This user bites!

[anti-willo-miku]

A thorough debunk of “transids”

To begin, let’s define what “transid” actually is. According to the official transid website, “A TransID person is an individual who uses identities different from those assigned to them by society based on their physical appearance or bodily experiences.” I will be using this definition as well, with one minor change. “A TransID person is an individual who uses non-gender identities different from those assigned to them by society based on their physical appearance or bodily experiences.”

As for why I made the change, transid advocates often lump transgender identities into their label, and have a tendency to use them as a shield for criticism. However, the core difference between transid and transgender is that gender is an experience based on an internal sense of self, and transids often attempt to claim experiences based on cultural, neurological, or otherwise external things.

The transid.org website lists 18 categories of transids. Because I am thorough, I will be going through each of these below the cut.

!WARNING! certain sections may discuss triggering content, such as:

Bigotry (present in all sections)

ED/weight discussion (in “transbody” section)

Violence (in transharmful and transharmed)

Sexual violence, including rape myths and stereotypes (Especially present in transharmed, mentioned briefly in transharmful)

Transracial/Trace

Perhaps the most mainstream transid, and the one I was able to find the most scholarly works on (including Jana Cattien’s "Against ‘Transracialism’: Revisiting the Debate", which I found very helpful in formulating my arguments). Transracial is defined as, “An umbrella term for those who identify with a race that differs from one's ancestry.” the problem with transracial (at least to me), is two things:

1. The false comparison of race to gender

2. The robbing of the term from transracial adoptees.

To begin, race and gender are not remotely as comparable as transid advocates will have you think they are. Studies in neuroscience and psychology show that gender is based in an internal sense of self, separate from biological sex. One study on transgender individuals showed that brain activation when seeing bodies aligned with their gender identity is the same as cisgender individuals, regardless of whether that body matches up with their biological sex. Racially identity is conceptually different, based on external factors such as ancestry, culture, and history.

It is because of this very difference that the second issue with transracial comes in. The term itself was stolen from transracial adoptees. A transracial adoptee is a person raised by parents of a different race or ethnicity. These people (especially people of color adopted by white families) struggle with identity, racial isolation, and systemic trauma. Stealing this term and changing it to mean something its not only furthers this isolation.

Back in 2015 ex-NAACP chapter president Rachel Dolezal “came out” as transracial, and transracial adoptees spoke out about this. An ABC news article from that time quotes somebody saying that, “‘Many members of the White press have appropriated and co-opted a deeply meaningful, historical term - transracial - from the adoptee community,” Kevin H. Vollmers, Executive Director of Gazillion Strong, told NBC News. “They’re treating ‘transracial’ as though it’s a new thing. As a transracial adoptee, this is, at the very least, a slap in the face,’”

Transbody

Transbody is defined as, “a label for those who identify with having a body type, organs, or some other physical features that they do not currently have.” While this generally falls closer to the “harmless but also useless” category of transids (as opposed to the “genuinely dangerous/bigoted) there was one thing I found concerning while looking through the list of “transbody” identities.

A label known as “edweight,” defined as “a term for those who are transweight because of their eating disorder, or whose transweight identity is otherwise affected by one's ED.” To reduce behaviors of eating disorders down a simple “transweight identity” and not behavior indicative of concern or worry is disturbing. Keep this pattern of reducing mental disorders to identities akin to transness in your head for now, it’ll be discussed upon later.

Transfashion

Transfashion is defined as, “Those who want to be apart of a different aesthetic or fashion.”

In the previous section, I described transids as falling under a spectrum from “useless but harmless” to “dangerous and or bigoted.” While I have nothing to say about this particular transid, I’m going go over my problems with these “harmless but useless” types of ids, and I’ll reference it back when we get to other categories like it.

Radqueers tend to hide behind these identities when transid is critiqued, ignoring the real problems surrounding them.

To add onto that, grouping “identities” like these and real groups like transgender people together under one label is inherently minimizing. The experience of somebody who wants to change their fashion style is nowhere close to the experience of a transgender person.

Because I don’t wish to repeat myself, I will be saying “See: Transfashion,” whenever a “harmless but useless” transid comes up.

Transharmful

Transharmful and its counterpart (transharmed) is one of the more controversial identities within the radqueer community, and for good reason. Transharmful is “an umbrella term for those who identify with some view or lifestyle that carries inherent harm, such as violence or bigotry,” Basically anybody can understand why this isn’t okay.

