Gabriel🧍‍♂️

18. Still figuring things out

[maxtrinity]

Also mad that these mfs are mad that a gay black man is smart with his money fuck everybody

[veryveryvomit]

So let's say all of the racism in the season is because it's lestats retelling, am I supposed to clap and cheer that louis is in a relationship with a man that interjects racial slurs into his dead daughters monologue?

[maxtrinity]

I think what makes TVL so confusing is why Lestat is mad at Louis for IWTV being published.

It’s not like Louis published the book. He just told Daniel—who Lestat gives no more than a few quips. Lestat can actively tolerate Daniel, but not Louis? I don’t know, man…

Then, there’s the bigger question: why is he mad about the story being aired in the first place? At the trial in season 2, he basically told everybody everything (albeit with bases in narratives by the Theatre de Vampires) for…content. He never really apologized for that, just for not saving Claudia. He never really apologized for dropping Louis out of the fucking sky. He never really apologized for cutting every support system Louis had—an abuse tactic—and turning him into a vampire. Why does Louis have to apologize to Lestat? For…telling his side of the story as an abuse victim?

Don’t get me wrong—Louis has some shit to apologize for. But Lestat’s not at all innocent, and I would argue he’s not the main person Louis needs to apologize to (it’s Claudia). He doesn’t deserve an apology from Louis for this book being published. He can have one if he wants it, but it shouldn’t be guaranteed.

I think what a lot of people miss about this whole series is that Louis isn’t a stereotypical unreliable narrator; I think most people hear that and they think “The voice of this story is a liar.” That’s just wrong, in this case; UNs aren’t necessarily lying to you, but they are blinded by their experience. They can’t offer a nuanced take on every single character. In other words: Lestat absolutely did all the things Louis said he did. Louis just had no idea about the motivation behind it, partly because Lestat, actually, lies a lot, but also because Louis can’t get into his head (the whole “As your maker, I can’t read your thoughts” thing).

I understand the whole season is supposed to be about Lestat being considered a failure for daring to love at all (took seven episodes to get it, but I don’t know if that’s my fault; the season was confusing), but that doesn’t mean he deserves an apology for the people he loved being hurt by his method of loving. It is toxic! He’s a toxic man! He wants to force people to love him, force them to want to be with him strongly enough that they will tolerate his love wrapped abuse, which should get the audience to think about abuse and love in different ways, not divide the fandom into Pro-Lestat vs Antiracist. Lestat loved Louis, but like season 1 and 2 always underlined, he never quite respected him.

We also have to consider, regarding the book, that Daniel is going off a perception of Louis that is different from who he was between 1910-1950. The Louis that Daniel got the “real story” from WAS passive and unfeeling, only having moments of emotion when Daniel triggered something. He was eerily collected—that’s the Louis that Lestat read in the book. TL;DR Lestat is upset with a Louis that isn’t real to how he knows Louis.

I think it should finally wrap down to this though: why are Lestat fans on Lestat’s side? I believe the point of the show should be the fact that you can’t pick a side with any character in the story—even Madeleine. But I see so many people ride so hard for Lestat, to the point of completely shitting on every character BUT him, and I rarely see reasons why. The most justification I’ve gotten is “He serves cunt and he’s camp” which…okay. Fine, whatever. You can like his aesthetic, that’s fine. But why are so many people unwilling to examine his choices and abuse, even going so far as to find reason within it, despite…everything? Because you like the way he looks? That’s textbook racism. That’s literally what makes the difference between two drug dealers of different races.

Anyway, to end this, I think Lestat has reasons to be mad, but I don’t think all of his anger should be directed toward Louis, especially not for this. I don’t think his anger means he has nothing to apologize for in his own right.

EDIT—Another thing: if this was about the book, wouldn’t Lestat talk more about his relationship with Louis? Because we didn’t know about much of anything else. Lestat was being nationally defamed by way of how good of a husband he was and he had very little to say about it. Hm.

