I forgot where I got these pics from, pls contact me so I can give credit Audhd, ptsd and some kind of cluster b personality disorder I was too scared to ask my therapist to specify
(And a narc's perspective on the "Narcissistic Abuse Cycle")
Maintaining relationships, especially romantic or queerplatonic ones where closeness and emotional intimacy are expected of us, can be very difficult as a person with NPD. Lower empathy levels, unreasonable standards or entitlement, emotional impermanence, jealousy, relational dissociation and avoidance of vulnerability are among the aspects of NPD that can make being in relationships harder, but difficult doesn’t mean impossible, and people with NPD can achieve healthy, loving relationships if they desire them. As I am not currently in a relationship, I’m drawing from past experiences as well as the experiences other NPDers have shared with me.
I will also touch on some of the misinformation and stigma surrounding people with NPD in relationships.
Side note, if you or someone you're dating has NPD, here are some resources (not by me) that might be helpful to you:
[Advice for dating someone with NPD]
[Communicating intense/irrational emotions]
Now, let’s get into it!
Emotional intimacy with NPD is tough. Many of us have avoidant or anxious attachments, have experienced abuse and/or neglect, fear abandonment or rejection, and never learned how to have healthy connections with others. NPD itself is built upon a deep-rooted insecurity, self-hatred or lack of sense of self, and that impacts the way we relate to and interact with others as well. That does not mean that NPDers are going to be abusive in relationships. Dating with any serious mental health issues is always a challenge, but not inherently toxic.
What is it like to be in a relationship with NPD?
I asked some fellow NPDers about their experiences in relationships. Here are some things they shared with me:
“Comforting [others] is difficult with low empathy...I’m uncomfortable with strong emotions and even laugh when I or someone else is upset.”
"I really don't feel any empathy for partners & can't even pretend to care abt their feelings."
"Hyping up my gf is easier because she's equal to me, so I idolize her like I do myself."
“I struggle...bc I see vulnerability as below me. I also don’t think anyone is worthy.”
"I find it hard when my ideals are not agreed with...if you don't agree with me, that means I'm wrong and I'm never wrong. We have to talk it out if things like that happen but it's still difficult."
“I struggle with extreme jealousy when it comes to my partner doing pretty much anything without me, especially when it comes to other people...I rarely voice this though, mainly because I want to conserve their view of me.”
For many people with NPD, we want to control the image we project of ourselves. We may want to come across as perfect as possible to ensure we are liked and admired. Because flaws and weaknesses feel like reason to hate or reject us, we are more resistant to being vulnerable or admitting to any struggles we are facing internally or within the relationship. This greatly limits the ability to emotionally connect to and feel safe with a partner. In the past, my relationships haven't lasted very long due to this.
Splitting and black-and-white thinking can also be an issue in NPD. Of course, it is unrealistic to expect our partner to have no flaws, never get upset with us and agree with us on everything, but any friction, any disagreements, or imperfections my partner may have, can feel like evidence that they aren’t right for me and our relationship is never going to work. This is an example of black-and-white thinking that has been left unchallenged in the past: anything less than perfect isn’t good enough.
None of these issues are things that can’t be worked on or accommodated. With therapy, good communication with our partner, a support system, and simply practice, people with NPD can learn how to open up, seek reassurance, and trust their partner. Cognitive empathy can be learned, but empathy is not essential to be a supportive and compassionate partner.
This brings me to talk about “narc abuse”...
I have discussed before why narcissistic abuse is not a helpful or legitimate term for the abuse someone has experienced. “Narc abuse experts” often have a misconstrued or totally false concept of what a narcissist, i.e. person with NPD, is, and ascribe general toxic and abusive behaviours (lying, cheating, verbal abuse, financial abuse, gaslighting etc.) to NPD, even though none of these things are unique to any mental health condition, nor mentioned in any current or proposed diagnostic criteria for NPD.
