Now folks I know about disregard to specific utdr characters in merchandise as an acknowledgement to their canonical disappearance and as a way of acknowledging their yet to be reached climax in the story but THIS is RIDICULOUS (laugh track plays loud enough to almost perfectly conceal my screams of agony)
Even if we put aside all the evidence against ramb being eram- is the story of some weird old pure evil creature who likes to torture some child for no reason, or thinks pain equals fun without any more apparent depth to that besides "haha contradiction brings tension" really more compelling than the story of an old toy who keeps accidently harming his loved ones when he's just trying to help and make them happy, which is already a theme in deltarune? Did we forget what game were playing? An adventure of humor and friendship?
People want Ramb to be this super knowledgable guy who truly understands the implications of the sword route and etc, possibly even being ERAM directly... and this guy doesn't even know about the knightspiracy.
I love Ramb but he's not a Knower. He's like the definition of "Bro thinks he's on the team".
Exactly! That’s what makes him all the more tragic! He meant well but ended up getting caught up in a conspiracy much larger than him and suffers because of it.
After so long in development, it's finally ready to be announced. It's not out just yet... but it will be soon.
Please look forward to DELTARUNE: SOULBlazers, a mantle-style fangame based on the Sword Route in Chapter 3.
In this game, you play as the SOUL, and are able to command the heroes in order to solve puzzles. It's a full-length game, with 7 dungeons, challenging bosses, and story.
And it's releasing LATER THIS MONTH!!!!
You can check out the game page here in the meantime:
Remembering that which is forgotten: An analysis of The Forgotten Man.
The Forgotten Man is a fascinating topic of discussion, but I feel like my interpretation is wildly different from what the fandom consensus seems to be.
This is one of those things that a lot of people disagree with me on, but, please hear me out here. I think that people generally are looking at The Forgotten Man in the wrong way.
I often see people reading The Forgotten Man as this, like, really abstract and symbolic character- a manifestation of something relating to Kris, a trauma response.
This is an extremely hot take, but I do not think that this is what The Forgotten Man is. I feel, personally, that a more literal interpretation of this entity is more accurate- and still thematically resonant.
I will readily admit that this reading may perhaps be something that I am biased in seeing. Maybe I just see what I "want" to see. But I hope that I can convince at least a few people of this vision.
PHASE 1: WHY HE'S "REAL"
I feel like the first thing I want to establish is that The Forgotten Man Is Real. Like, this, to me, is the biggest reason I'm against a more symbolic interpretation of this guy.
For starters, he exists in the Light World.
And, the Eggs that he gives us are also very real, in that Susie is able to acknowledge them:
This, to me, is slightly weird if The Forgotten Man is somehow a manifestation of something relating to Kris.
If anything, it seems he's somehow some sort of Lightner. He's not part of the Dark Worlds.
But, perhaps, more importantly than that, is the fact that... he doesn't just talk to Kris.
He spoke with Noelle, too. And this, to me, is foundational in understanding The Forgotten Man.
I actually want to take a moment to talk about this in detail:
Behold, Noelle's post on Cat Petterz. In this, she recounts that she likes to use mods in Cat Petterz 2, but due to the nature of the mods, it was risky to allow eggs to hatch, since there was a chance of this leading to a crash.
She says that she was actively scared of this interaction happening. So scared, in fact, that she would play the game "wrong", punishing her pets so that they never fell in love, and if an Egg did somehow appear, she'd throw it out instantly.
Until one day. That phrasing, combined with the fact this is a link, inherently suggests that the link will explain what changed this. She used to have this fear, but no longer does, because of this one day.
So what happened?
She describes trying to get the Secret Cats by constantly grinding out eggs. Notably, this is clearly a different scenario from the one she just described- In the original post, she was talking about mods breaking eggs (leading to her fear), and in this one, she clearly is fine to do this. But, as mentioned, we should assume there's a direct relation between what happens in this post and her fear of the eggs, so we should keep reading. Additionally, she later acknowledges that this was a modded instance of the game, so we can assume that maybe the reason she's not scared is that this method of obtaining eggs should be fine. This makes sense, given there's no cat breeding involved, it presumably just picks from an existing list.
Anyway:
She describes getting an egg that's "Special". She was excited at first, but then realized the egg never hatched, and was not going to. Her fear- the fear of something being wrong, of a glitch, of the game breaking- crops up again, and she attempts to do what she always did before- to trash the egg, to get rid of it. Just like she would get rid of potentially broken modded eggs.
...But it doesn't work. She can't. She can't run from her fear this time.
She is so freaked out that she completely deletes the game and reinstalls it... and it's still there. She. cannot. run.
After panicking some more, thinking that she was haunted, she decides to do the only thing she can: She faces her fear.
And because she does this, she realizes that the Egg... is not actually scary! She brushes it, she treats it like a pet. She does the exact sort of thing she was so scared of doing before, she's actually "playing the game" properly this time.
By the end of the day, she has completely come around on this thing, and she wants to figure out how to put it online as a mod.
But, of course...
She hesitated, and we all know you can only hold onto an egg for so long.
The thing that strikes me as fascinating about this tale here is that... Did the Forgotten Man not help her? Sure, she was scared, but... she got over her fear. She was originally terrified of the Eggs in her game because of the potential for a glitch, but through her encounter with The Forgotten Man, she got over it. She was forced to face her fears and overcome them. She was helped.
You may think it strange that she didn't mention meeting The Forgotten Man...
...But how could she?
How could she write about what she cannot remember?
To be clear, I don't necessarily think the forgotten man was like, literally in her house or something, but I think it's clear this was, somehow, a real interaction the two had, even if through strange digital means.
This whole interaction is even more meaningful in my eyes, but we'll get to it later. For now, I'd like to move my attention to another scene.
PHASE 2: THE ART THERAPY SCENE
The Art Therapy scene in Chapter 4 is heavily analyzed. I understand where people are coming from. But I would like to share my own personal take on what is actually happening in this scene.
People, as mentioned before, generally seem to take a very symbolic reading of this scene. This makes sense, it's a very strange scene and it almost feels like we should be reading into it as immense symbolism, that the man is a coping mechanism for something darker.
But... at least personally, I think there's perhaps value in actually treating this scene literally. Here's what I mean.
Kris picks up their pencil. They attempt to sketch what they had seen behind the tree.
They attempt to draw The Forgotten Man, who is standing right next to them.
What is a photo but a memory?
Before we had photos, we had art.
The Man cannot be remembered, but Kris will attempt to remember him anyways by drawing him.
However... The Man cannot be remembered, even through this, and so the line errs. Because Kris is attempting to draw something that categorically cannot be drawn. To keep a memory the universe itself has decreed they cannot.
Determined, Kris does this over, and over, practicing, but they keep struggling to get it right, their hand automatically trying to draw something else instead, as though they were constantly losing track of the objective at hand.
Eventually, through sheer repetition, they learn, they learn to be faster, to get it right so quickly that there simply isn't time for anything to intervene,
And through this, they are able, just barely, to complete a sketch of The Forgotten Man, but in the process of doing so, it's barely recognizable as him. Even the completed sketch doesn't really help.
The narration pauses here. There's a (...) .
And then, it continues, describing that a Tree was painted over this, painted over it all, leaving nothing but the simple still life of the tree. Because, after all, there wasn't anything to look at in the room besides a single tree.
By the time Kris managed to successfully draw The Forgotten Man... they can no longer even remember what they were supposed to be drawing.
Our minds are designed to make sense of the present. I'm not an expert in psychology, but to my understanding, it's a very real psychological phenomenon that our brains will kind of just make stuff up to attempt to explain why we're doing what we're doing even if it's not actually true, be it our past actions or our current ones.
And, in the same way that Kris' hand "autocorrected" of a sort into drawing other things when they were attempting to sketch the forgotten man, as they forgot the Forgotten Man's existence, their brain, again, "Autocorrected". What were they drawing? Uhh... they were drawing what they saw in the room, right? What was in the room? It was just that tree, right? We should be drawing that. No clue what this monochrome thing is. This, to me, is the purpose of the narration pause. It's emphasizing that pause, that brief moment of thinking that leads to the next action.
The narration pauses, yet again, after the tree is complete. Kris gets up. It appears, to them, to the best of their knowledge, that this painting is complete.
The narration pauses yet again.
And Kris notices something. Their hand is smudged with graphite. Their hand is still moving, still imbued with the muscle memory of the initial sketches.
Kris attempted to draw The Forgotten Man. To create a symbolic representation of his existence. If they cannot maintain a conscious memory, perhaps they can create a physical one.
This is a task doomed to be failed, because The Forgotten Man is forgotten. He cannot be remembered. Not by people, and not by things.
By the time Kris manages to actually make a depiction of The Forgotten Man, proving it theoretically possible... they no longer can remember what the depiction is meant to represent, and immediately destroy it.
...And yet... in spite of all of this.
Their hand is still smudged with the graphite. Physical proof that the initial sketch still happened.
Their hand still has the muscle memory from learning to draw the man to begin with.
And, try as they might later, to unknowingly remove this evidence, to destroy the last physical proof that the Man did, in fact, exist...
They cannot wash it all away.
Where am I getting at with all of this? Allow me to explain.
PHASE 3: CHOICE
Have you ever thought about a world where everything is exactly the same...
Except you don't exist?
Everything functions perfectly without you...?
The Forgotten Man lives in that world every day of his life. He cannot be remembered. He cannot be thanked for any thing that he does.
And yet... DELTARUNE tells us that his choices still matter.
Because even if he is forgotten, even if he forgets what he's done himself, even if the people who he helps are unable- despite actively wanting to- recall his assistance or his presence...
They will never forget his kindness.
Noelle may not remember that someone helped her through her fear, as mundane as it may have been.
But she will remember that she got over it. She will carry the fact that she is no longer scared with her for the rest of her life.
Because even if you are forgotten, even if nothing you do will be seen, or heard, even if nobody will ever thank you for it...
You will leave your mark all the same.
Even if that mark is a pencil smudge on someone's hand, a pencil smudge they cannot consciously explain to themselves, and a mark that can never be washed away.
Kris does not understand what the pencil smudge means, they do not understand why their hand is still twitching, what that muscle memory is learned for... but the remnants still exist, proof of The Forgotten Man's influence. Proof that he existed. He still mattered.
Despite being someone whose choices by all means "shouldn't matter", The Forgotten Man still chooses to be who he is. He still chooses to be a cheery person who just wants to help, even as the world rejects him. Because even a forgotten person's choices matter. Even if you are never thanked for your actions, even if nobody even realizes it was you who helped them, they will never forget how the end result made them feel. And that makes all of the difference in the world.
You can never. wash it all. away. No one can.
I believe, roughly, that The Forgotten Man is basically Deltarune's thesis statement on choice imbued into one character.
What should you do in a world where your choices don't matter?
You shouldn't do anything different.
Because even if you are a Forgotten Man, your help is still always appreciated from those who you impact.
PHASE 4: GASTER SHARDS
This is perhaps a jump but I want to go a step further.
It is my belief, currently, that The Forgotten Man is inherently related to Gaster. Specifically, I believe, as I have believed for a long time now, that The Forgotten Man is a different "piece" of the doctor.
Obviously, these are both strange cryptid characters with potential emphasis on memory, who speak in all caps. Additionally, if you believe Gaster to be the Mysteryman, then an easy comparison can be made between the ch1 egg room and the gray door. I hope I don't need to spend too long explaining why Gaster and The Forgotten Man are linked.
What I specifically believe is that The Forgotten Man is a different piece of him. Gaster was "Shattered" across space and time, and we do know that wasn't just metaphorical.
My vision is such: The Forgotten Man is everything that Gaster- the "main" gaster, the one who speaks to us all the time relating to DELTARUNE, who I will henceforth refer to as "Gaster Prime"- is not.
Gaster Prime inherits Gaster's scientific side. He is an extremely big picture thinker, obsessed with HIS DELTARUNE. He wishes to CREATE A NEW FUTURE with us. He wants a personal connection with the player, he wants to change the world, he desperately needs to share his creation with everyone. Gaster Prime understands, deeply, What he is doing and How to accomplish it. But in the process, I believe that he maybe doesn't understand for Who the mission is being done or necessarily Why. Maybe on a technical level he understands "why" he is doing this, but I think he maybe doesn't understand it on a deep personal level. He sees DELTARUNE as the NEXT EXPERIMENT, as his project.
