some examples i can think of brotherhood crimes of doing riza(and royai) dirty in my opinion that's the absolute truth in the universe. consciously excluding stuff i think are minor but annoy me just as bad or else this post would be too exhausting:
being ugly in general
not including her time travel joke from when they learn that the elrics are kids and not adults on their way to recruiting them
not including the scene where roy meets her after she calls him when she meets barry the chopper and threatens to burn him out of jealousy
changing the dialogue after roy saves her from gluttony from:
to:
LIKE...... if brotherhood has the habit of cutting off scenes to make it shorter then WHY they would change this scene to become BIGGER AND WORSE. the dialogue in manga is a clear example of their trust and wordless care for each other. while in broho it's just ?????? roy being an asshole????? to his wife?????? whom he just left his post running for bc he sensed she was in danger???? whoever chose to change this dialogue. kill yourself
riza being nice to alphonse when they are at 3rd laboratory:
not including the only time in the whole series roy calls her by her first name only:
the WHOLE ishval arc. riza telling ed about ishval lasts a whole ass volume while it's barely an entire episode in anime like... hm.. for starters the way roy and riza meet again there is different. in manga she saves roy and hughes from a surprise attack, and only realizes it's roy when she sees him through the scope. then hughes tells roy that they brought a talented sniper from the academy and goes after her to thank her for saving them. in anime riza suddenly shows up to roy when he was talking to hughes and like... not necessarily a bad thing i guess but...... yeah.... also this whole conversation is cut off if i remember right.. among a lot of other things LOL i hate how ishval arc is played down in BH
riza being funny and cute not being included again
this scene when they reach 3rd lab again in promised day and roy jokes about wanting to see her honest tears again and riza replies saying water makes him useless BUT in manga she's all cute and blushy while in anime they make her be all # girlbaws about it because that's all brotherhood riza is about lmao they took away her moeness...crime
in manga, after roy gives up killing envy upon realizing it would lead to riza shooting him then killing herself, it shows him lowering her gun without the glove he previously had on. symbolizing that he lowered his weapon before he could lower hers. in anime he still has his gloves on
EDIT I FORGOT THE MOST IMPORTANT PANEL OF THEM ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
RIZA BEING INSUBORDINATE AND A BRAT SHE'S SO CUTE THIS PANEL IS WHAT INSPIRED MY USERNAME... SHE'S SO CUTE...... brotherhood is so scared of letting riza be cute and moe because she would be too powerful if they let her
EDIT 222222 BECAUSE I WOKE UP IN COLD SWEAT AT REMEMBERING I FORGOT THIS TOO
roy visits madame christmas' bar looking down and she asks him why doesn't he and elizabeth go someplace fun... we all know who elizabeth is right... and he says miserably that another man took elizabeth away from him(referring to riza being kept hostage by bradley) and at that the other girl asks if that means she has a chance with him now. everyone knows that roy is so wifepilled he won't look any other way if riza is in the picture lmao also how embarrassing it is that even your mom knows you're fucking your subordinate
i'm convinced somebody at BH staff hated riza's ass because of how often riza and royai scenes are changed or ignored... i know it's common for anime adaptations to cut off moments from manga but for an anime that whole premise is to be The Better Adaptation, doing it so often makes it bad to me. if you repeatedly exclude scenes that tell more about the characters because they're "not relevant to the plot", eventually there will be no actual personality left, only characters that are plot props
THERE'S A LOT MORE i wanted to include but this is already long enough and i got tired LMFAO a lot of things(most not included) are non issues because are mostly about riza being a bit silly, or showing more expression than she does in anime in a scene that otherwise doesn't change anything. but they still annoy me because by repeatedly excluding and changing these moments add to the view people have of her being nagging and stoic, at an attempt to make her a cool flawless Good Woman Character. what for.
Let's talk about what the so-called "devil's nature" is and what traits are inherent in devils. We know from the manga that devils usually have some sort of instinct to dislike humans. That's all by now. The problem is that devils are just as intelligent beings as humans (perhaps more intelligent, considering that Darkness Devil has gained some great wisdom over his long life, I don't know). They are capable of learning and drawing conclusions based on their experiences and knowledge, and they are not animals following their instincts, because if that were the case, Chainsaw Man would be a completely different manga. In general, devils here have the same free will as humans.
