#antistancy

[miwiromantics]

I can’t believe there’s still people out there who ship Steve and Nancy. Look at her face, man. Just look at her.

[ornitharts]

When I call you a stancy I mean it like it’s a slur btw

[michaelaggressions]

old news but there's a really obvious double standard in the way general audience expectation manifests for steve/nancy vs mike/will and this is unsurprisingly a result of latent widespread misogyny and homophobia. because while both relationships have an unresolved tension created by the presence of supposedly unrequited love (i say supposedly here because even if we are able to accurately analyze and/or predict the endgame, the show is undeniably creating this tension for audience suspense and tbh no matter what happens i think these expectations are very revealing), the very existence of steve's persisting feelings for nancy automatically fosters anticipation for resolution/payoff for STEVE, whereas will's feelings are reflexively categorized as tragic, unfortunate, and uncomfortable. and it's interesting to watch streamer reactions to jonathan's engagement ring through this lense, because suddenly jonathan who has been sidelined as a love interest for the near entirety of s4 in favor of focusing on steve's renewed pursuit of nancy, is understood to be back in the running. i'm talking specifically about how the audience immediately understands that the narrative has not counted jonathan out from that one shot of the ring reveal (chekhov's gun), and this is understood as something the audience must now at least consider seriously, even if they're still rooting for steve. nancy's feelings are of course still secondary (in fact, it doesn't seem to matter much that nancy hasn't made a move towards steve at all, and it's notable here that this absence is taken automatically as potential), and in fact jonathan's support of nancy and even his insecurities (which are very much tied to his love for nancy) are broadly disengaged with or dismissed entirely, which is how so many people are able to take the st*ncy vs j*ncy triangle seriously and, what's more, seriously on steve's end, because the general audience finds it easier to engage, empathize with, and therefore prioritize, steve's feelings/"arc" before nancy's.

in contrast, we have mike/el/will now explicitly paralleling the j*ncy/st*ncy love triangle. will's chekhov's gun: the painting. will's feelings, like steve's, being highlighted by subtle advances and explicitly hopeful, expositional reflection on how to tell if his feelings are returned. to be extremely clear, will is not a parallel to steve, he's an obvious parallel to jonathan. i'm comparing will to steve here because the writing techniques and focus employed to articulate their romantic feelings is tried and true across the show, textbook strategy to draw audience attention. this post isn't about proving which ship is endgame/has more proof, it's about pointing out the audience's hypocrital willingness to view steve as a viable love interest by virtue of the narrative attention paid to his feelings for nancy, compared to the general inability and reluctance to do the same for will. mike/will is so often relegated to pure subtext, a shocking twist that could only be foreseen by collecting crumbs and decoding secret hints. but even discounting every argument to the contrary, even if this were unilaterally accepted truth, it should STILL be considered viable by the standard set by the audience's reaction to steve.

[doriandrifting]

Steve really said, “I want a big family. Like six kids.” And they took us to the Bingham’s chaotic house and said, “Here’s Stancy’s future.”

It’s bones.

[hmspogue]

my 14 year old brother: "i don't care about ships in anything at all" also my 14 year old brother: *screams in rage when nancy gives jonathan his gift then walks back into the family room to sit with steve*

[miwiromantics]

People who ship milkvan and st*ncy always fascinate me because how can you be so wrong twice??!!

[miwiromantics]

i want more scenes with the wheeler siblings.

i want a scene between mike and nancy that showcase how similar they are in terms of this whole love triangle thing. i want them to have a talk, specifically of mike talking with nancy about how stressed he is about will and el and how they're in danger because of vecna targeting them at all time.

i want a scene where he expresses how confused he is about his relationship with el, and how even after saying 'ily' and telling her that he doesn't know how to live without her; their relationship is still rocky and distant. i want him to say that no matter how much he tries, he just can't seem to love her the way she wants to be loved.

and i want the scene to continue with nancy telling mike to be with someone who makes him feel whole, not somebody that makes him feel like he should be doing better. that he shouldn't change for anybody and that sometimes relationships are complicated and things go wrong. but what's most important is being with the people that make you feel loved enough.

