Billy Hargrove Deserves Better

Stranger Things edits, analysis, and theories, with a special focus on one California bad boy. Run by Julia (@assortedfruitsnacks212) and Sarah (@bundyshoes). Official home of Billyvangelism™

[strangerthings5theories]

Billy Is Alive - Meta Index

EDIT January 12 2026: Welp, S4 and S5 were disappointing... but that doesn't mean we didn't have fun theorizing and analyzing. Hell, I think our ideas were pretty kickass! So here’s a handy-dandy index to preserve our posts forever and ever. (Well, until the fall of Tumblr at least)

📣 Before We Begin 📣

Frequently Asked Questions

This Blog Is A Ship-Friendly Space

Where Do Sarah And I Get Our Crazy Ideas?

Why Haven't We Seen Dacre On Set?

⭐ Billy Is A Main Character In Stranger Things ⭐

ST Asks You To Sympathize With Billy Hargrove

Billy Is Not A ‘B’ Character In ST - He’s A Main Character

Billy Is As Important To ST As Hopper And El - A Study Of Intro Shots

Arrested Development: Billy Might Be An "Adult," But He's Still Growing Up (placeholder post)

🌊 Billy Will Return 🌊

The First Rule of Analyzing ST: The Upside Down Is Symbolized By Water

The Lifeguard And The Rip Current: Our First Big Hint That Billy Is Alive

The Demogorgon Is Billy’s Dark Reflection

Billy Is Going To Find The Byers

S1 E3 vs S4 E3 - A Parallel In The Making

Billy Is The Phoenix - He'll Rise From The Ashes

Billy Will Return From The Upside Down On His Own (He Won't Be Rescued)

"Surfer Boy Delivered Hot To Your Door"

🦁 Billy Is A Mythological Figure 🦁

Billy Is A Christ Figure

Billy Is The God-King Who Dies And Lives Again

Billy Is The Three Brother-Gods of Greek Mythology (placeholder post)

Mythological Tradition Demands Billy's Return (placeholder post) (placeholder post #2)

S3 Is Billy's Superhero Origin Story

Billy Is The Aragorn Of ST

🪞 Mirror Russia (pre S4 musings)🪞

If Billy Is Alive, Where Is He?

The Star Trek Connection: Proof For Mirror Russia (And Mirror Billy)

God Playing Dice: How D&D Is A Metaphor For The ST Multiverse

Vecna, the multiverse, and achieving undeath

ST Puzzle Tales: Billy Mayfield?

ST Puzzle Tales: they keep changing his name??

They keep calling him Billy Mayfield and I am about to die

⚡ Billy's Future Arc ⚡

Billy Is A Gatekeeper - Or Rather, "Keymaster" - For The Upside Down

Billy Will Come Back As A Guide For The Others

Billy Is Not A Racist, He Just Wants To Protect His Loved Ones

sidenote: even if Billy's racist, you're allowed to like him because...

Healing The Wound: Billy Will Save Max From Neil

Billy's Story Is About Recovering Lost Innocence (Billy's Sexuality: An Overview)

👥 Billy + Other Characters 👥

🌈 Eleven

ST Is Jungian, And Billy Is The Shadow

Mirror Images: Billy and El Are Reflections Of Each Other

Billy took El's powers?

The rainbow bridge

The phone booth: in S3, El hears Billy's call for help

🧟 Will

Zombie Boys: Billy And Will Are The Boys Who Came Back To Life

Why did Billy throw off the Mind Flayer's control when Will didn't?

How did the Mind Flayer force Billy to do such terrible things when it didn't force Will? / (a note on victim blaming)

Happy birthday, William(s) 🥳🧁🍰

An important Billy/Will parallel

🦸 El and Will

Billy's theme song is called "William"

Little gods: Billy, El, and Will from a theological perspective

Billy, El, and Will as reflections of each other

The "Two Man Rule" and opening gates: foreshadowing of Billy and El? Or Will and El?

How similar will Billy, El, and Will's storylines be?

👤 Others

Eddie Munson: "I Am Hell's Master..."

The American And The Survivor: Billy and Hopper

Playing The Monster: Billy and Kali

✍️ Answered Asks ✍️

Billy, Hopper, and Mike as Dorothy's companions in Wizard of Oz

Billy and the undead army

ST writers' Twitter account says weird things about Billy

What's the deal with Billy's clone?