I've seen a lot of people convinced that devils are some kind of plain evil, devoid of any kind of virtues simply because that's what they are, despite the fact that this is completely contrary to what is shown in the manga. Compassion, remorse, selflessness and love are called by many as something alien to them.
We have Angel Devil, who blamed himself so much for the deaths of people that they appeared in his nightmares, and who formed strong bonds first with the villagers and then with Aki. Then we have Power, who we were able to fully watch go from the point where she didn't care about anyone, including herself, to the point where she desperately does everything she can to save the person she cares about. Nayuta was also willing to sacrifice himself to ensure the safety of a human she loved. Makima shows some degree of remorse, despite the fact that her environment wasn't even dispositioned to develop such feelings (I don't think she could have been insincere in the beach scene, since Aki and Angel Devil were already under her control and it didn't make sense for her to manipulate them). In fact, it's in regards to Makima that I most often come across nonsense like "well, they're devils, obviously they're inherently bad" as fandom struggles with the idea of her not being universally evil, but that would also mean that characters like Power and Angel Devil are no different, and I don't think the same people would like that. Now that we've got that out of the way, how can all these traits not be an integral part of the "devil's nature" if devils have the natural potential to develop them?
It's also a common idea that devils are killing machines obsessed with genocide, but in Nayuta's example, we see, we see that devils may not even like killing at all. The manga often shows that even unfriendly devils' first reaction to humans isn't always to kill them.
Finally, we come to the individual devil's nature. Like I said, disliking humans is literally the only known thing the devils can share with each other, according to the manga. So I roll my eyes every time I read something along the lines of "wow, Nayuta chose Denji's happiness above her own, she defeated her Control Devil nature". I mean, what do we even know about the "Control Devil nature"? Some attribute Nayuta's innate tendency toward dictatorial behavior or possessiveness, but I don't see the point in considering it anything more than fanfiction until the manga itself points out that such things take place. What then is Famine Devil nature? Eating sweets for five? It's more like people jump to premature conclusions on their own, and then when they don't match reality run to write nonsense about "nature vs nurture", an idea that has already been horribly twisted by fandoms.
Yes, of course, devils in general are very dangerous for humans, and in the war with them (part two calls it that), countless numbers become victims. Still, devil characters in manga are just as complex as human characters, and I find it very reductive to try to simplify them in this way. The author has already humanized the devils enough for us to ignore it.
Since Asajj Ventress appeared in recent media and is set to appear in future shows and Star Wars content, I've seen a lot of people starting to read Dark Disciple. but besides that book, there are so many stories featuring Asajj over her 22 years of existence. So if you are looking for some recommendations and entry points to Asajj outside of the TV shows, here are some recommendations to get to know her a bit better, in both the Canon and Legends timelines:
(for anyone looking for a definitive list of everything she's ever been in, I also have that)
for anyone looking for just the list of recommendations without all my babbling, scroll down to the bottom, it'll be there.
Canon
Dooku: Jedi Lost Audiodrama - Script by Cavan Scott, preformed by full cast (also available in Script format)
Starting off, this masterpiece. Telling the dual story of Asajj and Dooku, Jedi Lost is genuinely some of the best Star Wars content out there, in my opinion. Taking place early in The Clone Wars, it tells Asajj's journey battling her ghosts and uncovering her Master's history. It requires only the context of the prequels and The Clone Wars, and I wholeheartedly recommend it to anyone who likes the Prequels, Dooku, or Asajj.
Brotherhood - by Mike Chen
Continuing with the book that serves as an introduction to Asajj in canon (chronologically), Brotherhood presents an interesting take on her first meetings with Anakin and Obi-Wan. She's far from the main character here, only supporting the book's plot as the villain and the initiator behind some of the troubles Obi-Wan faces on Cato Neimodia. This Asajj is more calculated, working behind the scenes while still facing off face to face against Obi-Wan and Anakin, and it uniquely handles her character. The book is a Clone Wars adventure taking place before and it requires only the movies' and TCW's context, once again.
*While technically taking place after Hyperspace Stories #5, it contradicts that issue's events and makes more sense if it takes place before, so I listed it first (for more info on the contradictions you can go here)*
Star Wars: Hyperspace Stories #5 - Written by Amanda Deibert, with art by Riccardo Faccini (Variant cover by Cary Nord)
Taking place shortly after Anakin's knighting, before The Clone Wars show, this is a short and interesting comic story for Asajj. While tying into an over-arching plot of the series, this issue stands alone well. Simply put, Asajj is sent to retrieve a mysterious item by Count Dooku and encounters Anakin and Obi-Wan in the process. It has fun art, fun dynamics, and it's really good.
