A Cali-born Millennial @sadakasana - Tumblr Blog

This got me in the feels

Fandom Problem #10,351:

"YOU WOULDN'T HATE THIS FEMALE CHARACTER IF SHE WERE A MALE!"

Yes I would. As a matter of fact, I already hate several male characters who act exactly like her. I hate her for the same reasons I hate the male characters.

Not everyone who hates a certain character is a sexist bigot. Some of us have genuine reasons for disliking certain characters.

matt0044

Well... odds are that they would buuuuuuuut it'd be less "hate" and more in a "dislike" or "not my favorite character" kind of way.

Because there is a bias against female characters and girls in general in a very well documented pattern of fandom behaviors. The kind that, well, you won't always be able to fully detect in yourself.

I know Avenue Q's more of a parody but one of its iconic numbers put it best:

And this applies to sexism in terms of often having blindspots to what we like and don't like in certain characters.

siryouarebeingmocked

One of the most prominent examples is how much of the Breaking Bad fandom hates Skyler, which is widely labeled misogyny.

And you know who else they hate? Hank. Often explicitly for gender reasons. Ironically, it often comes from progressives who hate how "hypermasculine" he is.

Another popularly hated character is Chuck McGill.

I don't see anyone calling that sexism.

I once asked people if they had any evidence one fan's dislike of Skyler was a gender thing, and none of them had any. The closest they got was "well, most men are misogynist, and most of the fanbase is men, therefore misogyny."

Which is even harder to prove than proving some random guy (and there was no evidence OP was a guy) hated one female character out of misogyny.

One of them also said I was a creep who made women cover their drinks when I passed. Again, no evidence I was even a man.

A lot of people make knee-jerk accusations of sexism because they don't like criticism/dislike of female characters. And (less commonly) male characters.

Talking about unconscious dark matter sexism doesn't change that, especially when this has been a national controversy (EG Captain Marvel, Gamergate) with long-lasting ripple effects.

picsthatmakeyougohmm

hmmm

cheshireinthemiddle

He said a slur.

sawbuckplus

It will do well on Broadway...

tomahachi12

Went to go see the movie bout some pretty amazing digging

this was my favourite part

rorronoa

autumnwoodsdreamer

I never liked those posts that reduce the Disney princesses to “girl who overacts about something and dramatically flings herself down and bawls” (super popular in the early 10’s and somehow that’s how a shocking majority view the classics now) but after an Aladdin (1992) rewatch, it’s especially egregious that they ever included Jasmine in that.

This part. This is the part I’m talking about

This is not a woman falling to pieces because her father won’t let her marry a man she just met.

This is a woman born to a life she has very little say in. She has never had a genuine friend (besides a tiger). She is facing a marriage to a man she doesn’t know and doesn’t like but duty (and the law) demands it. So she took a risk, ran away, ran to a world she doesn’t know or understand and when she landed in trouble (serious, serious trouble) a stranger came to her aid. She finally (finally!) made a real connection with someone but they didn’t get much time together before the guards showed up and she had to reveal who she was.

This moment when she’s crying her heart out? It comes after she’s been told that the first person she ever connected with, the first person to be genuinely interested in her for who she is and not what she is, the first real friend she has ever made, was executed… because of her.

She believes a good, innocent person has lost their life because of her actions, and what’s more, it brings home the reality for her that she cannot have a normal life or normal relationships, because see the consequences one little attempt wrought?

notlikeothernurses

I actually love this trope. People treat crying like some kind of moral failure. Boys shouldn't cry, girls *can* cry, but that's also what makes them inferior. If this is not an example of toxic masculity, I don't know what is.

Crying is normal. Even if it's over something trivial. We all face a lot of struggles in their lives, whether we acknowledge it or not. Something minor might end up breaking the camel's back.

Anyway, here's one of my favorite scenes in Beauty and the Beast:

Belle's reaction is completely understandable. I think Mrs. Potts put it best: "The girl lost her father and her freedom all in one day." That's not overreacting!

autumnwoodsdreamer

Thank you so much for adding Belle!

Really, none of the classic princesses deserve the misinterpretation.

Cinderella?

Again, this is not after someone told her “yOu CaN’t MaRrY a MaN yOu JuSt MeT”—this is after she went to great lengths to get ready for the ball, adhering to the intentionally difficult (meant to be impossible) stipulations set by her abusive step-mother for her to be allowed to attend (when really she was invited and had as much right as the others to attend). She made that dress (I can’t recall off the top of my head if the classic animated version was also her mother’s old dress she restyled or not but still, she put in a ton of work on top of all the extra house work) and what did her step-family do? They tore to shreds while she was wearing it. Of course she’s lost hope: it’s the final straw after years and years of doggedly remaining optimistic despite constant harsh treatment.

Let’s go to another favourite: Mulan.

Mulan’s just had the worst day.

She tried her hardest to live up to her family’s and her society’s expectations and vision of a perfect bride but she failed. Not only did it go wrong, but she was publicly humiliated by the Matchmaker—by extension, humiliating her family.

Granted, her family has been kind and sympathetic about the whole thing. Her father even goes to encourage her, assuring her of his unconditional love for her and his confidence that she’ll get it right next time.

She’s just beginning to smile when the drums pound and news of war reaches their village. Her father—her beloved father who’s already a veteran and lives with a disability—is expected as the only male in their family to suit up and head out in the morning.

Mulan can’t help. Nothing she says will be listened to and she can’t take his place (until, of course, she thinks of a way to do so which this moment of crying it out in the rain leads to—score one for having a good cry and clearing your head).

There’s of course more. Take any princess’ dramatic crying momentTM and review the context and I’ll bet you’ll see it’s never as trivial as some have framed it. And, yes, like prev pointed out, it’s this awful thing of people believing boys can’t cry and girls can but then they can never be taken seriously.

Crying is healthy. And crying in response to emotional distress is totally normal. Writers and storytellers across the ages have understood it and portrayed it.

siryouarebeingmocked

Boys shouldn't cry, girls can cry, but that's also what makes them inferior. If this is not an example of toxic masculity, I don't know what is.

You can just use "sexism", you know. I don't see how is this a masculinity issue, instead of just differeing gender roles and sexism.

Also, how often are "superior" people regularly expected to protect "inferior" people with their lives?

the-prequal

Also, the men don't necessarily SOB, but they do cry or barely hold in tears.

Roger and Pongo in 101 Dalmatians (thought a puppy died)

Louis and Navean in Princess and the Frog (ray was squished)

Miguel in Coco, and I think Hector? (Never getting to go back to the land of the living to see their family)

Little John and the rabbit boy in Robin Hood (thought Robin had been killed)

Mushu and Mulan's Dad in... Mulan (thought Mulan was dead and was sad to see Mulan so sad)

The Dwarves in Snow White (Snow White was functionally dead)

Sully in Monsters Inc (thought Boo had been crushed horribly)

Simba, Pumba and Timon in Lion King (dead dad and thinking they were losing their buddy)

Marlin and Gil in Finding Nemo (Nemos safety was the root cause)

Hank in Finding Dory (PTSD triggers a panic attack in the touching pool)

Now that's just off the top of my head, and I know a lot of them don't fully cry, they hold back the tears, but it's not like they have no emotions.

This is anecdotal, I know, but: I and several men I know just don't like crying so we tend to hold it in. So even the men/boys on the verge of tears feels pretty realistic to me.