is a grizzled war veteran.

Emmett

Emmett seems to be the person with who he interacts the most if we don't consider Alice. We have many instances of them wrestling, competing or betting on various things. They openly bet on how many people Bella would kill. In fact, Emmett's carefree nature must be very appealing to Jasper's cynical personality. They seem to be best friends (or at least the first person the other goes to to have fun).

However, Emmett isn't really the kind of person to have a deep conversation with, the way philosophical and history major Jasper undoubtedly wants.

Renesmee

Jasper never had any interest in children, and he was absent for Nessie's childhood. Not only that, but Bella and Edward have Jacob, Rosalie, Esme, Alice and Charlie who would be happier to babysit her. Unless something major happens, they will be strangers living in the same house.

This shows Jasper to be a very lonely man.

#jasper hale #twilight meta #twilight #twilight renaissance #anti twilight #anti edward cullen #carlisle cullen

The Jasper Opportunity Part 1: The Past

Well, after quite an eventful start to the school year, looks like I'm back, and I'm going to be talking about Jasper Hale.

To do that, we must first of all start with a simple question.

Who is Jasper Hale ?

We have the basics, of course, we know when he was born, how he died, etc. In fact, his origin story is probably the most controversial of the Twilight fandom. I'll be the first to admit that I was... taken aback when I realized that the guy was fighting on the side of slavery (not being from the US, I didn't realize the implications of his fighting for the southern states when I read Twilight at 11 years old, but I got there eventually).

However, as I grow older, I realize now that Jasper's character quite compelling, and is, in fact, the kind of character that a world populated by immortal beings would be full of.

What do I mean by that ?

Well, people's values are informed by the society the grew up in. People don't magically become more, or less, racist. I can guarantee that a majority of the people who read this would have had the exact same attitude as Jasper had they been born in the same circumstances. Carlisle and Jasper are the two Cullens who don't have humans older than them still alive, which means that the two of them should feel the more alien.

This could've opened up an interesting reflexion about the changes in Jasper's view of the world. Does he feel guilty about his part in the civil war ? Or does he accept it in the same way one accepts that Genghis Khan murdered his way across the Eurasian continent ? Or is it a mere blip on his radar considering his considerable body count ?

What about Bella ? What benign belief does she hold that will be horrible in a hundred and fifty years ? Meat consumption ? Car ownership ?

Of course, Bella doesn't care or bother to think about it, but the question is still there.

Then, he fought in the Newborn Wars. That single handedly makes him the closest to an average vampire out of all the Cullens (Carlisle, as he was nomad for a long time, and Edward with his killing spree, come closer, but Carlisle never drank human blood and Edward wasn't gone for that long). When he explains his past, this is the closest we have to realizing the savage and depressing world of vampires.

Of course, SM wanted her steamy vampire romance, so we didn't get any of that.

But still, the character had potential.

#twilight meta #anti twilight #jasper hale #twilight renaissance #twilight saga

Edward Cullen’s Mad, Mad World

Part 2: The Change

Edward gets changed during the Spanish epidemic that kills his parents. This, coupled with the fact no human friend of his has ever been mentioned, means that most of the links to his human life have been severed.

During his first year as a vampire, he spends most of his time learning basic control. Interestingly, during a flashback, we learn that Edward immediately fell into the “son” role with Carlisle.

Considering Edward’s fragile relationship with his father, this isn’t the most surprising thing he could do, but it is quite strange considering Edward is 17, on the cusp of adulthood and ready to go to war, while Carlisle looks barely 23. While Edward and his father probably weren’t close, I find it slightly odd that Edward was willing to replace his father so easily.

In any case, Edward quickly adopts Carlisle as his father. It’s quite clear Edward has a profound devotion for the man, seeing him as everything that is good in the world. When Carlisle mentions vampires have covens, Edward reflects the word isn’t strong enough for what Edward and Carlisle are. I will only say this, but Edward’s opinion of Carlisle reads very much like a school boy crush. Considering the opinion about homosexuality at that time, it would not be farfetched for Edward to have interpreted his romantic love as filial love, especially since he had a distant relationship to his father.

A lot of things change in Edward's life, but some stay similar. Edward goes from rich kid to vampire, which informs his opinion about wealth. Edward keeps his family's wealth, even after being changed, after all.

It’s also important to mention that Edward is thrust into a world where he is no longer a protector of maidens, but a dangerous monster, one slip away from murdering innocents. Yet, despite his doubts, Edward tries to embody virtue, until he can’t.

A few years later, Esme was changed. It’s worth noting that Esme is born barely six years before him and is barely nine years older than him physically. Edward still adopts her as his mother figure because she’s everything a mother should be. She’s kind, feminine, nurturing and beautiful...

We don’t know if Edward started calling her his mother before or after Esme and Carlisle got together, but I’m inclined to think Edward got them together because he felt like they were his parental figures in the first place.

In any case, Edward tells Carlisle that Esme loves him, so Carlisle marries her.

Despite this nurturing nuclear family, Edward will be tempted and will soon leave the comfort of his home.

Edward also remembers being profoundly disturbed by his transformation, especially his appearance. He cares deeply that he sparkles or that his hands are pale, but not as much as what makes him truly monstrous, like his bloodlust (though he does think about it). This is a recurring theme when he’ll talk to Bella.