In stark contrast, The Forgotten Man is everything that Gaster Prime is not. He is, perhaps, the more emotional side. He is very scatterbrained and rambles about things that maybe don't matter. And he doesn't necessarily seem to understand What is occurring or How to help. The way the Valentines Letter is phrased kind of makes it seem like he's just going off of vibes. But what he does understand is the emotional motivation. He understands, deeply, that he wants to help someone. Even if he doesn't understand what that really entails, he just wants to help someone. He sees the small picture, he understands Why this matters and even if he doesn't know the exact details he feels this and understands "who" it matters for, even if he doesn't actually know specifically who that actually is.
Gaster is, at least in some respects, an author figure. I would personally argue that the way that the general community has come to understand this is flawed, but I think it's undeniable that he is, on at least some level, an author. I believe that The Forgotten Man is a foil to him in this way.
Gaster is a visionary. He's very big picture. He is the voice of the creator who wishes to see their work spread, to see how people treat it. He personally announces the release of every new DELTARUNE chapter, he talks to us at the end of Chapter 4 to aurafarm about HIS DELTARUNE, he's very in your face and he desires to create big change with our help. He's the extrinsic motivation. He is motivated by sharing his work with the world and seeing what the world thinks.
The Forgotten Man, on the other hand, is the more intrinsic side of creation in this metaphor. He does what he does not in the name of some massive vision, but simply because he believes it to be right. He understands the value of simply helping someone- one person- even if he is forgotten by the masses.
PHASE 5: A PERSONAL ANECDOTE
To attempt to give an actual example for what I am talking about, in hopes that it makes my point clearer, I'm going to share my own personal story.
Years ago, in 2020, there was this really niche youtube webseries I became really invested in. I'm not going to name it for a handful of reasons, but know it was very small scale- I think the channel only ever had, like, 20k subscribers.
Eventually, a discord server for this webseries was created, and I went there. (I was actually the very first person to join it...) I met a lot of people there.
The times changed, and eventually that webseries was cancelled and came to a premature end. The discord server was shut down, and all that remained was the splinter server that I had created for my friends in the main server.
I still talk to those friends. In fact, if it weren't for some of those friends, I don't think I would have been able to create The Disciples of Aren Geih. The other developer for our game is someone I only met because of this series.
I know people who are getting married. Because they met in the splinter server I made. Because of this niche webseries.
Needless to say, my life trajectory was completely altered. I know many people whose life trajectories were completely altered.
Because of this random youtube video series that nobody's ever heard of or cares about.
When the original creator set out to create this series... they could not possibly have known what they were doing. They could not possibly have anticipated how many lives would be positively impacted by their work. Even now, it's hard for me to really appreciate just how impactful of a decision it was for me to get invested in that series.
I will readily admit that I am biased here. It is entirely possible that my own opinions on creation, on art, and my own experiences, are clouding my judgement here.
But when I see The Forgotten Man... I see this. I see so much of this.
W.D Gaster, The "Prime" Gaster, the "main" gaster, in my eyes, is the side of the creator that yearns to be popular, to achieve success, to be "the Next Toby Fox" or whatever. To change the world, to be recognized, to be known.
But you don't need to be all that to make a difference. Even if you cannot be Gaster, even if you cannot be a world changing global phenomenon, even if you are forgotten... Your choices still matter. The things you create, the things you do, they still matter to someone. You can never know how many lives you will affect when you do something nice, when you help someone, when you create something. So even The Forgotten Man's choices matter.
As a creator, I often feel like these two sorts of philosophies are at odds. There is always a part of me who yearns to be seen, to have my work be recognized, to "succeed". But there is also the part of me who is okay with maybe not getting into the spotlight, because I know, I have seen, that even the most niche media of all can completely change someone.
The extrinsic desire to share vs the intrinsic desire to create.
Gaster Prime, the in your face visionary, and The Forgotten Man, the apparent afterthought.
PHASE 6: FURTHER THOUGHTS
I'd be remiss if I didn't acknowledge that this sort of theming appears elsewhere in DELTARUNE, and from Toby Fox.
Queen makes a point of pointing out that ANYONE can create a Dark Fountain if they are simply determined enough to do so. I cannot read this in a way that is not basically Toby Fox telling you, "Anyone can create good art".
Gerson's stories of Lord of the Hammer were only created because he simply wanted to entertain his children. A simple story, for such a simple purpose, spiraled into something well beyond him.
This is the majesty of words. And, in my eyes, the majesty of The Forgotten Man.
There is also the obligatory A Message from Toby Fox.
I am not going to recount the entire thing here, but I feel if you watch this (Which you should, if you haven't already), you will see how this relates to what I'm talking about.
There are likely more examples, but I hope you get the point.
CONCLUSION
As I said, maybe this reading is just my own biases and ideas clouding my judgement.
But I really do believe that The Forgotten Man truly does just want to help.
I really do truly believe that The Forgotten Man is, in a sense, DELTARUNE's commentary on choice distilled into one character.
And, I think I do believe that The Forgotten Man is meant to be a sort of foil to Gaster, a reminder that even if you feel your voice is not heard, you should still do what you do anyways.
speaking of ramb i can't help but feel like there's no way ramb is going to just get left in tvworld as a stone statue for the entire rest of the game. no idea what's going to happen to him next but for as horrid of a little man as he is, it doesn't really feel like that's just going to be it for him.
This is a theory that, previously, I felt very iffy on, but have come to believe more firmly over time. I'd like to thank my friend @mr---person for assisting with theorycrafting this and coming up with parts of this.
In order to get to the actual idea being proposed here, I have to get some context out of the way first, so without further ado, let's begin. This is a bit of a long one, but I think it's well worth it.
PHASE 1: The Sword Route matters
I'm going to start by establishing that the Sword Route is, for whatever reason, important.
You know, the route is weird. When I first learned it was called the "Sword Route", I was kind of put off by it. I felt like the name didn't make much sense. It's more of a sidequest if anything, right?
The main thing I am going to try and establish here is that the Sword Route is more than just an ominous foreshadowing side quest that results in us getting the Shadow Mantle- which is optional armor that merely makes certain fights easier.
See, the more I think about it, the more clear it becomes to me that it is actually that important. For starters- the name itself. It is called a Route. This alone is kind of significance. It's not the mantlequest, it's not the sword quest, it's not S Rank Progress or anything, it's... the Sword Route.
Further, after defeating the Mantleholder ("ERAM" as I will refer to them for the rest of this post for brevity), they declare "We both have work to do!" which somewhat insinuates that we will meet again.
There's also the /chapter5 stuff:
We cannot be absolutely certain, but it does seem that the size of the numbers indicate something akin to "Weird Route prominence". The 2 is massive because the Weird Route exists. The 4 is pretty small because ultimately the Weird Route only changes like, two scenes significantly. The 5 is larger, implying the Weird Route will cause more changes there.
What's fascinating, then, is that the 3 is as big as the 2. Given that the sound effect for clicking on the 3 is the sound that Eram makes, and the "Not applicable, but..." text from /chapter3, it seems to me that the reason the 3 is so big is because of the Sword Route.
If you ask me, the Sword Route on its own kind of doesn't even get close to Ch2's variations. Sure, it's something that affects the entire playthrough of the chapter, but, like, it doesn't really affect the main story at all, and seems pretty self contained on the surface.
It's also not even part of the Weird Route, nor the Crystal Path, strictly speaking... and yet, it's as big as the 2, which is... fascinating.
I think, though, the biggest slam dunk for the Sword Route being "Important" is, of all places, found in Jackenstien's fight.
See, one of the boards used for Jackenstien's attacks is this:
Those who have come before me have pointed out that the symbols in the background can be interpretted as symbols of key things in DELTARUNE.
There are two crowns, one of which highly resembles the chess symbol for a queen, there's a chess knight, a tower of some sort, a flower, and a dagger/sword.
Some have interpreted the Sword has a symbol for Chapter 6, but I don't actually think that's accurate.
A more niche interpretation of this is that it's actually a map.
You start on the King crown.
You can either pass through the Queen (the Purple line) or skip the Queen (the Cyan line).
You can optionally touch the Sword on the way to The Knight.
But, no matter what, you must pass the Knight, then the Tower, then the Flower, then collect the key.
If you don't allow line intersections, then the Sword also must come before The Knight. (You can of course go right and then down from The Knight, but this would require you to double back.)
When you recall that you actually skip Queen entirely on the Weird Route, I actually feel very confident in this interpretation. You can skip Queen, but you can't skip King, Knight, Titan, or the Ch5 boss.
I think, then, that the meaning of the sword is obvious- it's the Sword Route. You can optionally collect the Sword on the way to The Knight.
To me, the fact that the Sword Route is represented at all in this sort of symbolic representation of the game's general mapping is kind of massive. This, if nothing else, has me absolutely convinced The Sword Route does deserve its name, even if we cannot understand fully what is significant about it.
So, now that we can be pretty confident the Sword Route matters, I think we should start looking into everything we know about it in order to try and predict where it's going next.
PHASE 2: ERAM
This is going to be a re-treading of my prior remarks on Eram.
If you've already read my previous post about that, you can skip this section without issue. I actually go into more detail in that post, but I'm going to summarize my thoughts here. If you find this analysis interesting, please go check out that post, too.
Basically: I think the Eram fight is "about" the Kris/Player dynamic.
ERAM is able to do actual, real damage to Kris. They physically recoil whenever it happens. If Kris were trying to beat ERAM alone, they would surely fail, especially if they only had one try. One single hit would likely snowball into several more, and trying to perform well while actively being shocked would be effectively impossible. And, ultimately, barring potential Kris SAVE File shenanigans, one death is all Kris has- Eram kills you for real.
This is where the Player comes in- we are able to focus entirely on the game itself, learning the fight, issuing commands to Kris.
We, too, could not beat this fight alone- On some level, we need Kris to even play the game to begin with- While we are able to control HERO_SWORD outside of the game, it is ultimately Kris who (of their own accord!) plugs the Oddcontroller in for us, and we see with the Shelter that Kris is able to control HERO_SWORD somewhat- I don't think Kris could just set the controller down.
Ultimately, both parties need to lock in. Kris needs to lock in and push through the pain even though it hurts to execute the commands we're giving them, and we need to focus on the fight itself and funnel our inputs through Kris to attack the enemy.
This, then, is why Eram remarks about the burning red flames in Kris' eyes, because the only way we beat them is by working together.
Basically, I think the fight is about The Player and Kris. The fact that Kris is an autonomous person who has their own ideas and goals is, sometimes, a hindrance, and gets in our way when they do their own thing- but, at the same time, it can be a strength, as our ability to directly command our vessel seems rather limited. It's Kris who is able to plug in the oddcontroller, for instance. We can't actually direct Kris to use items in that way directly.
With this general interpretation of the Eram fight established, I'm going to take a further moment to look into the other character relevant for the Sword Route, who I think we tend to overlook: Ramb.
PHASE 3: RAMB ANALYSIS
Ramb, Ramb, Ramb... There's a lot we could say about Ramb, but I'll try to keep it brief and focused on what we're actually interested in today.
It's been suggested at times that Eram and Ramb are one and the same. I don't think this is the case.
The thing is...Ramb doesn't know, like, anything. To me, that's kind of what defines him. He talks big game, he talks about Freedom and Big Shots and about how the Original Game is everything Kris dreams of, and yet... he doesn't really seem to be connected to the deeper mysteries.
He doesn't have a Shadow Crystal, and while he talks big game about freedom, unlike with, say, Spamton, we don't really get the impression Ramb knows specifically what Kris is dealing with.
Ramb makes a big point of saying how he wants what's best for Kris, and that Kris will love the original game more... but is that even true?
Kris... doesn't exactly seem super enthused by the game. They look pale at times, especially when we kill the HERO_AXE and HERO_SCARF, and they kind of almost die to Eram.
Ramb also talks big game about how the Original Game has real freedom, and isn't just a linear quest from A to B... except, if anything, MANTLE is actually more linear than The Legend of Tenna.
Both games have explicit, defined objectives- in MANTLE, it's to GET STRONGER and kill every enemy to eventually obtain the item at the end. In TLOT, it's to collect the various items around the map to eventually get to the Physical Challenge.