Worthless - a short story from Stories of Jedi and Sith - written by Delilah S. Dawson with an illustration by Jake Bartok
This one is not as set on the timeline, but we do know it takes place while Asajj is still working for Dooku. In short, without too many spoilers, Asajj falls into a pit and has to trust on a Clone Trooper's help to get out. The story is a part of an anthology, but it completely stand-alone on its own. If you can read it on its own, I recommend it, but the rest of the book is also very much worth it if you want to buy it for the story. Dawson captures a version of Asajj that rarely gets attention, before the Nightsisters, and manages to show her identity and tell a wonderful story without that tool that's often overly used (in my opinion).
Star Wars Adventures: Return to Vader's Castle #3 - Written by Cavan Scott with art by Francesco Francavilla & Nick Brokenshire Jumping forward in the Timeline, we have another Asajj story by Cavan Scott! It has Bounty Hunting, A baby Sarlacc, pretty art, fun coloring, and Asajj. So what's not to love? Like Hyperspace Stories, Return to Vader's Castle also has an over-arching plot, but that's 4 framing pages of Vaneé being a bitch and has no effect on the rest of it. Solid stuff. (it is also the source of the first picture in this post)
Sisters - a short comic story from the Age of Republic Special - written by Jody Houser with art by Carlos Gómez
Next, we have a wonderful short story taking place just before The Clone Wars episode "To Catch a Jedi". In just a few pages, Jody Houser brings conflict and personality to Asajj's time on Coruscant. And there's gorgeous art.
Legends
While Legends, and especially the comics, have some of my favorite stories with Asajj, it's hard to recommend individual issues. They can be stand-alone but still connected and ingrained in the ongoing story of the comics. But I tried to hand-pick the best for introduction and knowledge of who Asajj is a character there. So I won't recommend the 12 issues she's in, I set myself the limit of sticking with the same number of recommendations I had for canon.
Star Wars: Republic: The New Face of War - 2-issue Comic arc - written by W. Haden Blackman with art by Tomás Giorello
Although I'm assuming you all have at least a passing familiarity with Asajj's character, introductions are still important. And, yes, Asajj first appeared in a different comic and after a month or so in Clone Wars (2003), but chronologically, in-universe, this is her first appearance. The Face of War is comprised of issues #51 and #52 of the Star Wars: Republic comic series, and although Asajj is only in the last page of #51, it's necessary context. This one isn't a must for me, but it sets the ground for her. And it's good. Giorello's art brings a unique perspective to Asajj's character, and by that I mean it may not be to some people's taste. So take your pick with this one.
Star Wars: Republic #53 - written by W. Haden Blackman, with art by Brian Ching
If the last one isn't a must, this one is. It is a stand-alone adventure, almost feeling like a (better) TCW episode. Obi-Wan is off to infiltrate a Techno Union base with a team of all-star legendary Jedi that are introduced, and everything goes wrong when they run into the Confederacy's best, Durge and Asajj Ventress. I say it's a must because it establishes the nature of the rivalry between Obi-Wan and Asajj, and gives us such a sense of who those people are. It also lays the foundations to my next comic recommendation.
Dark Heart - short story by August and Cynthia Hahn
This one, a 1784-word story, originally published on Wizards.com as a part of The Living Force roleplaying campaign, is definitely not a must, but it's barely 2k words, just read it. In all seriousness though, it captures Asajj's essence and I just. love it. You can read it right now, that's the link in the name, it's up online for free legally. While it is a part of the RPG campaign, I read it individually and had no trouble at all.
The Cestus Deception - by Steven Barnes
(The Japanese cover is prettier and has Asajj, ok?) Obi-Wan Kenobi and Kit Fisto head to the planet Ord Cestus to try and convince Ord Cestus's government to ally with The Republic. But under the surface, a mysterious scheme had developed and it gets messy. Never ask me to write a publisher's summary. Asajj is the villain of this one, and I don't have much to say about it, but it is good. Fair warning: it hasn't aged the best in my opinion, and not even in a politically correct sense, some of the descriptions and relationships were questionable at best. If you like Kit Fisto and political adventuring and Clone Wars fights and a mascarade ball, if I remember correctly, this one's for you. It's not much of a story for Asajj but it is a fun read.