The most damning change in his life, though, is his gift. He is now plagued with every inane, odd, private and disgusting thought people have. This clearly changed his ability to relate to other people, since he can here all their judgment (ugh, mom is sooooo annoying), shallowness (he's so handsome, I hope he'll notice me), and intrusive thoughts (I wonder how many people would die if I crashed this plane?).

What can we conclude ?

Edward already sees the people in his life as fairly replaceable. His parents, including his mother whom he loved and was very close to, are replaced within five years. His father is replaced within the year with a man Edward just met.

We also see Edward creating for himself a cocoon of which he is almost the center. I say almost, because the only thing Carlisle cares about more than him is the diet. Is it surprising he falls off the wagon a few years later ?

His self image also drastically changes, along with his image of other people. He is no longer a young man ready to protect a fair maiden. He’s struggling against the monster, but has never killed anyone. He can also here every thoughts people have: he "learns" just how inane and superficial the world is.

#twilight meta #twilight renaissance #twilight #twilight saga #midnight sun #edward cullen #anti edward cullen #anti twilight #bella swan

Edward, Carlisle and Esme: The Cullen Ménage à Trois

I can't help finding it very convenient for Edward that by shacking up Esme and Carlisle, he gets to be the center of the world of the two people he cares most about.

Esme loves him more than anything, even maybe her husband, as any mother would, meaning she'll ultimately always be on his size.

Carlisle, though, is more independent. Sure, Edward has a special place as Carlisle’s first creation, but Carlisle has a job (doctor) and an identity outside of the coven (that weird monk). Edward, ever the clever bugger, ensures he’ll never leave by finding her a wife who will always be devoted first and foremost to him.

I find that hilarious.

#anti twilight #twilight #twilight saga #twilight renaissance #edward cullen #anti edward cullen #midnight sun #twilight meta #esme cullen #carlisle cullen

Edward Cullen’s Mad, Mad World

Part 1: The Origins

To understand Edward Cullen, it’s important to go back to his human life, which gives us a very interesting insight into his motivations and way of thinking.

First with the facts: Edward Cullen was born in Chicago in 1901 from a well off family, his father being a lawyer, and his mother taking care of him. In his adolescence, like many other teenagers his age, he dreams of going to war. He claims to have stayed for his mother, but he was only 17 (a minor) when the war ended. His dream ends when he catches the Spanish flu in 1918 and Carlisle changes him into a vampire while he’s on his dying bed.

This seems like little information, but it gives us a lot of information about what kind of person he would become.

While very close to his mother, he and his father are not. In fact, in Midnight Sun, while he mentions his mother a few times with fondness, he only spares a thought to his father when remembering he died of the influenza. The fact he jumps quickly to seeing Carlisle as a father (within the year of his transformation) is telling.

The fact he also mentions or thinks about exactly 0 friends or other family members suggests that Edward was also a lonely child, who, like Bella, took refuge in books. This explains his romanticism and why he took to the government’s wartime propaganda so well, despite being in America, a much more isolationist nation than those in Europe. We can deduce he read the newspaper and saw the adverts and short stories that were omnipresent, from the time he was 13 year old until he was 17, the years that really formed his way of thinking and his sexuality.

Those adverts often portrayed Britain and France as a maiden in need of defense, calling for the population (especially young men) to be part of the war effort. I believe this is the start of his separating people into three groups: protectors, predators and prey. Young Edward internalized those roles, and decided he must become a protector, and the best way to do that is, of course, to join the army to protect young women.

This propaganda also comes with a particular attitude toward women.

Contrary to what many people might guess, the attitude towards womanhood and marriage was not static across time, until the 20th century, after which feminism happened and we became the enlightened people we are today.

Without doing a whole dissertation about it, in the Victorian Era, women began to be seen as paragons of morality, as opposed to evil temptresses of earlier times. Marriages also started to shift from a strictly economic and social arrangement, to also include (gasp) love and respect. Passion and sexuality would follow in the late 1910s and twenties as something to include in a marriage, but were not yet a necessity. Edward grew up with the conflict of nature of women’s sexuality being disputed.

This brings us back to the propaganda Edward’s life must’ve been full of: America’s propaganda, in books just as much as adverts, often focused on women’s sexuality and moral purity.

This propaganda split women into two groups, being at the base of Edward’s madonna/whore complex. There are the moral women, virtuous and self-sacrificing in poverty while they wait for their man to come back, and the immoral shrews, selfish, ruined by wealth, materialism and often drunk (aka submitting to their base urges).

Remind you of anyone ?

Edward grew up high class in the city, where gender segregation had in great part broken down because of the influx of young people in the city in need of work, without their parent’s supervision. This means he would’ve mixed with the higher class “ruined by wealth”, just as much as the lower class “drunks”. As a teenager, he wouldn’t have found the complexity in their characters, assuming their desires or impulses were because they were “lesser” women. Of course, his mother is exempt from this judgment.

This is important because it means that Edward grew up in a time before women’s sexuality was not accepted as a natural part of things (an acceptance which really happened in the twenties).

What can we conclude ?

Human, he already lived in an imaginary world, surrounded by books (and his mother). He gets changed very young, young enough that his vision of people is still very one dimensional. This means that once he gets transformed, Edward already sees women through his madonna/whore prism, and offers himself up as their protector. His few friends and family are also probably dead, explaining why he latched on to Carlisle so hard.

Join me next time as I discuss Edward’s early days as a vampire.

#anti twilight #twilight #twilight renaissance #twilight saga #midnight sun #edward cullen #anti edward cullen #bella swan #twilight meta

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