#anti-salt

[catapuskai]

I have two sides. One that hates character salt and the other which salts on everyone. And by everyone i mean EVERYONE.

[generalluxun]

What is the upper limit on how badly you can write Marinette before it becomes salt? Could you, for instance write Marinette finding out that Chat is Adrien, and choosing not to tell him that she is ladybug because she thinks that the reason he stopped being on love with ladybug is because of the lies in season 4, and if he finds out that she is ladybug, she will break up with him?

It depends on motivation. If you can sell insecurity as the motivation canon itself has told us there is almost no limit as of S6. This is one of the reasons I hate the Big Lie. Writing lore-accurate Marinette feels like salt now. S6 doesn't have her just making mistakes, it has her actively covering up and choosing to manipulate people for her lies.

Pre- the Big Lie the cut off used to be simple. Marinette could make mistakes. She could make some fairly big mistakes due to her limited ability to imagine any life or motivation outside her own. *HOWEVER* when things were put directly and unquestionably in front of her, she could figure it out. Once she figured it out, she still always *cared* enough to course correct and fix her mistakes. That was the core of Marinette's character and how you could put her into situations then get her easily back out again.

She was terrible at avoiding problems or seeing them coming but always the first to start picking up the pieces when a plate broke.

Now as of S6, she's just sweeping the pieces under the rug and we do not have any idea what it will take for her to stop.

But as with all salt I'd say intent(of the author) is the most important ingredient. If you're writing just to make her awful, then it is salt. If you're writing to try and keep her in character, and by the end you want her at least on a hopeful path, then I think you are okay.

[cardiac-agreste]

I suppose today was the straw that broke the camel's back, where I once again saw someone (recently!) say Zoë is just a "nice Chloe," and friends, I am befuddled. Bewildered and baffled, even! DYEL (Do You Even Ladybug), bro?

I am here today to tell you that not only is Zoë Lee her own, unique character related to Chloe only by blood (unless she's a sentibeing!), but Zoe Lee is also the third or fourth most worthy holder in the entire bouquet of Miraculous characters (Marinette, Adrien, and Alix are the other three).

First let's talk about whether Zoë is a Chlone (did the Chloe/clone pun work?).

What do we know about Chloe?

French

entitled

bully

handsy

quick to anger

wants to please a mother who abandoned her

father wants to please her

can't remember names

has a "friend" do homework for her

makes the best pun in the entire show

willing to be akumatized

probably wants to make out with Marinette Dupain-Cheng (okay fine, this isn't strictly canon)

when she gets a Miraculous, she brags about it and shares her identity publicly because for her it's all about the glory

racist

behavior all seems to arise out of the expectation that everyone exists to please her (because she's modeling herself after her mother) twinned by a need to be acknowledged by her mother

What do we know about Zoe?

American

shy

unperturbed by rejection

used to be fake

decided to be her authentic self even though she'd be rejected by her peers, which leads us to

LGBTAF

had no parents in her life because she was at boarding school

tender

brave

humble

definitely wants to make out with Marinette Dupain-Cheng

maybe a sentibeing (otherwise her mother got pregnant, like, a couple months after giving birth to Chloe, and where is her dad in all this?! did he died!)

does NOT think wealth and power are all that and a bag of potato chips (blows off that Diamond Ball thing, refers to that type of person as a "zombie")

has held two different Miraculous and both of them she took because fate required it

artsy!!!!

I can kind of understand right after her debut feeling like this: she is in Paris (like Chloe), shows up with blonde hair (like Chloe) and the body of a girl (like Chloe) and uses a girl's voice (like Chloe) to speak to Marinette (like Chloe) nicely (not so much like Chloe), and we see her trying to gain family acceptance in Soul Crusher.

But then she rapidly diverges from Chloeness.

Finally, we get to season five, which finished airing over a year ago (thank goodness we get S6 soon!), and Plagg ghosts Adrien to find a new holder.

Let's consider Adrien getting Plagg the first time: he's sad, lonely, stuck in his room all day, has no friends, and has no idea that he's going to suffer by becoming a superhero. And he becomes Chat Noir, gets to chill with this beautiful lady he crushes on, and his enemy is an inexperienced villain who fumblefucks through his powers being an idiot of himself as the two of them and Ladybug gradually all gain skill and experience wielding their powers.

So you're Zoe Lee, you see all kinds of crazy shit in America, and these French heroes come to your city (New York) and fight a dude who pops off with a dozen NUKES all over the place ready to do some damage, and WHEW they save the day with the United Heroez of America.

You move to France, and your first day there, a gross old man slithers into your brain, emotionally manipulating you until you give in and allow him to use your body to hurt people and destroy property. And then, when you're finally rescued, you're publicly humiliated as the "villain" despite not remembering anything you did. And then you probably watch videos of yourself doing horrible things later, in your room by yourself, maybe as your half-sister yells at you for being a monster or something.

