So Chapter 5 has finally been released, and it has given us a lot more insight into Ralsei. We saw him continually express his own preferences, stand up for himself when he’s put down, and overall begin to develop his own identity after ignoring it for so long. And with the introduction of Flowery, I think that we’ve gained some insight into something that will turn out very crucial to the game’s final chapters: Ralsei’s latent power.
Ralsei clearly dislikes Flowery. Every time he appears to show off and taunt the heroes, he gets visibly irritated and seems like he’s holding himself back from snapping at him. This is stated more explicitly when you choose to spy on Ralsei at Flower Castle while he’s talking to Flowery, as he tells him that if he were to get like him, that he could burn him down in an instant. And it seems that he means this quite literally, as while the Fun Gang is climbing to the top of Flower Castle, Ralsei dramatically uses his fire magic to burn away a giant shuriken that was about to strike the team.
As it turns out, the crux of Ralsei’s conflict with Flowery is that he apparently knows about the Prophecy, that he is destined to lose to the Fun Gang, and that there are certain rules he must play by. Yet despite that, he claims that such rules are meant to be broken, acting with an immense confidence that Ralsei perceives as foolish arrogance. Despite this, Flowery truly does mean well, and he tells Ralsei that he’s only trying to get him to realize that he could be happy if he simply chooses to do what he wants. However, Ralsei insists that he cannot, and that if he stops playing by the rules, everything will fall apart.
With all the emphasis Ralsei puts on following the rules, it really does make it sound like him losing control of his powers is a key part of the Final Prophecy that he wishes so desperately to avert. And when one looks back on the ending of Chapter 4 with this notion in mind, a lot of things start to fall into place:
Why was Ralsei apologizing so insistently when Susie saw the Prophecy? Because she just saw that he, one of her closest friends, is fated to do something horrible, and she will be forced to stop him.
Why does Ralsei immediately wonder to Kris about how Susie is such a nice person and can be so kind? Because she just learned he’s a threat to everything, and still chooses to be his friend anyway.
Why did Susie find the Prophecy so absurd? Because up to that point Ralsei had been shown to be extremely kind and selfless. A nice kid like him putting the world in danger? It sounds ridiculous.
Why does Susie believe that Ralsei obviously wouldn’t let it happen? Because she believes him to have more than enough restraint to keep himself from hurting people.
Why did Ralsei think that the Prophecy could be averted just by being nice to people? Because it would allow him to continually distance himself from violence as much as possible.
Even the rhyming scheme of the Final Prophecy could align with this. For instance, something like “THE FALLEN PRINCE THE GIRL MUST SLAY” would fit with the pattern.
So, how exactly might Ralsei bring this level of destruction about? After all, he is but a single Darkner. Well, that brings us back to the Dark Truth from Chapter 2. During this sequence, there is a suspiciously prominent Titan placed in the center. Unlike the others which have thinner bodies with spikey horns, this one has a broader frame with thicker horns, not unlike a boss monster. And it just so happens that Ralsei is a being of darkness who unusually resembles one.
If Ralsei is fated to become a powerful Titan once the Roaring begins, then that would explain why he’s so afraid of using his fire magic, and how it could lead to a situation that could put the entire world in jeopardy. It would explain why during the Dark Truth, the land is seemingly depicted as being bathed in flames. And it would also account for the design of Ralsei’s fire magic, as the fireballs it generates appear to be colored versions of the small Titan spawn bullets which appear throughout the Dark Sanctuaries.
To top this off, there is a unique face sprite that Ralsei uses whenever he is in extreme distress. It is only used in six specific scenes througout the entire game so far:
When the Knight is about to create another Fountain in the Third Sanctuary that summons a Titan
When Susie is about to see and has seen the Final Prophecy
When he tells Flowery that he knows what will happen if there’s too many Fountains
When he tells Flowery why he can’t stop playing by the rules
When the Knight has created another Fountain in Flower Kingdom
When Flowery gets fatally wounded by the Knight
If these are the only times when Ralsei expresses such fear, then it would only make sense if they were somehow linked. And if Ralsei were destined by the Final Prophecy to turn into a Titan and stop playing by the rules once the Knight makes too many Fountains, it would be a perfect way of doing so.
So how might this play out going forward into Chapters 6 & 7?
Well, at the start of Chapter 5 Noelle has to leave the Festival early after Carol calls to inform her of Rudy’s worsening condition. It eventually ends with Susie telling Kris that they can no longer keep the Dark World a secret, and that they need to tell Noelle so they can get her help with finally acquiring the code in the guitar. This would seem to imply that the Dark World of Chapter 6 will be located in Holiday Manor.
Such a Dark World would almost certainly consist of snowy areas and similarly icy Darkners. Given Noelle’s love of the Dragon Blazers series and the fact that it is indirectly based off of the Prophecy, it could even take the form of the Ice Palace Noelle mentions in her copy of Dragon Blazers III and that we get a glimpse at in Chapter 3’s Sword Route. In such a place, Ralsei would be a force to be reckoned with. With him becoming increasingly assertive and impatient, he could end up using his fire magic in a way that proves fatal. Horrified by his own actions and seeing it as a sign of his coming fall, Ralsei may isolate himself from the Fun Gang, aligning with the mage leaving the party in Dragon Blazers III.
