#adrien salt

[thetrashthatsmilesback]

1) breaking up with adrien instead of telling him the truth is punishing adrien for Marinette's bullshit

2) if the show expects me to take its portrayal of mental health issues seriously, they wouldn't have had chat noir try to kill himself in season 4 and then never approach it again. Having marinette say she's reaching a breaking point doesn't matter because they're portraying people with anxiety as liars who will manipulate and gaslight anyone who gets in the way of their lie, then cry 'mental health crisis' when called out. S6 mari is a disgusting display of mental illness rep, and if the show wants to pretend that any previous displays (s4 Adrien's depressive episode, mari's supposed pool spider ptsd idk) were good, then it can cut its therapy plotline. Its not mental health rep. It's fucking gross. Reminder that marinette doesn't exist, I'm not deriding a struggling child, I'm going after her old as shit writers who should know better. Make more crying models, I don't care. Your show is officially a danger to mental health awareness.

3) the hints that scarabella takes over are great, except now Alya is also lying by omission. This is stupid and goes against her character. What the fuck

4) adrien isn't playing dumb. They actually just made him like that. What. The. Fuck.

5) abuse apologia isn't cute, and no amount of crying will make me care about your mouthpiece. Marinette doesn't exist, but the grown ass adults who thought this plotline was okay do. The same adults who now have half the fandom parroting the "he would hurt too much" bullshit excuse that gets used against real abuse victims every day when attempting to learn about their abuser.

6) Marinette spends the whole episode trying to convince Alya to forgive her, when outside of what she did to her in Lasy Chaos, Alya isn't the one she needs forgiveness from

7) adrien was useless. Adrien was stupid. What the fuck is the point of having him in the opening credits. Yes I am still harping on it

8) I want to enjoy alya being an amazing team leader but I'm so hung up on how fucking stupid Adrien was written to be i am crashing out. This is how they see abuse survivors. What's the point? What's the fucking point in any of this? "The character that abuse victims relate to heavily is now blind to everything going on around him, accepts what his girlfriend says with no question, doesn't have any suspicions at all, and has come to accept that his gaslighters were right about his abuser." What. The. Fuck. What the fuck? What the actual fuck? This is the kid who speaks multiple languages and is top of the class? What, do the writers think abuse victims' brains turn to sludge the moment they think about their abuser or their partner? What the fuck???

9) thank god alya shot down mari's manipulations during the akuma fight. If only I cared, but since alya isnt fucking telling adrien, I don't. Great. She knows and it stuck this time. Did the writers just forget that alya is a journalist and maribug is lying to all of Paris? Of course they did, because they're so attached to their fuck ass abuse apologia lie plot that they didn't think past "what if Marinette excuses an abuser then cries fifty million times about it"

10) that didn't feel like a season finale lmao

11) one last "there's no fucking way adrien is actually being written to be this fucking dumb" because holy fuck. His dead eyed stare in lady chaos was supposed to be taken seriously. He's actually being written like this. Holy. Fuck. Toddlers connect dots better than this, and I would know. All my cousins have infants and toddlers.

[mother-of-platypus]

"Season 6 will show Adrien having a new hobby" They said.

"Running is his new hobby" They said.

*proceeds to only show him running in ONE episode*

[newhyperfixationhereicome]

How MLB Season 5 Finale completely obliterates Marinette and Adrien's character arcs and their relationship:

My biggest problem with Miraculous Ladybug is the Love Square. It is the heart and soul of this show and the one thing it absolutely cannot get wrong.

The writers apparently wanted the dynamic between Marinette and Adrien to be gender swapped Knight and Princess (Dame and Prince if you will), but the problem is... that's not their dynamic?

Ladynoir is the LS ship with the biggest screen time and it does not have that dynamic. Because Chat Noir is the one protecting Ladybug with his body. Chat Noir is the one willing to sacrifice himself for Ladybug. Chat Noir is the one that reassures Ladybug, Chat Noir is the one that sticks with Ladybug through thick and thin, no matter how she treats him. As a result, Chat Noir is the one that feels like Ladybug's protector and knight instead of the other way around.

Adrienette also doesn't fit the bill and the fact that show pretends that it does is frankly laughable. Pray tell, how on earth is a 14 year old baker girl supposed to defend Adrien from his powerful, rich father?

Marichat obviously doesn't work either.

