#character salt

[catapuskai]

I have two sides. One that hates character salt and the other which salts on everyone. And by everyone i mean EVERYONE.

[randomnameless]

what do you think about miklan situation being disowned because he had no crest?

?

You mean, the wah-wahs parroted during the very same chapter where you're introduced to Gilbert, aka Gustave from House Dominic, a crestless man who managed to become part of the King's guard and tutored the crown prince and was still, before his self-imposed exile, a member of House Dominic?

Miklan from House Gautier who wasn't immediately disowned when his brother was born, but merely lost the title as the future magrave Gautier?

From the land of Faerghus, where Ingrid's crestless brothers exist, albeit off-screen, and are still part of her House?

Or worse, the land where the regent is a member of House Blaiddyd despite not having a crest? And wasn't "disowned" as a result?

In a way...

I like this situation, it manages to perfectly seize what the "writing" of this verse is all about, crying about the sky being purple, while you can see it's blue, and no one will ever make an objection.

Unreliable narrators centered stories are interesting, because you can see the discrepency and usually, it has a build up and a conclusion.

In Fodlan?

The Unreliable narrators are never challenged, to the point where the Lord who was supposed to be curious and who learnt the "true" history from the McGuffin Lady ultimately confesses, in his last support convo with the player, not to have learnt a thing.

He starts his journey believing the CoS preaches xenophobia/isolationism/is the reason why the people of Fodlan don't really like outsiders, learns canonically it was not the case (at poor Lorenz's expanse!) and end up... asking Billy to make a new church where people won't be excluded for being... outsiders/different!

[gritsandbrits]

BlackArachnias treatment of Optimus and blaming him for everything is even worse considering 1) It wasn't even his idea to go to the stupid spider planet. 2) He actually warned her not to use her power copying ability on the freaky-ass spiders. 3) Throughout the series he repeatedly offered to help find a cure for her, which she repeatedly rejects.

And yet the show tries so hard to push her as this deeply innocent victim who's only problem is her insecurities.

[pegabugladybee]

I don’t trust people who hate Marinette but have an obsession with Adrien. I’m not salting Adrien, I’m salting his stans. And how are you gonna hate Lila but like Chloe?? Makes no sense

[jennrypan]

So..Zoe gets to be openly gay but

Juleka and Rose and Marc and Nathaniel, who VERY WELL COULDVE BEEN MADE OPENLY GAY THIS ENTIRE FUCKING TIME.

Can't.

Okay, sure. And no little fuckin hints don't really count if the rando new character you shit out suddenly gets to do it.

Literally what has Zoe don't but EXIST for no actual reason?? She's every character rolled into one but she gets every storyline handed to her and rushed out of no where?? Tf. Make it make sense.

The only good thing she has is a cute character design, outside of her hero costume which is absolutely heinous.

[gale-gentlepenguin]

IIRC, Adrien salt gained most of its steam from two incidents: His “take the high road” advice in Chameleon, and when he almost threw his ring away in Syren. In my opinion, both of those scenes showcased some of the worst writing in the show. It’s kind of a theme with Adrien salters, actually; just about every bit of ammo they use against him really stems from the writers’ refusal to treat him as a character and just have him do whatever is needed to move the plot in a certain direction.

That is where most fandom scholars would say the salt first became prominent and hit its peak.

You know whats really funny? My opinion on both of these 'Salt starter' scenes has changed on how I view it.

I think the problem with a lot of character salt is that we often think that every character knows everything that we as the viewer do.

Lets start with Syren.

Before things happened, Chat noir and Ladybug were partners and the only hero game in town. They had established rules, that they both agreed to.

Then Enter Rena Rouge. Now when she first appeared, chat noir was only thinking "Oh cool, back up"

But around the time syren happened. Rena Rouge has appeared a few times, and the novelty of it has warn off. Now wondering, "Hey where did she come from?"

And at this point Chat noir is realizing that Ladybug is leaving with the new hero, 'Do these heroes know eachother IRL?" "What happened to identities?"

Then Ladybug lets something slip and now that just brings Chat noir to a realization. Ladybug is hiding something from him. An not just Ladybug. Plagg too! Two people he trusts just as much as himself.

We as the viewer know that Marinette/Ladybug is honoring Fu's request.

And another thing we fail to realize here is Adrien's upbringing.

Adrien knows nothing about what happened with his mother and why. His father always keeps him at a distance and tells him NOTHING.

Imagine being someone who has spent their entire life having stuff hidden from you, including what happened to the mother you loved dearly, only to find people you love and trust start pulling the same s*** to you again?

Adrien's frustration and wanting to quit is actually pretty reasonable. And this character crack is actually great for development.

The flaws in the writing are specifically 2 factors:

1. It fails to point out the situation is not Marinette's fault. This whole situation is on Fu. Fu should have specified that he was the one that instructed Marinette to keep quiet.

2. The show could have emphasized Adrien's home situation more so it was more understandable to the audience.

But these issues are often overlooked.

_____________________________________________________________

Now lets go to Chameleon.

The elephant in the room is that Lila THREATENED Marinette. Which we as the audience sees. No one else knows Lila did this. But to us, seeing Adrien suggest the "High road" seems like awful advice. But when you remember earlier,

Adrien tried to tell lila to stop Lying, and that lead to her akumatization.

