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My Homelander playlist, carefully curated
not to be that hoe but lowkey stand edgar's role is so downplayed by all sides of the boys' fandom. don't get me wrong i like him mainly because of giancarlo esposito but it's crazy how the fact that he's literally a guy who was approving vought's experiments on babies, created homelander and run the company of deeply deranged people is so widely ignored šš but the worst thing of it all is that he truly dgaf. his interactions with homelander are funny but when you really look at them it's a man being done with a child that was a direct product of the trauma he put them through
Repost because I had to make some changes but anyway, The Boys dragon-slayer/fantasy au
they're a problematic character TO YOU. they're problematic to me as well but I'm being weird and horny about it so it's different
tumblr is so good. whole website dedicated to BITCHING and MOANING. and television
There's something I've picked up on lately and it's probably not new and is a recognized trope with name. I don't feel like trying to look it up though, so I'm just going to call it the Irredeemability of Cringe.
My thesis is that Cringe is a spectrum and any character that is too Cringe and is classified as cringy becomes Irredeemable.
Of course, this phenomenon only caught my eye because of Homelander but The Boys gives me more material. Including the Deep and A-Train, but I will focus on the two biggest examples for brevity.
Homelander is a villain and, despite how he was treated in season 5, he was the villain that was framed throughout the series as being the most physically threatening. Though the role of ultimate villain was rightly Stan Edgar's, Homelander got saddled with it due to the showrunner's and writers' political fixation and skewed view of what the narrative of the series conveyed.
Homelander though powerful, threatening, and cunning is cringy. He drinks fresh cow's milk from a bucket. It has not been cleaned or pasteurized, so the audience can know that there is fur in it. He breastfeeds from a woman that he is not sleeping with or even romantically interested in. He bathes in stolen breastmilk from the NICU. Though there are deep psychological reasons behind why he does this and why he loves milk so much in general, the visuals make the audience cringe. Homelander is also often childishly petulant and insecure in a distinctly "unmanly" way compared to other characters. He behaves submissively toward some women, who were mostly villainous themselves, but was the rapist of a Good Woman. He flees from fights that he feels he stands a chance of losing, despite the advantage his superpowers give him. Which, as it is done by Homelander who is clearly defined as pathetic, is a sign of cowardice rather than intelligence or good sense. This is a villain that is plainly Cringe to most people, and in a way that makes him Irredeemable.
Now let's consider Soldier Boy. Soldier Boy was said to take advantage of some faceless women that were far too young for him. He is guilty of stolen valor; he is racist; he is in love with the same Nazi Homelander loved. But Ben gets to be charismatic and very cool too. His appreciation for older women is not some hunt for a mother figure as Homelander's tendency to fall for slightly older or only physically young women is, but simply is Ben's preference. Soldier Boy just still goes for ladies closer to his age even though he can pull young bombshells just as easily. He is mostly effortlessly charming to any woman he desires and his lovers are satisfied in bed by him (despite what lousy editing would imply). He gets to say cool lines. He gets to be clever in fights and never runs even when he should, which is brave and not ever lampshaded as stupid. When he is outsmarted, he still looks cool and always comes out the other side all right in the end anyway. He doesn't fret and cry after losing like Homelander does, he gets mad and he gets even. He has some cringe aspects but he does not slide toward the level where he becomes Irredeemable. It doesn't matter that Ben is as much an unrepentant monster as his son or that he is nihilistic and cruel. Soldier Boy is Redeemable because he is more Cool than he is Cringe.
To further illustrate my point, I only need look at fan and fan-to-fan responses now and how they compare across media.
There is a trend of thought, mostly among the male audience, that it is silly to expect every villain to be redeemed. I agree with this. It is perfectly acceptable for there to be stories that are good versus evil and for the evil to be uncomplicatedly vanquished in those stories. It is also more than acceptable for a villain's life and death to be framed as tragic but for their fall to need to happen anyway to resolve the story. That's all well and good. However, sometimes this cry for simplicity is misdirected. As it is when it comes to Homelander.