Ladrien however, does provide us with genderbent Knight x Princess dynamic. And it's also the one side of love square were feelings are mutual. Despite this, Ladrien is the least explored LS ship in the show. We don't even get a Ladrien kiss even though all 3 other sides of LS do kiss.

Which is weird. If this show is supposed to be reverse fairytale, why not go with Ladrien? Also, if Gabriel is going to flip the lid over any LS ship it should be Ladrien. The show making Gabriel Adrienette anti and Adrigami stan is really stupid, hilarious and out of left field when he clearly liked Marinette in earlier seasons and had no idea Adrien and Kagami even dated.

And as someone who likes fairytales and Love Square (at least what it could've been, not the travesty we ended up in the show with) I actually like the idea of Marinette being Adrien's knight in shining armour. It actually balances out Adrien constantly sacrificing himself as Chat Noir.

And it could've worked in the show. In the final battle. Without taking away Adrien's agency. Have Adrien show up as Chat Noir in the final battle to help Ladybug (the fact that he doesn't is frankly character assassination. You're telling me that Chat Noir, who has always been by Ladybug's side abandons his partner, his lady, when they're about to face against their number one enemy?! This makes no sense unless you're writing a negative character arc/regression for Adrien.) and have him take a blow meant for her from Hawk Moth, which incapacitates him. Then have Ladybug take his ring, transform into Bug Noire and finish the job by defeating Gabriel. (And No, Gabriel doesn't get to make a wish because that would be him winning. And no, he isn't redeemed either because the show has made it clear that he can't be redeemed at this point)

This actually solves all of show's problems. It makes Bug Noire mean something other than Marinette's cool power up. Now Bug Noire is a symbol of Marinette and Adrien's love, it's Ladybug protecting her partner from their shared enemy by combining both of their powers. It makes Marinette the hero in Adrien's story. It answers the question of: Why is Marinette the main character in Agreste arc? Answer: She's here to rescue Adrien from his abuser. This actually has Marinette and Adrien's love save the day. "The power of love always so strong" indeed.

But the canon instead has Adrien locked in a padded cell and any and all agency taken away while Marinette gets defeated by Gabriel due to her lowering her guard and trusting him when she shouldn't. Finale has Gabriel defeat Marinette and Adrien in the most humiliating way possible, at their lowest. I legitimately can't come up with a more depressing way to write Marinette and Adrien's character arcs. How does making Adrien a spineless doormat and Marinette borderline villain help anything? Season 5 finale can only work as a tragedy, because it has Ladybug and Chat Noir utterly fail as heroes, but the show pretends that nothing's wrong.

And then the show has Marinette/Ladybug straight up betraying both alter egos of Adrichat: Adrien by lying to him, by painting his abuser as a hero, by making him live with his abuser's accomplice without his full knowledge, by not telling him that he's not human but a sentimonster; Chat Noir by also lying to him about their common enemy, the man he killed, even though season 4 finale was supposed to teach her to trust and rely on her partner.

Marinette didn't rescue Adrien. She sided with his abusers. Can you imagine a fairytale knight siding with a wicked witch about the princess?

Writers could've written LS as a healthy ship where Maribug and Adrichat support and uplift each other, instead they accidentally wrote a story about a broken 14 year boy, used, abused and discarded, constantly having his autonomy, agency, freedom taken away, constantly deceived by people who are supposed to love and care for him, only to have his partner, his girlfriend, the love of his life, his other half act like his abusive father and enact said abusive father's will over him instead of freeing him, but she's all he's got, so he clings to her.

Only satisfying way to resolve this conflict is to have Adrichat confront Maribug But I seriously doubt that show would do a good job of it. Plus the fact that we even need to root for Adrien to go against Marinette instead of rooting for them to stay together means that the show already messed up. Marinette and Adrien's relationship is the foundation of MLB, if that's broken, then nothing else matters.

MLB writers have accidentally written LS as a messed up dark romance. Marinette is a stalker, Adrien can't take no for an answer, they're both incredibly possessive, Maribug acts as a control freak over both of Adrichat's identities, she expects him to cater to her every need, to be perfect for her, to validate her whenever necessary. She is his owner, Adrien is hers, Chat Noir is also hers. Meanwhile Adrichat acts as a perfect boyfriend/partner, fawning over her, who knows not to question her. The show has already shown that Chat Noir will mold himself into anything Ladybug wants. Chat Noir also has some... questionable qualities... mainly his murderous and self-harming tendencies. The show has also told us that Adrien can't find out the truth or else he'll get akumatized and blow up the entire world, including Marinette. And this is not even mentioning all the uncomfortable Gabriel x Emilie parallels.