Dacre and the Duffers are lying in interviews

Max feels guilt over Billy's death; Billy and El believe themselves to be monsters

Is Billy Number Twelve?

Dacre's IMDb credit for S4

Billy has too much thematic significance to be a side character / the Duffers made Billy a sex symbol on purpose

Billy's "redemptive death" makes no sense

Meaning of Billy's tattoo in S3?

Dacre's "coming soon" post on IG

The creepy Surfer Boy Pizza shirt

Runaway Max: was Billy dissociating in the dead-cat-on-fire scene?

Why didn't the Mind Flayer absorb Billy?

The light blinking in front of Hopper's cabin in the S4 teaser

The significance of "Dear Billy"

Max is listening to an album that's all about Billy coming back

Billy is Kas the Bloody-Handed from D&D

🕵️‍♂️ Other Observations 🕵️‍♂️

Billy's birthday

"Roads? Where we're going, we don't need roads." (a note on travel in S4)

Billy didn't want to serve the Mind Flayer

Billy's wardrobe colors are very American *cough cough*

ST may be using ring composition

✨ Miscellaneous ✨

"I can't tell you for sure I won't return, so you'll have to wait and find out." --Dacre

"A single soul dwelling in two bodies..." (deleted tweet from Dacre)

[assortedfruitsnacks212]

I would honestly love to hear your opinion on the Stranger Things finale and everything as a whole 👀

Okay, I'm finally ready to answer this.

The finale, and S5 as a whole, was just underwhelming. I didn't find anything super upsetting, but I wasn't thrilled with anything either. It was just meh.

I've known for a long time that El probably wouldn't make it out alive. So on that score I'm not mad, just disappointed 😂 It's certainly not the ending I would've written for her. Like... even if Mike's theory is true and she faked her death with Kali's help, that still makes her an exile who can never go home again. I would've preferred an ending where she loses her powers and becomes unremarkable. That wouldn't have been hard to write :p But nooooo she's a "symbol of childhood magic" or whatever. Lol grow up, Duffers.

I loved the Mind Flayer's final form, but the climactic battle was over too fast and didn't do anything super interesting. In fact, I'm not crazy about the concept of the Abyss, period. You're telling me the Mind Flayer's home planet is just a dumb yellow desert? Nahhh fam, that ain't it. If you're gonna tell me the Upside Down isn't the actual nexus of evil, and instead it's this other dimension, you gotta at least TRY to make that other dimension cool. But no it's a big fat nothingburger 😆 There weren't even any Demogorgons!

I'm still not crazy about the character of Henry/Vecna. He just doesn't land for me. He was kinda interesting in S4, but my final verdict is his roles could've been distributed among other characters that already exist. And there should've been wayyyyy more of a focus on the Mind Flayer as an alien baddie. The show hooked us with that concept, so I'm not too happy it spent the last two seasons making me worry about Some Guy.

Basically: I really like S1-3. S4 was still interesting, but it took steps in a direction I didn't like. S5 just makes me want to write my own ending. Lol

I might have more thoughts later 🫣

[cyraclove]

i am so tired

[strangerthings5theories]

Stand your ground, little lion. Stand your ground and roar.

[strangerthings5theories]

"Concealed in me is a sea: how could I hide it? How could I describe the typhoon inside?"

--Forugh Farrokhzad, excerpt of “On Loving” (tr. Sholeh Wolpé)

[strangerthings5theories]

Though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I fear no evil. For I'm the meanest motherfucker in the valley.

[strangerthings5theories]

Billy Is Alive - Meta Index

EDIT January 12 2026: Welp, S4 and S5 were disappointing… but that doesn’t mean we didn’t have fun theorizing and analyzing. Hell, I think our ideas were pretty kickass! So here’s a handy-dandy index to preserve our posts forever and ever. (Well, until the fall of Tumblr at least)

📣 Before We Begin 📣

Frequently Asked Questions

This Blog Is A Ship-Friendly Space

Where Do Sarah And I Get Our Crazy Ideas?

Why Haven’t We Seen Dacre On Set?

