you ship a man who’s in his late 20s and a girl who’s just entered into her teen years🥴 i’m here to tell you are not better then jonsas or jonarya shippers get a grip. asoiaf is not YA romance novel either. id genuinely be shocked if martin even keeps sandor alive (which i highly doubt he will after all the disgusting shit he’s done)
right… bcos incest is the same as an age gap?… wtf kind of argument is this lmao. 💀 i do not wish for them to be together when she first meets him. and neither does sandor lol. he knows she is too young. what i would like is to see them reunited in twow and perhaps a romance involved then. the author himself has a commissioned piece of the pairing hanging in his own home. 😂 and he has said “there is something there”. the signs are clear to read. not so much for those incest ships y’all seem to love so much. so… yes, i do think i am better than you xo 😚
Recently saw one of the usual psychotic jonrya takes claiming Jon would set Sansa on fire to keep Arya warm or some shit, and I, for one, wouldn’t mind this dynamic at all, actually. But there’s a catch (and it’s a long one, so bear with me)
edit: I admittedly get a little carried away here, my own grievances with the fandom’s treatment of Sansa are like a big ass iceberg, but the main idea here is that there is no Character A shaped hole in Sansa’s arc.
It doesn’t need Character A in Sansa’s corner in order to be complete and whole.
As someone who is strictly team Sansa, I fully embrace the possibility of different ships happening and certain animosities brewing. I kind of welcome it, to be honest. Asoiaf isn’t the kind of story that revolves around one character and sometimes people just end up not liking you. It is not and should not be written like our fluffy fanfics. Stay in your freaking lane, George.
I do owe the burst of inspiration to the creepy jonrya post of all things, which is why it’s being referenced.
When Sansa Stark isn’t being treated as a scapegoat, she gets the absolute privilege to be the stepping stone for the male characters in the series.
Like serving as the chance at redemption for shitty child murderers and molesters as if they’re entitled to one. Let her say anything remotely positive about any of these men and the fandom goes, “See? He’s not a bad person! He’s one of the heroes now! Sansa though? Irredeemable, irrelevant without some old creep drooling over her, stupid”. And somehow still very much in the way of their preferred narratives.
Sidenote: it’s not your male faves secretly being good people. It’s Sansa stubbornly remaining kind and compassionate in spite of everything and in denial about her own abuse. Give it time, one day she won’t be so generous with them anymore.
When Sansa Stark doesn’t ride into the sunset with an actual fucking pedo, she gets to be the doting lady wife to whoever this fandom perceives as the male lead, a living reward for all the injustices and suffering he’s endured. Just the kind of wife he’s always dreamed of, the one he deserves, dammit. This is Sansa “winning the game” in the eyes of most people that don’t hate her.
Yes, Sansa cooooould become Queen in the North… but not without [insert guy] to rule as her King, nun-uh! That just wouldn’t be right.
Sansa Stark deserves better. The whole subservient wifedom thing with a dozen babies in tow is the result of her being groomed all her life by her own parents into being sold for her family’s advantage, and she deserves better than that. She deserves to outgrow that. She deserves to challenge the inherently predatory and condescending way other characters engage with her archetype, the romantic heroine, in a setting such as asoiaf.
Grrm didn’t have this girl explicitly emulate both Catelyn AND NED in her journey while learning not to repeat their mistakes only for Sansa to end up back at square one in the end. A Catelyn doppelgänger in ways that benefit (or infuriate) someone else before they ever benefit her.
And for those claiming “satisfying irony”, how much more irony do you want inflicted on this girl? She’s been “ironically” beaten, “ironically” molested, “ironically” left behind by her family, the joke’s been on her, you absolute ghouls. Actually re-read her chapters if you still haven’t had enough.
At this point, I’d rather Sansa be at odds with Jon than derail her own path to something great and drown in his arc, as it happens way too often with female characters like her. Let her deal with the fact that Ned failed her and Robb left her for dead and never again put a Stark man on a pedestal, especially one she barely knows. Let her not make herself small and convenient within the walls of her own home. I promise it’ll be fine if her relationship with Jon and ship girl doesn’t work out, it doesn’t need to.