There are many stigmatising beliefs about people with NPD. For example, that we cannot change, that we cannot love, that we won’t seek help, and that we seek out kind-hearted individuals to exploit and abuse for ‘supply’ (attention and validation).
I want to point out that our behaviour in NPD tends to be subconscious and emotionally driven. We’re reacting out of our emotional states, our egos and our trauma wounds. It is not typical of NPD to have a conscious desire to exploit and harm, nor to deliberately seek out and ensnare vulnerable individuals in order to abuse them.
Brains with NPD have neuroplasticity like all other brains, and NPDers absolutely can change, learn and grow. NPDers do seek help from within our community and from professionals all the time. Remission is real and possible. Healing is real and possible. Yes, it can be difficult with NPD to recognise or acknowledge mistakes or weaknesses, but that doesn’t make it impossible.
Love is an ambiguous term that means different things to different people. Whether a person with NPD feels they love in a typical way, in their own way, or not at all, is very personal and individual. It can be helpful to consider that love is not necessarily a feeling, but a choice: to choose a person, to have them in our lives, to care for them and let them care for us, regardless of whether or not we can feel connection, empathy, attraction, or anything else.
Some people use emotional impermanence in NPD as proof that people with NPD cannot love, which is ableist. Emotional permanence can be impaired in NPD as well as other neurodivergences, which can lead to a person requiring a lot of reassurance, insecurity, and having more easily fluctuating emotions. If an emotion is not being felt or shown in that specific moment, it can feel as though it never existed. For example, if someone is angry at us, we may believe they don’t love us because we cannot perceive the love they expressed in the past as permanent. It is not currently being expressed, and thus doesn’t seem to exist.
As a result, people with NPD can seem to lose or gain feelings for someone very quickly. We might seem to move on more easily after a break-up. This does not mean that love we expressed in the past was false or a lie. NPDers with impaired emotional permanence did not choose to have this trait and it does not undermine the validity of anything we do feel.
...and the "narcissistic abuse cycle"
The effects of emotional impermanence and avoidant attachment behaviours in NPD are not a “narcissistic abuse cycle.”
Abusive relationships absolutely can be (but aren’t always) cyclical. A perpetrator of domestic violence or abuse may follow a pattern of love-bombing, a phase of calm or growing tension, an incident of violence and abuse, followed by reconciliation, in a repeating cycle. I am not suggesting abuse cycles don't exist, because they definitely do. However abuse is not inherent to NPD, and is not the same as what I am describing below.
In my personal experience, relationships will start off being desirable and exciting, before something leads them to feel unsafe and uncomfortable. This could be being pressured to open up or a disagreement. The fear of being abandoned can be a motivator to put more effort in and be what my partner wants, only for the avoidant behaviours to creep back in again. This can lead to a “hot and cold”, “push and pull” dynamic.
Phases of enthusiasm for the relationship are not love-bombing, and phases of emotional distance are not meant as manipulation. Instead, it is often a constant internal battle between the desire for love and connection, and the fear of vulnerability and rejection, which can lead to inconsistent behaviours externally and within the relationship. The intent is not to control my partner; it is me trying to navigate the hurricane of conflicting feelings and needs as both a traumatised person and a human being who desires connection.
I do not think this dynamic is healthy or fair. I can only imagine how unsettling and distressing the periods of pulling away can be. But I don’t think it is necessarily always abusive, and it isn’t coersion or ill-intended.
With NPD, the constant need for validation can come at odds to the aversion to intimacy or vulnerability. We want to be loved and cared about, to have our emotional needs met, to be validated and enjoy the company of our partner, but it can also be exceedingly difficult to communicate any fears or doubts that may arise, and we might then find ourselves shutting down, defensive, distancing ourselves and sabotaging the relationship. When we realise what we’re doing, we might try to make amends, only for it to happen again further down the line. Recognising this cycle is the first step to breaking it.
Healthy love takes work
If one or more members of the relationship aren't willing to put the effort in, it may be better not to have that relationship. It's best to leave someone if they're unwilling to work with you, or if you know you aren't willing to work with them.
