#abigail shadowhunter

[meerabanerjee]

Jonathan and Abigail Shadowhunter and David the Silent

[fairondaisy]

there’s definitely more depth to abigail shadowhunter’s decision to have the citadel be a place where men cannot enter but honestly it’d be funny if she just. spent too much time with jonathan and david on the road and was like yeah whatever you idiots are up to keep it away from me

[ladyhindsight]

You are right. I think she made some characters as OCs for her HP fanfiction and others are "descendants" of her version of book characters. Then she created story she wants to tell, but didn't change characters to fit the story for it to make sense. And we are trapped in bizzare show/tell mess. Because Clare always tell you how the characters are, about their personalities and reactions, but then show them doing something very OOC just because story need it. Characters then look like they re mentally ill and don't even knkw what they are doing. Same with Clave, evil goverment which is evil for the sake of evilness. Clave sound like stupid government with 3 brain cells. I think the separation of Shadowhunters from real world also roots in the HP adaptation. Which is absurd, because separation of muggle and wizard culture doesn't make much sense even in HP.

Clare managed to failed education too. I was so dissapointed with structure of Shadowhunter Academy. It doesn't teach the skills shadowhunters really need. Consider their life. As shadowhunter you need to know law by heart and being able to intrepret it, because you are lawyer, judge and executor of law in one person. We don't see any downworlders to be taken to Alicante for court process (?). Which means crimes are solved by shadowhunters in field or by consensus of institue members. Shadowhunters are also part of Clave, which mean everyone of them participate in leading government and law making. It means shadowhunter needs to be good rhetor, who can costruct and defend argument in Clave meeting. They need to understand law making, learedship and politics to some degree. We don't see any special training for Consuls and Inquisitors. By the way Alec was elected we can assume anybody can be elected, which means you need to be prepared to actually take political function any day. You need to have skills for it, it isn't easy job. Academy don't teach them skills they need.

Thank you, I thought about Alicante a lot. I think it should have public baths too, because it's very sensible to build them. I personally don't like San Gimignano as Alicante, it look old and in ruins. I really liked TV series version of Alicante, it actually looked like city. Jonathan summoned Angel Raziel and he showed over Lake Lyn. Lake Lyn is in Alicante, which mean Alicante have to be somewhere on the First Crusade route.

Thank you for links, I forget Clare stated their real names were Jonathan, David and Abigail. It doesn't make any sense. It would make sense if they chose the names on Crusade/in Jerusalem. I think they had to be some nobles. Common woman wouldn't be betrothed to someone in Constantinopole and traveling with Crusade. Some noble women accompanied their husbands and fathers during Crusades.

I specifically chose Raymond IV. because intereting thing happened on his way to Jerusalem. During Siege of Antioch in 1098, Peter Bartholomew found Holy Lance. Historical records say it was attempt to improve morals of soldiers to break the Siege. But what if it was gift from Raziel to Abigail, Jonathan and David. !I have no idea how they spread on world. I think maybe shadowhunters were part of all the crusades conquering people. It doesn't sound possible to form any unified government without portals and fire messages. It make sense nephilim formed smaller societies with their own ruling government and laws around world. Probably even different myths about their creation.

When First Crusade arrived to Jerusalem, Gerard de Martigues founded military order Knights Hospitaller in 1099. Their main job were providing care for sick and poor pilgrims on their way to Holy Land and provide them with protection. They also ran hospital. Later Knights Hospitaller and Knights Templar became the most dangerous orders of Holy Land. I like to headcanon David and Gerard were friends and David was inpired by Knights Hospitaller to form order of Silent Brothers. In that time military orders were popular and I think it make sense for shadowhunters to start as military order under papal bull of pope Paschal II.. It would be good idea for them to make connections with church and nobles. You can't build city and start operation to save world from demonic invasion without any funding and support.

Being in favor with church mean being in favor with God himself and people wish no more than mercy of Lord. I think having family nephilim family members would be very prestigious thing, holy blood, angelic origin. I think nobles around Europe would crave angelic blood hoping it'll grant them mercy of God. I can see lower nobility and common people offering nephilim their children in hope they will survive drinking from Cup and it grant them better future. Esepcially daughters to be turned as little children to improve their chances on good marriage. It would create ties between nephilim, church and aristocracy, who would fund nephilim's projects, building Alicante, training, food, housing.