⭐ Billy Is A Main Character In Stranger Things ⭐

ST Asks You To Sympathize With Billy Hargrove

Billy Is Not A ‘B’ Character In ST - He’s A Main Character

Billy Is As Important To ST As Hopper And El - A Study Of Intro Shots

Arrested Development: Billy Might Be An “Adult,” But He’s Still Growing Up (placeholder post)

🌊 Billy Will Return 🌊

The First Rule of Analyzing ST: The Upside Down Is Symbolized By Water

The Lifeguard And The Rip Current: Our First Big Hint That Billy Is Alive

The Demogorgon Is Billy’s Dark Reflection

Billy Is Going To Find The Byers

S1 E3 vs S4 E3 - A Parallel In The Making

Billy Is The Phoenix - He’ll Rise From The Ashes

Billy Will Return From The Upside Down On His Own (He Won’t Be Rescued)

“Surfer Boy Delivered Hot To Your Door”

🦁 Billy Is A Mythological Figure 🦁

Billy Is A Christ Figure

Billy Is The God-King Who Dies And Lives Again

Billy Is The Three Brother-Gods of Greek Mythology (placeholder post)

Mythological Tradition Demands Billy’s Return (placeholder post) (placeholder post #2)

S3 Is Billy’s Superhero Origin Story

Billy Is The Aragorn Of ST

🪞 Mirror Russia (pre S4 musings)🪞

If Billy Is Alive, Where Is He?

The Star Trek Connection: Proof For Mirror Russia (And Mirror Billy)

God Playing Dice: How D&D Is A Metaphor For The ST Multiverse

Vecna, the multiverse, and achieving undeath

ST Puzzle Tales: Billy Mayfield?

ST Puzzle Tales: they keep changing his name??

They keep calling him Billy Mayfield and I am about to die

⚡ Billy’s Future Arc ⚡

Billy Is A Gatekeeper - Or Rather, “Keymaster” - For The Upside Down

Billy Will Come Back As A Guide For The Others

Billy Is Not A Racist, He Just Wants To Protect His Loved Ones

sidenote: even if Billy’s racist, you’re allowed to like him because…

Healing The Wound: Billy Will Save Max From Neil

Billy’s Story Is About Recovering Lost Innocence (Billy’s Sexuality: An Overview)

👥 Billy + Other Characters 👥

🌈 Eleven

ST Is Jungian, And Billy Is The Shadow

Mirror Images: Billy and El Are Reflections Of Each Other

Billy took El’s powers?

The rainbow bridge

The phone booth: in S3, El hears Billy’s call for help

🧟 Will

Zombie Boys: Billy And Will Are The Boys Who Came Back To Life

Why did Billy throw off the Mind Flayer’s control when Will didn’t?

How did the Mind Flayer force Billy to do such terrible things when it didn’t force Will? / (a note on victim blaming)

Happy birthday, William(s) 🥳🧁🍰

An important Billy/Will parallel

🦸 El and Will

Billy’s theme song is called “William”

Little gods: Billy, El, and Will from a theological perspective

Billy, El, and Will as reflections of each other

The “Two Man Rule” and opening gates: foreshadowing of Billy and El? Or Will and El?

How similar will Billy, El, and Will’s storylines be?

👤 Others

Eddie Munson: “I Am Hell’s Master…”

The American And The Survivor: Billy and Hopper

Playing The Monster: Billy and Kali

✍️ Answered Asks ✍️

Billy, Hopper, and Mike as Dorothy’s companions in Wizard of Oz

Billy and the undead army

ST writers’ Twitter account says weird things about Billy

What’s the deal with Billy’s clone?

Dacre and the Duffers are lying in interviews

Max feels guilt over Billy’s death; Billy and El believe themselves to be monsters

Is Billy Number Twelve?

Dacre’s IMDb credit for S4

Billy has too much thematic significance to be a side character / the Duffers made Billy a sex symbol on purpose

Billy’s “redemptive death” makes no sense

Meaning of Billy’s tattoo in S3?

Dacre’s “coming soon” post on IG

The creepy Surfer Boy Pizza shirt

Runaway Max: was Billy dissociating in the dead-cat-on-fire scene?

Why didn’t the Mind Flayer absorb Billy?