However, I’d like to bring up a few points against this that most people might have not yet considered.

There is a huge problem with people who identify with being murderers and rapists (the most common themes amongst transharmful people, as almost all of them behave around the same) and trans people. In a world where trans people are consistently painted as dangerous predators by those in power, it’s actively harmful to the transgender community to pretend like transharmfuls are a part of it.

These identities also cause harm to people with intrusive thoughts about hurting others by treating it as an identity, instead of acknowledging that you are not your thoughts. This line of thinking can be harmful to those with OCD, or intrusive thoughts in general.

Transplural

Transplural is defined as “is a large umbrella term describing anyone with the experience of feeling like they should be plural or desire to be plural. It falls under the transid umbrella, and can refer to any form of plurality, including traumagenic, endogenic, disordered, and non-disordered plurality.”

My arguments against transplural are similar to my arguments against endogenic systems, but I’d like to address transplurals who wish to transition into CDD systems. Using neural imaging scans, it revealed that alters within did systems exhibit different patterns of brain activity, even when compared to actors attempting to imitate DID. So no matter how hard these people try, they cannot actually transition to having a CDD.

We will talk more on the neurology of different mental disorders when I get to transdisabled, as I feel it’s more fitting there.

Transsex

…is another pathetic attempt by the radqueer community to rope transgender people into their bullshit, but this time with some added intersexism as well.

Transsex is almost always used by radqueers to identify as transintersex, despite the fact that doing so actively ignores the lived experience of intersex people. Radqueers often argue that it’s akin to transgender people seeking gender affirming surgery, but thats simply not true. Intersex people and transgender people may have similar experiences in some areas, but they aren’t the same.

Transabled

Transabled is a term that leeches off of Body Integrity Dysphoria, where an individual experiences an intense desire to be physically disabled (e.g., amputation, paralysis).

Radqueers have taken this idea and distorted it into something its not. The transid.org website frequently references BID in their definitions for transbled, despite the fact that BID is specific to physical disabilities (particularly amputation), and not mental conditions.

I will admit that you can acquire certain physical disabilities (often through through acts of self harm or mutilation) and doing so would make you physically disabled (general you used) (and please keep in mind that amputation (what radqueers would consider “transitioning” for biid) is considered a last resort)

The same cannot be said about mental health. In the transplural section, I mentioned the neurological differences in the brains of people with did. This is true of many mental health conditions. I’ve provided some links on these differences in the sources. Mental health conditions do not come out of nowhere.

Within the trans disabled community, theres the concept of null-disorder, in which a person identifies as not having a disorder. While I can sympathize heavily with the desire to not experience mental health issues, the radqueer community is so anti-recovery anyways I doubt anything good (like pushing for help or resources) is coming out of those “nullids”.

Transcharacter/Transperson

transcharacter: see transfashion.

As for transperson.. well.. /j. (On a serious note, transperson reminds me of the bah packs of real people. Theres definitely a way that this could be used against people with paranoia of being replaced or watched.)

Transgender

I despise that radqueers tried to bring transgenders into their bullshit, and normally I would just skip this section, but I did see something in their list of transgender identities. “Transtransgender,” where a non trans person identifies as being trans.

In my eyes, this is transphobic, as it implies that trans people are not the gender they identify as. If you are a cis male identifying as “transtransmale,” you are just a cis man.

(NOTE: I am trans. This is not me saying that trans experiences are the exact same as cis experiences)

Translocation

Transitioning to a different location? I’m trans livinginaworldwithnoradqueers,,, /hj. But seriously, this is another harmless but useless. See transfashion.

Transpower/Transskill

Say it with me, harmless but useless!

Transspecies

While I don’t know much, word of mouth has told me that transspecies was a term stolen from alterhuman and therian spaces by radqueers.

Transage

This one is complicated because I can understand feeling like your mentality stuck at a certain age due to PTSD or age regression (however I doubt that is why a lot of radqueers identify with that). When I talked to radqueers about this, they seem to have gotten the idea that age is a social construct. This is not true. Your age is defined by the amount of time you have existed, not your maturity level or intelligence or anything of that matter. While certain maturity levels, cognitive functionings, or behaviors are associated with certain ages, that is because of observed patterns of behavior of those age groups.

Adding onto the trauma aspect, being stuck at a certain mental age due to traumatic experiences isn’t an identity in the way radqueers frame it as. It’s something you can (and deserve to) heal from. (General you used).