Any of us who desire relationships deserve to have relationships that are healthy and loving, where our differences are accommodated, we work together to make sure everyone's needs are met, and we are safe. It may not be easy, but people with NPD are just as deserving and just as capable of having this as anyone else.
An anonymous ask has helped me reflect on some parts of my post that are abuse-apologist in nature, and I want to make some amendments.
In one part, I wrote:
I want to point out that our behaviour in NPD tends to be subconscious and emotionally driven. We’re reacting out of our emotional states, our egos and our trauma wounds. It is not typical of NPD to have a conscious desire to exploit and harm, nor to deliberately seek out and ensnare vulnerable individuals in order to abuse them.
I wanted to challenge the narrative that pwNPD are these evil cartoon villains sitting and plotting in their lairs, choosing their victims and then enacting their evil plans. But, by using language like "conscious desire" and "deliberately seek out", it implied that unintentionally engaging in the harm and exploitation of others is somehow less damaging or more "okay" than if it were conscious. I want to apologise for that. It doesn't matter how intentional it was - the abuse the victim experienced was real regardless.
And this section:
Phases of enthusiasm for the relationship are not love-bombing, and phases of emotional distance are not meant as manipulation. Instead, it is often a constant internal battle between the desire for love and connection, and the fear of vulnerability and rejection, which can lead to inconsistent behaviours externally and within the relationship. The intent is not to control my partner; it is me trying to navigate the hurricane of conflicting feelings and needs as both a traumatised person and a human being who desires connection.
I do not think this dynamic is healthy or fair. I can only imagine how unsettling and distressing the periods of pulling away can be. But I don’t think it is necessarily always abusive, and it isn’t coersion or ill-intended.
It was not right for me to say or imply that this behaviour was not coercive or abusive just because that wasn't my intention. As the anon said, abuse does not require intent, and believing it does not only minimises the victim's suffering but also limits our ability to self-reflect and change our behaviour, because we can dismiss someone saying we harmed them as, "well, I didn't mean to, so it wasn't really abuse," - and that's not okay.
Ultimately, we - pwNPD, cluster Bs, people in general - don't get to determine how those around us experience our behaviour, so if someone says they were abused, please believe them, even if you/the perpetrator never meant to hurt them.
Npd culture is i don't know how to handle you being upset because I am all out of emotional empathy but I feel like an asshole if I do nothing but I genuinely don't know what to do anymore
I have rarely (or maybe not at all) seen pwNPD talking about being in love. I have noticed a pattern about a lot of them mentioning being aro/ace or aroace. Some are talking about their partner but not about how it feels to love them when having NPD. (Ofc I haven't seen every post, so I prob missed it)
So my question is how does it feel like loving your partner? More specific I am trying to explore the phenomens of pop psychology associating specific relationship patterns like love bombing to npd (for me it seems more like "a bpd thing" bc of the de/valuation cycles)
Maybe a little bit of backround: I have adhd and fixate on people and came to the conclusion it could be perceived as love bombing. I don't do it consciously or try to be manipulative, just doing what feels good to me.
So my second question is, what internal processes in npd are which manifest in a pattern of love bombing?
If you aren't alloromantic, I would be interested in your thoughts about this topic :)
I am gonna forewarn I do have mentions of sexual intimacy (though not like any explicit details or something moreso just how it ties into things) as it is a very important part of attraction and relationships to me.
Okay so for the first question some context:
I fluctuate on the asexuality spectrum, sometimes I'm completely repulsed, other times I'm indifferent, other times I'm very much the opposite to a near extreme degree to the point of sometimes getting into risky situations (though I've learned to minimize this mostly), and sometimes I experience sexual attraction but I don't want to. More often than not I'm experiencing probably an average to above average attraction and need and not on either ends of the extreme. For me at least regardless where I am on a given day, sexual intimacy is one of if not the most crucial aspects of a relationship for me, it is make or break.