With the central conflict involving the Knight and Carol surely coming to a head, it is very likely that the Roaring could be initiated by the end of the chapter in one way or another. After playing both sides for so long, Kris may end up siding with the Ice Queen and her Roaring Knight, believing their promise to be more important than their new friendships. With the Fountains running wild and his body overcome by excess darkness, Ralsei will shift into his Titan form. With the other Titans by his side, they will be capable of bringing destruction to the entire world. Though she had initially tried to brush it off, Susie will be forced to see the Final Prophecy begin to come true before her very eyes.
The Prophecy comes with a built-in solution to this problem. To restore the balance of light and dark and save the worlds, Ralsei must be sealed away. But Susie, being the stubborn friend that she is, will not be able to go through with that. She will not resign herself to the narrative forced upon all of them. So what is she to do? Well, if she has a problem with the story, then she’ll have to take it up with the author. With all three codes acquired and the SOUL lighting her way, Susie will be able to enter the Shelter. She will take a peek behind the curtain to see the Man behind it all. If she wishes to succeed in Chapter 7, it will require her to put Gerson’s words into practice, and use her white pen to write a new ending for everyone that she cares about.
This fight is, in my eyes, the coolest fight in all of DELTARUNE. And I feel like everything about it is designed to pinpoint one very particular very specific power struggle, one that I don't see people talking about.
So, I thought I'd do a longpost about it. Hear me out.
PART 1: Setting the Stage
The way I see the Roaring Knight fight is like this.
It is two colossal titans going up against the other.
The true battle that is about to go down here is that of The Player and The Roaring Knight. The outcome of this duel will determine which side will actually prevail in the long term.
Both sides are defined by what they know... and what they don't.
To be more specific:
The Knight is aware of the Player's Existence, on at least some level. But I think, as I will get to later, is demonstrably unaware of the deeper mechanics of how we work. I think, at minimum, The Knight does not understand the power to SAVE- or at least, is not properly thinking about its larger implications. The Knight is going into this fight, therefore, with pure brute strength. The Knight is expecting this to be a clear-cut, instant, decisive victory against the heroes of prophecy. After all, there's a whole lot of stuff written in its life that it hasn't gotten to see yet, stuff that can only happen if it prevails. Further, the Delta Warriors are still at the very start of their quest. They know nothing of the hardships they will come to face. So this is going to be an easy victory.
The Player, on your first playthrough, is similarly aware of The Knight's existence, but is very, very unaware of what exactly we're dealing with. Most of us thought that The Knight would be someone we fight in the main story- a regular antagonist. Many of us even thought that The Knight would be done and dusted by, say, the end of 5. (Chess Theory my beloathed).
DELTARUNE itself even kind of misleads us with this, with Swatchling Dialog in Chapter 2 implying that It and Queen were at least comparable, with GIGA Queen being "more powerful" in the eyes of the Swatchlings.
Both sides are going into this battle, this duel, with a fundamental knowledge gap over the other. The Knight expects this to be over instantly. The Player is expecting this to be just like any other foe we've faced.
Both sides go into this expecting the same result: "I've totally got this, right?"
As it turns out, we don't got this. We lose, and The Knight's viewpoint, and strategy, proves correct. You are, more likely than not, unless you're some insane pro gamer god, going to lose your first encounter to The Knight. It is, as Gaster describes it, "Fate".
However, with this loss, the Player's knowledge gap closes. We now understand that The Knight got Hands. The difference between these two colossal forces... is that we get a do-over, and get to try again.
See, the truth is, we've seen this fight before.
It's the same fight that UT Geno showed us, twice.
The Ability to SAVE is... extremely broken. As the player, so long as the theoretical capacity for victory exists... we can achieve it, eventually.
The Knight... simply does not understand this. If it is aware of the Player's ability to time travel, I do not think they understand its significance in the larger picture. The Knight is much more of an Undyne the Undying than they are a Sans.
Our loss is, as Gaster puts it, our fate. But, we can try. By the angel, we can try. And we can lose! Over, and over, and over again, until our Determination to succeed eventually gives us the strength needed to surpass the impossible.
Slowly, over so many attempts, the tables of the match turn. We are slowly able to learn, to adapt, to overcome, to persevere enough to start making progress, to survive multiple turns.
At the center of this whirlwind of a showdown between two extremely powerful entities is Susie.
PART 2: Susie
Susie... does not really understand the greater "game" being played. How could she? She knows nothing of the Player, nothing of SAVE files, she knows about as much about the Knight as we did on our first go, probably less so.
She cannot begin to truly understand the larger power struggle going on here. But, she does know two things.
A) Holy #%@# this thing has got hands. Like exceptional legendary hands. This absolute beast is hitting with the force of a truck. This is an opponent leagues beyond anything we have seen before. We are Cooked.
B) ...Somehow, despite (A)... She is still standing.
Susie, bless her heart, does not have any idea how these two things can both simultaneously be true. She fundamentally lacks the context to understand what is allowing both of these things to be true, but she recognizes the significance of this. She is insightful enough to recognize that... something is wrong here, that this Does Not Make Any Sense, and, I believe, reasons that if even SHE is confused as to what is happening... Surely, The Knight must be as well?
So, she starts talking trash.
She points out the truth of the matter- The Knight fully expected this battle to be over before it began. And, by all means, SHE'S RIGHT!!! It REALLY should have been. It WAS, the first time around.