Transexperience

Harmless but useless (most of the time). Several labels concern me, but mostly because the cross into ideas mentioned above.

Transharmed

Transharmed, and identities like it, equate the lived experiences of abuse victims into an identity.

(I’m going to be speaking mainly about people who identify as transharmed for any form of sexual abuse, as that is the most common form I see these people use the label). As if being a victim of abuse is a queer label or identity.

I’m going to be quite blunt here, a majority of “transharmed” people identify as such due to a kink or fetish for being treated that way. And frankly, I would rather these people go into kink or fetish communities than claim to be victims. Unlike the radqueer community, these spaces contain safewords, guardrails, and bar minors from entering.

Society is filled with rape apologist and victim blaming logic, and claiming to be a victim of a crime you are not only hurts real survivors who are often accused of lying.

To add on, I’ve noticed from observing the tags that a lot of “transharmed” individuals fall back on rape myths or other harmful rhetoric. This only further contributes to my theory that these people do not listen to victims of abuse, and instead fall back on preconceived (and often malicious) rhetoric.

In the case where a transharmed person actually has experienced that abuse before, that is not an identity. It is something you can, and deserve to, recover from. Even if somebody isn’t mentally ready to recover, internalizing being harmed as a core part of your identity will make recovery harder if they choose to do so. A major step in my own recovery was teaching myself to be a person again.

Transmentality

Can fall between the range of “harmless but useless” (Just play it…?) to “Paradox of tolerance case study A”. The radqueer community should really learn about the nazi bar analogy.

Transreglious/Transfaith

Generally harmless but useless UNLESS the identity is specific to cults. Then it falls under the same criticisms I have for transharmed.

Transtime

Harmless but useless unless you are specifically transtime because you wish to return to an oppressive time period. Then see my opinions on transharmed/harmful.

Sources

All definitions and lists of transids found on https://transid.org.

Transracial:

Cattien, Jana. “Against ‘Transracialism’: Revisiting the Debate.” Hypatia 34.4 (2019): 713–735. Web.

Majid, D S Adnan et al. “Neural Systems for Own-body Processing Align with Gender Identity Rather Than Birth-assigned Sex.” Cerebral cortex (New York, N.Y. : 1991) vol. 30,5 (2020): 2897-2909. doi:10.1093/cercor/bhz282

“Adoptees to Rachel Dolezal: You’re Not Transracial.” NBC News, 17 June 2015, www.nbcnews.com/news/asian-america/adoptees-rachel-dolezal-youre-not-transracial-n377121.

Transharmful:

“You Are Not Your Thoughts.” International OCD Foundation, 10 Nov. 2017, iocdf.org/blog/2017/11/10/you-are-not-your-thoughts/. ‌

Transplural:

Lebois, Lauren A M et al. “"I Am Not I": The Neuroscience of Dissociative Identity Disorder.” Biological psychiatry vol. 91,3 (2022): e11-e13. doi:10.1016/j.biopsych.2021.11.004

Schlumpf, Yolanda R et al. “Dissociative part-dependent biopsychosocial reactions to backward masked angry and neutral faces: An fMRI study of dissociative identity disorder.” NeuroImage. Clinical vol. 3 54-64. 12 Jul. 2013, doi:10.1016/j.nicl.2013.07.002

Transsex:

While I’m normally against linking tumblr or social media, I do recommend searching up intersexism and listening to what intersex people have to say. ‌

Transabled:

‌ “BIID (Body Integrity Identity Disorder).” Cleveland Clinic, 22 Mar. 2024, my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/body-integrity-identity-disorder-biid.

‌Nadeau, Nadia. “Successful treatment of body integrity dysphoria with amputation: A case report.” Clinical case reports vol. 12,4 e8720. 27 Mar. 2024, doi:10.1002/ccr3.8720

Donovan, Alex P A, and M Albert Basson. “The neuroanatomy of autism - a developmental perspective.” Journal of anatomy vol. 230,1 (2017): 4-15. doi:10.1111/joa.12542

Horn, Karen, et al. “Neurobiology of Mental Disorders.” Fundamentals of Clinical Psychiatry: A Practical Handbook. Ed. Marsal Sanches and Jair C. Soares. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 2025. 27–38. Print.

Transspecies:

Again, I’m going on word of mouth here, if anybody could provide some sources on radqueers taking transspecies from alterhuman communities, please reblog!