I very much fall under like a very specific subtype of demiromantic (and nonhuman attraction that will be expanded on in the next section) that has a few main requirements. One is that they're not a prior friend, I meet them as a love interest or like maybe after a meeting or two, then they need to be the one to ask me out, then be in a confirmed relationship and only then will I feel romantic attraction soon after the establishment and it's 50/50 if it stays that way or not. Physical intimacy (including sexual) is also incredibly important, if they're not willing to reciprocate that, my attraction dries up faster than the Sahara. Do I know why this is? No, not at all. It's just a thing that exists.
Or the other option is a sexual relationship that turns into something deeper (or at least that's my guess), regardless intense intimacy is required right off the bat. I don't fully understand how my romantic attraction actually works, these are just guesses and hypotheses from the few relationships I've had.
Now the actual answer to the first question:
For my rare times I love, it feels very much like a pull or urge in my chest to be loyal, want to do things, service, fix issues for them, etc. I don't see them as below me if I do truly love them, they're on par or even above me in many ways and are very much an equal person. Though the initial honeymoon phase can also feel pretty strong in wanting to be around them, wanting to give gifts, etc. but that can still fade incredibly quickly. It feels kinda all consuming if I'm gonna be honest, they're on my mind all the time, I'm fantasizing a lot about them, I just want to be near them all the time to the point of like idk, I want them to be a part of me. But the fear of abandonment usually keeps people far away from that point in the first place. I've been in 3 relationships in my life, one for multiple years, one for like a month, and the other for like idk 8 months. The one that lasted multiple years was heavy on sexual intimacy that the other two just were not at all. It kept me engaged, she had a lot of issues I wanted to help fix, she was interesting. I felt unwavering loyalty to her that didn't exist or last for the other two. Obviously there's a reason we broke up, she fucked me up so badly and I'm still dealing with the fallout. But it lasted a long time.
Another way I think I could put it is it's almost akin to how a dog loves an owner. I don't really feel love in a traditional sense, I feel very much connected to dogs in the way of feeling almost akin to one. I experience nonhuman secondary and tertiary attractions more than romance in the traditional sense. It's very complicated for me, but that's the simple version of it.
Idealization and devaluation for me isn't always very obvious overtly. Though in the 8 month relationship in specific I felt like I was love bombing, constantly talking, complimenting, giving gifts and advice, making big future plans (like marriage and living together), hanging out all the time. I wanted to be physically and sexually intimate, but trauma and circumstances made us both unable to initiate, I felt like that needy dog again, I needed to be near him, I needed things from him he was unable to provide, I felt like I was begging for scraps with my tail wagging pathetically. So I started pulling away, stopped talking to him as much, I got extremely bored, everything felt the same and monotonous. He was also poly, I'm not really, so my jealousy would flare until it just got exhausting and burned out contributing to my boredom. Also he had really bad mental health issues which also just badly affected mine, it was basically two unstable people bouncing off each other and I could only take so much. To be clear, he and I are still friends, we go to concerts, hang out, sleep at each other's houses still, he's not a bad guy, none of the things I said here reflect necessarily on him, it's just my perception of the relationship and what I think happened within me, not anything he did in particular.
The multi year relationship on the other hand I was idealizing her for years, we were sexually intimate often and constantly interesting. She kept me on my toes. I felt like a needy dog constantly seeking her attention, her love, her time, I would text her all hours of the day to the point she got annoyed with me a couple times, I would fantasize constantly, I needed her like I needed oxygen. But towards the end some shit happened which caused a really really bad dissociative episode in me and it completely made me lose all interest in her almost overnight. I was done with her, I was tired and bored and feeling the aftereffects of the abuse and trauma she inflicted on me. I became incredibly disillusioned.
The month or two relationship I barely remember much about other than I got broken up with cause I was a complete dickhead and it was middle school so like eh. I don't really remember much at all about it nor do I care to try to remember to analyze the very short period. There was that sense of needing constant attention and affection still from what I can recall, same with wanting sexual intimacy (though it never happened lol, we were still very young). But when I was broken up with I kinda just shrugged it off and didn't feel upset about it at all and he rightfully distanced from me until we lost contact.