Star Wars: Republic #60 - written by W. Haden Blackman with art by Tomás Giorello
I have never ever not once said it but this right here is my favorite Asajj story of all time ever. It does require context, though, so here's it: after the battle of Jabiim, Alpha-17 (Legends Arc Trooper, you may have heard of him) and Obi-Wan (a staple in Asajj's stories, he needs to gtfo women's business) are blown up and declared dead. Turns out Asajj Ventress has been holding them in her castle on the planet Rattatak and this is the daring story of their escape. In this issue, Asajj's origin story is revealed, before the Nightsisters had anything to do with her. More than any other Legends issue, it differentiates greatly from anything you know about Asajj in TCW/Canon. She's a warlord, with armies at her beck and call, a military commander, And it's fun. Her origin story is told in this issue, and it's such a great story that shifted my understanding of her a lot. The art, once again, is by Giorello, keep it in mind.
Yoda: Dark Rendezvous - by Sean Stewart
(Japanese cover, once again) Last but certainly not least, the Legends Clone Wars book I've heard the most positive reviews of, and was not disappointed in the slightest. It is as good as they say. The story doesn't focus on Asajj, and she isn't even the main antagonist, but she gets a meaningful role in it and has her place and her arc in the story. It's also my favorite approach to how Asajj would act when she has to deal with children. Worth the hype and an excellent book to read unrelated to Asajj.
Alright, that's all! I hope you check out at least one of these, they're all great. As said before, I also have a complete list of everything Asajj in chronological order. Feel free to ask me anything about the list and the things in it. I can also give a complete comic reading list for her, since it's a bit more than just the issues she appeared in. For anyone struggling with the accessibility of these recommendations, I have a hopefully comprehensive guide in the complete appearances post. And now just this list because I promised that:
Canon
1) Dooku: Jedi Lost Audiodrama - Script by Cavan Scott, preformed by full cast (also available in Script format)
2) Star Wars: Hyperspace Stories #5 - Written by Amanda Deibert, with art by Riccardo Faccini (Variant cover by Cary Nord)
3) Worthless - a short story from Stories of Jedi and Sith - written by Delilah S. Dawson with an illustration by Jake Bartok
4) Star Wars Adventures: Return to Vader's Castle #3 - Written by Cavan Scott with art by Francesco Francavilla & Nick Brokenshire
5) Sisters - a short comic story from the Age of Republic Special - written by Jody Houser with art by Carlos Gómez
Legends
1) Star Wars: Republic: The New Face of War - 2-issue Comic arc (Star Wars: Republic #51-52) - written by W. Haden Blackman with art by Tomás Giorello
2) Star Wars: Republic #53 - written by W. Haden Blackman, with art by Brian Ching
3) Dark Heart - short story by August and Cynthia Hahn
4) The Cestus Deception - by Steven Barnes
5) Star Wars: Republic #60 - written by W. Haden Blackman with art by Tomás Giorello
6) Yoda: Dark Rendezvous - by Sean Stewart
tag list: @thechaoticfanartist @charmwasjess @metalatl @redsandspirit @slutshartsstuff @housepartyfortwo @karma-malfoy @thelivingforce
You know, this moment is probably supposed to be some kind of creepy revelation, but… At some point Makima used her powers on Aki to make him like her? This happened before Denji's appearance in the Public Safety, since Aki is already in love with Makima at the beginning of the story, and this couldn't be part of some evil scheme because it doesn't make any sense. What the hell is she even doing?
As far as I can tell, in Chainsaw Man the words of characters that you might attribute to lore are sometimes not the ultimate truth. For example, in part one, some Devil Hunters say that speaking ability correlates with how strong the devil is (chapter 45). That being said, later on we meet Bucky, the weakest devil shown, and he speaks perfect Japanese, and on the other hand we have Darkness Devil, who is obviously one of the strongest, but is taciturn. So I would say that the characters' own knowledge of devils may be quite limited.
Then we have the following statement (chapter 34). Devils with human-like appearance tend to be friendlier to humans, but my theory is that their attitude towards humans has absolutely nothing to do with them having some sort of naturally higher tolerance for humans, as some in the fandom believe. In fact, I don't think we have any reason to believe they are any different from devils with non-human appearance.