Transage:

Dictionary.com. “The Definition of Age.” Www.dictionary.com, 2018, www.dictionary.com/browse/age.

Marie, Simone. “Emotionally Stuck at the Age of Trauma: Signs, Causes, and Healing.” Psych Central, 5 Jan. 2022, psychcentral.com/ptsd/signs-trauma-has-you-stuck.

Clinic, Cleveland. “Age Regression: What It Is, Causes, Signs & Treatment.” Cleveland Clinic, 16 Jan. 2026, my.clevelandclinic.org/health/symptoms/age-regression.

‌Transharmed:

"Victim Blaming" (PDF). Canadian Resource Centre for Victims of Crime.

Bieneck, Steffen; Krahé, Barbara (June 2011). "Blaming the Victim and Exonerating the Perpetrator in Cases of Rape and Robbery: Is There a Double Standard?". Journal of Interpersonal Violence. 26 (9): 1785–1797.

“10 Myths about Sexual Assault.” CRCC, clevelandrapecrisis.org/resources/resource-library-2/featured/rape-myths/.

[scrybe-of-death]

Please stop and read for a few minutes to help support stigmatized people with dissociative disorders

This isn't for a financial cause, a political statement, or an obligation on your part. You are fully allowed to scroll by. However, you reading and reblogging this post could help save people from falling into ableist ideology. At the very least, please read the TLDRs under each section of this post to understand the gist of the situation, and share

But first, some background, and a vocabulary lesson

What is this post about?

This post is a PSA to spread awareness on the topic of endogenic systems and the Empowered Multiples Movement. This post is strictly against their ideals and is an in-depth explanation of how people in these movements came to be that way, why their actions are harmful to people with dissociative disorders, and what you can do to prevent their ideology from spreading and harming others.

What's the vocabulary we need to know? And what is a complex dissociative disorder?

A complex dissociative disorder is a disorder caused in the developmental stages of a child's life (ages around 4-10 years old, sometimes younger) where the brain develops personality. It is exclusively caused by trauma being inflicted on the child that causes them to dissociate to help them tolerate the trauma or memories of the trauma.

It is a covert disorder, which means it hides its symptoms from its holder, making it difficult for many people to recognize that they are systems or seek help on the matter.

(For extra clarification, this definition is for complex dissociative disorders, and does not include dp/dr or those under that umbrella)

And some vocab...

System A broad term to refer to someone who claims to have multiple personality states. Despite originally being medical terminology, this term has been stolen by endogenic people.

Singlet A term to refer to those without dissociative disorders, whose minds present as one connected personality state without dissociative barriers. The average person is this way.

pwCDD Stands for 'person with a complex dissociative disorder' or 'people with complex dissociative disorders'. Refers to anyone who presents as having a dissociative disorder.

Traumagenic A term for systems who claims to have their system or personality states borne from trauma. This term has been forced upon people with CDDs in order to differentiate themselves from endogenic systems.

Endogenic An umbrella term for someone who claims to not have their system or personality states borne from trauma, but from some other reason. Some additions in this umbrella include willogenic, tulpagenic, etc.

Final Fusion A term to refer to when a pwCDD has their final two personality states merge with each other to create one distinct personality state without dissociative or memory barriers, after intensive therapy and cooperation to integrate these states and remove barriers. While not every system wants to have final fusion, it is generally considered a good thing to look towards and a sign of recovery.

But how do we know that endogenic systems are not real or connected to pwCDDs?

TLDR: Because all psychiatric evidence points against the correlation of endogenic systems and dissociative systems, and there is not much information or proper studies about them existing at all.

The criteria for dissociative identity disorder (DID), the most well known dissociative disorder, is as follows (according to the DSM-5):

The existence of two or more distinct identities (or “personality states”).

The distinct identities are accompanied by changes in behavior, memory and thinking.

The signs and symptoms may be observed by others or reported by the individual. Ongoing gaps in memory about everyday events, personal information and/or past traumatic events.

The symptoms cause significant distress or problems in social, occupational or other areas of functioning.

In addition, the disturbance must not be a normal part of a broadly accepted cultural or religious practice. As noted in the DSM-5-TR1, in many cultures around the world, experiences of being possessed are a normal part of spiritual practice and are not dissociative disorders.