The thing is, The Legend of Tenna actually does give you choice. There's always more objectives than are necessary. You only need 3 keys, but there are actually 4 (5 on replays!). You only need 3 pictures, but there are 4 you can get. You can choose which ones to get.
Comparatively, in MANTLE, you simply have to defeat every enemy. The only meaningful choice that Mantle provides you is that you can choose to die and stop playing.
This is, perhaps, a larger discussion, but my point is that Ramb is kind of just... wrong, about the original game being more free. And even if he was correct, Kris doesn't seem to be enjoying it that much.
I do actually think Kris wants to keep playing, but it's not because the game itself is Fun, but rather because Kris is searching for the Crystals and likely believes that this may lead to one. (There's more I could say on this but I don't have the time to.)
It's also quite clear I think that Ramb doesn't know anything about what's really going on backstage.
For starters, there's no reason to believe Ramb gave Kris the OddController. Surely he would have taken credit for giving it to us, since he prides himself on doing what's best for Kris. Also, he was keeping watch for Tenna.
Further, after Board 2, he denies anyone else being Backstage, and seems confused when Kris asks:
Which, sure, could be him lying, but I really don't think he is.
In general, while Ramb does want to help Kris, I think it's quite clear he doesn't really understand the greater ramifications of what Kris is dealing with. I really don't think Ramb knows what the Shadow Crystals are, and I really can't see him being, say, Eram in secret. Eram seems way too knowledgeable in a way Ramb simply isn't.
What is perhaps the most interesting about Ramb, though, is what happens to him at the end of the route. For the third Board, Ramb is almost fully petrified.
He asks us to push him out of the way because he can't move, and we carry on. This is actually really emphasized. There's like a whole animation of him being pushed and everything.
Toby could have just had him already be in position for us to walk past, or something, but, no, he's in the way and must be pushed.
What is fascinating, then, is that... he's not there anymore when we're done.
He's just gone. No trace. This is never explained. There is only one piece of information we are given, and I want to spend some time specifically on this point, because it's very important.
PHASE 4: WTF HAPPENED TO RAMB???
No, seriously, what? He's just gone. In the normal route, he's petrified in his little booth, but, in the Sword Route, he just entirely disappears.
The only piece of information we're given is from this Rabbick NPC in the backstage area:
This Rabbick claims to have seen something relating to Ramb, but gets sidetracked by Kris' appearance, questioning that they just went past.
I have seen many interpretations of this line, with some people suggesting that HERO_SWORD killed Ramb as they left. This is a bit questionable, since surely the Rabbick would be terrified of Kris if they just saw "Kris" kill Ramb, but, there's something much more important here I seldom see talked about.
How did this Rabbick even see anything?
I don't have a good map of the area, so forgive me for the bad quality here, but, remember:
Ramb is a statue over at the X. The Rabbick is out in the hall.
How did this Rabbick see anything relating to Ramb?
They're in different rooms. There's like, 2 corners between them, and a closed door, and the Rabbick is down the hall. How did they see something relating to Ramb, especially when it is explicitly told (and shown) to us that Ramb actively cannot move.
I think the implication simply has to be that he was taken. He was kidnapped. Something moved him. There's really no other way to slice it. The question is... why? Who would do this?
This is where we leave the realm of grounded speculation and have to "live a little" so to speak. I might lose you here, but please, hear me out.
PHASE 5: THE ERAMB AGENDA
I am going to propose the following:
Eram is, on some level, some sort of spirit that requires a host
It was originally using the Shadow Mantle as its host when we find it in Chapter 3.
After we defeat Eram, it needs a new vessel.
It chooses Ramb as its new target, stealing him in the process. Eramb.
This is generally unsubstantiated, but I think it actually makes a lot of sense.
For starters: The Eram boss we fight is purely referred to as "Shadow Mantle" in the game. Not, like, MantleHolder, they're just Shadow Mantle. It's arguable how much we should read into this, but given that the speaker says they're "holding" the mantle, a direct interpretation of the mantle itself being alive feels weird. However, if we're saying the Mantle is being puppeteered or otherwise controlled, this makes more sense.
Secondly: Why is Ramb a plugboy? It's a strange design choice. I suppose it's relevant to his backstory of specifically not being a typical toy, but it's a bit of an oddity. Werewires/plugboys have the recurring theme of being controlled, which feels perfect for this kind of narrative.
It could just be nothing, but it feels fascinating to me that Ramb is specifically a species known for having a second, stronger transformation they can be turned into when controlled by something else.
Thematically, I think this also has a lot of potential as well. If we were to do battle with this were-Eramb form as a 1v1, then Eramb kind of functions as a parallel to Kris.
Kris and The Player vs Ramb and Eram.
The difference being, of course, that at this point so late in the story, Kris and The Player will likely be allies, whereas Ramb is the biggest Kris fan of all time and would do anything in his power to resist and help them. If you buy into the Eram analysis from earlier, this is a direct extension of what the Eram fight was already doing in my eyes.
In a sense, Eramb I think would be a 'dark' reflection of what we could do with Kris, forcing them to act against their will- the sort of thing we actually do do in the Weird Route.
Additionally, consider that Ramb would almost certainly be using Electric Attacks in this form.
And, well, wouldn't you know it, but there's an unused armor called the Sky Mantle that provides resistance to Elec/Holy attacks:
It's stats are kind of... abysmal, but 50% resist to Elec would probably be worth it in a fight like this, especially a 1v1 with Kris. Plus, who knows, if it does get used, it could easily be rebalanced. It feels fitting to me to use another elemental mantle against Eram when it was our defeat of Eram that provided us with the Shadow Mantle to begin with.
Overall, I think the idea of Eram using Ramb as a vessel for a rematch later on is fitting enough thematically and Could work...
PHASE 5.5: MANOR SIDE THOUGHT
I simply must continue my Holiday Manor Chapter 6 Agenda, and point out that Eram's "Secret Hiding Place" is specifically within the Ice Palace. It could make sense, then, that we cross paths with Eram once more in Chapter 6 if the Manor Dark World conspiracy pans out....
PHASE 6: THE TRUTHNUKE
I was already well aware of the Wer-Eramb agenda before, but I didn't consider it that likely. It was a fun idea, and while I hadn't heard the player specific arguments before, it felt like it was missing something.
But, you see, I have come to a horrifying realization. A realization that makes me unreasonably confident that it's happening. Maybe it's nothing, maybe I'm reading into things too much, but this final detail is the one that made me convinced I absolutely had to make this into a longer post.
The Freedom Motif.
It's in Jevil's, Spamton's, and Gerson's music. This makes sense. Further, for every battle with the Freedom Motif, the flavor text "The air crackles with freedom", or some variation, is part of the fight.
It is worth noting that The Knight lacks both the Freedom Motif and this flavor text, suggesting the two are indeed linked. It's not just cute phrasing- they're connected, or perhaps even somehow the same.
There is another instance of this sort of language being used, and it's with the Sound of Justice, the strange Gerson statue we do battle with in the Second Sanctuary.
This time, it's "The air crackles with sound". This makes sense, since the Sound of Justice is directly connected to Gerson, who is a secret boss, but the Sound of Justice itself is not a secret boss.
But...
Wouldn't you know it?
There is one other instance in this game of the game saying the air crackles with something.
And, of all places... it's when you use Susie's ACT against Werewerewire.
Look.
I was aware that this existed for a long time now.
But I always wrote it off as a coincidence. But when you consider it in the context of Eramb, it feels to me like a slam dunk. You can argue that this isn't actually flavor text, per se, but rather narration describing the effects of an ACT- but honestly, I don't care. This, to me, is the nail in the coffin, a detail hidden in plain sight.
And when you actually look into Werewerewire more... You start to see something else.
Werewerewire specifically is a Werewire that has absorbed the wire- fused with that which controls it- to become stronger.
It. Became. Stronger.
And, regular Werewire's check, too, how is that described?
It's sleepwalking through a nightmare. "Nightmare" is used in relation to certain assets relating to the mantle fight, and while this may just be a reference to the Links Awakening fight of comparable nature and name, "ERAM" itself is just "MARE" backwards. I think a connection between Nightmares and Eram is pretty solid.
CONCLUSION
Look. I'm sorry. I've seen the light. It's just happening. I can't un-see it. You can say that this isn't that strong of a connection, you can say it's a coincidence, but...
The way the Sword Route itself is clearly more important than we might think?
The way Ramb just completely disappears, with the circumstances being specific enough to where we can be reasonably certain he was taken?
The fact that Ramb is specifically a darkner type known for being controlled by other things?
The fact that the ultimate form of said Darkner literally references the air crackles with freedom, and has SWORD-Route/Weird-Route style language?
The fact that doing this would perfectly follow up what, in my eyes, the overall thematic purpose of the Eram fight is?
This is a theory that, previously, I felt very iffy on, but have come to believe more firmly over time. I'd like to thank my friend @mr---person for assisting with theorycrafting this and coming up with parts of this.
In order to get to the actual idea being proposed here, I have to get some context out of the way first, so without further ado, let's begin. This is a bit of a long one, but I think it's well worth it.
PHASE 1: The Sword Route matters
I'm going to start by establishing that the Sword Route is, for whatever reason, important.
You know, the route is weird. When I first learned it was called the "Sword Route", I was kind of put off by it. I felt like the name didn't make much sense. It's more of a sidequest if anything, right?
The main thing I am going to try and establish here is that the Sword Route is more than just an ominous foreshadowing side quest that results in us getting the Shadow Mantle- which is optional armor that merely makes certain fights easier.
See, the more I think about it, the more clear it becomes to me that it is actually that important. For starters- the name itself. It is called a Route. This alone is kind of significance. It's not the mantlequest, it's not the sword quest, it's not S Rank Progress or anything, it's... the Sword Route.
Further, after defeating the Mantleholder ("ERAM" as I will refer to them for the rest of this post for brevity), they declare "We both have work to do!" which somewhat insinuates that we will meet again.
There's also the /chapter5 stuff:
We cannot be absolutely certain, but it does seem that the size of the numbers indicate something akin to "Weird Route prominence". The 2 is massive because the Weird Route exists. The 4 is pretty small because ultimately the Weird Route only changes like, two scenes significantly. The 5 is larger, implying the Weird Route will cause more changes there.
What's fascinating, then, is that the 3 is as big as the 2. Given that the sound effect for clicking on the 3 is the sound that Eram makes, and the "Not applicable, but..." text from /chapter3, it seems to me that the reason the 3 is so big is because of the Sword Route.
If you ask me, the Sword Route on its own kind of doesn't even get close to Ch2's variations. Sure, it's something that affects the entire playthrough of the chapter, but, like, it doesn't really affect the main story at all, and seems pretty self contained on the surface.
It's also not even part of the Weird Route, nor the Crystal Path, strictly speaking... and yet, it's as big as the 2, which is... fascinating.
I think, though, the biggest slam dunk for the Sword Route being "Important" is, of all places, found in Jackenstien's fight.
See, one of the boards used for Jackenstien's attacks is this:
Those who have come before me have pointed out that the symbols in the background can be interpretted as symbols of key things in DELTARUNE.
There are two crowns, one of which highly resembles the chess symbol for a queen, there's a chess knight, a tower of some sort, a flower, and a dagger/sword.
Some have interpreted the Sword has a symbol for Chapter 6, but I don't actually think that's accurate.
A more niche interpretation of this is that it's actually a map.
You start on the King crown.
You can either pass through the Queen (the Purple line) or skip the Queen (the Cyan line).
You can optionally touch the Sword on the way to The Knight.
But, no matter what, you must pass the Knight, then the Tower, then the Flower, then collect the key.
If you don't allow line intersections, then the Sword also must come before The Knight. (You can of course go right and then down from The Knight, but this would require you to double back.)
When you recall that you actually skip Queen entirely on the Weird Route, I actually feel very confident in this interpretation. You can skip Queen, but you can't skip King, Knight, Titan, or the Ch5 boss.
I think, then, that the meaning of the sword is obvious- it's the Sword Route. You can optionally collect the Sword on the way to The Knight.
To me, the fact that the Sword Route is represented at all in this sort of symbolic representation of the game's general mapping is kind of massive. This, if nothing else, has me absolutely convinced The Sword Route does deserve its name, even if we cannot understand fully what is significant about it.