Come to think of it, devils like Angel Devil or the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse (at least Fami, Makima and Nayuta) are almost indistinguishable from humans except for a halo or unusual eyes, which no one in the manga gives a shit about anyway. We know that Angel Devil was easily accepted by the good people in the village, and I assume that a human-like devil is just easier to integrate into human society, and therefore better behaved with them.
There was also Fox Devil, who is explicitly stated to be friendly to humans, yet shares no outward traits with them. Power also doesn't look like a human in her true form, which didn't stop her from socializing among them when she was a fiend. In general, I think the friendliness of human-like devils to humans is not determined by their appearance, but by how humans themselves treat devils with appearances similar to their own.
@annie-handholder rebloged a post I made with some Ursa and Azula art (that does not belong to me, I just got permission from the artist to share it on this platform) and those were the tags, and I'd like to address them.
First of all, there's no indication of Azula being spoiled. Being a prodigy and being praised isn't the same as being spoiled, you are simply getting recognition for the skills you do have that are great and do deserve recognition. To assume that this recognition isn't essential and is actually spoiling a child will only serve to un-motivate them. So Azula receiving praise for being good at stuff is just a normal thing. You try hard and are skilled and you get praise as a reward. This isn't being spoiled.
Being spoiled is to be harmed in character by being treated too leniently or indulgently. This is a definition that I copy-pasted. This definition does not fit Azula. We see Ursa make an attempt to set boundaries and be stern whenever the situation called for it. We even see Ozai tell her to fuck off when she asks for credit for her own plan (which wasn't good parenting, it was toxic as well, but it was the opposite way. If giving your children too much praise is toxic then not giving them recognition at all for their own achievements and ideas is the other end of the rope, and both are toxic. You should find the middle ground and give your children the proper amount of praise).
Additionally, we don't see anything that would imply that Azula is being spoiled with material possessions. We see her get a gift once, but that's all. It's not like she goes around pointing at things she wants and everyone breaks their back to get her that thing. She's not obsessed with material possessions, as you'd expect a spoiled child to be.
Yes, Ozai did not address her bad behavior, in fact, he encouraged it when it didn't affect him personally. But he also nipped it in the bud when Azula did something that annoyed him. And Ursa addressed her bad behavior too. So it's not like Azula grew up spoiled and without rules because her parents let her do whatever she pleased. The problem is that the rules that were in place by Ozai weren't the correct ones. Instead of being a decent dad and person and teaching his daughter to also be a decent person, Ozai just taught Azula to not be a bother to him. And she did do that. So Azula did follow the rules that were in place for her. You wouldn't call a child that follows rules spoiled. At this point, you have to realize that Azula wasn't the problem. She wasn't spoiled. She followed the rules. The problem is that the rules in question were unreasonable. So you can't really blame the child and call them spoiled. You have to hold accountable the people that set those rules in place.
If Azula behaved the exact same way, but the rules she had to follow were the ones society has agreed upon, she'd be a model child. So she's not the problem. She's not spoiled. The problem is that she was playing a version of the game with different rules that the agreed upon, socially acceptable ones. The one to blame in this situation is the one that set her up for failure and taught her to play the wrong version of the game. I'm looking at you, Ozai.
The child isn't spoiled, she follows rules. The problem is the irresponsible parenting. So you can't just go ahead and paint Azula out to be the problem. It's shifting the blame from the irresponsible parents to the misguided child. It's simply not fair.
So if Azula wasn't spoiled, then why didn't she realize Ursa loved her?
Well, that's because Ursa wasn't that good at showing it. I have made multiple posts about how Ursa parented Azula, and so have a bunch of other people. The truth is, while Ursa was strict with Azula when needed, she was too lenient with Zuko, with who she clearly favored and spend more time with. I'm not saying Ursa didn't love Azula, but I am saying that Ursa could have done more to express that love, and then Azula would know it's there.
In the past, Kishibe was somewhat of a mentor assigned to Makima, which is why she still respects him to this day.
When no one is around, Makima can command the TV and other devices in the hope that her powers will make them work better.
In other circumstances, Makima could have become a dog trainer, as she is meticulous in caring for her Siberian Huskies, having an encyclopedic knowledge of the breed, rivaling Asa's knowledge of shellfish.
Makima genuinely likes Aki as an interlocutor.
Using a pseudonym, Makima writes reviews of films she has watched.