The above statement says it all. Endogenic systems could be considered disturbances created by cultural (see: endo spaces online) or religious (see: the theft of tulpamancy and creation of 'tulpagenic' by endogenic systems online) practices. They do not classify as dissociative disorders and therefore should stay out of areas intended for pwCDDs, and not use the medical terminology for those people.

Why are endogenic systems harmful?

TLDR: Because endogenic systems steal medical terminology and prevent real systems from discovering themselves and seeking help, as well as show an incorrect and romanticized view of dissociative disorders

Endogenic systems break into system spaces by taking medical terminology like 'parts', 'system', 'alters', 'personalities', 'inner world/mindscape', 'fragment', 'persecutor', the list goes on. Endogenic systems take these terms and often misinterpret them, because all of these terms can only manifest in a person if they are a pwCDD who has experienced trauma in their childhood.

Additionally, endogenic systems often spread ideology in their spaces that pertains to hiding or ignoring specific parts of this identity to pwCDDs; an example is how endogenic systems are often against people looking into therapy or recovery, or the idea of final fusion, because endogenic systems do not see dissociative disorders as a DISSOCIATIVE disorder, but as an ALTER disorder (i.e they only care for representing the symptom of having other people in their brain). An alter has no reason to exist if not to protect oneself from trauma... and if you don't have trauma that formed your system, it's impossible to form one.

Endogenic systems often romanticize this idea of being a system: they want to have 'friends in their head' who 'help them with tasks', but are unwilling to accept or acknowledge the other symptoms that often come with being a system, like strong dissociation, memory loss, anxiety, delusions, suicidal and self harm ideation, chronic nightmares, chronic headaches/migraines/stomachaches, and more.

This creates not only a misrepresentation of CDDs to pwCDDs, but also to other people online witnessing it, which makes people take the disorder less seriously. An example might be back in 2020 when lots of people on TikTok were faking DID: when people hear the word, they think of people listing their alters and not representing any of the grittier symptoms, and are less likely to listen to these traumatized people because of this recollection of endogenic systems.

All of this combined leads back to the Empowered Multiples Movement, where the idea of endogenic systems started.

Wait, what's the 'Empowered Multiplicity Movement'?

TLDR: it's a movement from the 1990s-2000s that spawned the idea of endogenic systems and advocated for the removal of DID from medical spaces and the DSM-5

Endogenic systems have had a history stretching back to the 1960s where their term was coined by Sigmund Freud (here it was not referring to this idea of systems, but it is the first known mention of the word 'endogenic' in history).

30 or 40 years after the fact, 'Empowered Multiples' began to show up online, where a few select people began to use the term 'endogenic' to refer to themselves as systems without dissociative disorders.

They also advocated for the removal of DID (or, at the time, MPD) from the DSM, said that those who identified with the term DID or CDD labels were inferior and faking, and would encourage people to write papers and articles against the idea of DID and boycott the term online. They specifically used the term 'natural' to refer to being a system.

It's important to know that this was not a movement borne from love. This movement is, palpably, born from the hatred and purposeful stigmatization of people with DID. The people who spawned the term likely never had system experiences or even fully considered themselves true systems, but did this to hurt people who did.

Why should I, a singlet, care?

Because your care (and reblog/share) can help spread this message to those who need it, and let pwCDDs know that they are safe around you/that you won't tolerate ableism.

Those who have experienced dissociative symptoms, but have never cared to seek out more information or a diagnosis because of the misinformation spread by endogenics, could find this post helpful and end up discovering more about themselves, improving their quality of life significantly. If that's you, and you've been relating to the experiences presented here, I highly recommend you look into scholarly/medical sources and look around CDD spaces for more information.

Why should I, an endogenic system, denounce that title?

Because your title is inherently born from the idea that systems are a fake disorder to make fun of, disrespect, misrepresent, and stigmatize.

If you are experiencing symptoms of a CDD, you should look into medical/scholarly sources for more information. You should not fall for the idea that your trauma was "not enough" for you to be a system. You should not fall for the idea that you didn't "have" trauma. Even if you can't remember your trauma, if you experience symptoms of a CDD, you should look into that more deeply. It may help save your life in the future, or improve your quality of life.

For those of you who are endogenic not because you experience symptoms, but because you want to be, I highly recommend you rethink that idea and look into subjects like kinning, alterhumanity, otherkin, fictionkin, etc., all of which are terms for non-disordered people who might have similar (but not the same) experiences as pwCDDs.

