Could you elaborate on the nobody pun in Greek? You got me curious
hmm iâm actually not sure if i can but weâll see!Â
the first important thing is that ancient greek has two negative particles, ÎŒÎź (mÄ) and Îżáœ (ou), and they vary depending on the precise nature of the verb/clause (Îżáœ is used with indicative verbs and ÎŒÎź with imperatives,Â Îżáœ negates fear clauses andÂ ÎŒÎź negates conditional statements,Â Îżáœ goes with negative natural result clauses andÂ ÎŒÎź with negative actual result or purpose clauses, etc).
the second important thing is that the ancient greek for âno-oneâ or ânobodyâ is built by combining one of those negative particles with the word ÏÎčÏ (âsomeoneâ, âsomebodyâ), so you would use eitherÂ ÎŒÎźÏÎčÏ (mÄtis) or οáœÏÎčÏ (outis) depending on whetherÂ ÎŒÎź or Îżáœ would be the fitting negative particle in that context.
and the third thing is that capital letters, punctuation, and spaces between words, in homeric greek, mean nothing because homer 1) is oral poetry and 2) was initially written down, when it was written down in all caps with no spaces, punctuation, or diacritics.
odysseus tells the cyclops ÎáœÏÎčÏ áŒÎŒÎżÎŻ ÎłáŸœ áœÎœÎżÎŒÎ±, âNobody is my name,â using the form οáœÏÎčÏ.
and then hereâs the exchange later:
ጱÏÏÎŹÎŒÎ”ÎœÎżÎč Ύៜ ΔጎÏÎżÎœÏÎż ÏΔÏ᜶ ÏÏÎÎżÏ áœ
ÏÏÎč ጠÎșΟΎοÎč:
âÏÎŻÏÏΔ ÏÏÏÎżÎœ, ΠολÏÏηΌៜ, áŒÏηΌÎÎœÎżÏ áœ§ÎŽáŸœ áŒÎČÏηÏαÏ
ÎœÏÎșÏα ÎŽÎčៜ áŒÎŒÎČÏÎżÏÎŻÎ·Îœ Îșα᜶ áŒÏÏÎœÎżÏ
Ï áŒÎŒÎŒÎ” ÏίΞηÏΞα;
ጊ ÎŒÎź ÏÎŻÏ ÏΔÏ
ÎŒáżÎ»Î± ÎČÏÎżÏáż¶Îœ áŒÎÎșÎżÎœÏÎżÏ áŒÎ»Î±ÏΜΔÎč;
ጊ ÎŒÎź ÏÎŻÏ Ïៜ αáœÏ᜞Μ ÎșÏÎ”ÎŻÎœÎ”Îč ÎŽÏλῳ ጠáœČ ÎČίηÏÎčÎœ;â
ÏÎżáœșÏ ÎŽáŸœ αáœÏៜ áŒÎŸ áŒÎœÏÏÎżÏ
ÏÏÎżÏÎÏη ÎșÏαÏΔÏáœžÏ Î ÎżÎ»ÏÏÎ·ÎŒÎżÏ:
âᜊ ÏίλοÎč, ÎáœÏÎŻÏ ÎŒÎ” ÎșÏÎ”ÎŻÎœÎ”Îč ÎŽÏλῳ ÎżáœÎŽáœČ ÎČίηÏÎčÎœ.â
ÎżáŒ± Ύៜ áŒÏαΌΔÎčÎČÏÎŒÎ”ÎœÎżÎč áŒÏΔα ÏÏΔÏÏΔΜÏៜ áŒÎłÏÏΔÏ
ÎżÎœ:
âΔጰ ÎŒáœČÎœ Ύᜎ ÎŒÎź ÏÎŻÏ ÏΔ ÎČÎčΏζΔÏαÎč ÎżáŒ¶ÎżÎœ áŒÏÎœÏα,
ÎœÎżáżŠÏÎżÎœ ÎłáŸœ Îżáœ ÏÏÏ áŒÏÏÎč ÎÎčáœžÏ ÎŒÎ”ÎłÎŹÎ»ÎżÏ
áŒÎ»ÎαÏΞαÎč,
áŒÎ»Î»áœ° ÏÏ ÎłáŸœ ΔáœÏΔο ÏαÏÏ᜶ Î ÎżÏΔÎčÎŽÎŹÏÎœÎč áŒÎœÎ±ÎșÏÎč.
iâll translate it once from polyphemusâs perspective, with his understanding of what everyone is saying:
standing around the cave, they asked what could be troubling him:
âwhy are you shouting so much, polyphemus, as if youâre in pain,
and keeping us awake at night?
nobody is driving off your sheep!
is nobody killing you with trickery or force?â
strong polyphemus addressed them from his cave:
âfriends, nobody is killing me with trickery, not force!â
and they replied and spoke winged words:
âif nobody is hurting you and youâre alone,
well then itâs impossible to escape zeusâs sickness,
just pray to dad, lord poseidon.â
but the other cyclopes have a very different understanding of the conversation:
standing around the cave, they asked what could be troubling him:
âwhy are you shouting so much, polyphemus, as if youâre in pain,
and keeping us awake at night?
is someone driving off your sheep?
is someone killing you with trickery or force?â
strong polyphemus addressed them from his cave:
âfriends, nobody is killing me with trickery or force.â
and they replied and spoke winged words:
âif nobody is hurting you and youâre alone,
well then itâs impossible to escape zeusâs sickness,
just pray to dad, lord poseidon.â
when they say ጊ ÎŒÎź ÏÎŻÏ Ïៜ αáœÏ᜞Μ ÎșÏÎ”ÎŻÎœÎ”Îč ÎŽÏλῳ ጠáœČ ÎČίηÏÎčÎœ; they mean it in the sense of âis someone killing you, either by trickery or force?â (a question of whether injury is happening), but he hears it in the sense of ânobody is killing you! is it by trickery or force?â (a question of how the injury is happening). and he answers by saying ÎáœÏÎŻÏ ÎŒÎ” ÎșÏÎ”ÎŻÎœÎ”Îč ÎŽÏλῳ ÎżáœÎŽáœČ ÎČίηÏÎčÎœ, which he means as âNobody is killing me by trickery, not by force,â (an answer to how the injury is happening) but they hear it as ânobody is killing me, neither by trickery nor by forceâ (a negative answer to whether injury is happening). but the greek is the SAME and the scene plays with ambiguities in greek that kind of have to be resolved in translation.
the pun is made more complicated by the fact that all the time the other cyclopes useÂ ÎŒÎźÏÎčÏ andÂ ÎŒÎź, since those are the forms that fit their sentences, and polyphemus uses οáœÏÎčÏ and οáœ, which are the forms that fit his sentences, but heâs actually using οáœÏÎčÏ as a name, not because it fits. so they say ânobodyâ and he says âno, Nobody,â and they respond, âyeah, nobody,â because of the two different ways of saying ânobody.â not sure if that makes any sense but. it is very clever in greek. it does work incredibly well in english, especially if you play with the capital N of Nobody that a reader would see but would know the cyclopes canât hear. but there are more things going on in the greek.