The Knight also realizes this. They, over the course of the fight, begrudgingly start exchanging their defenses for increased attack output to try and accommodate for this unexpected pushback. The attacks loop, this time more intense.
But it doesn't work. We continue to survive, and Susie continues to talk trash.
This ultimately culminates in The Attack. The Attack that, to me, is perhaps the most impactful single moment of the entire fight. This one Attack, to me, tells me literally everything we need to know about this matchup.
The rotating spinny slashy attack. Rotating Slash 3.
I actually did a whole standalone post about this, but I'm going to retread that ground here again because it's Important.
See, this attack is fascinating to me. Rotating Slash 3 is different from the other Final Versions of the Knight's attacks in that it has a completely added tacked-on bonus section at the very end. I suppose the later variants of Stars could be interpreted in a similar way but that's at least a direct evolution of the star exploding bullets already- this is like, an entirely different sequence.
In it, The Knight spams slashes in a rotating circle. Just looking at this attack in motion really gives off the impression that The Knight is Pissed. This is not a calm, calculated, precise maneuver, this is Rage. This is Fury. This is Passion.
But you know what makes it incredible?
Anyone who is seriously attempting this fight in DELTARUNE has probably beaten Sans. At the very least, anyone attempting this fight is probably at least FAMILIAR with his fight, through and through.
Which means you've already seen the Gaster Blaster Spinny Circle. It's iconic. Everyone knows it.
And what that means here is that THIS ISN'T EVEN A GOOD ATTACK.
Sure, maybe this thing catches you off guard the first time... but chances are? You just... dodge it! Because you already know how to do this! You've played these games before!
It is, in a sense, a culmination of the entire thing I'm outlining in this post- The Knight, functionally screaming "WHY WON'T YOU DIE ALREADY", and The Player just dodging it effortlessly for reasons that are entirely beyond its grasp.
And what makes me confident in this reading of the attack as Important is the fact that the Knight will always do this one. You Cannot beat The Roaring Knight without seeing this attack. If you get their HP down early, they skip directly to Rotating Slash 3, then Charge, then Neo Roaring.
Why? It's because this attack is narratively relevant, that's why. I also believe this is why we get the unique flavor text after it uses this attack:
You specifically get this flavor text if Rotating Slash 3 was used in a context that leads directly into the final chargeup phase of the fight.
If Susie is SWOONed, it instead says that "Susie struggled to give some kind of warning", but, how? How does she know? This isn't the turn The Knight has begun charging, this is the moment BEFORE the Knight starts charging. How does she know something is coming?
It's because Susie, too, noticed what I just talked about. The Knight, this entire fight, has been an angel-damned poker face, and has completely ignored any attempts to talk to it, has not said a damn thing, and beyond looking cool and aurafarming, has never once reacted to literally anything the party has done.
Until now. Because after THAT attack, it's displaying One actual emotion: Anger.
And if it wasn't angry before... dear fuck what is it about to do now.
So, she grows pale- She recognizes that Something Big is coming and that we might be cooked.
PART 3: RESULTS
Ultimately, the truth of this battle is that it was only ever destined to go one way.
The Knight has fate on its side. It has pure power beyond anything we've seen...
...But we're The Player.
We have the power to be Good at the Video Game.
The Battle is, technically, in theory, winnable. And so, it is.
Through repeated Trial and Error, victory is achievable.
Of course, The Knight does have fate on its side- the prophecy does dictate there are things it must do, and so we are forced to "Lose"... but does it really matter? We won. We didn't win the battle, per se, but we proved that winning the war is possible.
We made The Knight "bleed". We proved, directly, that it is possible to stand up to them, that it is possible to prevail, that their immense strength is ultimately not enough to keep them safe from Skill and we managed to force them to lose a chip of their sword and managed to force them to drop their Shadowcrystal.
In the final game, The Knight's blade is chipped slightly. In early sprites, however, The Knight's blade is completely snapped in half. I think the intended message is clear.
...
Upon victory, Susie realizes, in shock, that we actually did it. Somehow, we won. Somehow, despite this thing being way out of our league, we won. Even Susie is surprised by this. Her immediate reaction to victory is:
Because even she was concerned that we didn't have it. Again, she lacks the context, but is able to understand the significance of what just happened.
Unfortunately for her, she becomes extremely overconfident in this and this is her downfall. After clashing her Axe against the Knight's Sword, the Knight is only barely able to repel her away, chipping its blade in the process.
This makes Susie way too cocky for her own good, and seemingly confirms to her that everything she was saying about The Knight losing and being nothing compared to the power of Friendship or whatever was, just, actually true.
The Knight lost. We actually beat it. It's cooked. Look at it, it's barely even able to maintain its shape. Can you believe we were nervous??? That we were scared??? Look at it, it's over! We literally w-
The Knight uses this overconfidence, this moment of Susie dropping her guard, to pry victory back into its "rightful" hands, followed by using Ralsei's shock over how such a thing was possible against him as well.
All that remains is Kris. The squire, the pawn, the one who listens.
Kris is knighted, but not willingly. The blade is pressed into their shoulder, and they are forced into the floor. Kris is forced to kneel.
The act of being Knighted is supposed to be an honor. You kneel before your lord, and the blade is ceremoniously lowered onto your shoulder as a mark of respect.
This is not that. This is a mockery. A very stark reminder, that, at the end of the day, "You are My soldier."