Tldr; love for me is really messy, has a lot of requirements and differences from normal people. Romantic love isn't really experienced the same way in my mind, it's all consuming, following my every waking moment, but in the way like how a dog constantly wants to be with their owner. I'll feel an unwavering loyalty, I'll want to do things for them, care for their opinions, they're equal or above me. I get butterflies around them, I want to be physically and sexually intimate often as that's a way I show love and it keeps my interest. I do have specific terms for my attraction however this section is getting very long lol.
Now for the second question:
I'm gonna be honest I'm not 100% sure there's a universal answer as it's very subjective. I assume for many it's a deep rooted fear of abandonment mixed with the ego and thoughts of "well if this person who I actually want around me or want something from me leaves, then what am I?" Along with the general thoughts and fears of loss, reputation damage, etc. those fears and thoughts can manifest harmfully in needing people to feel indebted, make them really like us off the bat, make them dependant, etc. so they're less likely to leave later.
There's an idealization of the person too, like a shiny new interesting toy that you want to play with so you make sure to take care. But once a newer, shiner toy comes along or the original toy gets dull, well, you care less for it and need to discard it. I know it's probably not super great to compare people to toys, but it's the best analogy I can make.
I'm sure a decent amount of things I've done could be perceived as love bombing (and if it's perceived that way it may as well be regardless of my intentions), in part due to fixations on people, but also a fear of abandonment. If I make someone love me strong enough, if I show them I'm worth it, show them that they're the only one worthy of my loyalty and love, then they're more likely to stay in my brain. I need to make them dependant on me so they won't leave. It's obviously not all that true, I can pour as much affection into someone as possible and they may still leave. And that's honestly a reality I don't like thinking about, like at all. If I value someone enough to actually love them, then they're not allowed to leave me until I'm bored. They're a shiny new toy and they better entertain me for all the work and care I put in initially and if it's not reciprocated or done how I want, they become dull and I don't want to play with them anymore. It's hypocritical, it's something I'm actively working on, but it is how my brain personally processes things as it stands.
All that said, I don't condone manipulation of partners, I know the majority of the time it's unintentional, we're not these evil masterminds that people try to portray us as. There are deep rooted issues for why that need to be worked on and for those who do self reflect, checking yourself to make sure you're not unintentionally love bombing or continuing the idealization and devaluation cycle is important for trying to self improvement.
They fuck you up, your mom and dad. They absolutely mean to and they ruminate about it like emperors plotting sieges, for hours a day, they have excel spreadsheets called "quickest pathway towards Giving my innocent child borderline personality disorder,"... But they do.
Actually? I do think us antisocials should get a lot more recognition for trying to get better because we essentially don't really get better at our core, and a lot of it is for the sake of others.
Of course it's not all of it, I would never try to get better if it didn't benefit me significantly, but even then I constantly feel like other people are winning more than I am with the work I put in.
Some of my antisocial traits ultimately make things hellish for me, and I would love those gone. But I have to suppress and learn to manage a lot more than that to be considered "in the process of recovering" by others.
So yes, I think they should appreciate the fact that I'm even willing to compromise on that.
I always thought I had plenty of it, like physical reactions if someone displays intense emotions and wanting to comfort my closest ones or sometimes even strangers. (Not that much anymore bc I tend to put my energy towards my loved ones)
But from early on I felt kind of trapped in my own body or feelings, not being able to actually feel the outside world (which may be also dissociating). I felt that my mind and my skin are the limitations of what I am actually able to percieve emotionally.
Sure, I was "trained" from childhood on in school, quoting every morning a proverb in my native language translated to "Do not do to others what you would not want done to yourself" to be considerate.
I took that by heart and still live by that quote. Expaned this "philosophy" by "do to others what you would want done to yourself".
I want others to care about me, so I care.