Thank you for reading

And a reminder to please reblog if you found this helpful or informative. Let your disordered friends know that they are loved and welcomed in your community without the stigma spread from endogenics being forced onto them.

If you have anything to add, please feel free to in reblogs or comments

[anti-willo-stu]

hi ive been too ashamed to really mention this much but this blog is partly made as a way to try and refute the damage i've done to the CDD community by once being pro-endo. my ableist behavior was completely unacceptable, and despite being misinformed, i still was in support of a hate group. i'm here to try to remedy that & to ensure i have outgrown such ableism in any way i can!! i hope i can come to find a place in the anti-endo community in the coming years and feel so free to not interact if youre uncomfortable with me being an ex-pro it is very understandable

[sunsetlychee]

Thought as I would reblog this as I didn’t expect to see anyone else with such a similar experience to me…

It’s nice to see other people talk about their experiences so you know you aren’t the only one, and just for some context I also used to be pro-Endo. If anyone else is in a similar boat just know my blog is a safe place for you guys, or if your pro-Endo and thinking about leaving the community I believe my asks are on if you have any questions

sending (platonic) love to OP <3 you’ve got this

[izkaipie]

Are we deadass?

[sunsetlychee]

I’m sorry WHAT?! Some person genuinely thought it was a good idea to coin WHAT?!

[sunsetlychee]

this is your reminder to

Drink water if you haven’t already today, and if you have was it at least a few cups? If not please go grab one, if you don’t enjoy water or have a hard time with it sparkling water, juices and other beverages are just as fine. Just whatever gets you hydrated, dehydration is no joke!

check the time, do you have any plans you need to get ready for? Is it past or just before a meal time? Were you supposed to do the laundry or your homework 2.5 hours ago? Just start it even if you don’t feel like doing the entire thing right now, five minutes of work is better than not getting started at all

Take any medication

set alarms to wake up tomorrow if needed, whether for work, school, or any event in general

plug in any electronic devices especially if it’s your phone, laptop, tablet, chroomebook, earbuds, headphones, noise machine, lamp, night light, LED lights, AAC device, any electronic mobility aids or aids in general

if you haven’t in the past 24 hours now’s a good time to do any hygiene that your feeling up to. Stuff like brushing your teeth, flossing if your really feeling motivated, taking a shower, brushing your hair, deodorant, changing your clothes, especially if you can’t remember the last time you washed your bra or hoodie. Wash your hands, change your pad/tampon/period product (please!!! Especially if it’s a tampon)

check your messages from anyone you might have left on read such as family members, partner/s, friends, and etc. (unless if for some reason you left them on read on purpose, if that’s the case than ignore this! This is only meant to remind you of people you don’t want to ignore!)

pack a lunch for tomorrow

Finish your homework or that essay due at 11:59pm tonight

email your teacher if you have to turn in any work late

open a window and get some fresh air!!

do some self care! Light a candle, eat something sweat or savory, watch a comfort streamer or hug a plushie

if you’ve been working for more than an hour straight and are able to, take a break! Grab some water and a snack or do a quick few stretches to get your mind turning again

if you live with family members, a partner, or roommate/s that you love go remind them by telling them you care about them, ask if they’d like a hug or ask them how they’re doing

[anti-willo-solivan]

Your reasoning for claiming tulpamancy isn’t plurality is baffling. You define plurality in the context of dissociative disorders, as a “involuntary response to overwhelming stress” but plural was coined to distinguish itself from dissociative disorders: https://healthymultiplicity.com/loonybrain/Info/VickisPowerOfNaming.html. And plural as defined by the plural community is “the state of having multiple headmates sharing one body” https://pluralpedia.org/w/Plurality. Academic work also use similiar definitions “a plural system (more than one person sharing a body) https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S246874992300042X

Tulpas are widely understood to be their own people in the community. In the FAQ of the official subreddit it defines tulpas as “The simplest way to describe a tulpa is simply another person who was created intentionally/unintentionally through repeated interaction and shares a body and mind with their creator” https://www.reddit.com/r/Tulpas/wiki/faq/ (Note, tulpamamcy isn’t always a cultural thing, it can be done accidently.) so yes, by definition tulpamancy is a form of plurality.

Academic articles make this connection too. For example this study: https://pubs.sciepub.com/rpbs/5/2/1/index.html#:~:text=This%20paper%20opposes%20this%20bias,conscious%20entities%20within%20the%20mind. “by analyzing one form of plurality in consciousness: tulpamancy.”