So, now that we can be pretty confident the Sword Route matters, I think we should start looking into everything we know about it in order to try and predict where it's going next.
PHASE 2: ERAM
This is going to be a re-treading of my prior remarks on Eram.
If you've already read my previous post about that, you can skip this section without issue. I actually go into more detail in that post, but I'm going to summarize my thoughts here. If you find this analysis interesting, please go check out that post, too.
Basically: I think the Eram fight is "about" the Kris/Player dynamic.
ERAM is able to do actual, real damage to Kris. They physically recoil whenever it happens. If Kris were trying to beat ERAM alone, they would surely fail, especially if they only had one try. One single hit would likely snowball into several more, and trying to perform well while actively being shocked would be effectively impossible. And, ultimately, barring potential Kris SAVE File shenanigans, one death is all Kris has- Eram kills you for real.
This is where the Player comes in- we are able to focus entirely on the game itself, learning the fight, issuing commands to Kris.
We, too, could not beat this fight alone- On some level, we need Kris to even play the game to begin with- While we are able to control HERO_SWORD outside of the game, it is ultimately Kris who (of their own accord!) plugs the Oddcontroller in for us, and we see with the Shelter that Kris is able to control HERO_SWORD somewhat- I don't think Kris could just set the controller down.
Ultimately, both parties need to lock in. Kris needs to lock in and push through the pain even though it hurts to execute the commands we're giving them, and we need to focus on the fight itself and funnel our inputs through Kris to attack the enemy.
This, then, is why Eram remarks about the burning red flames in Kris' eyes, because the only way we beat them is by working together.
Basically, I think the fight is about The Player and Kris. The fact that Kris is an autonomous person who has their own ideas and goals is, sometimes, a hindrance, and gets in our way when they do their own thing- but, at the same time, it can be a strength, as our ability to directly command our vessel seems rather limited. It's Kris who is able to plug in the oddcontroller, for instance. We can't actually direct Kris to use items in that way directly.
With this general interpretation of the Eram fight established, I'm going to take a further moment to look into the other character relevant for the Sword Route, who I think we tend to overlook: Ramb.
PHASE 3: RAMB ANALYSIS
Ramb, Ramb, Ramb... There's a lot we could say about Ramb, but I'll try to keep it brief and focused on what we're actually interested in today.
It's been suggested at times that Eram and Ramb are one and the same. I don't think this is the case.
The thing is...Ramb doesn't know, like, anything. To me, that's kind of what defines him. He talks big game, he talks about Freedom and Big Shots and about how the Original Game is everything Kris dreams of, and yet... he doesn't really seem to be connected to the deeper mysteries.
He doesn't have a Shadow Crystal, and while he talks big game about freedom, unlike with, say, Spamton, we don't really get the impression Ramb knows specifically what Kris is dealing with.
Ramb makes a big point of saying how he wants what's best for Kris, and that Kris will love the original game more... but is that even true?
Kris... doesn't exactly seem super enthused by the game. They look pale at times, especially when we kill the HERO_AXE and HERO_SCARF, and they kind of almost die to Eram.
Ramb also talks big game about how the Original Game has real freedom, and isn't just a linear quest from A to B... except, if anything, MANTLE is actually more linear than The Legend of Tenna.
Both games have explicit, defined objectives- in MANTLE, it's to GET STRONGER and kill every enemy to eventually obtain the item at the end. In TLOT, it's to collect the various items around the map to eventually get to the Physical Challenge.
The thing is, The Legend of Tenna actually does give you choice. There's always more objectives than are necessary. You only need 3 keys, but there are actually 4 (5 on replays!). You only need 3 pictures, but there are 4 you can get. You can choose which ones to get.
Comparatively, in MANTLE, you simply have to defeat every enemy. The only meaningful choice that Mantle provides you is that you can choose to die and stop playing.
This is, perhaps, a larger discussion, but my point is that Ramb is kind of just... wrong, about the original game being more free. And even if he was correct, Kris doesn't seem to be enjoying it that much.
I do actually think Kris wants to keep playing, but it's not because the game itself is Fun, but rather because Kris is searching for the Crystals and likely believes that this may lead to one. (There's more I could say on this but I don't have the time to.)
It's also quite clear I think that Ramb doesn't know anything about what's really going on backstage.
For starters, there's no reason to believe Ramb gave Kris the OddController. Surely he would have taken credit for giving it to us, since he prides himself on doing what's best for Kris. Also, he was keeping watch for Tenna.
Further, after Board 2, he denies anyone else being Backstage, and seems confused when Kris asks:
Which, sure, could be him lying, but I really don't think he is.
In general, while Ramb does want to help Kris, I think it's quite clear he doesn't really understand the greater ramifications of what Kris is dealing with. I really don't think Ramb knows what the Shadow Crystals are, and I really can't see him being, say, Eram in secret. Eram seems way too knowledgeable in a way Ramb simply isn't.
What is perhaps the most interesting about Ramb, though, is what happens to him at the end of the route. For the third Board, Ramb is almost fully petrified.
He asks us to push him out of the way because he can't move, and we carry on. This is actually really emphasized. There's like a whole animation of him being pushed and everything.
Toby could have just had him already be in position for us to walk past, or something, but, no, he's in the way and must be pushed.
What is fascinating, then, is that... he's not there anymore when we're done.
He's just gone. No trace. This is never explained. There is only one piece of information we are given, and I want to spend some time specifically on this point, because it's very important.
PHASE 4: WTF HAPPENED TO RAMB???
No, seriously, what? He's just gone. In the normal route, he's petrified in his little booth, but, in the Sword Route, he just entirely disappears.
The only piece of information we're given is from this Rabbick NPC in the backstage area:
This Rabbick claims to have seen something relating to Ramb, but gets sidetracked by Kris' appearance, questioning that they just went past.
I have seen many interpretations of this line, with some people suggesting that HERO_SWORD killed Ramb as they left. This is a bit questionable, since surely the Rabbick would be terrified of Kris if they just saw "Kris" kill Ramb, but, there's something much more important here I seldom see talked about.
How did this Rabbick even see anything?
I don't have a good map of the area, so forgive me for the bad quality here, but, remember:
Ramb is a statue over at the X. The Rabbick is out in the hall.
How did this Rabbick see anything relating to Ramb?
They're in different rooms. There's like, 2 corners between them, and a closed door, and the Rabbick is down the hall. How did they see something relating to Ramb, especially when it is explicitly told (and shown) to us that Ramb actively cannot move.
I think the implication simply has to be that he was taken. He was kidnapped. Something moved him. There's really no other way to slice it. The question is... why? Who would do this?
This is where we leave the realm of grounded speculation and have to "live a little" so to speak. I might lose you here, but please, hear me out.
PHASE 5: THE ERAMB AGENDA
I am going to propose the following:
Eram is, on some level, some sort of spirit that requires a host
It was originally using the Shadow Mantle as its host when we find it in Chapter 3.
After we defeat Eram, it needs a new vessel.
It chooses Ramb as its new target, stealing him in the process. Eramb.
This is generally unsubstantiated, but I think it actually makes a lot of sense.
For starters: The Eram boss we fight is purely referred to as "Shadow Mantle" in the game. Not, like, MantleHolder, they're just Shadow Mantle. It's arguable how much we should read into this, but given that the speaker says they're "holding" the mantle, a direct interpretation of the mantle itself being alive feels weird. However, if we're saying the Mantle is being puppeteered or otherwise controlled, this makes more sense.
Secondly: Why is Ramb a plugboy? It's a strange design choice. I suppose it's relevant to his backstory of specifically not being a typical toy, but it's a bit of an oddity. Werewires/plugboys have the recurring theme of being controlled, which feels perfect for this kind of narrative.
It could just be nothing, but it feels fascinating to me that Ramb is specifically a species known for having a second, stronger transformation they can be turned into when controlled by something else.
Thematically, I think this also has a lot of potential as well. If we were to do battle with this were-Eramb form as a 1v1, then Eramb kind of functions as a parallel to Kris.
Kris and The Player vs Ramb and Eram.
The difference being, of course, that at this point so late in the story, Kris and The Player will likely be allies, whereas Ramb is the biggest Kris fan of all time and would do anything in his power to resist and help them. If you buy into the Eram analysis from earlier, this is a direct extension of what the Eram fight was already doing in my eyes.
In a sense, Eramb I think would be a 'dark' reflection of what we could do with Kris, forcing them to act against their will- the sort of thing we actually do do in the Weird Route.
Additionally, consider that Ramb would almost certainly be using Electric Attacks in this form.
And, well, wouldn't you know it, but there's an unused armor called the Sky Mantle that provides resistance to Elec/Holy attacks:
It's stats are kind of... abysmal, but 50% resist to Elec would probably be worth it in a fight like this, especially a 1v1 with Kris. Plus, who knows, if it does get used, it could easily be rebalanced. It feels fitting to me to use another elemental mantle against Eram when it was our defeat of Eram that provided us with the Shadow Mantle to begin with.
Overall, I think the idea of Eram using Ramb as a vessel for a rematch later on is fitting enough thematically and Could work...
PHASE 5.5: MANOR SIDE THOUGHT
I simply must continue my Holiday Manor Chapter 6 Agenda, and point out that Eram's "Secret Hiding Place" is specifically within the Ice Palace. It could make sense, then, that we cross paths with Eram once more in Chapter 6 if the Manor Dark World conspiracy pans out....
PHASE 6: THE TRUTHNUKE
I was already well aware of the Wer-Eramb agenda before, but I didn't consider it that likely. It was a fun idea, and while I hadn't heard the player specific arguments before, it felt like it was missing something.
But, you see, I have come to a horrifying realization. A realization that makes me unreasonably confident that it's happening. Maybe it's nothing, maybe I'm reading into things too much, but this final detail is the one that made me convinced I absolutely had to make this into a longer post.
The Freedom Motif.
It's in Jevil's, Spamton's, and Gerson's music. This makes sense. Further, for every battle with the Freedom Motif, the flavor text "The air crackles with freedom", or some variation, is part of the fight.
It is worth noting that The Knight lacks both the Freedom Motif and this flavor text, suggesting the two are indeed linked. It's not just cute phrasing- they're connected, or perhaps even somehow the same.
There is another instance of this sort of language being used, and it's with the Sound of Justice, the strange Gerson statue we do battle with in the Second Sanctuary.
This time, it's "The air crackles with sound". This makes sense, since the Sound of Justice is directly connected to Gerson, who is a secret boss, but the Sound of Justice itself is not a secret boss.
But...
Wouldn't you know it?
There is one other instance in this game of the game saying the air crackles with something.
And, of all places... it's when you use Susie's ACT against Werewerewire.
Look.
I was aware that this existed for a long time now.
But I always wrote it off as a coincidence. But when you consider it in the context of Eramb, it feels to me like a slam dunk. You can argue that this isn't actually flavor text, per se, but rather narration describing the effects of an ACT- but honestly, I don't care. This, to me, is the nail in the coffin, a detail hidden in plain sight.
And when you actually look into Werewerewire more... You start to see something else.
Werewerewire specifically is a Werewire that has absorbed the wire- fused with that which controls it- to become stronger.
It. Became. Stronger.
And, regular Werewire's check, too, how is that described?
It's sleepwalking through a nightmare. "Nightmare" is used in relation to certain assets relating to the mantle fight, and while this may just be a reference to the Links Awakening fight of comparable nature and name, "ERAM" itself is just "MARE" backwards. I think a connection between Nightmares and Eram is pretty solid.
CONCLUSION
Look. I'm sorry. I've seen the light. It's just happening. I can't un-see it. You can say that this isn't that strong of a connection, you can say it's a coincidence, but...
The way the Sword Route itself is clearly more important than we might think?
The way Ramb just completely disappears, with the circumstances being specific enough to where we can be reasonably certain he was taken?
The fact that Ramb is specifically a darkner type known for being controlled by other things?
The fact that the ultimate form of said Darkner literally references the air crackles with freedom, and has SWORD-Route/Weird-Route style language?
The fact that doing this would perfectly follow up what, in my eyes, the overall thematic purpose of the Eram fight is?
actually, since i've been talking about this just recently – i'm sort of curious on how the consensus on gaster's relationship to the skeleton brothers has changed over time?
do you think w.d. gaster...
... is the father of the skeleton brothers in a "mundane" way.