Wiki states 1234 is important year for shadowhunters. When I looked at wikipedia what happened in 1234. Pope Gregory IX. called for crusade to Holy Land and it was most succesful crusade since First Crusade. I wonder if the Barons's Crusade have anything to do with nephilim and why it's so important for them? Spreading angel blood in Egypt and maybe establishing community there.

Question is when alliance with Church stoped to be favourable for them. I think the departure from Church started to happen during Western Schism in 1378. It caused departure of Clave to different factions claiming their allegiance to different popes. Departure from Church could be also caused by Demon Plague. We don't know when it happened, but many nephilim died. It's realistic new nephilim maybe want change, reform government to be more independent from Catholic Church. I think total departure might happened during Protestant Reformation in 16th century and Crisis of the Late Middle Ages.

Clave also seem to be inspired by governmment of Roman Repulic, which look like something invented during Renaissance, when classical antiquity was cool again. Nephilim probably continue with their own expeditions to spread angelic blood around world and participated in colonisation. Massive expansion and problems between different nephilim governments probably happened as reaction to Industrial Revolution, because travel became easier and different nephilim factions interacts had problems with each other, their policies and believes.

I wonder if the half-POC characters in TID and TLH are actually products of diplomatic efforts between different factions. Anyway I think 19th century would be politically unstable time and even more after development of portal. Charlotte had very difficult position during her rule. It's interesting to think about her as person who unite Clave but also conqueror (depend on point of view).

This is long, I hope I didn't make any factual mistake. I'm not historian. :D Your analyses of Clare books really help me to imrpove my english and to better understand how to construct sentences. :)

Oh, yeah. Lake Lyn, that tiny little essential detail I forgot. I’ve got to get a grip here. Sorry. 😂

So going back to your previous message, it wouldn’t make sense if Jonathan travelled with Raymond IV or with any other leader for that matter. I checked several maps marking the routes of the First Crusade, and some varied a bit but they mostly were aligned with the map you showed. I overlaid a map of Europe over the map you shared to mark the spot where Idris is located. The scales are a bit off because the two maps didn't align perfectly, but this gives a general idea on the location.

That violet spot is it. So it wouldn’t matter with whom Jonathan travelled, he wouldn’t have been anywhere near Lake Lyn. Or he took a ridiculously long detour.

Shadowhunters have ridiculously simplistic society. There aren’t trades only some of them practice or occupations that require further education. Imagine being a Downworlder and having your fate be decided by some teenagers that maybe know the law enough to execute it. There are many occupations that are essential for keeping a city running. Think about sanitation, food, clothing, architecture, construction, maintenance, any kind of sensible economic system etc. They did rebuild the Gard but there was no mention of anyone holding a skill for building, and I don’t know, having their whole health care ultimately relying on the Silent Brothers doesn’t sound reliable.

How cool would it be that there were families that held some particular trade from the time the city was first built? Like, my family line goes back to the times when Alicante was just some brick building in a forest and the like. That would be one way to make the characters more distinct.

Alicante in the TV show was really great. I haven’t watched that far myself, maybe one day, but I liked this particular shot that I’ve seen around:

Your take on Jonathan and David is really awesome and seriously takes in the historical context of the time. I really love it. It would make more sense that the separation from Catholic Church came on gradually, when changes took place in their operations and societies over time. Right now it’s more like Jonathan became a Nephilim and that was that. There is a major gap in their history right from the beginning and you’ve filled it wonderfully. I really like what you’ve come up with, and it describes the history of the Nephilim already in more detail and credibility, taking into account the historical facts surrounding the Crusades.

I really love the aspect here how their society progresses and moves with the mundane world and is affected by it as well. It doesn’t exist separately and in secret in the beginning, but eventually does become more isolated and forgotten. The changes over time are motivated by events in history and stem from them. Clare could never.

I've been thinking about Abigail and David. Abigail is an Iron Sister, meaning she is immortal. She could still be around! David's wiki page under his status says "Buried in frozen state (presumed)", the source being CoHF. I've been unable to find this part in CoHF and can't remember it, but if he was still alive also (for being immortal too), that would also be cool. I just think that at this point they are such distant historical figures, I don't think I could handle them just making an appearance and talking like the rest of the characters do.