Kris is not SWOONed, but they are still forced to suffer, being attacked offscreen and forced down to 1HP. It reads to me like a "Know your place".
From here, the story continues as normal. But there is so much more to talk about. There is legitimately so much more to talk about.
Every.
Aspect.
Of this fight.
Is designed to hammer in this one core idea.
That idea of "The Knight is destined to fail because The Player is beyond its comprehension".
PART 4: It's in the Everything
If you go back and SAVE right after defeating Tenna, something very interesting happens.
You are left on this screen, with Tenna right there to the right. Susie literally tells you "Alright, let's go!" and obviously, every player ever is going to move right to continue the story. Because why wouldn't you.
Why... wouldn't you?
Well, if you know what's coming, you know you want to SAVE here, because you don't want to have to re-fight Tenna every time you change your equipment or close out of the game. So, you walk to the left.
It's actually a pretty long walk. You have to walk for several seconds to the left to get to the SAVE point, since it's placed at the very start of the room.
And wouldn't you know it, inexplicably... there is dialog for this.
The dialog for the SAVE Point changes after you beat Tenna.
It emphasizes that Kris' hand lingers in the SAVE Point.
It emphasizes that only Kris can see the SAVE Point- that they can see it, that they are aware of it.
It emphasizes that they are calmed.
...Why? This is, to my knowledge, the first time since Chapter 1 that the game directly acknowledges that Kris can see the SAVE points.
Why is this here?
It's because it ties into the Everything. Kris is, I believe, the only member of the knightspiracy who actually understands the ability to SAVE- if not the only one who actually knows it even exists.
And the fact that we've just done this- that we've just completely ignored the obvious progression to make a detour that makes no sense, to SAVE, proves to Kris something simple.
See, Kris knows that The Roaring Knight is due to arrive any second now.
Kris also knows about the SAVE system.
Kris also understands the clash of powers that is about to take place. And they know that if The Player is not ready to play their part, that if the Player is not going to lock in and use their power to Go Back, there's just no way we win.
Kris, I believe, wants us to win. They want us to beat The Knight. They want out of this. (After all, "Don't forget, you promised..." is not exactly the sort of thing you tell your conspirator if you're 100% confident they'll stay loyal. That's the kind of thing you say to someone you think might choose wrong. )
Something, something, this Seth dialog from 5. (Remember that Aqua is very Kriscore and also Seth is like, somewhat part of the Plan since Kris ropes them into stopping us. So like.)
ANYWAY-
Kris wants us to win. To beat The Knight, to be free of all of the obligations and shackles that bind them.
And they understand that this action- this action of going back and SAVEing- indicates that we, too, are ready for what is to come.
Under this interpretation, Kris dealing more damage when their allies are SWOONed becomes more meaningful to me. It's not just that they're filled with adrenaline and maybe are angry that their friends are hurt. I think that, at least on some level, Kris desperately wants to win, and when the cards are on the table, and the curtain falls, their choice, when they are the last one standing, in the heat of the moment, is to give their all.
What does the Cough mean?
The general interpretation of it seems to be that Kris is basically telling the Knight "bro, it's over, wrap this up NOW." but I don't think that really makes sense. For starters, I feel like the Knight is not able to "instantly win". I don't think the Swoon Cutscene Slash is a universal ability. I hope you can see why from everything I've just went over- the struggle in this fight is Very Real and Very Important. So surely The Knight can't just call it at any time.
So what does the Cough mean?
I think it's truly as simple as: Kris is kind of caught in the lie? Kris knows exactly how the SAVE system works and is keeping this information secret from their allies because it's like, the one trump card they have. But we just used that power to completely humiliate the Knight by not getting hit even once. So it's kind of awkward and I think Kris just here like:
"*cough* Oh wow hahaha damn you didn't like hit us at all huh wow that's uh. that's crazy I have no clue how that happened." ( <- knows EXACTLY how that happened )
And the Knight tilting its head is like.
The Knight staring into the depths of Kris' SOUL trying to figure out if there's something they're not being told because The Knight, too, is realizing that this doesn't make any sense and is maybe some Bullshit.
I don't know about you but that's like infinitely cooler (and also funnier) than the general interpretation of Kris telling the Knight to wrap it up.
...Wow, that's a lot of yapping about like 3 lines of SAVE Point dialog. Surely that's it, right?
NOPE
Have you ever listened to Black Knife?
Okay, that's a dumb question, you almost certainly have.
The player is likely to lose this fight in the first few turns. On your first attempt, you're probably not hearing the song to the end.
Isn't it interesting how the music starts out as super threatening and imposing, but becomes inspired, almost hopeful, dreamlike, near the end?
This power struggle is baked into the music itself. As you get better at the fight, you start to hear more of the music, which means the music starts to get more hopeful. It's like the song itself is going from "You're screwed" to "Wait... is this possible?"
Speaking of that! Isn't it interesting how Gaster shows up here?
Upon attempting The Knight again after failing, Gaster appears to give thoughts.
He basically concludes that our loss is all but guaranteed, and yet we are trying anyways. He offers to allow us another attempt.
And another. And another. At this point, Gaster does not Believe. He is here to ease the transition of trying over and over again, but... even he seems to kind of think this isn't gonna work.
But if you get close...
He begins to believe. He sees the light. He recognizes that it's within reach, and urges us to go just a little bit further.