... created the skeleton brothers in a science experiment.
... is another skeleton brother.
... is the skeleton brothers' grandfather (like grandpa semi.)
... has no familial relation to the skeleton brothers.
Consider…(from that one blog post Toby did while rp’ing as sans)
EDIT: Looking at some of the reblogs and current polling, I’m a bit confused on why the sentiment that Gaster isn’t related to the bros considering the MysteryMan door is *straight* out of the Skeleton’s house and we know there’s another family member related to Sans and Papyrus alluded to in Papyrus’s concept art page.
My best explanation of our newest resident freak; Ramb.
Character analysis, loose ends, and questions.
I hope you like long winded “under the cut” posts about the obscure lore of irrelevant side characters.
(don't worry, I'm adhd, there's pictures and gifs.)
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This is both an outlet for me to yell my thoughts and emotions about a fictional British power strip into the void, and an explanation on what the fuck happened to me for the people who followed me for gaster (sorry to those people, btw :’))
This will be divided into sections so that if you're specifically interested in one topic about him, then you could just skip to it! :]
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The sections are:
First impressions; sword-route first timers VS casual players
Character analysis
The matter of ERAM.
Red flags (the red stands for “is this the secret boss?”)
Red flags 2 (the red stands for “is he okay”)
He's just a red herring, right? (well…)
What he is in this story, and will he be more? (Conclusion)
First impressions; sword route first timers VS casual players.
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This section will go over what you'd see from him on a standard run, and won't go too into analysis. It's mainly here if you aren't very familiar with his appearances in the game or need a refresher!
Feel free to skip to Character Analysis if you think this section will be redundant for you :]
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(I really wanted to have this section be a part of the full post, but it's. Almost half of the entire thing. Also it ate up the 30 images limit.)
(So here, I posted it separately! Have a read through it if you wanna! <3)
So… we sure do learn a lot about this random guy, huh?
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First off, you’ve probably noticed that he’s very contradictory;
He’s caring and kind towards Kris, but he fully believes his intuition about them, and never thinks he might be wrong and should hear them out (although, with how much he’s shown to care about them, I'm sure that if Kris could and would speak out, he’ll listen to them. But they can’t, because of us)
He's extremely confident, overly self assured, to the point of getting perceived as egotistical by the other darkners, but he doesn't think of himself that highly, equating himself to his light world counterpart many times as if he isn't a person now, and being fully willing to give his life up for kris.
He’s said to be condescending to others, at least at first, but we’ve only seen kindness and care from him, probably because we’re talking to him as Kris. But his jokes and down to earth attitude seem integral to his character, and we know he didn't do anything worse than just look out for Kris.
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These contraindications are a part of why he seems so shady to people, how can he be all these things at once? He has to be lying.
But this is just being a complicated person, like everyone else. And if you'll continue reading you’ll see that these inconsistencies actually make a lot of sense :] i’ll try my best to go through everything!
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(this segment is a bit all over the place since it’s the first one i wrote, but there's a summary at the end :])
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Let's start with how he confident he is about his beliefs;
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I saw someone say that he's acting in the way a parasocial fan would, and while I get where they're coming from what with him reiterating "I know what you really want" a lot-
but it feels less like he's putting them on a pedestal and objectifying them (in fact, he's doing the complete opposite and objectifying himself) and more like he's that well meaning, distant older relative who adored you when you were younger, and hasn't yet caught up to the fact that you grew up.
A person who used to know you, who knew the child you were, and their love for you from back then still blinds them to how you've changed.
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Mixed with his overconfidence, it makes sense that he’d believe that he knows Kris as well as they know themselves, while completely oblivious to his own blindness.
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But how can he be so self assured but still view himself as lowly?
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That's because we're playing as Kris! I doubt he’d talk about himself that way to anyone else.
Kris, and how they made him feel important, is the source of his confidence. He was loved and wanted by them, and so he feels like he owes them everything. Even his own life.
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Another interpretation is that his loneliness (which we will get to) lowered his self worth outside of being Kris's toy, and he feels like that is the only thing that gives him value.
So his personality isn't completely demolished, but he doesn't really invest much time or thought into himself as a person (evidenced by how he never talked about himself to the other darkners, only about Kris.)
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you'd think that a character with an inflated ego, like he’s said to have, would be self-absorbed and egotistical, but not him. He seems to diminish his presence when speaking with Kris, never going into detail about himself.
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But with how off putting his behaviour is, it's really hard to believe he has our best interest at heart- he constantly remarks how he knows what kris “truly wants”, and he really wants us to play the creepy game in the console room-
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We’ll get to the nature behind the game in a future segment (the matter of Eram), but for now let's just assume he really does want us to have fun;
His off putting behavior stems from a lack of tact. He's stuck in the memories of the Dreemurr family’s past, and he’s sure that Kris remembers him fondly. And maybe they would’ve, but I doubt they want to think about anything from their past considering… everything.
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Speaking of their past! We weren't there! We didn't see the playing and fun they had together, most of the time when we play Deltarune we don't even think about kris- we just play the game.
To us Ramb is a stranger being overly familiar- to Ramb, he’s catching up with an old friend, and he has no idea how much they’ve changed.
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Also, he doesn't force you to play the game! He doesn't even bring it up in the green room until after round 2, and only if you tell him you aren't having fun with Tenna. There's no pressure on you to finish all the levels if you only started one, either.
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(telling him that you are having enough fun with Tenna)
It's on our terms, and for our fun. He keeps going with it because we keep coming back. By his own admission, his purpose is to let us (Kris) have fun.
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Additionally, we can't ignore the silly. He's implied to be a jokester! The classics you've come to expect from these games; like sans, jevil, and even spamton, a little guy who makes funny faces and tells jokes.
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I also want to bring up his expressions; half of his sprites have that worrying, almost troubled expression, that gives the things he says a caring and gentle feeling. It's a part of the over-familiarity. From someone you know this would be fine, but he’s this way with us from the second we meet him.
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Now, let's bring up this bit of dialogue from before you start the second level of the mantle game:
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The first time I read this dialogue I was stun locked for a moment. He could've just admitted to feeling lonely. He could've just outright said it, it wouldn't feel out of place in this story, Tenna admitted to it multiple times even. But Ramb didn't.
Instead, he said that if after the fountain is sealed, then if Kris felt like waking up their house again then they could. If they wanted that to happen.
Fine, weird line from him, he's got plenty.
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"Sorry Kris. I don't know what I was saying there. Just go and enjoy the games, eh? cheers."
He felt embarrassed about admitting to feeling lonely! He always puts Kris first before anything else, and for a moment, he didn't. For a moment he mentioned that he'd like it if Kris came back after this was all over. That was weird, I'm sorry for saying that.
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From this we can learn that he really does feel alone. His one friend will be gone soon, and that's okay, they have to leave. But it’d be nice if they came back one day. not that he’s comfortable with admitting this to us.
(This is also a hint that he knows Kris created the fountain!)
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His similarities to Tenna :
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Looking at the core of their characters, Ramb was written as almost another version of what Tenna is. They both care about Kris so much, they’re both lonely, ageing and growing obsolete and they know it. The differences are in how they take it.
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Tenna is trying his best to cling to the past in fear of being thrown away, he's trying to prove to Kris that he's useful, fun, and could give them what they've been missing. This joyous nostalgic feeling they left in their childhood alongside everything that made them happy.
Throughout this entire chapter Tenna is trying to drag Kris back to that, back to him. He forces it on them when they don't comply, and fights them when they want to leave.
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and yes a part of that is because of the knight's promise, that if he’ll do this he’ll be adored again. But to ignore the part of his motivation that's specific to Kris and the Dreemurr family as a whole would be a disservice to his character. He cares about Kris and he misses them so much, he misses what he was to them back when they needed him. He wants them to need him again.
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Meanwhile Ramb is just as aware of his growing obsolescence as tenna is, but he seems to accept it. knowing that eventually, naturally, they’ll all be worthless.
It's a part of his role as a secret boss red herring (which I will elaborate on in its own section), a darkner who mentions their own insignificance and nihilistically accepts it naturally makes us wonder what else they're thinking about and what they know.
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Ramb accepts his approaching end and decides to go out with a bang. He sets up another game like the ones they loved playing and gives them the option whether to actually play it or not.
Don't get me wrong, he absolutely clings to kris (or more like the memory of them as a child) just like Tenna does, but there's a difference in how they go about their emotions that sets them apart as characters, and makes it so understandable that they wouldn't be fond of each other.
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While Tenna is stuck in the past because his self worth is dependent on it, Ramb is stuck in the past because instead of trying to make new connections in the new place he was brought to, he clung to and still clings to the first and only person who showed him love.
Ramb is completely okay with becoming obsolete, while Tenna’s life spiraled because he couldn't handle it. Tenna is desperate and controlling (fits his position as this dark world’s ruler and also his deal with the knight), while Ramb only gives you one hint to get S-rank, and only if you tell him you think Tenna's games aren't fun.
Tenna is constantly second guessing himself and worrying over doing a good job, while ramb’s excessive confidence makes him 100% sure that he knows exactly what Kris wants, and that they’ll love the games he’s offering more than Tenna’s.
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They originate from the “same root” in a sense, but due to their different personalities, they’re complete opposites in the way they handle knowing they’re no longer as meaningful to their loved ones as they used to be.
Also, I'd feel remiss not to mention that Ramb quit his job while on a call with Tenna, then hung up on him.
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We don't talk about this enough me thinks. He's such a piece of shit sometimes lmfao
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I wish we got to see Ramb interacting with other people besides Kris, I think it would tell us a lot. Because he made so much of who he is about Kris, then of course his behavior would be one way with them, and different with others. How drastically it would change would say a lot about him as a person.
We did get it with Tenna a little, but he generally doesn't like him for reasons that seem to be unrelated to kris
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In conclusion:
To us (Kris), Ramb is a friendly, self-assured (if a little bit arrogant) guy.
He clearly cares about and loves Kris a lot, calling them luv at every opportunity and trying to better their experience in this dark world by giving them access to what he thinks is a better game than what they got.
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The things he says to Kris and his worrying expression give him a caring and gentle air, which can have the opposite effect and come off as too forward and overstep boundaries for a lot of people.
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He's acting overly familiar with Kris, remembering them fondly from their time together as lightner and toy, and he’s sure that Kris is on the same page as him.
And although we can't really know for sure, because Kris doesn't express their feelings or thoughts, we can assume that their bond fizzled out on Kris's end. because since the last time Ramb knew them, they’ve put everything that made them happy as a kid aside.
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He's extremely confident, believing himself to be the one who knows Kris the best out of anyone here, and he’s sure they’ll love the original game from before Tenna messed with it a lot more than what they got in his game show.
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Even though he’s very confident, and it's viewed as him having an ego by his peers, he's not egotistical. as his confidence stems from being loved by Kris, and believing himself to know them the best, not thinking that he’s the best, as would be assumed of a character with an “ego”.
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Additionally, despite his obvious confidence, he seems to have relatively low-self worth outside of being Kris's toy, equating himself to his lightworld form often and never elaborating on himself as the person he is now, to us or the other darkners.
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As time goes on we learn that he's deeply lonely, doesn’t have any friends or anyone that really likes him, and it has been that way for a while. Pretty much since he was brought to the dreemurr house.
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Despite how lonely he is, and how much of his life revolves around Kris, he never imposes himself on them. There’s no point in the game where we have to speak with him.
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We don't know much about his side in his relationships, but he specifically doesn't really care for his boss Tenna, and thinks he and his games are boring.
Maybe he never really wanted the job that was given to him to get rid of him, since he’s the first one to actively tell Tenna that he’s quitting. He then proceeds to hang up in his face.
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Despite knowing that Kris is the creator of his fountain, he doesn't worship them or objectify them as a god, nor does he treat Kris the way darkners created by the knight treat the knight, their creator, with fear and admiration.
He acts more like one of your detached older family members who don't yet understand that you grew up. (His self diminishing seems to stem from low self worth and not worship.)
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Additionally, Ramb seems to not really care about respecting authority, a trait that is rare for darkners.
like how he treats Kris like family and not authority, And how he gives us access to the original game against Tenna’s wishes. Although it's important to mention that he thinks of himself as lesser than Kris.
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He's fully willing to sacrifice himself for us, to give himself up completely, if there is a chance that his efforts will work and Kris will have fun.