I don't want to owe someone because they were nice, so nobody owes me.
I want others to be heard so I listen to them.
I want to be treated as an equal so I try to see everyone on the same level as me.
But it's always about me. How would I feel/react if this happens to me? Kind of seeing everyone as an extension of myself.
Lately I recognized I sometimes can't live up to my "empathy" as if it's a limited ressource that can be used up but also refilled (still figuring out how to recharge).
Actions and thoughts which come easy to me when I am "high on empathy" are becoming extremly hard to feel/do.
When I am "low on empathy" can't get myself to care at all about others. I get pissy or mad if they require my consolation when I want to have fun. I get angry or even competitive if a friend demands and gets more attention from others than me. I start to compare myself to my loved ones, usually my best traits vs their worst or just the aspects where I know for sure I am better than them.
In this state it's almost painful if the attention or praise isn't solely directed towards me and what I have to say.
Me after building a positive reputation for myself and now I have to deal with ppl venting to me because they think I care when I’d rather pour acid into my ears than listen to them cry abt their trauma for the 12th time.
lying about/exaggerating trauma is a sign of SEVERE NEGLECT. Wishing your trauma was worse is also a sign of SEVERE NEGLECT. Just that you're having thoughts about wanting to be abused proves you WERE. No non-abused person looks for attention, because they don't need it. The idea that looking for attention is a moral failing on your part actively supports abusers, demonizes victims, and prevents recovery for both.
"Mental health advocates" when I tell them that I don't perceive a lot of people as actual sentient beings and as more "background characters" who don't have any deep thoughts or emotions are are simply there to take up space like NPC's
Tbh I think it's pretty human to think of others as NPCs?
Just in the sense of not knowing someone makes them an NPC, bc we did not evolve as humans to grasp the entirety of every living being on earth to be either sentient or a whole another individual, just a few selected ones - our ingroup.
Imo That's why rasicm and sexism are so common -besides upbringing and social constructs.
We as humans usually group common types of beings, people etc. That's why stereotypes regarding nations, skin color, religions, political views or even mundane activities like being a swifty, exist.
Also it's really telling that people jump to the conclusion that one must be treating others bad because they see them as NPCs... ever heard of being a decent human?
As I relate to a lot of your experiences (still discovering my patterns) I thought it would be the best to ask you directly:
How do grandious thoughts manifest in a communal narc like you declare yourself to be?
As in what are your favorite/typical fantasies?
I found myself to indulge in fantasies where I am able to either change global political systems for the better of humanity or in smaller scales being the best teacher ever and having a great positive impact on my students (in their ability to study and emotional guidence)
Hey cain-brandy, thank you and sorry for the late response cause I wasn't logged on here
As a communal narc, like I declare myself to be, my fantasies for my future would probably be occupying some prestigious role within the medical field where I'll actually have access to lots of people while simultaneously getting an unquestionable, socially sanctioned reason to help them. The idea that I could automatically be placed in a position where I could be famed, admired, trusted and loved without having to do so much or put much thought into it is appealing to me. Maybe working towards becoming a psychiatrist or a surgeon of sorts? or I imagine being a leader of some cult as their saviour would appeal to the same part of me, being the person everyone looks to for guidance, salvation or meaning.
I'd want to be perceived as the ideal saviour, a kind, understanding, polite and seemingly incorruptible person whom people just can't seem to bring themselves to condemn or accuse of any wrongdoings. being so thoroughly idealised and favoured for my outward traits and characteristics that whatever ugliness exists beneath gets completely ignored or subconsciously excused. I'd love to be malicious or have self serving intentions. But I just don't necessarily fantasise about being openly malicious, I wouldn't want things to be negative or draining in any way, I'd rather people fail to notice or instinctively overlook underlying villainy because the image of me as a good person is more comforting to them. I've also fantasised about my own existence being idealised, romanticised, or fetishised even for other people's benefits because I'd become something through which other people could experience happiness, hope and fulfilment. I like the idea of being the person miserable folks attach themselves to, the seemingly perfect figure they can depend on and derive meaning from.