Again, the game is emphasizing the importance of repeat attempts here- the importance of trying over and over again, slowly improving.
OH YEAH, also, Eram!!! What does Eram talk about?
The burning red flames in Kris' eyes. It feels pretty clear to me that on some level this is about The Player. So also in relation to this fight is another separate fight that really emphasizes the power of the player, and is also one the player is likely to need several attempts for.
Finally, I'd like to talk about the final attack, the fullscreen attack.
It is my opinion that the ability to do these fullscreen attacks is one of the "strange powers" the Shadow Crystals have. You don't need to really buy this but I did another post about that a while ago. Anyway point is if you believe that then I think the reason The Knight's neo attack is so much stronger than Jevil and Spamton's (and can actually kill you) is because The Knight fully understands the mechanics of the battle system and knows that they need to fully commit their turn to using an ITEM. This suggests The Knight has a deeper understanding of the combat mechanics which is important to this tangent but even if you don't buy this specific explanation I think Flowery indicates pretty well that The Knight knows what it's doing and how the battle system works- it can ignore Fake Statistics.
This, to me, is an extremely strange moment in the fight. It seems to me like the implication is that doing the fullscreen (or "Neo", as I call it) attack basically drained the Knight of its energy. This makes sense- Spamton and Jevil use their Neo Attacks near the end of their fight, and The Knight functionally pops it much earlier.
I also don't think it makes sense to say that The Knight didn't anticipate this. I don't think it makes sense to say The Knight somehow didn't know that using its ultimate move would leave it defenseless. I also don't really buy that the Knight was deliberately doing a fakeout to give us false confidence because, as I hope I have made clear throughout this post, I feel everything about this fight is designed to point us in the direction that this is a Real Power Struggle and The Knight severely underestimates us .
So, then, the fact that The Knight chose to do their neo attack like this... Well, They're basically going "Okay, damn, they're somehow still standing? Fuck it, we ball, I'm using my ult. That'll get them."
In essence: "This battle ends now, either I win this turn or you win next turn".
They are aware that technically if we survive this they'll be cooked but. Surely we don't survive this. It's like the ultimate attack, there's no way we survive. The fact, then, that the Knight chooses to do the neo attack anyway, implies that The Knight believes the odds are in its favor- That is, The Knight believes that we will Not survive the neo attack and will die to it. (An assumption that, in my experience, seems more true than not- the Knight's fullscreen attack is pretty dangerous and I've seen many people die to it. I died to it twice...)
This, in my eyes, is The Knight's ultimate blunder, and it's what makes me confident that The Knight does not understand the SAVE System, because this sort of tactical decision makes zero sense if you know the enemy has the SAVE System.
Imagine if Sans, at the very start of Phase 2, decided to throw a Bone of Super Death at you really quickly that oneshot killed you if it hit, but if it missed, he immediately had no energy and instantly fell asleep and so died on the next turn.
Would that make any sense?
No, it wouldn't, because Sans is someone who understands the larger metagame of the battle and knows that his priority should be ensuring the battle goes on for as long as is physically possible. Any sort of gambit of "Either you die Now or I'm cooked" makes zero sense because even if it works once, even twice, the Save-wielder can simply keep trying and if they survive even once, you're basically just handing the win to them.
So the fact that The Knight chooses to make this call- the call to risk everything for the big finish- heavily implies to me, at least, that they truly do not understand their opponent and are treating this like any other fight.
PART 5: CONCLUSIONS
Everything about this fight.
From Susie's Dialog.
To The Rotating Slash Attack.
To The Way The Knight's Damage Reduction Lowers With Time.
To The Music Itself.
To The Gaster Dialog.
To The SAVE Point Dialog Before The Fight.
To The Knight's Ultimate Blunder with the Fullscreen Attack.
To ERAM before it.
To me , at least, it feels like it's all pointing in one direction. It's all part of one single vision, the vision that in spite of everything, The Player has the power to persist and try again, and that The Knight does not understand this and is doomed to fail to it.
It is really fun to me that it's basically an inversion of the big fights in Geno. In UNDERTALE, the player's persistence was a bit of a bad omen- Sans and Undyne are powerless to stop you from destroying their world, it's almost tragic.
But this time, the tables have turned. Because instead of trying to destroy the world, we're trying to save it.
For a change, that DETERMINATION, that DETERMINATION to overcome an impossible opponent... it's being put to good use here.
...
That one attack truly does put it all into perspective for me.
The Knight, lashing out in absolute rage... only for it to completely not work, because the Player has played this before.
This is why The Roaring Knight Fight is, to me, the coolest battle in DELTARUNE.
(And, separately, this interpretation is why I really don't like any interpretation that involves The Knight, like, testing us or something, because I truly do think that everything about this fight is designed to emphasize this power struggle, which kinda means nothing if the Knight is not fully expecting a victory here.)
This was a long one. I hope that at least a few people can see my vision with this, because I think I am extremely confident in this general read of the battle.
Regarding what may happen with Ramb in 6 or 7, I think it ultimately comes down to how ERAM’s comeback takes place. With Pink’s dialogue about “someone who owned a whole pack of cats,” the odds of ERAM relevance have never been higher imo. And with its relevancy raising, so does the rest of the Sword Route and, of course Ramb!