And why they're not actually the same person (hear me out it makes ramb a better character.)
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I get why people are fond of it. Ramb being the person behind eram would be awesome and a cool twist for his character and add to his significance in the story.
And by all means! Go for it! It makes for an awesome visual and cool art!!
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But hear me out… when it comes to the intent of the story… narratively, it doesn't make any sense.
Sometimes kindness and seemingly well meaning actions in this game really are just that.
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Now before we begin, let's establish some things;
First of all; without anyone asking him to, Ramb has sacrificed a lot for Kris.
He gave up the opportunity to make any connections in the new place he was brought to, by always commenting on others and their work. This made him alienated from anyone he could've been friends with, because he staked everything he is and could’ve had on his purpose to his lightner.
In the path where you don't humor him, you end up learning how lonely he truly was, how no one could stand him, and how much his caring for and loving you alienated him, to the point of complete social isolation. To the point where he felt like he didn't belong where he was, and was already turning to stone on the inside a long time ago.
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His ostracization was mostly his doing, and it is rooted in caring.
(If there was any other reason that Ramb was outcasted, then the pippins who clearly disliked him wouldn't protect his image and would tell us.)
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And secondly; The mantle game changes with the insertion of the oddcontroller.
When you first turn on the console, the title screen comes up just like it does at the beginning of “The legend of Tenna”, Tenna’s version of the game. But no controller is connected and the console turns off. Leaving the room, we find the oddcontroller on the ground, it is said to have pink and yellow buttons.
When the oddcontroller is connected to the console, The game immediately glitches out and shows our soul, us, inside 8bit kris. That never happens in any other variation of the game.
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Everytime you play the game again, the title screen comes up like normal. Kris then connects the oddcontroller, the game glitches out, and shows us the soul. It seems that the thing causing the difference is the act of connecting the controller.
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Here are the main reasons i've seen for why people think Eram is Ramb:
Ramb is very off putting
They have similar names
Ramb really wants us to play his game, and it turns out to be a horrifying experience for kris
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Let's tackle em’!
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Ramb is very off putting.
That's by design! He’s supposed to evoke that feeling you get from distant family relatives who remember you from when you were younger, but you have no memory of them.
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Kris has been through a lot, we still don't know the exact events, but trauma is obvious and prevalent in their character. They've since put a lot of their joy aside. Their room is empty, they don't watch tv or play games anymore, they don't visit noelle, even just to play her piano, preferring the one in the hospital.
And Ramb is an old toy of Kris', from when they were a child. It wouldn't be unlikely that the last time they played with him was before they put their joys aside.
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Ramb would have no way of knowing everything that's gone on with Kris since they last saw each other, and he’d assume that their life’s just naturally continued without him, but remain sure that they still remember him fondly.
He views himself as your old friend, because that's what Kris and him were before, he doesn't know who Kris is anymore, and he has no idea.
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And on top of that, YOU as the player weren't there for it all- you didn't see Kris playing with Ramb, and you didn't see Ramb being happy to assist Kris in having fun. To you, Ramb is a stranger, and him acting overly familiar with you causes discomfort and unease.
And Ramb is only speaking with Kris, because he has no idea you're there controlling them.
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They have similar names
That they do, Eram and Ramb are only one letter apart. But does Ralsei having a name that's a 1 to 1 of Asriels, and even seemingly having similar personalities make them the same person? No, and I hope to god you don't still believe that. Please believe me when i say that Toby wouldn't put incest in his game.
Eram and Ramb are opposites. Ramb only wants Kris to have fun, while Eram is obsessed with making Kris suffer. Ramb wants us to play a game where we get to make choices, and Eram forces us to play the one route the oddcontroller allows for.
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(Also, stupidly, Eram isn't british)
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3. Ramb really wants us to play his game, and it turns out to be a horrifying experience for kris
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It's a little weird that Ramb tells us that this is a game where we decide what to do, but the only way to progress is through killing. Which is part of why people think he’s very sketchy and a liar.
But what if the original game, before the insertion of the oddcontroller, was exactly that? A game similar to undertale, where there are different paths you can take, where your choices determine the kind of game you play? A game where you CAN make choices?
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But with the oddcontroller, there’s only one path. only one option, a glitchy, game breaking option, the weird route.
I'd also like to bring up the name “odd controller”, in relation to what we do in the game and what that stands for- Odd is another word for weird.
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But sure, maybe Ramb was the one who put the odd controller in the hallway outside the console room, he is standing right outside the door after all. But if it's true that Ramb’s intention was for us to play the game with this controller, why not give it to us when we enter the room? We have to speak with him to enter anyway.
And why say that he “set up the game for us” if there's no controller connected? Just to wait a few seconds to leave it in the hallway?
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This is a story, fully written in advance. If the intention was for us to suspect or think this corrupt version of the game is what Ramb intended for us to play, why not have the oddcontroller already connected to the console? Then we as players would have no doubt that this experience was this character’s full intention.
That part, where you have to leave the room to find a controller that is different from the ones you're used to, seems to be there to separate Ramb from whoever wants us to play the mantle game’s version of the weird route.
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But hold on, what if Ramb is intentionally putting on a front, acting and lying to make us believe his two personas?
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…why? What would he gain from that? He already gets us curious enough to play the game as Ramb, why continue to put up a front even when he and Kris are completely alone, even at the very last moments of his life?
Speaking of which, how is he able to battle Kris as Eram when he’s shown to be almost fully stone, and unable to move himself enough to unblock the entry? To turn and look at us? How would he use a controller?
If he’s faking being stone too, then how? And what’s the reason? What does he gain?
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Also, if we are assuming he’s lying; then everything, his feelings, his character and his emotional issues, None of it was real. All that nuance, depth, character, It was all fake, a lie. For the plot twist that in fact he actually… thinks we're weird for enjoying the game?
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Narratively, it doesn't make sense. If he’s lying, why not reveal it? In his last moments with us, as Eram or Ramb, why not reveal that this entire time he just wanted us to suffer?
If he’s lying, then why are we repeatedly told, so many times, how lonely he was? How much he cared about Kris? Why is it said to us after he’s already gone, on the path where you don't even play his game, when the lie wouldn't matter?
The story doesn't benefit from the unclarity that this brings once Ramb and Eram are both already gone.
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I know that the main reason behind this theory is Ramb’s off-putting over familiarity, combined with the horrors the game harbours and how happy he is to show it to us.
But if you take his word that he really didn't see anyone come in (maybe whoever is behind Eram doesn't need to use the door), and look at the context of his life as this lonely guy suddenly seeing the god who gave him purpose as their toy, and brought him to life with the fountain, and understand that yeah, he’d be ecstatic.
Then him honestly looking out for Kris at every opportunity, even before he saw them again, makes a lot more sense than an unprovoked backstab.
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Eram has no issue with harming the real kris, both physically and emotionally. Before the fight begins, Eram taunts Kris, goes along with the game that's slowly changing from a standard rpg to a horror show about Kris's life and struggles.
If the player is on the weird route, they even accuse Kris of being a hypocrite, saying they’re blaming the soul for all the harm they caused, trying to feel better about themselves. And in the fight against them Kris takes real damage and can die.
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If Ramb were actually the one behind eram, then he was lying when he was looking out for what's best for Kris even when they weren't there… because? He alienated himself by constantly lying about caring for Kris… because??... and him letting himself die for us to continue having the fun he’s sure we're having… just to make fun of us- why??
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Remember that pippins who tells us all about how much ramb sucked and everyone hated him- If there was malice in Ramb’s intentions or behind his actions before we entered the dark world, that pippins would be the last person to hide it from us! Y’know, cus they hate him!!
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Ramb’s story is empty on purpose, it's supposed to be like this. It's supposed to give you the feeling of “this isn't all he is, right?” It's abnormally sad and I wish I could say that this is just me going overboard with my analysis of him, but this is literally just his actions and what we were told about him.
Ramb was written as the red herring for this chapter's secret boss, to me the twist about him was that after all of that he ended up to not be important, that after all of the hints and the winks, it turns out he doesn't know shit.
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Making him the person behind a character that clearly knows a lot and doesn't much care for Kris's well-being, erasing and warping the sincerity of everything he did, would take away from the gut punch that his last conversation with Kris or the explanation from that Pippins is trying to give us.
It would make for a hell of a twist, but is it worth it narratively? Does it make sense? Like no not at all. We're learning about this sad older guy trying to make the one person he’s sure still likes him happy no matter the cost, even if it costs him his life.
Just for a twist that he thinks they're weird for enjoying the games that he wanted them to play??
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So if Ramb isn't eram, who is?
I don't know, this post is about Ramb!!
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But I do have a guess that I'm rather confident about. I won't go into detail about it here cus i already derail this post at every opportunity, and also I want to write another dissertation of the mantle games specifically, separate from Ramb, so I'll save this for another time.
But in short, it’s Friend. And this was our first real look at them as a character and their role and purpose in this story.
Red flags (the red stands for “is this the secret boss?”)
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I'm sure that a large majority of first time players looked at this manlet going on and on about “freedom”, and immediately thought that he’ll be the secret boss. Since, y’know, that was by design!
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Ramb was written to tick all the boxes of a secret boss. he’s short, hinted at being knowledgeable about things he shouldn't be, “freedom”, constantly referring to kris by name, quoting both Jevil and Spamton, playing a role only outside the main story, hell even the fact that he speaks differently than the rest of the darkners-
We're meant to look at him and immediately assume that at some point we’ll fight him and get the shadow crystal. Just like we assumed we’ll seal the fountain at the end of the chapter, and get a light world segment before going back home, watch Kris rip out their soul, and roll credits.
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Chapter 3 throws all of that out the window! And Ramb is a part of it. We assumed we know the way secret bosses work and will play out for the rest of the game, a part of the “Deltarune formula” that we were so convinced of. But we were wrong!
The way chapter 3 flirts with it and then completely shatters it and our expectations of what will be is a part of why i love these games so much.
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When a player stumbles upon a petrified Ramb, the thought that they messed up the sequence that leads up to the secret boss might cross their mind. While a player who got to the end of the sword game and watched as Ramb disappeared after the shadow mantle was acquired might feel confused;
yeah i just finished a cool mini boss, but that's hardly a secret boss, and i didn't even get a shadow crystal. wasn't that the lead up to something with the little guy?
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And when the lord of screens is cleaved red by blade is when it all shatters- we’d assume that after the fight with Tenna, Ralsei and Susie will talk to him, he’ll want to come to our castle town, we seal the fountain, ect ect. But instead, he falls to the ground, unconscious, and we are faced with the knight.
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We don't get to seal the fountain, we don't get a light world segment, and we don't get to see Kris rip us out. We don't get a secret boss. Deltarune was never meant to be predicted!
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Ramb, as the character that he is, is a part of the aforementioned flirting with the concept of a formula. Cus we do get a weird little guy who's spouting nonsense and acting odd- but he's not the secret boss, because we don't get one this chapter.
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(you might say that the knight is the secret boss… but aren't those supposed to be like… secret? The battle with the knight is unavoidable, and CAN be beaten without the shadow mantle if you just don't get hit- so… it's just a regular battle like Tenna or Queen. Just an extremely tough one that you're meant to die to at the end.
If you survive for long enough you get a weapon and a crystal, but guys-
The fight isn’t hidden. It's unavoidable. It can be beaten even without the shadow mantle. The flavor text “The air crackles with freedom” doesn’t show up in the fight. The knight doesn't have the freedom leitmotif in its theme.
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Before the chapter came out I was lamenting on what “no mantle, no crystal.” means. I thought that we’d acquire the shadow mantle somehow and only then will the battle be able to trigger, like without it there wouldn't even be a fight! (Like how you can’t climb without the gear that jackenstein gives you.)
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I'm of the opinion that we shouldn't expect all the chapters to play out exactly the way we thought, not having a standard secret boss encounter this chapter was intentional, and there's no real reason to try and fit the knight or Eram into boxes they don't fit-
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So… what all this talk about Ramb as if he actually was the secret boss? If he truly is just a red herring gotcha moment side character npc, why the 16K words essay?
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As much as I want to keep my expectations grounded, there are certain things that don't fit the description of just “red herring”. I truly wish he was just that, and could be spared from the horrors of being a shadow crystal bearer, or being a significant character in this story (that never seems to be easy), and I could be spared from writing the rest of this.