When it comes to TDI and TLH characters, I don’t think Clare ever thought that far or even close to that context. It’ll be interesting to see whether TLH answers any questions relating to this. All in all, it’s just weird that there is this whole angelic race of people with 1000 years’ worth history, and most of it is incredibly vague and nonsensical. I’m not historian either, and I appreciate your dedication to this. And thank you again for your words, you’re showering me with compliments. 🤠

[high-warlock-of-brooklyn]

This is something I've been meaning to do for a while now. I know the official art showed them differently, but this is my version of the three original Nephilim, Jonathan Shadowhunter, his sister Abigail, who was the first Iron Sister, and David, Jonathan's parabatai and the first Silent Brother.

Click on the picture for better quality. Do NOT repost anywhere. Characters belong to @cassandraclare

Square filled: Angel blood (@shadowhunterbingo)

[phoebeboard]

About Edom...

I was thinking about Edom as a parallel dimension, and how Thule had a crisis point where everything was changed. The Battle of the Burren.

With Thule, because it's so similar to the TSC reality, it's clear what the crisis point is, but with Edom there must be a million smaller things and some bigger things that happened differently.

The change happened in Jonathan Shadowhunter's lifetime. And what hit me was that Alec said no Silent Brothers or Iron Sisters were ever created... but the first Iron Sister and Silent Brother were Jonathan's best friend and sister... so in Edom, what happened to them?

Did they even live to become Shadowhunters, or were they gone before that?

Jonathan Shadowhunter in Edom was a very different man. He didn't ally with Downworlders, which the Nephilim should have been doing from the start (with Elphas the Unsteady for instance), so what happened? Obviously it could be anything from during their lifetime, but I at least get the impression it was something to do with a decision Jonathan Shadowhunter made which changed their entire fates. Something that defined him as a leader, a difficult choice between a hazy right and wrong. But what made him choose wrongly? David was his friend and source of wisdom. Did David die? Or were they never friends at all? Was his sister Abigail killed and he was responding to the loss? It could have been anything.

I'm just going on what's loosely described in the stories and particularly in the Codex, so this is all vague speculation, but it makes me wonder.

The biggest crisis point in his lifetime is the moment Raziel appears when they're about to die and asks him what he wants. What if he didn't answer the same? What if his priority had not been to save Abigail and David? What if he had said something else?

That would have changed the course of their history drastically. It would have changed the man Jonathan became, it would have eliminated the effect David and Abigail had on Shadowhunter society respectively, and it could easily have lead to a self-destructive Nephilim like the ones in Edom.

In the Codex, the writers ask you to forgive Jonathan for not asking for something greater than the survival of his friends, as if this was somehow a lesser concern. And for the main body of the Clave, it's always been that way - they are seen as cold and acting superior and often cruel. It's the Iron Sisters, the Silent Brothers, and a handful of open-hearted young Shadowhunters that usually balance them out. But what do you get if you take those things out of the equation?

The friends that Jonathan saved (supposedly unwisely) become key to the survival of the Shadowhunters, and the rest of the world, through the things they did. What's more, that moment where he chooses to save them is a direct parallel to when Clary is offered a favour from Raziel and she chooses Jace's life over anything else.

Perhaps Edom's destruction represents what happens when the Nephilim choose their lofty moral high-ground and solitary superiority over love and unity and friendship. Perhaps it is the extreme of what they would become, if they'd been doing that FROM THE VERY BEGINNING.

And perhaps, to contrast to Clary's guilt over choosing Jace (since it was the only reason Sebastian could be brought back to life, causing the war, the very reason they're stuck in Edom at all), it represents the importance of that choice. That putting the safety of those she loves over anything else is not selfish, but it gives her the humanity and love and strength to make the right choices and win the war in the end.

It's the direct antithesis for what Jace told her in the very first book 'to love is to destroy' - proving that love is, in actual fact, the only reason that anything survived at all.

[acepolish]

faves ( 1 / ? ? )  / /  original shadowhunter trio / jonathan shadowhunter / abigail shadowhunter / david the silent

❝ please, save my friends. ❞

[queenhelenblackthorn]

One of my favorite things about TSC is that it’s well established that shadowhunters don’t know shit about angels or the original trio (Jonathan Shadowhunter, Abigail, and David)

[marcythewerewolf]

Shadowhunters: Historical Women, Historical Art 5/?

Abigail Shadowhunter