The light blinking in front of Hopper’s cabin in the S4 teaser

The significance of “Dear Billy”

Max is listening to an album that’s all about Billy coming back

Billy is Kas the Bloody-Handed from D&D

🕵️‍♂️ Other Observations 🕵️‍♂️

Billy’s birthday

“Roads? Where we’re going, we don’t need roads.” (a note on travel in S4)

Billy didn’t want to serve the Mind Flayer

Billy’s wardrobe colors are very American *cough cough*

ST may be using ring composition

✨ Miscellaneous ✨

“I can’t tell you for sure I won’t return, so you’ll have to wait and find out.” –Dacre

“A single soul dwelling in two bodies…” (deleted tweet from Dacre)

[strangerthings5theories]

Ayyyyyyy we finally finished fixing our broken links <33

[assortedfruitsnacks212]

Oh sweet, I just reopened my Etsy shop and I already got an inquiry for a Billy commission. That is frickin awesome 💖 Which reminds me... it's been a long time since I offered to do commissions here on Tumblr. Well, imma put that offer forward again since I literally just quit my job AND Stranger Things just ended.

Billy's my fav obviously, but I'll draw any character you want. These days I'm especially interested in drawing Max, El, Hopper, Nancy, and Eddie.

Examples of my work below 💖💖

Rates are negotiable, but for reference: a small color pencil portrait (a little larger than 5x7 inches, like the Billy portrait pictured above) would usually cost $220 USD.

If that's too rich for your blood, you can always support me by ordering a print from my Etsy!

[byjove]

we all watched season 1 of Stranger Things and were like “that was an interesting premise with compelling characters! I wonder what they’ll do with it!” and the Duffer brothers were like “we don’t know either”

[strangerthings5theories]

My big takeaway from this entire experience, pre-S4 theorizing to present, is that... well, if you want to see a particular kind of story, seize the reins and make it yourself. Write it, draw it, speak it, whatever you want. Don't wait for anyone else to do it, and do NOT ask for permission. Just because someone has a Netflix deal and a zillion dollar budget doesn't mean they're better at storytelling than you.

If someone else's story disappoints you, use that as a signpost to discover what truly matters to you. What did you want from their story and why? Follow that line of questioning and you'll find a dragon's hoard of treasure that is yours and yours alone.

Thanks to this show, I found my dragon's hoard. Yeah I'm disappointed, but I don't regret a second of my analyzing and theorizing. I'll be exploring this cavern of treasures for a long long time to come 💖

[strangerthings5theories]

Oh and in case anyone was wondering, YES I'm gonna leave all my posts up! And my index (though I need to finish revamping the links)! I'm proud of all the ideas we created and all the fun discussions we had 💖

You're free to use any of those ideas in your own fanworks. I posted them in the first place because I wanted to share :) I can't possibly use them all lol

[strangerthings5theories]

My big takeaway from this entire experience, pre-S4 theorizing to present, is that... well, if you want to see a particular kind of story, seize the reins and make it yourself. Write it, draw it, speak it, whatever you want. Don't wait for anyone else to do it, and do NOT ask for permission. Just because someone has a Netflix deal and a zillion dollar budget doesn't mean they're better at storytelling than you.

If someone else's story disappoints you, use that as a signpost to discover what truly matters to you. What did you want from their story and why? Follow that line of questioning and you'll find a dragon's hoard of treasure that is yours and yours alone.

Thanks to this show, I found my dragon's hoard. Yeah I'm disappointed, but I don't regret a second of my analyzing and theorizing. I'll be exploring this cavern of treasures for a long long time to come 💖

[strangerthings5theories]

Lame 😂😂😂

[strangerthings5theories]

Do you think this rise of Billy/Dacre BTS pics right before Vol. 2 (posted even by Shawn levy), along with the realease of some new merch related to him, could mean something?

I think the photos are just production folks feeling nostalgic at the end of the show. It's been a big part of their lives, ya know? 💖 As for merch, businesses are counting on fans feeling nostalgic too, imo. So I wouldn't attach any meaning to it, personally.

[strangerthings5theories]

Ok, just finished my second viewing of S5 Vol 1, and I was really slapped in the face by Vecna's words to Will in episode 4: "Some minds don't belong in this world. They belong in mine."