But there are just too many loose ends, questions, information we were given for seemingly no reason- that make me wonder what Toby has in mind.
This section will go through and analyse the more emotional aspects of his character and what he is in this story. Less “why was he put here” and more “how does he feel about being put here”. The feels, if you will.
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Let’s start by bringing up the infamous roast session;
While we do learn a lot about Ramb when talking directly to him, we learn a whole lot more after he’s gone, from the random pippins that seems to stand in for the rest of the darkners that knew him.
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First of all, just the fact that we learn more about ramb from someone else rather than himself says a lot. I already mentioned it in the character analysis part, but he seems to never really focus on himself during our conversations with him, and would much rather talk about Kris and what they want and how they feel, in a way that is reminiscent of ralsei.
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One of the differences between them being that while ralsei is truly trying his best to look for kris through our inputs on their behavior, building them up and cheering us both on,
ramb, thanks to how confident he is, thinks he knows exactly what kris wants without second guessing himself for a second (until the very end)
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(he was somehow right? Which adds to how he was made to make people think he’ll be the secret boss because he knew Kris wanted “freedom”. but this is just his lucky assumption, and has to do with what games Tenna is allowing Kris to play, not how Kris wants to be free from our control. Ramb had no idea.)
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(not to even get into how the mantle games vs Tenna’s version of them are a meta commentary on Deltarune’s linear story and how breaking out of if and achieving “freedom” comes at a great cost for the characters, that is a WHOLE other conversation and we’re talking about power strip mental health right now not this-)
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Just for a second, I wanna bring up the fact that he's a plugboy. While yes the plugboys from chapter 2 do differ from each other visually, they’re all clearly the same darkner species, and they all resemble plug types that would be of the same, mostly american socket type.
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While Ramb is a European plug type. He’s fundamentally different. (Note how different Ramb looks to the other plugboys, and his smiling expression vs the original plugboys naturally ‘surprised’ look)
It's impossible to connect an American plug to this type of socket. What I'm trying to say is; he couldn’t connect with anyone.
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Back when I played chapter 3 for the first time and learned Ramb was from the library, I thought it was really weird. What, he was essentially kidnapped and no one in chapter 2 said anything?
No one mentioned a plug named “ramb”, not even talked about a purple plugboy who used to live here. Not even “a plugboy” who’s now gone. I shrugged it off as extremely light retconning, maybe he was written after chapter 2 was completed.
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But when I think about it now, it makes total sense. The reason he didn't seem to mind being taken from his original dark world, his home, the reason he adores Kris so much, and why no one in cyber world mentioned him or said anything about him being gone;
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it's because he didn't matter to anyone back there either. The first time he felt loved and wanted was as Kris's toy.
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Of course he'd get attached to them, I'm honestly surprised he isn't constantly imposing himself on us- there isn't a single point in the game where you have to talk to him, if you never choose to do that, you don't even learn his name.
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Similarly to Tenna, Ramb clung to the past, to that time in his life he felt happy and loved. He couldn't (or wouldn't) move on.
No one in Cyber world liked him, no one in the dreemurr house liked him, so he gave up. He no longer tried to make connections with new people. Instead of retaining who he is and living for himself, even if no one likes it, he let himself get stuck in the memories of being loved, once, a long time ago.
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Inside, he was probably stone already.
Back to the infamous roast session, specifically to the last thing that was said about him there;
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“Inside, he was probably stone already.”
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Have you ever seen a more obvious depression metaphor?
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In chapter 3, a darkner turning to stone was revealed to be connected to a mental and emotional state, and not just where the object is originally from, which to be honest, in retrospect makes a lot more sense.
(What if an object was somewhere it didn't belong when a fountain was created, then brought back to the place they belong, would they turn to stone just because they happen to be somewhere else first? Also turning to stone being more about feelings just fits these games doesn't it. anyway)
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One of the very first things that we learn about Ramb, straight from him, is how Kris and Asriel brought him to their house from the library, maybe around the time Noelle and Kris played make believe with other objects from there and the unused classroom.
But that's all we learn from him about why he's here and how he feels about it. Which is to say we learn nothing because he never elaborates about himself-
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Then, after he’s turned to stone, we learn from the pippins that after Ramb was brought here by kris, he cared about them so much that he made sure the others are thinking about them and what's best for them too, because to him their plans weren’t good enough for kris. He wanted the very best for them.
His fixation on Kris and his condescending attitude that was perceived as ego isolated him as he turned insufferable in their eyes.
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Tenna wanted to get rid of him, no one liked his humor, he rarely got any customers, and no one will even care that he’s gone. Other newcomers in the house fit in fine, while he never truly belonged. The pippins is relieved if you tell them that you don't wanna hear more about him.
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Turning to stone on the inside. Being stone as you still continue to live. A darkner turns to stone when they feel like they don't belong, when even if they try their hardest to fit in, they don't have a place that’s for them where they are. When their connections can't save them and they want to be somewhere else, someone else.
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Ramb felt like he didn't belong here so badly that the feeling manifested, turning him to stone from the moment the fountain opened, maybe even before.
It's depression. Moreover, it's like smiling depression- he never lets us see any of it, he smiles and is friendly with us, there's no reason to think anything is wrong until you learn more about his situation.
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Kinda reminds you of someone, right?
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“How about the usual?”
That joke should be familiar to true truck freaks;
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“i’ll take the usual.”
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It's the same joke Sans made when he first came to Grillby’s. The differences being that while sans told it as a first time customer, Ramb told it as a first time bartender. And of course, people laughed at Sans's joke, and immediately accepted him as the old timer he joked about being, while no one laughed with Ramb.
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The similarities between sans and Ramb are kinda like when you learn a new word and start seeing it everywhere;
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They're both shorties
They both mask their depression with humor and an unassuming, modest attitude
They both constantly smile
They both wink a lot
Both are in worlds they don't belong in
Both never go into detail about themselves
Both refer to the player character as a friend immediately
Both seem to build up all they are around someone else (Sans with Papyrus and Ramb with Kris)
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It's not that this implies they know each other or anything- the only thing these similarities tell me is that we’re given more about Ramb's personality and ‘vibe’ through a character he’s similar to and we're already familiar with.
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Like, what if sans didn't have papyrus constantly at his side? What if no one liked his jokes? What if he couldn't make friends? What if he didn't have the ability to control where he went? What if he felt truly, deeply, alone?
While their personalities and circumstances are obviously not identical, I think these similarities are very interesting.
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(Just for the sake of not mischaracterizing sans, we're in 2025 not 2016, I wanna clarify that I'm aware a big part of sans' pain stems from his inability to go anywhere outside Undertale as a universe (wherever or whatever “going back” means), but I was thinking more like. What if he was just stuck inside MTT resort, y’know?)
—-
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Implications that he doesn’t value himself as a person
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If you were suddenly face to face with the one person who ever liked you, after years of being apart, if under their gaze, you felt more appreciated as a person than you have in all the years since you've last seen them, what would you do?
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I'd hope to god your answer isn't anything close to what Ramb did.
Because this guy gave up on so much of his life for Kris, even before he saw them again, until he gave up his life for them completely.
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In his last moments with us, he continues to try and make sure Kris has fun.
Knowing he will soon turn to stone, as far he knows, forever, He still continues to try and please Kris.
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He’ll watch out for Kris for as long as he's conscious enough to see and speak.
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He sees his own uncooperative body not as a detriment to himself, but a bother for Kris, who now has to shove him out of the way, because he started to die before he could unblock the entry to the room.
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Instead of doing anything for himself before he fully turns to stone, he chooses to set up one last game for us. His smile never falters and he wishes us a fun time.
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I mentioned this before, but this part of his behavior is very reminiscent of Ralsei.
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Ralsei’s beliefs about himself and how much of a person he should be allowed to be finally started to get challenged in chapters 3 & 4, to the relief of everyone who knew he wasn't evil.
But before those beliefs started to get questioned by the game, he constantly allowed himself to be walked over, hurt, and ignored by everyone.
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The way he behaved was incredibly off putting, making a large portion of the community think he’s secretly the villain and will have a heel turn in the story where he backstabs us all- but it turns out he hid information from us because he views the knowledge he has as a burden. He doesn't want us to know what he knows because he cares about us.
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He’s okay with getting hurt, he’s okay with taking pain meant for us, protecting us from harm's way, because he doesn't yet view himself as a person worth protecting. He doesn't even view himself as a person.
When we learned this, suddenly all the oddities about him and the way he acted made sense. No one still believes he’s secretly evil.
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Ramb is similar in a way. He views himself as a darkner, an object, first, and a person second. He exists for his lightner, the kid who gave him purpose as a toy, an item of play and fun.
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He’s aware that in reality, he's just a power strip. and because he knows that while the lightners change, darkners don't, he understands that Kris views him as obsolete. He doesn't see himself as someone (something) worth saving.
His purpose, a darkners purpose, is to assist his lightner. His self proclaimed purpose is to let Kris have the fun they want. What he wants is irrelevant, he shouldn't even have needs or wants in the first place, there's no reason for it.
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It's okay if he’s dying. It's okay if he’s already stone on the inside. He keeps setting up the levels in the console room because we keep coming back to play, because we’re having fun. Whatever Ramb wants doesn't matter as much as Kris's fun does.
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While Ralsei thankfully has Susie and Kris by his side to constantly remind him that he matters, until the day he’ll hopefully fully believe it himself, Ramb is completely alone. He doesn't have anyone who cares about him, likes him, or would cry for him once he’s gone.
He hasn't yet realized, or maybe he’s never been told that he matters outside of his “role” as a darkner. And maybe he never will.
—--------
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No one will shed a tear for him
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This part may be a bit more speculative of me and not really something that's out right said, but it's important for me to mention
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Before you finish the mantle game and Ramb disappears, if you hug the hall in front of where he guarded the door, you walk through a hidden hallway and enter his stand.
You can watch Susie and Ralsei play the game they were talking about, but you're unable to interact with them. Just watch as they’re having fun without you.
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It's an adorable Susie and Ralsei moment that I'm glad we got, look at them go! It's nice to actually see the characters doing the things they say they do. But i think that maybe we got the option to walk here for another reason
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This is Ramb’s point of view. His name is above where you stand. This is how he experiences the world. He's in the background, in the darkest area of the green room, looking at all the folks coming and going, laughing, smiling, bonding, while he’s unable to join.
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Fully his own decision by the way, you can leave this room and go back to your adventures with your friends, he can leave his stand too.
Not that anyone is waiting for him to, though. So what's the point?
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Loneliness is overwhelming. It's an all encompassing feeling that paints everything and everyone you see, and once it's got its talons in you, it begins to feel impossible to overcome.
Even at times where you could fight it and win, if it sunk in already, it may just feel pointless, and you chose to lose a winnable battle.
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I doubt that in the entirety of Kris's house, there isn't a single darkner who would, at the very least, tolerate him. At best, genuinely like him and enjoy being his friend. But ramb knew loneliness in Cyber world, and its familiar sting found him in the Dreemurr house. Why try again?
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it's not like he needs it from the other darkners anyway, right? After all, he has someone who likes him. His lightner likes him, and that's more than enough.
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It's okay if they've not seen each other in years. It's okay if they never will again after the fountain is sealed. He has fulfilled his purpose in making sure they're happy.
That's more than enough. Nothing matters more than their happiness, not even him.
—-----
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So let's walk through what we can assume his life was like;
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He arrived at the library, as the only European plug there. Maybe he was accidentally purchased by someone who didn't notice that he had a socket type that they couldn't use with the rest of the plugs there.
He couldn't bond with any object in the library because he wasn't compatible with them, maybe they just didn't get along or the conversations didn't flow. No one there really cared about him, and he remained alone.
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Then, one day, a monster and a human decided to take him and bring him home with them.
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The human treated him like any one of their toys, and they played with him. He assisted them in having fun. He felt wanted, appreciated, useful, this was the first time in his life that he felt loved. He finally had a purpose.
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The other objects in this house just didn't get it, did they? this wonderful human was kind enough to give himself and all of them a home, they should be everyone's priority!
He tried to get them to focus their efforts on making the human happy, but nothing they ever did was good enough for them, he felt like he was the only one that really knew them, the only one who cared.