Usually, I ignore these asks if they cite sources like reddit or pluralpedia of all things, but I'll hear you out for this.

Our host is currently taking a break, so, you're stuck with me—Geo. Woohoo. Just use it/its for me.

First off. Your argument centers around community definitions, philosophical considerations, and sociological observations—and crucially not scientific evidence, and that's a very important distinction I would like to make here.

Secondly, citing Pluralpedia, FAQ on Reddit, or plural community jargon does not prove that tulpamancy is scientifically recognized as plurality. It is completely permissible for any social community to call themselves whatever they like, but this self-definition is not a form of validation. The pluralpedia is a community user edited wiki and FAQ's on subreddit are written by the community. That doesn’t mean that tulpamancy is endorsed in clinical terms, recognized neurologically or have any diagnostic confirmation.

The fact you bring up that 'plural' term was created precisely to separate itself from dissociative conditions ironically weakens your argument more than anything else. If the plural community originally created it precisely to be separate from dissociative disorders, that would mean the plural community itself defines it as a social or community identity, not as a recognized natural occurance. Creating a broader social concept of "plurality" doesn't retroactively mean DID and OSDD now have separate medical definition by the creation of a social construct.

The academic papers that you provided, don't prove what you think they prove. Almost all modern studies that use the word 'plurality' do so in sociological, anthropological, philosophical, and identity research looking into online communities and subjective experience.

Sociological papers tend to analyze self-identifications and community formation in online environments, analyze the narration of individual experiences, or the creation of meaning within internet sub-cultures; this is not evidence that the research team are asserting the metaphysical or neurological validity of participants claims. If research was carried out on communities of self-identified vampires, reality shifters, or otherkin then this would not be proof that they were literally vampires, traveling realities or non-human beings—it would simply be proof that such a community existed, and thus was socially viable to study. This applies directly here. Descriptions of how communities define themselves does not prove the existence of multiple sentient individuals inhabiting a single brain.

The SciEP paper concerning tulpamancy is also much weaker evidence than you claim. This is not a high-level clinical or neuroscience journal; it is rather more theoretical and philosophical about consciousness and subjective experience, and does not indicate separate neurologies, separate identities in the brain, or evidence for clinical non-pathological multiplicity. The most this paper does is assert that people describe experiences which are considered plurality, and this merits further philosophical exploration of these experiences. It does not provide evidence of tulpamancy as a scientifically established non-disordered psychological phenomenon.

There is also an important issue that you are conflating the broad social use of "plurality" in the online plural community with its clinical interpretation as a dissociative disorder. Official psychiatric conditions such as DID and OSDD are classified as trauma related dissociative disorders recognized by DSM and ICD. They are widely acknowledged as having extremely high prevalence and correlation with traumatic development, typically overwhelming trauma in childhood. The plural community use of "plurality" is broad to describe disparate types of experience which include the notion of tulpas, soulbonds, spiritual systems, RP-based identity's and various other internally claimed headmates. Widening of this social term doesn't retroactively change the established definitions of psychological trauma, the same definition of multiplicity, in clinical settings.

The history of the tulpa argument is also quite troublesome. Modern day internet tulpae have very little in common with the original Tibetan Buddhist concepts, but are primarily influenced by Western interpretations of concepts like Tibetan Tulku's and emanation based beliefs, transformed in to creating intentionally autonomous other people in your mind that you interact with through repeated imagagination-led visualization; not original Tibetan concepts of consciously generated masters who are recognised as reincarnations.

Overall the overwhelming evidence your provided did not claim what you said they did, at the end of it all none of them prove existence of "endogenic plurality", at most your evidence does show that:

- Some individuals claim to experience things that they perceive as plurality

- Social groups around these ideas exist on the internet

- Some people intentionally actively create their own incredibly anthropomorphic internal companion(s)

- These phenomena may carry psychological meaning for those people who experience them.

This is not equivalent to evidence of multiple people existing in your brain or evidence of non-pathological multiplicity.

Let's see what ELSE you said about us.

“Omg I can not with this person. They said tulpamancy wasn't plurality and I corrected them using community resources + academic ones to explain that by the definition of plurality tulpamancy is plurality. And then they vagued me complaining about using Reddit and pluralpedia as a source. These are not medical terms their definitions are the ones the community uses. I swear anti-endos don't know how words work.”