[tourfilm]

living under a rock is so fun i love watching a movie that’s been famous for decades and being like wow this is so good.. did you guys know about this

[maxtrinity]

I don’t understand white writers’ hesitation/incapability to write POC characters. It pisses me off.

I consider it prejudiced, lazy writing because either 1) you think of POC in a toxic, specific way, or 2) you’re an asshole who can’t care to take their voices into account when they critique your writing. That’s it.

[letpeoplecritiquethings]

Also, re Claudia saying she lied about Lestat’s rape comments — if we take that to be true, what are the writers saying actually happened? Claudia got on the train, tried to leave, and….? What? Like genuinely, why did she come back?

Did Lestat show up and threaten her DIFFERENTLY? Or did he not show up on the train at all? Are they saying her Evil Scheming Black Girl Mastermind plan was in action from way back when she was asking Louis to leave with her, and her whole departure and return was just a series of manipulative theatrics to poison Louis against Lestat? And this was her goal not because she hated Lestat but because she actually (checks notes) apparently preferred him, but found Louis easier to manipulate…??

Like… even if all this retconning wasn’t rooted in antiblackness and misogynoir (which it is), it’s also just terrible/absurd writing like where’s the logic ???? 🫠

[sumquiasum]

There are some points of tvl criticism I'm willing to debate and where I can very much see both sides (or even think the #haters are stretching it a little) but like. You cannot really deny that this season has shown a pattern of prioritizing white characters and their emotional journey over characters of color. On top of that, so many of the jokes are "punching down", starting with the pronoun joke in ep 1 followed by a continuous barrage of throw-away comments. And then, six episodes into a season with a non-Black writers room, we have Claudia say "there's something etched in your ribs that says you're a slave". There's no reckoning with how horrifically racist this statement is, neither in the text nor the paratext. It's just sitting there, poisoning what otherwise could have been an incredible scene. Poisoning a season that felt like it was actually slowly finding its footing. It's white privilege to watch that scene and not feel, on some level, attacked by those racist words put in a Black actor's mouth by the writers. To not be haunted by the racist implications of "my bleak, black life." Before, a lot of the writing choices registered as thoughtless; at this point, it's hard to see them as anything but malicious.

[dykesynthezoid]

Camp is self aware but what season 3 is doing isn’t camp. If anything it’s become too self aware, too constantly aware of its audience to perform true camp. It hampers itself, second guesses itself, spotlights its own insecurities. It’s so self conscious, so concerned with the audience’s reaction— both in pleasing and disgusting them— that the performance cannot support its own scaffolding. It buckles under its own weight. The center doesn’t hold. When they write season 4 they need to be locked in a remote cabin with no internet and have their phones confiscated. It’s simply the only way forward after this

[maxtrinity]

I finally saw the final episode of TVL (finding a pirated video was a HOE) and I think it might’ve been my favorite episode of the season.

Claudia’s scene was by far the most memorable for me, but episode 7 was VERY good. I feel like I was struggling to understand everyone around Lestat but that episode really tied it together in the end, and I liked it.

The season still has its issues dialogue wise, but it was otherwise not bad I guess?

[nextchapter]

ohh i'm daniel molloy. i sold millions of copies of my best-selling novel. i'm a beast at bowling. i've got the french bengali smokeshow pinned against the wall. man fuck you

[vorreitenertiqui]

The camera zooming into Rolin laughing at this part specifically during the DM line read 👀 Which, apparently, is exactly Rolin's type of humor:

Throughout S1-3, to quote Snequanimity:

"Armand, we are constantly told, was a catamite. He's a twink bottom. He was a limp, passive ragdoll for sale. His daddy groomed him into a little bitch. He's emasculated, a beige pillow, his sexual performance is so-so, he's desperate and needy, he's a pussy and a betaboi. In short, he's too gay, not Lestat's ideal of a masculine bisexual man. like this is some kind of corruption of character, being the receptive partner in anal sex" 

Recently, ONE journalist has FINALLY commented on this

and that's because the journalist himself is a gay Indian man:

[maxtrinity]

Okay I deleted my last post because I was just complaining

I still don’t think Claudia’s read needed to include calling Louis nappy headed and a slave, especially if it’s not going to go anywhere as as Louis’ identity issues with his Blackness that have been prevalent since SEASON ONE, but I do think there is something I didn’t pay as much attention to when watching the episode a first time, and that’s Claudia’s hatred for Louis.