The thing is, I do find Marinette and Adrien's messed up dynamic interesting to explore, I'll even admit that even when they're this toxic they still have amazing chemistry together, but this does not change the fact that this kind of relationship is absolutely not appropriate to depict in a kid's show of all places.

[catapuskai]

I have two sides. One that hates character salt and the other which salts on everyone. And by everyone i mean EVERYONE.

[nobodyfamousposts]

I remember seeing a post that said ‘Chat has to earn the right to hand out the miraculous’ but I never really understood what that meant? Like how would he ‘earn’ it?

First off, we’re approaching this from the wrong angle. I recall making a post about the issue of Adrien not getting to be the one to hand out Miraculous, but I’m pretty sure I said at the time that handing out the magic-granting world-altering jewelry wasn’t a “right“, it was a responsibility. No one has a “right” to the Miraculous whether it’s using them or choosing others to use them. That’s the sort of entitlement that got us Chloe and her downward spiral. Saying it’s a “right” is saying it’s based on what you perceive a person to deserve rather than what they are actually capable of handling. It’s a trap of thinking that someone “deserves” something so they are “owed“ that something, regardless of the reality of the situation. At the time, people were saying that Adrien “deserved” to be the one to hand out the magical jewelry—either alongside Marinette or from the general stance I saw from the people making that statement at the time, preferably in place of her.

The sad little meow meow may deserve happiness, but there’s nothing saying that happiness has to or even should come in the form of control over ancient magical jewelry and the gods within that can cause other people harm if the person involved is being irresponsible (like say using his partner’s Lucky Charm for a joke during a crisis when she was already on a time limit in Refleckdoll) or otherwise having a bad day and just not feeling like it (Catwalker).

As such, it’s not about Adrien needing to “earn the right” to hand out Miraculous to people of his choosing, it’s about him needing to show that he is responsible enough to make good choices regardless of his personal feelings and more importantly take accountability for his bad choices.

That is where we have the problem.

In Copycat, Adrien caused an akuma by lying to a guy about dating Ladybug. While he did try to solve the situation himself, he took no accountability in the process and his attempts to catch his double really came off more as his way of hiding what he did rather than trying to fix it. Especially since the episode ended with Ladybug taking the blame and apologizing to the victim for something that wasn’t her fault. At no point did Adrien admit what actually happened, and the truth never came out.

In Oblivio, he cost his, Marinette’s, AND the kwamis’ memories because he was messing around and flirting in the middle of the fight. We literally see in the clip that he is lounging behind Ladybug while she is desperately trying to deflect the blasts by herself to protect them both.

In Papa Garou, he is again flirting with Ladybug and distracting her in the middle of a fight when she is a little busy trying to stop the akuma from crushing a building. A building and specifically the bedroom of a friend of his whom he supposedly cares about and that he has no way of knowing isn’t in there being crushed to death by the akuma he was ignoring.

In Glaciator, he got mad at Ladybug for not showing up to a date she herself told him she likely would not make, and took such offense that he refused to work with her in the middle of an active crisis. Second verse same as the first in Frozer as he again put his personal feelings first and refused to work with her in a crisis because she wouldn’t give him the answer he wanted. Both times, she had to be the one to apologize to him for upsetting him, and he took no personal accountability for letting his own feelings dictate his actions in the middle of dangerous situations.

He followed Volpina without hesitation even over his partner and disregarded her suspicions but attacked Alya as Scarabella without trying to listen.

In Syren, he threatened to quit at a time that Paris was flooded and people were drowning because he wasn’t being told a secret that Ladybug was not allowed to share. In Catwalker, he DID quit because Ladybug was relying on people who weren’t him at a time he was consistently letting his personal feelings prevent him from coming out to help.

He has repeatedly let his own personal feelings get in the way of helping during active crises. Crises that are the only reason he was given the magical jewelry in the first place. That tells me that he’s lacking responsibility and that the passing out of the magical jewelry is a desire for making him seem more important rather than a necessity for keeping the city he is supposed to protect safe.

I recall an analogy was made before that compared him to a lifeguard who refuses to go out in the water and help someone who’s drowning because he’s upset. And it is an apt comparison. It doesn’t matter that the lifeguard “needs” this job or “deserves” the benefit of the role; if the lifeguard is letting something personal interfere in his duty to the point he’s refusing to save a person in trouble whom it is his responsibility to help, then he shouldn’t be a lifeguard.