and i want the camera to focus at her looking at steve and sighing, but her gaze slowly averts to jonathan and she smiles.

the same with mike, the camera panes to him watching el and will discussing something afar. the camera from his point of view focuses on el and he frowns a little, but his gaze softens as he looks at will. and we see him try and figure out what it all means

[miwiromantics]

ST ships and parallels - PART 2

this post is to point out similar parallels and their differences between the canon ships in the show, especially in favor of byler and jancy. this is a pro byler/jancy and anti-mileven/stancy post so if you ship the later dni or read at your own risk

most of the points here i've gotten are from the comments from this post. i will also be tagging the the original posters here (if u don't want to be tagged pls inform me to remove it)

this post includes: - byler/stancy parallel ✔️ - stancy/mileven parallels ✔️ - jancy/mileven parallels✔️ - byler/mileven parallels✔️ - byler/ jancy + canon ships parallels

part 1. part 3.

warning: !!! long post ahead !!!

Stancy/Mileven parallels:

4. Scenes

brought to us by lovely @robintheoriedbyler

there isn't anything to say further about these two shots other than that it is very similar.

in both scenes steve/el is looking at nancy/mike with sad expressions through a window. i interpret these two scenes as them looking at the other person through a glass; basically through a lens.

even if there isn't anything specifically negative about these two scenes, there is a jancy scene in the exact episode that kind of does oppose the second scene.

it doesn't say much but it definitely is something worth mentioning.

5. Privacy

one of my favorite stancy/mileven parallels. please read the original post by @bugsbenefit

this whole parallel exactly proves the point that mileven and stancy are almost exactly the same.

in the same episode

mike/steve are both welcoming el/nancy into their home and offering them new clothes because their own ones are drenched in water. the clothes are exactly the same: blue shirt and grey sweatpants

steve waits for nancy to undress in front of him but she asks him for privacy. mike hands the clothes to el and she decided to undress in front of them but mike immediately stops her and asks her to do so in the bathroom because of 'privacy'.

both Steve and El aren't familiar with the concept of 'privacy' (for totally different reasons) but only when Nancy/Mike asks for it, does Steve turn around/El changes in the bathroom.

But we know that Nancy does go against it and it immediately results in the uncomfortable stancy sex scene interjected with barbs death scenes.

both these scenes play out exactly the same in the beginning and they both clearly try to convey the same message; privacy. they are direct parallels of each other. but stancy was clearly meant to be making the audience uncomfortable and if mileven is being paralleled with them then...!?

i'll leave it up to ya'll to figure it out.

Jancy/Mileven parallels:

this is a pro-byler post but it wouldn't be fair to disregard the parallels between jancy and mileven.

1. Denying

in both these scenes, Nancy and Mike ask each other if they like Jonathan/El and they both deny it. They both then end up officially with Jonathan/El in the next season.

i don't have anything to say against this because it is a legitimate parallel between mileven and jancy. Both siblings deny their 'feelings' for the character that they will end up together with.

I think this is the strongest jancy/mileven parallel there is.

2. Reuniting

This scene isn't widely considered a parallel but i'm still going to be including this because it makes sense to do so. I think this scene moreover shows the difference between mileven and jancy and how the duffers view both of them.

similarities: in both these scenes, Jonathan/Mike run out of Argyle's van to reunite with their partners, Nancy/El. This was an especially important scene to me because these were after Steve/Will 'confessed' their feelings to them.

this was a scene showing that they're still happy to see the person their still with, El and Jonathan. This scene was supposed to show that no matter what Steve/Will said, Nancy/Mike still has feelings for Jonathan/El.

but it doesn't.

difference: how they display the following scenes after that are directly against each other. if you consider this as a parallel, then the following scenes should immediately disapprove that they are the same even if they play out the same.

how they show the character in between their ships are very different.

Will is directly in between Mike and El while Steve is shown to be passing them by instead. Steve isn't viewed as a 'threat' to Jancy while Will is to mileven. Will's confession actually holds some weight for Mike than Steve's confession does to Nancy.