And while Pink’s fight does sorta…already do a lot of the ideas I though a Wer-ERAMB fight would play with, the fact that she specifically had a *happy* outcome still gives me hope that WerERAMB would explore a similar relationship that we have with Kris on Side B.
I still think, even with the likelihood of Seam getting a fight, that Ramb’s fight would be handled similarly to a “secret boss” considering its only on the Sword Route that he got kidnapped.
STAY STRONG RAMB NATION, STAY STRONG!
I always think back to my first idea about a potential Ramb Battle and what it could mean as a parallel to Kris's situation;
Ramb is a plugboy, a darkner literally built to be mind controlled and puppeted. No matter how it happens he's going to be in a situation that's similar to Kris
Spamton was here to explain the concept of having strings controlling you and obviously wanting to be free of them,
Ramb could be here to explain why the strings are there in the first place.
why someone would make the self destructive decision to give up their autonomy and be controlled by someone/something else, even though it could very well use them to cause harm...
Not belonging, having no friends for the longest time, being the weird jokester who ends up hurting people when they were just fooling around as they'd always be, even guilt over their actions-
It could all make a person give up on themselves because they think whatever they are is just rotten, not worth being, not useful to anyone. The feeling of "anyone could live my life better than me", wanting to be of use and be good no matter the price you have to pay for it... like not caring you're turning to stone so long as your lightner is having fun.
Basically, the reason behind Kris's situation and the themes it brings up are what I personally believe a Ramb fight will tackle and play with. Maybe the relationship between the controlled and controller will get explored within it too... the theme will have to be present, there's always a person behind a werewire... The specifics remain to be seen!
There's another part to this that I'm a bit too shy to go into publicly (mostly cus I'd still like to distance myself from the fandom a little) but it has to do with Ramb representing Kris's memory
(Ramb/Romb = RAM/ROM, like "Random Access Memory" and "Read Only Memory", also Ramb's association with the track "dump", like a ROM dump.)
And how Kris represses their memories especially of their trauma... And Ramb being forgetten by his dark world and intentionally written to be overlooked by the players... But again, not sure making this take public is a good idea lol.
Also I've never been big on eram importance... eram is not a character, it's the shadow mantle. The shadow mantle's HOLDER however, like the one talking to Kris throughout the mantle game as the shadow mantle, the actual person fighting us, is absolutely relevant and important. But that's just semantics I got what you meant lol...
I've been toying with the idea that they're also the owner of the friend cat hunting pack, since they summon friends during the fight, but it's all still too vague for me to make any concrete conclusions
but Ramb's gonna need someone to push him into giving up his autonomy, just like someone made Kris go along with this plan... Made them make a promise...
It's a very fun concept :]
Will it be weird route exclusive? Will Ramb be a secret boss or a normal unavoidable one? Whos to say really. I don't have a preference, every option has a ton of narrative potential, so I'm just excited. but I'm glad we all agree that something will happen, regardless of how :]
Also... Who says it all has to happen in chapters 6 or 7? Those aren't our only options... >:]
Lovely analysis as usual! You mentioning the notion of Kris repressing memories being related to Ramb *does* also remind me of his unused dialogue talking about how the memories that Kris forgets/represses is also reflected in the Darkners they bring to life. Not sure how to exactly fit it in…but it being related to Ramb’s deal in the grander scheme of things wouldn’t surprise me.
The Devilsknife is, and I do not exaggerate, my favorite weapon in all of fiction. Period.
It's a perfect blend of narrative, thematic, and mechanical synergy.
This item holds a place very very dear to my heart, and while I may be alone in my obsession with this thing, I felt obligated to make a post about it to put my thoughts out there. Maybe someone else will Get It.
This post is not a very structured one this is kind of just a Brix Ramble. Sorry,
My Journey
The Devilsknife is an AXE-Type weapon in DELTARUNE for Susie. It grants +5 Attack, +4 Magic, and a unique Buster TP Down effect that reduces the cost of Rude Buster from 50% TP to 40% TP.
In the grand scheme of things, this AT is subpar. By Chapter 2, we have access to +4 AT axes, and by 3, we have +6. As of Chapter 4, the JusticeAxe provides +12 AT, substancially stronger.
While there are arguments for the Devilsknife as a combat tool, by Chapter 3, it doesn't really hold value for sheer damage in a general sense, and even in 2, the AutoAx + Jevilstail competes pretty fiercely.
In Chapters 1-2, this basically meant that the Devilsknife, while good against, say, King, wasn't really that notable. Jevilstail was much more versatile, could be given to Ralsei for better healing, and seemed to be the better pick.
Even I, as much as I hate to admit it, bought into this agenda. I believed that the conclusions other people had come to- stat nerds, and at the time, I wasn't a stat nerd myself- were accurate, that the Devilsknife was unfortunately slightly outclassed. Some people I knew suspected it might become useful, but I was a bit of a doubter.
Going into 3-4, I was tasked with creating my final file.
For Spamton, the pick of which route to go was obvious. The Dealmaker is cracked as hell, and the Puppetscarf seemed useless to me. For Jevil, however...
Well, some of my friends decided to go with the Devilsknife under the assumption that Jevil turning into the Devilsknife may result in some lore significance down the line. I reasoned, at the time, that I was probably good enough at the game to where the Jevilstail's minor stat boosts- which I considered to be 'technically more optimal'- were not too important to me, and so it was more important to me that I pick the Devilsknife, the potentially lore relevant item.