So you’re asking me how I think he would be able to earn the responsibility to hand out the Miraculous? It’s that he be responsible. 

Not blame or lecture Ladybug/Marinette. Not refuse to help because he’s mad. Not change his identity to get another chance at dating Ladybug. Not sacrificing his life or free will for the upteenth time and leaving his partner to fix everything on her own yet again.

At this point, he’s a good support and fighter, but he’s not someone I could trust to pick a good person to use a Miraculous responsibly and return it afterwards. Or take action if that person won’t.

Because that’s the thing! Adrien won’t just be responsible for himself here. He will also have to take responsibility for whomever he chooses AND whichever Miraculous he hands out AND whatever results from the situation.

He, as someone who is friends with a bully like Chloe and tries to support a liar like Lila, has a bad judge of character and that person runs off with a Miraculous? That’s going to be on him.

He chooses an ability for someone who can’t use it properly? That’s going to be on him.

The person he picks gets injured or dies? That’s going to be on him. 

The mix of person and Miraculous with the situation that he cannot control for results in a bigger mess? That’s going to be on him.

And no, we can’t say that it would just work out and that none of that would be an issue for Adrien. We already have the proof that he couldn’t handle it.

It’s already Canon that Adrien fell apart and got himself taken out immediately after he lost Ladybug in Party Crasher. He refused to listen to Fu or get help—which would have been a perfect time for him to display this responsibility and show he could gather and lead other heroes. He didn’t. Instead, he attacked an enemy he knew had a one-hit takeout ability head on in close combat in immediate range of that ability, got himself caught, and Fu had to step in and choose other heroes to help. You could say it’s because of his love for Ladybug blinding him or that he was enraged, both of which are problematic enough in and of themselves. But you could also say that he can’t handle the responsibility of dealing with the crisis himself.

Adrien is the “nice” guy. He’s the “funny” guy. He’s the guy who will support bullies like Chloe and help make her feel better after she tries to crash a train and takes over the city. I guess he’s good at making people feel good about bad things they did or bad situations they’re in. So he is a hero who can fight bad guys and make people feel better. He’s a feel-good hero and that’s why people love him.

But responsible he is not.

[matt0044]

Y'know... some Chloe stans would have a point about potential sexism in her writing...

...if they weren't apply such double standards towards Marinette by proxy. Like apparently it's all support women's wrongs until it's not their blorbo. I might've preferred Chloe's could've been redeemtion but I've come to appreciate how her downward spiral was written as well as to recognize how the story doesn't hate her. It just wants to make a point with her about those who actively choose badly.

And this whole stalking thing is only ever applied to Marinette. Never Chat Noir when he was such a flirt with Ladybug or even getting pushy about their relationship. It was always his side taken in Season 4 yet never any consideration for Ladybug trying to be Guardian to powers that could DESTROY THE WORLD in the wrong hands.

Hey, you know how many claim that the narrative went too easy on Felix compared to Chloe? Y'all go too easy on Adrien compared to Marinette. Who's the hypocrites now? Can characters be multi-dimensional or can't they be? Can character do morally questionable stuff for those they love or not?

Get off your high horses, will ya?

[thesaltyoceanwaves]

What about Ladybug, is there any conflict you think she can be blamed for?

Anon, I truly had to sit with this one and think about it, and I came to this conclusion:

I have no idea how to answer this.

What I mean is that I know what the show wants me to think is her fault: not trusting Chat Noir enough or treating him as a proper equal. Not being sensitive to his feelings. Making decisions without him.

The problem is that the show undercuts itself two ways:

1. Ladybug affirming that Chat is her partner, they are a team, the other holders aren’t there to replace him, etc.

2. Having her be wrong about everything because she “needs to learn a lesson.” So even if she’s being a perfect angel or is being blatantly wronged… the episode’s problem is still somehow her fault.

With Chat we have the exact opposite problem - basically, nothing is his fault ever (except for like, once or twice), and he doesn’t really have to change. Even when he neglects his duties and ignores boundaries.

Do you see the issue?

[coldgoldlazarus]

Kinda wild to me that people are really out there going "Miraculous Ladybug is bad because Marinette is the main character too much and Adrien shouldn't be so overshadowed" as if Adrien isn't already a massive fucking tumor at the heart of 50% of the show's problems.

Misogyny in action, I guess, but it's still insane and aggravating to see.