Will's feelings play a very important part in mileven's relationship while Steve's aren't.

Will and Steve: this, again, bleeds into the Stancy/Byler parallel i talked about in the first post. One confession was purely out of selflessness while the other one was because of selfishness.

one more thing to support my selflessness/selfishness claim is that even if Will loves Mike, he isn't mad at El. He doesn't show his anger or show outward jealousy towards her. He isn't holding anything against her because he is clearly happy to see her. Will doesn't view El as competition.

Steve, on the other hand, outwardly displays his sadness when Jonathan and Nancy reunite with each other. It is to the point that Robin has to pet his back to reassure him. Steve views Jonathan as competition.

this is not to show hate for Steve, this is just pure observation.

I could've found a way to included this point in the first post regarding stancy and byler but i found it more fitting to use as a sort of similarity and difference between mileven and jancy.

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Byler/Mileven parallels:

now that we got jancy/mileven out of the way, let's talk above byler and mileven instead. these two ships are very written to oppose each other in every single way.

there aren't a lot of things to be expanded on regarding their parallels because it is so blatantly obvious.

i feel compelled to also mention that both ships are written with opposing tropes. 'friends-to-lovers' and 'love-at-first-sight' are vastly very different categories.

1. 'yes' and 'no'

one of the most mentioned opposing points between Mileven and Byler are their first words to Mike. El's first word to Mike was 'no' while Will's was 'yes'.

'no' vs 'you said yes'

i think it's sort of on the nose to mention that the first thing El does is disagree with Mike while the first thing Will does is to agree with with him.

2. 'Understanding'

the most obvious parallel between Mileven and Byler is during Mike's scenes with both Will and El in season 4.

In this scene, Mike and El are arguing because Mike doesn't tell her he loves her. She uses the line that is directly paralleled to his conversation with Will.

'you never say it' 'i say it' vs 'i didn't say it' 'you didn't have to'

this scene so simply means that El needs to be reassured by Mike that he still loves her because his actions are not saying it or even displaying it.

her asking for this reassurance immediately disapproves the argument that he just can't say 'ily' because of his parents. even if he can't say it, he can still show it through his actions. her asking for this means that he hasn't been showing her that he loves her especially with scenes like:

'what did you do' and 'she didn't look fine'

she needs to still hear that he loves her. she can't read that he does.

the whole 'i didn't say it' 'you didn't have to' scene opposes them exactly with mike saying that he doesn't need words to understand what Will was saying. Will's actions were enough for Mike to understand him.

this further proves my point when we take into account that Mike had no idea El was lying to him the whole time in rink-o-mania. he didn't clock that she was uncomfortable with Angela and her friends when they came up to her.

even when Angela took her away, mike wasn't responsive. only when Will outwardly stated that something was wrong did he actually have a reaction.

and even in this scene where mike is calling out to el but she runs away from him instead is not just her being embarrassed in front of him but also her not reading him as someone who would be able to comfort her.

he isn't someone she finds comfort in anymore. she literally wants to hide herself away from him. and even then, she begs Angela to tell Mike that it was all just a joke and that they are really friends because she doesn't understand Mike enough to know that he would still love her and regardless of it. that she would still be someone 'cool' in his eyes without all these lies.

but she doesn't.

Will and Mike, on the other hand have a whole other relationship dynamic. they don't need words to understand each other because they can read the other based on only actions.

will understood mike's expressions enough to know that he needs reassurance during the desert scene and mike clocking will enough to know that he wasn't enjoying himself in the roller rink. in the second scene, Mike uses Will's actions (rolling your eyes, moping) to determine that Will was annoyed and moody the whole day, there was no need for Will to even say it.

byler doesn't need to say anything to know each other while mileven does.

more parallels in part 3.

------------------------------------------------------------ i would like to make clear that these are my interpretations of the scenes, it doesn't mean they r actually canon. these are just observations made by me. this is part two of the parallels between ships. thank you for reading!!