It actually makes a lot of sense. I’m ashamed to say I fell for Louis’ perspective even though that’s what the show warned the audience against—I feel for it. But, like, so did most people in universe so I don’t feel as bad.

I think with Louis’ watercolor version of Claudia, we miss a lot of her anger. We see her angry parts, but only when Louis’ annoyed by it, or hurt by it—he’s incredibly selfish that way. And the way Louis uses her image to conjure up a sympathy train from the entire world—I’d hate his ass, too.

Louis doesn’t like when women play outside of their roles FOR HIM. He paid women to make money for him and not complain; he paid Lily to listen HIS problems yet could never conjure up a memory of hers; he created a daughter out of a girl on her dying breath and refused to understand that she was a human being, not a doll. Even when he’s introduced to Madeleine, it really feels like he’s treating this 34 year old woman like a teenager with a crush.

And I think from Claudia’s perspective, she probably thought Louis hated her, too. Or at least didn’t love her enough to not choose his own epic romance stories over her TWICE. You know how some mothers with get into relationships with abusive men over and over again even when their children are clearly unhappy because they are looking to find “the right one”? That’s Louis and Claudia’s dynamic, and that’s why she hates him.

And she likes Lestat more because he never pretended to care about her. He was more real, more honest. He didn’t kid her or himself with the idea that he loved her like his daughter—he loved her like a fledgling. Like someone he could control. But he ultimately didn’t care if she stayed because he didn’t want her to stay like he wanted Louis to stay (why he made him). I think Claudia could find appreciation in his lack of a fuck about pretending.

Louis and Lestat were essentially playing good cop/bad cop in Claudia’s life, but she knew that she was in prison either way.

[maxtrinity]

Now to reiterate what I said in the first post, but with the knowledge that I have now.

What Claudia said to Louis still makes zero-sense for her character. At all. It’s still a crazy jump.

Even though the first portrayal of her was Louis’ version, we should also remember that there is still some reality to that version, warped as it may be.

I am Black, and I love being Black, but I hate being Black in white spaces. I know most Black people do also—in the 21 century. So you’re going to tell me that Claudia, a young Black woman in the early 20th century, who didn’t trust Lestat as far as she could throw him because he clearly saw himself as superior to her and Louis, had less than nothing to say when it was his turned to get flamed? Nothing about his racism? At all?

It makes sense that she hates Louis more because he perverted her memory, and she had to watch that. The man read diary pages she tore out to her rapist and then had the GALL to demand gratitude!

But she wasn’t a colorist. Claudia actually seemed to trust the characters of color more than she trusted any of the white characters. That’s…why she…joined the coven…Hm.

It’s also just the fact that Louis doesn’t have what’s typically considered “nappy hair”. In his day and today, he probably would get compliments for having “good hair”. He’s a light skin man with “good hair”—Spike Lee wrote a whole ass musical number about this which white woman pulled this out they ass? IT IS AN INSULT ROOTED IN ANTIBLACKNESS. WHY WOULD CLAUDIA “PRO-BLACK” EPARVIER SAY THATTTT

And then the slave comment makes no sense because Claudia TOLD LOUIS that Lestat did not view them on equal standing, that they were slaves, they were the help to the white man in the house. CLAUDIA said that! And I may be mistaken, as I often am, but was this not literally weaponized in the killing of Lestat? At least, that’s how I interpreted it. How can you expect the help to kill you successfully when you deem them to be idiots of their station?

So, Claudia hating Louis more than Lestat was an interesting premise that could be followed by great reasoning, BUT it was executed SHITLY because the newer, whiter writers forgot that Balck people can contain multitudes.