This decision, this decision to choose Devilsknife over Jevilstail, ended up being possibly the biggest minor choice I've made as a DELTARUNE Fan, because I was absolutely unprepared for what was about to happen in 3-4.
CHAPTERS 3-4
The Roaring Knight appeared.
When I sat down to grind this fight- which I did before truly getting started with 4 (I started the chapter and played up until Castle Town, at which point Seam told me I was a fool and needed to get the Crystal from The Knight), something that became clear very quickly was that the only thing that remotely hurt this motherfucker was Rude Buster.
I went back to my playthrough and while I can't find a specific moment of me calling this out I was extremely thankful that I had the Devilsknife for this reason. It truly makes a massive difference in this fight. The difference between Casting and Not Casting RB is astronomical.
Then, we fight Gerson.
Once again, Rude Buster is the key to success, and being able to cast it easier is pretty useful. Additionally, your only healing source is Susie herself, so +4MG is useful.
After completing Gerson, you unlock Betterheal, a better version of Susie's healing. From this point on in the game, her healing is now legitimately viable. From here, the +4 MG the Devilsknife provides goes from a mild bonus to Rude Buster to a legitimate boost to Susie's utility as a party member.
In fact, it's even better than the JusticeAxe- the so called "magic axe". It turns out, that the JusticeAxe only gives you Magic Powers insofar as you need to have magic powers in order to attain it. My initial reaction to this was that it was lame.
But over time, I came to realize something.
It wasn't... coincidence that this happened. The Devilsknife was always there. Waiting.
These stats, these two attributes, the Rude Buster Cost Reduction and the boost to MG... they were always there, waiting, waiting for the day they would finally become important. I refuse to believe it was on accident. I fully believe that in the Chapter 1 days, Toby Fox fully knew what he was doing with this item.
In Chapter 1, it seems that these attributes make a decently fun unique offense weapon. Cheaper Rude Busters? Hell yeah. But in 2, it quickly became kinda outclassed and while it wasn't necessarily obsolete, it seemed consensus was that it didn't really have any real mechanical edge over Jevilstail.
But then in 3-4, it gets the Comeback of the Century as it, back-to-back, is an absolutely goated keystone item for two consecutive secret bosses, AND secures itself a niche as the True Susie Healing Weapon.
Why doesn't the JusticeAxe have any sort of Magic Buff? It's because We already have the "magic axe" that gives you a magic boost. It's called The Devilsknife, and if you got it, you've had it since the start of your journey. Susie just needed to grow enough to where she could take full advantage of it.
Further, I eventually came to realize that Rude Buster was thematically relevant. In essence, I believe Rude Buster is representative of Susie's indomitable spirit- her resolve, her resilience, her rude attitude. As part of that analysis, I realized that the Devilsknife specifically interacting with Rude Buster wasn't just an offense boost- it was narrative information. Why does the Devilsknife affect Rude Buster? It's because Jevil is all about doing whatever he wants in spite of the rules.
It. Was always. There.
And when you actually look at what Jevil says when he gives it to you... he practically spells it out.
Allow me to translate this Jevilspeak into actual english for a moment:
WOW! YOU'VE GOT HANDS!
BUT THERE'S PEOPLE WHO ARE EVEN STRONGER THAN I.
THE KNIGHT WILL KICK YOUR ASS. ALSO QUEEN IS COMING.
CAN YOU STOP IT?
TAKE ME AND GIVE THEM HELL!!!
To reiterate- Jevil basically tells us to go use him to Kick The Knight's Ass, then proceeds to give us the Knight Destroyer Weapon 5000 Now With Added Rude Buster Cost Reduction... and... none of us realized what he was actually saying here because we lacked the context to understand it.
It is also only in the Devilsknife dialog that Jevil outright warns us about the yet faster, yet stronger opponents.
Should you Pacify JEVIL instead, he simply remarks that the "shadow of the knight's hand" will awaken a nightmare in our hearts, questions if we can stop it, and then gives us the Jevilstail.
And, that's just it. He gives you the Jevilstail, but becomes the Devilsknife. This is furthered by Jevil's unused recruit data in Chapter 2.
The implication here, interestingly, is that the plan was that you'd only RECRUIT Jevil if you beat him up and got the Devilsknife, because only the Devilsknife is Jevil himself.
I think at some point Toby actually went back on this- against Tenna, if Jevilstail is equipped, the Bet20 ACT becomes Bet30, is described as Joker's Bet, and Jevil's laugh sound plays. This kind of implies the Jevilstail is Jevil himself.
It strikes me as noteworthy that from Spamton and Jevil, one of the items, the "correct" path, the one obtained by doing what they actively want you to do (Jevil asks you to fight him; Spamton wants to be free) is a significantly better item that maintains its use and functionality and is also specifically something we see them use. (Jevil turns into the Devilsknife; Spamton is wearing the Dealmaker)
And then the other item, obtained by doing the "wrong" path, by refusing to give them what they want (Refusing to engage in Jevil's numbers game and PACIFYing him instead; Fighting Spamton and damaging him), is merely a piece of their physical body (Jevil's Tail, Spamton's Strings), and the item is significantly worse and doesn't maintain its niche in future chapters as well.