I also think it’s worth mentioning that Sansa is an actual subversion of a fantasy trope and a very well written character. I don’t know about you, but Arya’s hostility towards her sister would have about the same impact on my reading experience as Sansa being accosted by a bunch of Redwall mice. Grrm has made Arya too easy to root for and pity for most people to even notice how much he fumbled her writing compared to other characters. In the meantime, conflict with Jon, though less probable, could be actually interesting. Magical dudes with swords don’t often get challenged by “willowy creatures in a tower”.
And by the way, what's with all this vitriolic hatred? I have yet to see a post by a Sansa stan fantasizing about Jon beheading Arya, just so Sansa could play fetch with Ghost or whatever. I feel like a dumbass even typing that.
Damn, that one girl got you good all the way back in middle school, huh
It's so funny how Arya Persephone parallels exist solely to make Jon Arya's Hades.
Meanwhile Ssnsa Persephone parallels explore how Littlefinger is Sansa's Hades.
One is for braindead incest shippers, the other is a genuine exploration of a character, her being preyed upon by an older man and how that older man almost tricks her into staying in the Underworld (the Vale) by offering her pomegranates and Sansa denying it in favor of pears (the fruit that symbolizes life).
Shipping and let ship is my maxim, so this post hating on starkcest is not in the vein of moral offense but of my genuine confusion.
Why do so many people ship Jon with his family? What chemistry are we seeing here? I've gotten nothing but familial from the books. Sansa thinks of Jon less than she thinks of Arya and that's saying something.
Arya seems to admire and love him like a sibling. She's also 9 to his 15.
Jaime and Cersei i get. They has some cute moments where I had to remind myself that they have bio children and that Cersei doesn't truly love him.
Man, people see 2 men standing within 5ft of each other and ship them. Jonmund? Jonsatin? Jonsam? Fuck man, Jon and Ygritte and I hated them together.
And Dany...his aunt... probably I'm still chipping at ADWD.
Where are Jon's crackships? And I don't mean robb x Jon
I dislike j0nerys but god damn it I absolutely HATE Jon and his SISTERS!!!! Like that’s absolutely f*** gross!!! They lived together in winterfell, saw each other every single day and have always thought about each other as SIBLINGS!!!
J0nerys is a crack ship in the books, I don’t even think it’s going to happen. They don’t even know each other, they have never met, and I doubt they will. And even though they’re most likely family, THEY HAVENT EVEN MET!!! They don’t even know about each others existence. And while most noble families in Westeros had uncle/aunt and niece/nephew, or cousins marriages. I dunno if they ever were like “you’ll marry your father’s sibling” that’s like a hella close relative 🤣
But anyway I highly doubt something’s gonna happen there, it doesn’t worry me, i just don’t think it’ll ever happen. And while I think he’s the son of rha3g4r and Lyanna, I don’t see how he would find out, if he’ll believe it, or how Da3n3rys would find out. Because again, they’re in different continents!!!
But Jon and his sisters that’s just plain awful, I don’t care if they’re half siblings, or cousins. They grew up together!!!! In the same castle!!!! As siblings!!! It’s not like he was their bastard brother that visited every now and then, he was there when they were (except obviously Robb) born and he saw them grow up every single day of their lives, and loves them very much AS SIBLINGS!!! If there’s one thing those girls are sure about is that they’re siblings and he considers them as such and would protect them!!! And he knows that he’s the only one left to protect them!!!! So to me, that’s just vile. Why twist their relationship and make it less valid because they’re JUST siblings??? Fraternal love is stronger, specially as an older sibling towards your little siblings. I don’t know why they can’t see and understand that. There’s no underlying romance there!!!
And this would mostly be about the books, because I know they still have hope that Jon will chose and keep one of his sisters 🙄 The show happened, it was awful for everyone, no matter who they liked, shipped or whatever, it’s over, let’s move to the books. And by the way IN THE SHOW THEY ALSO HAD A REGULAR SIBLINGS RELATIONSHIP!!! DON’T TRY AND MAKE IT ROMANTIC!!!!!
Anon, I have truly nothing to say here, for you put it so eloquently in words.
I think my favourite thing is when certain people agree how incest in the world of asoiaf isn't normal or good, and is something inherently toxic and damaging except for Jonsa. Like, just not a shred of self awareness, huh?