Anyways, I believe and know from experience that this kind of grandiose fantasy wouldn't be good for me long term, but I still fantasise about it since my social circle in real life is similar to it. I'd still want to be loved for who I am underneath.
median culture is feeling like you've been handed your own personal mirror. the shards in it reflecting different versions of you (kins/emotions/etc). its still you as a whole, just slightly different.
(hopefully this doesn't sound too pretentious or something)
Suspecting npd (probably with a mix of bpd), how do pwnpd attach to other people?
Some backstory explaining my sizuation: I have a weird fixation on a work collegue I dated some months (it ended about 1 year ago). After the break up we tried to keep it friendly but he started playing games with me like "forgetting" to answer my messages (usually he answers pretty fast, within 2h or so and he knew I'll crash being ignored) or giving me attention, when I distanced myself, until I gave in and seeking his company again, then withdrawing contact (we see each other almost every day bc of work - never date your collegues!)
Now I am mostly torn between activly forgetting about him, planning to ruin his life and and prove my superiorty towards him, and wishing he would shower me with attention and praise (like in the "good old times")
Idk if it is important to mention but he was really proud/humble bragging about the fact, that he has narcissistic tendencies. (My only thought, when he told me about it, was that I am way too special to be discarded and it really boosted my ego being special to "a narcissist")
Did you or maybe other pwnpd also feel this torn/attached because of their equal/chosen person?
Not asking for a diagnosis just curious if my experience is similiar to others with npd.
I would appreciate any kind of feedback related to my experience to evaluate for myself "where" it belongs to. :)
Hmmm I mean he doesn't sound like a good guy in general. Also things like this where someone lovebombs and pulls away is an abuse tactic and feeling that attachment and want is how the cycle rolls unfortunately. So it's not all NPD, it's also just that human tendency to fall for manipulation and abuse and still sticking around and fixating on the abuser.
I don't get EPs easily at all, I've had one in my entire life who's not in my life anymore. But I do get complexes/fixations about specific people sometimes that can get pretty intense, whether it's good (wanting to be around them, wanting praise, etc.) or bad (wanting to hurt them, wanting to make them feel bad, assert my superiority, etc.) depends on the person. Sometimes it shifts between the two. But I can get very attached to someone I have a fixation or complex about that's not necessarily an EP. But usually I don't feel torn, I feel attached to them or I hate them viscerally and there's rarely an inbetween.
EP is a pull in my chest or idealization that they are at my level or above me and I'll do anything for them or to keep them near me. Fixation is just a period of time where I get really intense about learning about someone, but they're not necessarily at my level, they're almost like a really really interesting specimen in a lab. Fixations usually fade or lessen in intensity as time goes on, EPs gain intensity as time goes on.
Best way I can kinda describe it for me as well is like an EP I feel like a dog for if that makes sense, happy to be in their presence, wanting their attention, willing to basically do anything for their affections n stuff. It's kinda pathetic sounding, but I kinda gain the loyalty and affection that a dog would to an owner type of thing.
Fixations feel more like I'm the one in control of it, I'm the one who asks questions, who observes and makes mental notes, I'm the one who gathers information whether I interact with them or not. If they become less interesting or I find a new person, I fixate on that new person. I'm not as willing to do things for them, I don't feel a need to be loyal unless we're fairly close friends. Some fixations can be stronger than others especially if I start idealizing (though usually that period of idealization + fixation is short lived hence how I know it's not an EP) in which case I may be more willing to like stick my neck out or at least fantasize about doing so for their attention. Usually the fixation + idealization happens parasocially for me, like with strangers on the internet I find cool, usually not people like in my discord server or that I talk to regularly. But ultimately I'm not too lost on them when it ends.
This is just the general difference for me, in the moment it can become really hard to tell, but the roots, length, and intensity are usually different. Idk how it is for other people since everyone experiences EPs differently n shit