[maxtrinity]

Okay I deleted my last post because I was just complaining

I still don’t think Claudia’s read needed to include calling Louis nappy headed and a slave, especially if it’s not going to go anywhere as as Louis’ identity issues with his Blackness that have been prevalent since SEASON ONE, but I do think there is something I didn’t pay as much attention to when watching the episode a first time, and that’s Claudia’s hatred for Louis.

It actually makes a lot of sense. I’m ashamed to say I fell for Louis’ perspective even though that’s what the show warned the audience against—I fell for it.

I think with Louis’ watercolor version of Claudia, we miss a lot of her anger. We see her angry parts, but only when Louis’ annoyed by it, or hurt by it—he’s incredibly selfish that way. And the way Louis uses her image to conjure up a sympathy train from the entire world—I’d hate his ass, too.

Louis doesn’t like when women play outside of their roles FOR HIM. He paid women to make money for him and not complain; he paid Lily to listen to HIS problems yet could never conjure up a memory of hers; he created a daughter out of a girl on her dying breath and refused to understand that she was a human being, not a doll. Even when he’s introduced to Madeleine, it really feels like he’s treating this 34 year old woman like a teenager with a crush.

And I think from Claudia’s perspective, she probably thought Louis hated her, too. Or at least didn’t love her enough to not choose his own epic romance stories over her TWICE. You know how some mothers with get into relationships with abusive men over and over again even when their children are clearly unhappy because they are looking to find “the right one”? That’s Louis and Claudia’s dynamic, and that’s why she hates him.

And she “likes”—HEAVY emphasis on the quotes—Lestat more because he never pretended to care about her. He was an asshole from day one. He didn’t kid her or himself with the idea that he loved her like his daughter—he loved her like a fledgling. Like someone he could control. But he ultimately didn’t care if she stayed because he didn’t want her to stay like he wanted Louis to stay (why he made him). I think Claudia could find appreciation in his lack of a fuck about pretending.

Louis and Lestat were essentially playing good cop/bad cop in Claudia’s life, but she knew that she was in prison either way.

[maxtrinity]

I haven’t heard a Black person call another Black person’s hair nappy since 2018 scared the shit outta me

“Get this through your nappy ass head” or wtv Claudia said I nearly jumped out of my boots wtf

[koats-n-goats]

the misinterpretation of Crutchy as being a naive little innocent baby never ceases to piss me off I don't get how it's such a common misinterpretation. He's a kiss ass. (that sounds rude but I mean it affectionately) like do people seriously think he's nice to Weisel and The Delancey's and Snyder because he's pure of heart and unaware that they're mistreating him???? nooooooo noooo it's his survival mechanism. so many of the newsies resort to things like deceit/trickery, charm, and aggression to survive the horrible conditions they have to live and work under. Being disabled obviously limits most forms of physical aggression or intimidation that newsies like spot and back exhibit. which means he has to over-rely on the other two, charm and deceit. which we see both of in the movie. like we see him distract Snyder so Jack can get back on the roof, we hear that he messes with Snyders food, and so on. But there comes a point where the safest bet for him as a disabled person is that he has to suck up to the people with more power than him. why he's even trying to kiss up to the Delanceys when they're dragging him across the ground. He's not even like happy go lucky optimistic, his introduction itself is pretty cynical ",there's so many fake cr*** on the street, a real cr** ain't got a chance" . But so many fans don't acknowledge his deceit or his cynicism , all they focus on is his kiss ass behaviors which they the misinterpret as innocence.

Crutchy isn't blind to the horrors of being an exploited, disabled child (and likely an orphan or runaway) in poverty. He's simply adapted to those horrors in a different way than most, because he had to.

[maxtrinity]

My brother was watching a short of this kid who played football and he was BUILT (for a kid) and it scared the shit out of me

I don’t like muscled children. I don’t like children. Why would a kid need muscles? Stop giving your kids creatine.

Anyway it’s 1:30am and I was remembering this kid and a thought hit me: “That’s exactly what Robin looked when he was 10.”

Now I’m freaked out because it never really occurred to me that 10 year old Dick Grayson would be jacked

[maxtrinity]

White people pmo everyday don’t talk to me