My guess is that the Devilsknife (and Dealmaker) were meant to be the "correct" option but after seeing how basically everyone got Jevilstail, Toby decided to soft retcon this. I also suspect the Dealmaker was designed in a similar way as the "correct" option, and the Puppetscarf was meant to just be something salvaged from the wreckage. (This is also why the Puppetscarf is still obtained in Weird Route even though Spamton is presumably dead).
The Spells in Chapter 5 support this. Devilsknife and Dealmaker specifically get cosmetic interactions with Scythemare and Revivesong specifically, and Jevilstail and Puppetscarf get jack.
In general, from all of this, I feel exceptionally confident that the Devilsknife is simply the Correct pick. And to me that's just... so cool?
Like, I really feel like I'm just going in circles, but the fact that this item has been lying in wait since CHAPTER 1 with stats that are specifically designed to carry it into endgame is just such a cool concept to me.
I love the Devilsknife.
Long Live the King.
+4 MG.
The True Magic Axe, perfect for Susie. She just needed to learn how to use it.
Since the ending of Chapter 3 we have known that three codes are required to unlock the Shelter, each represented by a different symbol—a pine tree, an officer’s badge, and the DELTA RUNE.
We learned during Chapter 4 that the pine tree code is hidden within Dess’ guitar and is under the protection of Carol. And at the end of Chapter 5 we acquire the officer’s badge code in Flower King, as it was given to Asgore when he was the police chief and hidden within the soil of his golden flower.
All that leaves is the DELTA RUNE code. Susie points out in Chapter 4 that this is the symbol for the Church, and says it might be located there. Considering Alvin’s ominous warning to Kris to stay away from the Shelter when asked, this seemed quite plausible to many.
However, we find no trace of the code in the Church when we return later on for the Dark World. Even after Susie leaves the touching letter to Alvin, he makes no mention of the Shelter or possessing a code in Chapter 5. In fact, you can skip him entirely during the Festival.
At the end of Chapter 5 Susie emphasizes the need to tell Noelle about the Dark Worlds and retrieve the pine tree code, indicating that we will likely return to Holiday Manor to retrieve the code and likely explore a Dark World in Chapter 6. This makes it unlikely that she would abruptly decide to return to the Church for the DELTA RUNE code.
So if Alvin doesn’t have the DELTA RUNE code, then who could? Well, I think the answer may have been hiding in plain sight from the very beginning. It’s Toriel.
To start off, there’s the relevance of the symbol itself. While not an official staff member at the Church, Toriel regularly attends its services and sings in its choir. She even has the DELTA RUNE above the entrance to her house and on her choir uniform. In fact, Toriel was the first character in this series to be tied to the symbol through this outfit which she wears in UNDERTALE.
Like Carol and Asgore, Toriel is also an authority figure within Hometown. She is the senior teacher at Hometown’s only School, giving her considerable influence among its youth. She is also a member of the Dreemurr family, seemingly the town’s second most important family due to their friendship with the Holidays, and such connections could lead to her being entrusted with the responsibility of safeguarding a Shelter code.
Then there’s Toriel’s high risk of being captured by the Knight as of late. Although it’s possible that the Knight was primarily concerned with capturing Undyne at the end of Chapter 3, it is nonetheless emphasized in Chapter 4 that Toriel might be at risk of falling into the Knight’s hands. In fact, the only reason she didn’t end up in the Dark World is because it happened to rain and she got distracted while hanging out with Sans. Revealing that this was because he held a code like Undyne and Asgore could allow Toby to pay off all this build up.
Then there’s the matter of Toriel’s room, which has been conspicuously locked since the very start of the game. According to Sans, this is because she bought some chocolate kisses from him and has to keep Kris from eating them. However, this could simply be a cover reason, especially given that Sans has been further implied in Chapter 5 to know more than he should. There’s also been an unused room in the code since Chapter 2, indicating that Toby has been deliberately held off on letting us inside. To reveal that there was a code in there could be a way of paying off all this build up.
But I think the most appealing aspect of this idea is how it could slot into the progression of Chapter 6 and the overall story. Toby has told us that Chapter 5 was intended to be the last fun adventure before the sun sets completely, and the story takes a more serious turn. Toriel getting captured at the start of Chapter 6 would emphasize this well, as we, Kris, and Susie would lose a prominent figure which has served as a symbol of comfort and normalcy since the beginning of the game. Furthermore, this event could cause Susie to realize that the Knight is specifically targeting code holders. She would therefore be spurred to head towards Holiday Manor and its Dark World, as she worries that the Knight will be after Carol next and put Noelle in danger.
Not only could this highlight Susie’s heroism in wishing to protect Carol despite being a jerk to her when they first met, but it would also emphasize her incomplete awarenesss of the situation as she assumes that Carol is another innocent bystander like Toriel. This would then make it even more impactful should it be eventually revealed that she as well as Kris were planning this the whole time…
so, DELTARUNE, huh!!!
another assorted post of different men from the last month or so, for a first in a very long time as well i've gone and drawn three different pre-shatter designs for the guy to mix it up a little, added alt text to that one if you wish to read my thoughts on them <: ]
context for the first one, cornily exploring more about UF/DN being mirrored counterparts and how maybe the secret bosses or anyone related to secret anything would Already Know.
Highkey, I’m pretty sure you aren’t supposed to read these characters like this, I just connected the dots and dunno where lol
Something about idealized versions of ourselves, being a total “good” vs “bad” person, fixed views of the world, and the change of it through out interactions with others