Homelander was not pure evil or really intentionally evil at all as he was never given anyone good to model morality from. He did what he was created to do and then he acted out in the destructive manners he knew. Still, he was not a born evil creature the way a Tolkien Orc is. Some fans treat him as if he was though. Granted, that is how the show tries to treat him via not letting anyone that might care learn anything solid about his past and by neglecting to explore it further in season 5. Even though the writers claimed to be tying up loose ends they failed to reveal Barbara Findley's fate (something even Antony Starr was uncertain of), because they wanted Homelander's past out of the audience's mind so they could kill their Trump parody.
It is a bit ironic how Homelander and other Cringe villains are treated in comparison to, say, Darth Vader or Roy Batty. Even though those men's plights and sins are really not so different from Homelander's. They both killed and tortured many people. Darth Vader also killed children and stood by while an entire populated planet was obliterated. Yet no fan will argue that Darth Vader should have died evil rather than return to the Light right at the end. No fan will argue that Roy Batty's final lines were unnecessary and took away from the narrative weight of Blade Runner. Because Darth Vader and Roy Batty, despite their struggles, flaws, and pain, were Cool Characters. They got that redemption because they were awesome, strong, brave, and powerful. They did not cross the Irredeemably Cringe line.
Not like Homelander did. His lack of Coolness is what doomed him to a brutal death without any last minute Redemptive Act or Tragic Framing. That is the cost of the Irredeemablility of Cringe.
I keep seeing this sentiment repeated online along the lines of, āfeel bad for John, not Homelander.ā And it frustrates me to put it lightly.
John and Homelander are not different people, they are not different characters. There is no innocent child John trapped inside a Homelander shaped shell. Homelander is not some foreign spirit possessing the body of innocent lab-rat John. Homelander is John. period. In just the same fucking way that āeffectā cannot exist in isolation from ācause,ā Homelander cannot exist in isolation from John, because every awful thing that Homelander is, is the direct causal result of every awful thing that happened to John.
Because Homelander literally could not be Homelander if he was not John.
Saying āfeel for John, not for Homelanderā cowardly and strategically avoids confronting the scary fact that even ābadā people, people who you hate, might actually deserve empathy and equitable justice when they have been unjustifiably wronged. And it does so by taking ONE person and dividing them into two separate individuals: The Innocent (who you can advocate for without guilt) and The Guilty (who you can hurt without thought).
Itās so much easier to hate something when you purposefully strip it of its humanity and pretend itās another character. This is the death of nuance btw.
If 15 year old John didn't deserve what happened to him in the lab, then 45 year old mass-killer Homelander didn't deserve it either. It doesn't matter what heinous things Homelander does as an adult, a person cannot āearnā past punishment retroactively. The child torture was wrong when it happened and it remained wrong every year Homelander was alive, and every year afterward. Because they were the same person. Same body, same life, same soul, same injustice. And because of that, Homelander and not just John, but Homelander was owed justice. He was owed it. Because John was owed it. Simple as that.
Perfect post.
Iāll be honest, when I first read your tags I thought the fic prompt was attempting to highlight the silliness and broken logic of treating HL and John as two different people. Like I thought the prompt was framing The Boys as being wrong by being purposefully ridiculous. And thought that could be pretty interesting to read!
Then I realized you meant the prompt was framing the boys as being right in that justice could be gotten for John by⦠beating up John
I keep seeing this sentiment repeated online along the lines of, āfeel bad for John, not Homelander.ā And it frustrates me to put it lightly.
John and Homelander are not different people, they are not different characters. There is no innocent child John trapped inside a Homelander shaped shell. Homelander is not some foreign spirit possessing the body of innocent lab-rat John. Homelander is John. period. In just the same fucking way that āeffectā cannot exist in isolation from ācause,ā Homelander cannot exist in isolation from John, because every awful thing that Homelander is, is the direct causal result of every awful thing that happened to John.
Because Homelander literally could not be Homelander if he was not John.
Saying āfeel for John, not for Homelanderā cowardly and strategically avoids confronting the scary fact that even ābadā people, people who you hate, might actually deserve empathy and equitable justice when they have been unjustifiably wronged. And it does so by taking ONE person and dividing them into two separate individuals: The Innocent (who you can advocate for without guilt) and The Guilty (who you can hurt without thought).
Itās so much easier to hate something when you purposefully strip it of its humanity and pretend itās another character. This is the death of nuance btw.