You keep shifting your words throughout the argument and you are unintentionally proving my point. Your first tactic was to use academic papers and dissociate terminology to try and argue that tulpamancy is recognized as a valid form of plurality on par with DID/OSDD, but then you suddenly declare "these aren't medical terms anyway."

If plurality is just a social term made up by the community, then you cannot use sociology/philosophy papers and treat them as evidence that endogenic systems are fact.

Yes, people can choose to use words socially to mean what they want. Nobody is claiming plural communities don't use the word "plurality" broadly. The actual point is that many of these online communities and concepts do blur the lines between social identity and clinical dissociation, and stating that "this is what the community calls it" doesn't prove it's medically recognized as on the same level as any other form of plurality.

This is the whole reason I'm calling out Reddit and Pluralpedia as weak evidence. They're good at showing what words the community use and how they define things within their own framework but they are not evidence of scientific legitimacy. If the only point you're trying to make is that "the community uses this word for it", that's a social claim, not a scientific one, and you cannot claim that social definition overrides existing psychiatric understandings of dissociation.

And again, none of your papers actually prove your point, they are all primarily sociology/philosophy papers dealing with identity, subjective experiences, and internet communities. Being in an internet community to write about it doesn't mean you agree with and validate every belief those people hold. A researcher can write a sociology paper about tulpamancy without claiming there are literally 2+ human beings living in one head.

And, truthfully, a lot of the arguments hinge at this point. What many critics are NOT saying is that people can't have inner monologues, rich inner fantasy, fractured self-experience, absorption in roles, parasocial relationships, or embodied personified inner experiences.

Human beings are more than capable of that. What they are saying is that these inner phenomena aren't equivalent in the way alters are because endos frequently use the disorder terms coming from CDDs.

Also, ignoring the historical issue of tulpamancy is a huge problem. What's generally seen today as tulpamancy (multiple consciously created & distinct characters that exist internally, often treated like 'headmates') is westernized and divorced from its Tibetan Buddhist origins in Tulku traditions.

Tulku were believed to be reincarnated Buddhist masters with prior spiritual knowledge whereas the concept of 'creating' a tulpa in modern usage has shifted from it being a form of conscious meditative practice designed to develop mental focus, to something much more similar to making up original characters in your head.

So. The problem isn’t that “anti-endos don’t know how words work.” The problem is that endogenic communities often conflate community self-identification, sociological observation, philosophical discussion, and clinical legitimacy as though they are interchangeable when they are not.

At most, your sources show that people self-identify as plural, communities exist around those identities, and some researchers find the phenomenon socially interesting.

They do not establish scientific consensus that non-traumagenic plurality is a validated natural occurrence comparable to dissociative disorders.

[tobst4r]

"why do you care someone is endogenic just let people live" have we ABSOLUTELY LOST THE DAMN PLOT. if something is harming others actively, harms genuinely disordered people and is an ableist concept, ITS NOT SOMETHING TO IGNORE. saying you dont have a cdd but claiming to be plural in a non disordered way doesnt exist. everyone has alternate states of the mind, but in cdds they are different states of conciousness.

stay with me here. using terms that disordered people (folks w cdds) have claimed, terms that are medical for these disordered people, and just overall claiming and acting like you're similar to a disorder in a "non disordered" way is ABLEIST. because it MOCKS people who SUFFER.

these alternates states of the mind are not like different states of conciousness. claiming or acting like they are is ableist and spreads misinformation because your mind states are NOT states of conciousness.

"b-but ever since i became a willo system my live got better" your coping mechanism stops being valid when it harms other people. you are coping by mocking and being ableist. just because you felt better by roleplaying doesnt mean you get the damn right to claim to be non disordered of something that is only ever disordered. if you want to roleplay, you can do so. but dont use a disorder to your advantage just because it makes YOU feel better and does damage to MILLIONS.

if you're gonna hate you will be blocked immediatly, i will only take healthy and fact-sciene based statements.

[peculiarjester]

the term “sysmed” pisses me off in a special way. no, you can’t just bastardize trans terms actually. and no, you can’t demedicalize systemhood, because it is caused by MENTAL DISORDER. don’t piss me off dude.

[sunsetlychee]

There’s something very disturbing but not surprising about the way endogenic spaces so often blur into radqueer ones. It makes me worry a lot for any of the kids caught up in that, and how they might be introduced into radqueer spaces which is very dangerous for developing minds with the ideas that those communicates cling onto