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The other objects started to get sick of him. and while they adjusted to their new life here just fine, finding friends and things to do, a place for themselves, he didn't. Again, he couldn't make a single friend.
He stuck to his beliefs, never questioning himself; if caring for my lightner is what got me to this point, then I don't regret it for a second. The one person who ever loved him deserves the best the world has to offer. He did not flinch when, from within, slowly, he began to turn to stone.
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The human grew up, and stopped playing with toys. Ramb continued his life as it was before, always thinking of his lightner, wondering how they're doing.
Until, one day, he saw them opening a dark fountain.
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His lightner is back! What joy! The one person who ever loved him, the one who gave him purpose, is right here!
He wondered why they opened a fountain right now, maybe it was fun that they were missing? And with the mind-numbing games his boss is making them play they're not getting any fun anytime soon.
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So he decided to fulfill his purpose. He set up the game that Tenna changed into that snooze-fest. The original version. The kind of game where you get choices. The story isn't linear, you can fight your way to the ending, or make friends that carry you through it.
(not that he knew of the controller he set up disappearing, and a corrupted one being left in the hallway by someone else)
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But if they choose not to play the game, that’s fine too. If they actually are having enough fun on Tenna’s game show, then that's fine. He won't force them to play his game, his purpose is to make sure Kris is having fun, not to be the fun they have.
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But if they do want to play his game? He’ll make sure they can until his very last moment. As he’s fully turning to stone, he doesn't care. His personhood doesn't matter, it never did. The only thing of value he has ever done was assist his lightner in their fun, way back when.
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He just wants them to have the fun they deserve, again.
—--------
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That's who he is in the story of chapter 3. A lonely darkner stuck in the past, who gives himself up for you to be able to have the fun you used to have, the fun you had back when he was useful, unwilling to move on from when he was loved by you.
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In a more meta sense though, he was also the perfect secret boss red herring;
A lonely, abandoned toy, with unexplored thoughts and feelings about his worth as a toy and what he means in the grand scheme of things. Seeing him in this chapter was supposed to make us believe, because of past experiences with these types of guys in this game, that he’ll be the secret boss.
But he wasn't, that’s a part of his character of being forgotten, and it's intentional.
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Okay, so he's not the secret boss, he's not Eram, and he was written to just be a red herring.
Why was it important that we know he saw Kris make the fountain?
Why was it important to imply that something happened to him after the sword route?
…Why doesn't the knight make the air crackle with freedom?
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Why did we need to know so much about him?
Beyond being a red herring, we learn so much about him as a character that doesn't go anywhere. Like his story was supposed to be something but got cut short.
Imagine if after Spamton gave you all this weird information in his shop, he turned to stone and THEN all the Addisons would show up and talk about him. It feels empty, like something was meant to be there, alongside all the information. some big break or moment that would give the character we slowly learned about over the course of the chapter closure.
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If he truly isn't and wasn't meant to be anything significant, then why are we given so much information on him? Why are we being made to wonder about him? Why are we being made to care?
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Even in runs where you don't play the mantle games, and all Ramb was to you was the funny little guy giving you prizes in the green room, you end up getting so much information about him out of nowhere. I know first time players that were genuinely weirded out by it- why is it there by a point where his importance really wouldn't matter to you??
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But that could be a part of him being a red herring, we're learning about him as a character and thinking “oh this guy is absolutely the secret boss”, then the twist is that he isn't.
And that's true! That seems to be the idea Ramb was created for. But I wouldn't write all this if there wasn't more
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Why isn't he in castle town?
We didn't get too many unique characters in chapter 3; Tenna, Lanino, Elnina, Shuttah, and Ramb are really the only significant ones, they all even show up at the beginning of the chapter before the first board.
Ramb is one of the 5 unique characters we got in chapter 3, they're all in castle town, except him, no matter if we do the sword games or not. there was no reason not to put him there and give him like 2 lines of unremarkable dialogue.
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Spamton was a unique character in chapter 2, but he doesn't show up in castle town either, even if we don't fight him as spamton neo.
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“certain bosses are excluded.” as if Ramb was meant to be something he ended up not being.
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Why doesn't he fully turn to stone?
(original image by @/unikhroma)
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If it was just 1 pixel I wouldn't mention it, if it was two I'd be surprised that the flood fill tool the deltarune team is using is so uncooperative. If it was three I'd raise an eyebrow but not proclaim anything.
It's four. It's four uncolored, obvious pixels on his petrified sprite??? One of them is a part of his mouth and very visible????
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Not to mention how his eyes are still black like they were before- when lancer turns to stone, the big spade on his face that acts as an expressive mask of sorts turns gray like the rest of him, making him look much more like a statue.
But ramb looks awake, just frozen and grayscale. (I find it interesting that in his half stone sprite his left eye is obscured in shadow, would it be black or gray?)
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And why is it that when we interact with him behind his stand, instead of getting “Some kind of stone statue”, we get blocked by the pippins, as if when we’d interact with it we wouldn't get that description?
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Why was there a need to imply he's still conscious? Why did we need to wonder if he heard everything that was said about him?
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Why was it important that we know he saw Kris make the fountain?
While it is very possible that other characters are aware that Kris made the fountain- even Tenna, who's the ruler of this dark world, doesn't outright call Kris their creator.
For some reason, this little british guy, supporting cast member no.5, is the only darkner as of yet, in the entire first half of the game, to knowingly speak with their creator on screen, and outright say they saw them make the fountain.
Why him? Why now? Why no one else?
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Why was it important to imply that something happened to him after the sword route?
When we exit the console room after getting the shadow mantle, Ramb is gone. He could've been outside as he was before, just fully turned to stone and giving the same prompt of “Some kind of stone statue”. But sure, maybe he's gone for tonal reasons. We leave right after the scene with Susie after all.
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But it was so important to Toby that we know Ramb didn't just walk away off screen or disappear without a reason, that he gave the dust bunny in the s rank room a unique shocked sprite so we’d know to talk to it.
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“I was so scared, Ramb was..” doesn't tell us much. Did something scary happen to him? Did he do something that scared them?
And why do we need to think about that in the first place? Isn't he supposed to just be an irrelevant statue by this point? Why was it important enough to be told to us?
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Why doesn't the knight make the air crackle with freedom?
Think about it. When spamton turns into the dealmaker/puppet scarf he becomes a little glimmer and falls down to us, and we get both the item he turned into and the shadow crystal he held.
The part that chipped off the knight's sword was the Black Shard, not the shadow crystal. They were just holding it, it wasn't a part of them.
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And, they don't have the freedom motif in their theme…
And “The air crackles with freedom” doesn't show up during their fight…
and they’re an unavoidable battle, unlike Jevil, Spamton, or Gerson.
And… They’re repeatedly said to have arrived late. Almost as if, if they had arrived in time, and Tenna wouldn't have had to stall the show so much, they could do what they came to do, whatever that was.
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The knight didn't mean for things to happen the way they did!
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I think the implication is that, if the knight wasn't late, one of the probable many dastardly activities it would be up to, would be to give Ramb the shadow crystal it was holding.
Interesting too that their plan this chapter is prophesied to fail (lord of screens, cleaved red by blade), while we're trying to break the prophecy.
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If the prophecy was broken this chapter and the knight did all they wanted perfectly, would we have fought Ramb?
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You might notice that most of these end with questions, and that's the point. We're not being told everything there is to know. For some reason, we're being made to ask questions.
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I'll be honest, if you make some assumptions you could probably find answers to most of these, but I can't, even with assuming things like; he's Eram, or he's truly not someone we're meant to care for- (those cancel each other out btw) Find an explanation to everything.
If you figure out an answer to one, another falls apart.
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And I'm not trying to find the answers to these questions, I'm just pointing them out, because for an irrelevant side character those are a shit ton of loose ends. That's what's weirding me out! Why are we being made to ask questions about someone who's made to be insignificant??
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This isn't a Mike situation where the answer was just “we don't know” and a pun about “real mike” (brilliant, btw)
Mike was a question for years at this point, but he had no answer because there wasn't meant to be one, we made the question of “who's mike” up!!
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But with Ramb we're given the character and the questions at the same time, something is being built, but there's no way for us to know what right now. For now we just have the questions.
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Isn't he a cryptic shopkeeper and that's it?
Not really? he doesn't have a shop menu, there's no option to sell him anything, there's no extended talk option, and you can't even buy anything from him and it's being pointed out in game;
“Gotta use that vending machine though, Tenna doesn't like us… touching the points.”
“Mixing drinks for himself, he wasn't allowed to handle the points”
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He's the least shopkeeper a shopkeeper ever was. Even the old man in chapter 4 had a more proper shop.
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Alright, so he’s a shopkeeper narratively, not literally. the Seam to Jevil, Swatch for Spamton.
Is he Eram’s shopkeeper?
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Seam hinted at Jevil’s existence the very first time we met them, they gave us a part of the key to his cell, and once we beat him they expanded on his story and downfall.
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Swatch hinted at someone stealing their look, breaking into the mansion, they shush you up if you bring up the basement. And after you beat spamton, they tell you what they knew of him, and how they saw everything as it went wrong.
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Ramb didn't know Eram existed. He didn't understand why Kris thought someone was in the back with them, he didn't see anyone come in.
In Ramb's mind he just gave Kris a classic NES game like the ones they played as a kid, where you can go around with your sword and level up, or play peacefully, completing side quests and talking to the characters.
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With how much he cares about kris, it's obvious he had no idea there would be a harmful taunting creature in there, calling their name and changing the game to give them a worse time, he didn't have to tell us that to his knowledge no one was back there with them, but he still did.
Sometimes things should be taken at face value.
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The shopkeepers to secret bosses dynamic seems to exist so that we could learn more about the secret bosses stories and about them as characters. We've seen two instances where the shopkeeper and the secret boss knew each other, but because they're there just to give us more information on them, then they don't really have to.
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Ramb could’ve given us information in a backwards way, saying things that include game or lore hints that would make sense to us but still show that he has no idea he's filling the role of a guide.
(think about Noelle's line in chapter 4; “we’ll know it's there if it makes noise.” she didn't know the soul was in the closet, she didn't know she was giving the player a hint! She was just telling Susie that if they heard a mouse squeak or something then they’ll know it entered Dess’s room.)
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And yet Ramb wasn't even that! We didn't learn anything about Eram from him, even after reading all his lines of dialogue about the game!!!
Ramb is not the battleable secret boss obviously, but he’s not even the shopkeeper to one!
What he is in this story, and will he be more? (Conclusion)
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So… what is he supposed to be? Is he just a red herring? Is his only purpose in this story to throw us off and be a part of this chapter’s expectation subversion?
So why the loose ends? Why the information?
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Like I said before, deltarune is not meant to be predicted. It can't be! Whatever all of this was for, if it was for anything, what it will be, when it will be and how, it's all up to toby.
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Originally, I wanted to bring up a theory I really believe in about the future of deltarune. If you're familiar with mollystars’ “the device theory”, you'll know all about it. New-game-plus.
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(In short, it's about how currently we're playing by the prophecy, (think of it as a flawed undertale neutral run), and once we reach the end of deltarune, we could break the prophecy, and have an extra epilogue chapter, or play the whole game again, and have a timeline where the prophecy is broken. (like resetting a neutral undertale ending and playing pacifist))
(watch the device theory trilogy on yt if you're interested, it's awesome and like 10 and a half hours long.)
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At first, this theory had a whole segment here, explaining it at length, and why ramb seems to fit it perfectly-
But… I decided not to do that. Sure, Ramb’s weird existence kinda does make me think about the new game plus theory, but… no. I'm not gonna assume anything more about him.
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We were given the character, then the questions. We can rack our brains trying to find the answers and feel as confident about them as we can be, but we were so off about Tenna before the chapters came out you guys.
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A lot of people tend to dismiss Ramb as just another character in this chapter that happened with nothing much more to him.
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The purpose of this essay, alongside compiling the information about Ramb and analyzing it and his character, was to point out and bring attention to the questions that his odd existence in this chapter raises, not try to answer them.
just show how strange it is that this character, that's supposed to be a red herring and nothing more, has this many questions regarding him, his existence in this story, and his unclear end.
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Something is being planned here, and we have no way of knowing what.
All we can do is sit with this character, the questions, the loose ends, the clues … and wonder.
gummygunk
blakekathryn
kianamaiart