Marinette and Adrien both have very different experiences here, thus having them come to different conclusions

Adrien believed that confronting Lila wouldnt change anything because his attempt to talk with her resulted in her akumatization

Marinette's opinion of wanting to confront and expose Lila is more natural when someone has personally threatened you or a loved one.

So the writing flaw here isnt Adrien's advice, its the fact that they made his advice the 'Correct choice' despite the fact that Lila crossed a line with threatening.

If Lila didnt threaten Marinette, then Adrien's advice being the 'Lesson' would actually make a lot of sense.'

So the Flaw in the writing and viewer perspective resulted in Adrien being the main target of the salt. (which when looking at it from this perspective does explain a lot)

_____________________________________________________________

I got a bit off track there. As for the Adrien salt.

I do believe that what you said is the start of not just Adrien salt but all character salt in a nutshell.

The fans taking the writing of the canon and finding fault with it. Originally wanting better for the character.

The light/ early salt can simply be seen as critiques (often attributed more to writing salt for the show than actually on the character)

I theorize that from this point that it can build up and start to spiral from criticism of character writing to simply hating the character because of multiple factors:

1. Negative interaction with Fandom stans of the character or Ship involving a character. (Reactionary salt)

2. Individuals that salt on the character, encouraging more and more criticism (Salt mining for approval/ echo chamber effect)

3. Or simply taking one's personal dislike of the direction the character in the plot or Character in general and beginning to exaggerate things to such an extreme degree. (Psychological response which I would need a psychology degree to delve into further.)

Of course take all of this with 'A grain of salt' because there is a lot more too it.

[ciaran-archive]

Character I really want to bitch about: Akechi Goro P5R. I can't really put it into words but god I hate fandom characterisation of Goro. Not in a "everyone woobifies him" way but "how can everyone ignore the huge fcking handle-with-care sign on him". I'm. Frustrated. Hngh. I'm sure I'm too hyper about this, but just. no. All of the tragedy of his character, his intelligence, his relationship with his mother is almost completely lost in "aggresively-tsundere serial killer". I don't get the need to... dumb him down or make him incapable of love or lacking in understanding and empathy while portraying his rather just anger at the world. His relationship with Ren too, the confusing love he feels and the way destiny works into their relationship to nearly destroy them both. I feel Ren is portrayed awfully... helpless and morally upright wrt Goro. Which does not make for good ShuAke. (They're foils, thesis and antithesis, not... I'm not sure how to explain it honestly). This is why I prefer JP Goro, a lot of nuance is lost in the English translation of the game itself.

(I loved your characterisation of him a lot, I think I sent some anon asks fangirling about your fics.😅)

I recently got into BSD, and I think I'm going to stay away from fandom (esp wrt Dazai) outside of jokes. There is just no trust.

YES I FULLY AGREE (and thank you for liking my fics!!)

i have said this before, i think, but a huge element of akechi's character is that he is deeply traumatized by humanity as a whole. he has little faith in the goodness of people and even less in systems and governments. he doesn't want to be kind to people because it doesn't end well for him. he cannot bring himself to help people because he has to think about how that might hurt him down the line, and no one else is going to think about his pain. also, he is 18. he's a kid! you know who else is a kid? everybody.

one of the best themes in p5 is how every phantom thief has their own traits that are reflected in akechi: ryuji and goro have similar relationships with their parents; ann and akechi are both public figures/minor celebrities with the self-image issues that entails; yusuke and akechi both have corrupt father figures who use them relentlessly; haru and akechi both have fathers who treat them like objects; futaba and akechi are both clever and lonely in their cleverness and unable to connect with other kids their own age. and akira, of course, always akira, but all of them.

any of the thieves could have ended up like akechi, if not for. if not for akira, if not for people who loved them and reeled them back from the edge, if not for each other. akechi is the only person who gets none of that until it's too late for him. of course he's bitter and jealous and hates everyone! anybody would, in his place.

another thing is that trauma just makes it harder for you to empathize with other people because all your resources are dedicated to getting through your own days. akechi isn't inherently unempathetic or incapable of kindness (not that lacking empathy is bad); he's just not in a place where he could exercise those traits even if he had them. he pretty much has to kill - we don't know what, if anything else, shido had to maintain control over him. can you imagine how much worse it would be if he spent time sympathizing with his victims and the consequences of his actions and then had to do it anyway?

and lastly, p5 stresses that children don't get choices. children don't have power in a world ruled by corrupt and callous adults. they have to bear the abuse until the universe takes pity on their misery and grants them a persona - but in akechi's case, a persona isn't enough. his life is still dominated by the self-serving cruelty of adults because it's not just power that saves you, it's also having other people who understand. and akechi never had anyone understand him until long after it would have changed the trajectory of his life.

as for the way akira gets flattened to his moral uprightness - lmao. pretty much the whole point of akira's character is that he would be exactly like akechi if not for, again: if not for sojiro, ryuji, ann, yusuke, futaba, all his confidants, hammering in over and over that what gives him strength is the bonds he builds with other people, and what keeps him moral is those same bonds. he was willing to kill! it's not that he's a better person than akechi inherently, it's just that the course of his life is dramatically different in ways that support him being good. it's a tenuous morality. he does have an internal sense of right and wrong, justice and injustice - akechi does too. it's not what made him good, though.

i didn't realize i still had so much to say about p5! thanks for sending this in and thanks again for liking my fic <3