Just saw a post about how fandoms are misunderstanding the characters Azula, Makima and Griffith. There was a comment like "Azula is just a psycho teenager, she's not nearly as bad as the other two." Although the second part of the statement is true, the first part was still enough to make me angry. Why, instead of blaming imperialist beliefs for Azula's evilness, do people continue to call her crazy, psycho, and so on? When did Azula's mental health problems become the reason for her evil deeds? Never. It's no different than any other Fire Nation soldier. Of course, it would be wrong to express disappointment only with the fans. In the case of such "saint" characters like Zuko, Iroh or Ursa, no one is really in a hurry to criticize their imperialism, but somehow they have to remain good in the eyes of the audience, unlike Azula, who is evil because she's crazy, and crazy because she's evil, according to Bryke. The more time passes, the more often the thought flashes through my mind that ATLA is not such a good show.
Do you have any unpopular opinions about the chainsaw man manga/anime
1. I prefer the final villain to be a human rather than a devil. In the first part we learned about such interesting things as the use of child soldiers with devil powers by governments (Reze); arms race and power struggle using devils (escalating military conflicts to increase the power of the Gun Devil, used as a military force, sounded like a very cool idea); political leaders using the lives of their citizens to make contracts with devils; Makima, being the main antagonist of the Public Safety Saga, was herself raised and used as a weapon by the state. I wish these things were explored more, and I would have liked it better if humanity's main problem ended up being just greedy and selfish people rather than some magical creatures.
2. Asa is a more interesting protagonist to me than Denji, and it's a shame that her development in the Chainsaw Man Crunch arc was left behind the scenes.
3. Denji and Makima are the characters who have suffered the most from their fandom, and the takes on them are mostly terrible.
4. Yuko and Santa Claus deserve more recognition.
5. Makima's defeat makes no sense, and Power would never have even been able to escape with Chainsaw Man if Makima hadn't suddenly forgotten all of her abilities. I've also seen some analysis of the cannibalism scene, but I don't see it as anything more than an excuse for Tatsuki Fujimoto to add his questionable fetishes to the manga, especially after his author's comments.
6. The Primordial Devils are no more powerful than the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse or the Chainsaw Devil, and the manga never implied otherwise.
7. Bucky is the purest character in the manga, but we don't deserve him.
8. Makima actually has very little in common with Kafka from Honkai: Star Rail, and it twitches me every time someone refers to them as basically the same character.
9. I disagree that Fire Punch is better or "more deeply" written than Chainsaw Man, and I get the impression that a lot of the people who claim this are just going for a more gloomy atmosphere that makes the manga seem more adult and cool in their eyes (still love FP, though).
can we talk about the oversexualization of Asajj and people seeing her only as a love interest and a pair of boobs and nice legs because I. I'm sick and tired
I partly blame this on TCW, where in the early seasons Dave Filoni didn't come up with anything smarter with the female antagonist than making her flirty and sexy, adding stupid interactions with Obi-Wan that, looking back at CWMMP, seem terribly out of character for both of them.
Surely I'm not the only one who has noticed that in fandoms, child soldiers are hated far more than the actual adult war criminals who force them to fight? Okay, I understand that ATLA is a children's show and Azula had much more of a presence than Ozai and anyone else (which doesn't make it any less weird to me that an adult audience would react to a traumatized teenager in this way), but for me It was wild how, in a forum thread discussing the Star Wars: Jedi vs. Sith comic, people were celebrating how a Jedi beat up a thirteen-year-old child who had recently become part of their army for misbehaving. Oh, and of course, the first search query on Gabi will bring up something along the lines of “why does everyone hate Gabi” or “the reason why I don’t hate Gabi.” I'm so tired of this shit.
Seeing as this current incarnation of the Avatar is a fire nation native, Fire Lord Palpatine was more then happy to take Anakin under his wing. Anakin reveres him as a wise man, and a great mentor.
What has always confused me is that people and ATLA itself say that Iroh changed for the better and stopped supporting the Fire Nation after the siege of Ba Sing Se. The same thing is often repeated even by those who criticize him, as if Iroh's biggest crime during the series was passivity. In the first season we see Iroh participating in the siege of the North Pole with Zhao, giving him tactical advice, thus actively contributing to the conquest. At that time, the reason he betrayed Zhao was only because the Fire Nation needed the moon too. So how should I take this? In a conversation with Jet, Iroh talks about his sins that happened years ago, and claims that he was a different person then, but at the same time he bombed people from the Water Tribe, I don't know… last weekend?
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