If 15 year old John didn't deserve what happened to him in the lab, then 45 year old mass-killer Homelander didn't deserve it either. It doesn't matter what heinous things Homelander does as an adult, a person cannot āearnā past punishment retroactively. The child torture was wrong when it happened and it remained wrong every year Homelander was alive, and every year afterward. Because they were the same person. Same body, same life, same soul, same injustice. And because of that, Homelander and not just John, but Homelander was owed justice. He was owed it. Because John was owed it. Simple as that.
Relapsing on analyzing Homelander inspired by this post
I think the argument of "terrible things were done to him, but he was a grown man and could have made the right choices" is ALWAYS a contradictory argument. It equates to saying that you've taken into consideration the extreme and unimaginable abuse in his childhood, but then suddenly forgetting it by making a fundamentally opposing statement: that he had every opportunity to act differently later in life.
This reasoning doesn't ever fully stand because if we agree that his childhood was irrevocably harmful to him, the logical consequence is understanding that his actions are determined by his past trauma.
Actually I think Homelander's better than me, I would've committed genocide 4 yesterdays ago if they did this shit to me for 18 years and then proceeded to play in my face for the following 30.
Worlds saddest little serial killer
Honest to God, Homelander is not that mentally ill for what he's been through, there should be no way that after such levels of biblical torture he's even able to form coherent thoughts of any kind.
And I don't get why people expect him to just 'know better', like baby you'd need 10 psychiatrists to adress his first 5 minutes of life alone, he's never been taught 'better', he can't act 'better', he had a 'boling the subject alive for 1 hr 40 mins' scheduled on a random Thursday evening, what kind of positive life lesson was he supposed to learn from that, was that the moment he was supposed to start caring about humans?
Like, fym he was basically in solitary confinement for all his first 18 years of life, and just casually tortured for days on end in ways the human body is not even built to withstand for over 2 seconds, how tf is he even having casual conversations of any kind, anybody else in his place would be behaving like a chimpanzee on methamphetamine 24/7, he should be sliming everybody out without a single thought, on SIGHT.
Literally thank you so much, you are so right and it pisses me off to no end that more people donāt get this.
Humans are not actually born with an innate moral compass pointing north to what is right and what is wrong. We develop principles of morality by experience! By observing, in childhood, the principals and values of our communities and mimicking and adopting them as we grow up! Morals are not an objective truth in nature, they are learned!
Homelander was born into a community that normalized his submitting to incomprehensible and unending agony and exploitation for the entirety of his adolescence. Which was done all simply for profit in the entertainment industry.
How could he have chosen to be good when the only morals he was raised alongside, were those of the scientists who tormented him everyday simply because they could.
And thatās not even touching on the specific torture he experienced that no other human being on earth ever could.
We might be able comprehend the pain of hypothetically burning alive. We cannot comprehend the pain of burning alive perpetually without end. That should have completely broken his mind into something akin to an animal.
Just burning and burning and burning without dying, impassive eyes watching coldly from the other side, uncaring ears listening to the screams of a child burning in a crematorium, with nerve-endings never charring away to numbness but enduring and sending a non-stop signal to a little childās brain to āget away from this, it is painful, you are in danger,ā but with no actual way to escape the pain of burning, not even in death.
Is that not literally how we describe actual Hell?
HELLO??
Soup š„£
I wonder how old homelander was the first time they dyed his hair.
Looking at the babylander and the photograph of him as a child in the lab, he was definitely one of those kids who had bleach-blond hair as a toddler, but it got super dark as he got older.
I mean, Iād guess theyād start that in the lab despite only being seen by vought staff, just to get him used to the process. But I wonder who first suggested it and when? Who the hell was brave enough to get in there and do it the first time? What did John think when they told him his brown color had to go? I know he hates finding grey hairs, but do we think he hates his natural brown or would he be more apathetic to it?
I just like thinking about some of the weirdly mundane parts of his horrifying childhood.
duuuuuude you have GOT to come out tonight we're enacting cruelty upon those who have transgressed so badly that we can justify any act against them... and you KNOW we're interpreting our delight as moral righteousness... Yeah it's fucking crazyyyyyyy get an Uber