Two things about that:

(1) Given the fact that Henry clearly has some wounds of his own, it sounds to me like he's creating his own twisted version of heaven: a place where no one suffers. What this "heaven" looks like is yet to be seen. Regardless, given his affinity for the outcasts and the broken (I keep thinking of him wiping a tear off Chrissy's cheek when he has her cornered), it seems clear he believes he's doing the right thing. Yes, people have died along the way, but the end justifies the means. If he succeeds, no one will suffer anymore.

(2) His comment to Will suggests we're going to encounter other minds he has already taken from the world. Billy and Eddie are my top two candidates, of course, but the story could revisit others as well. And we're supposed to understand them all as people he judged as being too weak for the world. People he decided had suffered too much (like him?) and needed to be taken away for their own good.

Thematically, all of this leads naturally to a climax where his victims retaliate somehow. Like Will bucking against his mom's overprotectiveness, Vecna's victims will clap back at him for taking the choice away from them. Yes, they've suffered, but their lives are their own. They should be free to suffer, take risks, fail, and worse, without him interfering.

[strangerthings5theories]

I’d like to throw my clown nose your way with this observation—

The fact that Vecna specifically calls into question Billy’s bravery is interesting to me, especially taking into account the ongoing theme of the Cowardly Lion (and the broader world of the Wizard of Oz) you’ve pointed out. It’s almost like Billy’s being called to prove that specific virtue again 👀.

There’s a part of me that’s thinking S5 might be the ultimate Wizard of Oz crucible for El and certain companions. I mean, there’s a Wizard of Oz poster hanging very obviously in Max’s room during Vol. 1—seems like that might be where we’re headed. But I dunno. Thoughts?

Omg you're so right!! I totally forgot about that! 😭😭 Vecna's accusations of Billy already felt like an opening for Billy to come back and prove himself. But the Cowardly Lion association is just next level.

Billy is connected to "Somewhere Over the Rainbow" too, by his most crucial scenes in S3 (the storm in his mind, Starcourt). And S4 ends with the group standing in a field of rainbow-colored spring flowers. (Something something Billy as a Christ figure and Christ's resurrection symbolizing the return of spring, etc, etc)

Goddammit y'all. I try not to hope but they keep reeling me back in 😭😭

[toobusybeingdelulu]

You guys have basically predicted the Wizard of Oz vibes in S5!! (With max and Holly’s plotline, in this case)

Damn so proud of you

[strangerthings5theories]

Hehe thanks 😆💖 I just finished my second viewing of S5 Vol 1, and it was fun seeing even more hints and parallels this time around!

[toobusybeingdelulu]

Ehm… What do you mean that Dacre has removed his goodbye post to Billy from 2019 on insta??

[strangerthings5theories]

[strangerthings5theories]

Been re-reading a lot of your posts as I search for new links for your index. It's coming along, but one thing I noticed has been stuck in my head since I saw it, and now I cannot get my brain to quit chewing on it. Maybe it has no significance and is a total reach, but it's still very interesting to me.

This post, "The Lifeguard and the Rip Current" (www.tumblr.com/strangerthings5theories/651134251648122880) had something in it that really stood out to me, more so than it did on any other reads of it I'd ever done pre-volume 1.

Specifically, this image is what caught my eye and planted the connection:

Sure, rip currents definitely aren't that exact shape every time irl, BUT that consistent shape in depictions of them reminds me SO much of these two shots from vol. 1 of season 5:

I think I'm going crazy. Lmao.

But since it was your post that caused me to connect these dots in the first place, I'd love to hear your thoughts. Coincidence? Am I totally reaching? Or do you think the Duffers really are that clever and themed the upside down that way, intending for it to further play into the wormhole themes in future seasons? 🤔

I think it could be intentional, absolutely. Once you realize the Upside Down is themed after water/the ocean/etc, the parallels become far-reaching in a way that can't be accidental. The production had to make choices again and again that reinforce them: set dressing, set lighting, costume design, dialogue... It's all there, and the production could only make those choices consistently if it was a top-down decision.

Meanwhile, the similarities between space and the ocean aren't hard to spot. They're dark, largely unexplored, and contain phenomena that mystify and terrify. In storytelling, they often become metaphors for the unconscious mind (the unknown within) or anything beyond our experience (the unknown without). In this context, it feels quite natural to use ocean phenomena as a metaphor for space phenomena, or vice versa.

So yeah, this isn't beyond the Duffers' ability. They're not dumb - they've put a lot of thought into this stuff.