The person who manipulated you is a villain in your new city (did I mention you're living in the house of someone who isn't even your real dad?? without your mother present??), regularly causes billions of dollars in damage and mass casualties, and currently has control over almost all the Miraculous. He's SCARY, VICIOUS, and his power level is INSANE. He's got the heroes on the ropes. He's had a long time to get stronger. There are news articles about how he's a very. bad. dude.

And then the heroes DISAPPEAR. Paris is FUCKED.

And a tiny little cat shows up and is like "hey, kid, you are needed."

Any normal person would be like NO. NO NO NO.

But Zoë?

"Claws out."

Who cares that she's probably gonna die? Who cares that she's probably going to fight alone? Who cares that her enemy is terrifying and has already very specifically victimized you once before?

NOT ZOË LEE.

And that is why Zoë is not a "nice version of Chloe" and also is one of the most worthy holders in the universe. Alix is the only one who gives her a run for her money, and IME that's an essay for another day (but tl;dr being the Rabbit Holder would mentally break any normal person).

🚀

UPDATE: I welcome reasoned disagreement. But if you're going to insult me, I will delete your comment and block you.

[sugarcubetikki]

Isn’t it funny that a commonly used salter phrase is “——- fans are blind”?

When they’re the ones who are very much ignoring canon content for salt.

For most salt claims, the evidence against them lies straight in canon. It’s been represented over and over again yet salters overlook them.

The only thing they do to justify their claim is with salty statements, driving little details out-of-context and writing salty fix-it fics.

They ignore the main narrative in canon. The way the characters interact in canon. The way the characters feel in canon. They messages that canon tries to deliver.

Yet they tend to say “hey, ——- fans are blind.”

[spartanxhunterx]

Hey, to make this easier on me and everyone who reblogs this.

If you’re an Adrien Salter, Alya Salter, class Salter.

Block me, I haven’t got time or the energy to find you myself.

No I will not get into a discussion about it, just block me if you salt on the characters.

If you call Alya a bad friend, block me.

If you call Adrien a sexual harrasser, block me.

If you think the class is evil and unredeemable, block me

If you think Lila is a soulless sociopath/ murderer, block me.

I don’t want that negativity near my blog.

[angelofthequeers]

One more post for the road while it’s 1 am and I have no impulse control whatsoever

[etherealdjinn]

I have to do a bit of a rant cause I’ve read a good amount of Miraculous fanfics and the concept of salt fics needs to die. I’ve seen so much salt enough to be allergic to. Its an excuse just to bash a character people don’t like/hate and some of them are ridiculous. Not to mention to take it to the max of ooc. The most farfetched are the Adrien and Marinette salt fics. 

Did the people forget that most of the characters on the show are KIDS?!

Based on the shows events (even if S3 was trash) the only one who deserves it is Lila. Even with so, it’s the writers fault of how they’re portrayed in the show. It’s making me disappointed. Am I a little bitter how the season ended? Yes, but I’m not gonna point out fingers of which character is at fault. All the characters have flaws. It makes them ‘Perfectly Imperfect’. 

I can only hope Season 4 can be better.

[jalebii-bai]

An Archive of Our Own, a project of the Organization for Transformative Works

Chapters: 5/? Fandom: Miraculous Ladybug, Miraculous: Tales of Ladybug and Chat Noir Rating: Teen And Up Audiences Warnings: No Archive Warnings Apply Relationships: Adrien Agreste | Chat Noir/Marinette Dupain-Cheng | Ladybug Characters: Adrien Agreste | Chat Noir, Marinette Dupain-Cheng | Ladybug, Tikki, Plagg, Gabriel Agreste | Papillon | Hawk Moth, Sabine Cheng, Tom Dupain, Lila Rossi, Chloé Bourgeois, Roland Dupain Additional Tags: Abuse, Abusive Parents, Angst, Hurt/Comfort, anti-salt, Miraculous Ladybug Love Square, reverse love square, Love Square Reversal, It starts off normal and flips partway through, We stan a compassion queen, do no harm but take no shit Summary:

Adrien promised he'd have Marinette's back, but no matter how badly she needs him, he won't take any kind of action to protect her—or, for that matter, himself. When Marinette discovers WHY he finds it so impossible to stand up to bullies, she resolves to put aside her crush to help him escape his abusive household.

But the less she thinks about Adrien, the more she thinks about a different blond boy in her life—and the more time she spends taking care of Adrien, the more he starts to see her as more than just a friend...

please for the love of God go read this fic by op @galahadwilder​ 

he’s taken my heart and torn it to pieces with this chapter but y’know it’s fine