#bird primary model

[wisteria-lodge]

Have you sorted Dumbledore before? He seems like a great candidate for this framework, especially with how divisive he is and with how much about him is open to interpretation. I really love your thoughts on this!

I think he's a Snake Bird, like Voldemort.

Albus has a pretty clear Bird secondary. He loves collecting (trinkets, artifacts, interesting memories.) His first step when fighting Voldemort is doing a big research deep-dive into his past. He loves a complex multi-step plan - the chain of events caused by the specific wording in his will is probably the clearest example of that. Voldemort once describes him as "omniscient" and that is the goal - Albus wants all the information, all the time. He also loves his Wacky!Dumbledore persona. It's fun, and it's great for throwing off suspicion. Very Actor Bird of him.

I do think his confrontation with Barty Junior at the end of Book 4 is interesting, because that's the most *pissed* and out-of-control we ever see him. There, the energy is very kick-down-the-door Lion secondary. Burst in with his guys at his back, stun him, physically kick him over, and give Barty Veritaserum so he tells you everything. (And then lose track of him in the aftermath, resulting in him getting Kissed.) I think a Snake secondary could have finessed that a little better. Maybe come at him a little softer, used Legilimency, gotten more info out of him, used him as a hostage... but Dumbledore is a Bird secondary who was missing a MASSIVE piece of information, he needed time to re-calibrate. Bird secondaries who have been very wrong-footed or are put in very unfamiliar situations often start looking like Lions.

In terms of Primary... I think he's a very, VERY Burned Snake who models "For the Greater Good" Bird because it doesn't feel safe to trust people (and 'people' does include himself.) Like he'll talk a good game, but when it comes down to it:

"What did I care if numbers of nameless and faceless people and creatures were slaughtered in the vague future, if in the here and now you [Harry] were alive, and well, and happy?"

The thing with Grindelwald hit him with the intensity of a Snake just really connecting with a Person for the very first time. Because like... young Albus just didn't have any connections like that. Elphias Doge worshiped him - which isn't an equal relationship. Ariana preferred Aberforth, his mother was entirely focused on Ariana, his dad was in prison. And Aberforth... is important, and I think Albus actually really did want and continues to want his "rough, unlettered, infinitely more admirable" brother's approval. But at that point, Aberforth thinks that Albus is a selfish, irresponsible jerk.

But then Grindelwald betrays Albus, which shatters him for a while. Grindelwald's running around Europe, Albus is hiding at Hogwarts because he's too Burnt to do anything else. He fundamentally does not trust himself anymore, he doesn't trust the instincts of his Snake primary. I'm not sure he ever does again, until maybe Harry. Albus thinks he's right about Snape, but he doesn't know, which is why he likes that visual check-in that Snape's Patronus provides. Albus starts modeling Bird primary, hard, because it hurts a lot less to live in that space.

But like he can't cut that Snake primary out of him completely. It's too core to who he is, he'll die. The Drink of Despair (and the Mirror of Erised) takes him right back to his People. He needs these connections, but those connections don't feel safe. Enter Hagrid, clearly very important to Albus - despite being not especially useful and often kind of a liability. But what he IS is someone very Aberforth coded... who will never leave or betray him. (Because Albus has just so much power over him.) I've written about Dumbledore's habit of collecting strays before, but I think it's a Burnt/Exploded Snake thing. He wants connection, but also sees connection as dangerous, so this is his (subconscious) solution.

Generally, when Albus does dumb things, it's for Snake reasons. Putting on the Resurrection Stone? Trying to talk down Draco when he should have just stunned him (and died Master of the Elder Wand?) In that moment Draco is one of his students (who he IS loyal to.) But he's also kind of Aberforth - totally outclassed, shouldn't be here at all, just trying to protect his family.

The house-matching helps explain why Dumbledore and Voldemort just... get under each other's skin to the extent that they do. They have a very emotionally charged relationship, considering that they prefer to keep each other at a distance and only interact through proxies. Albus has a deep distrust of Tom from the word go, even when Tom hasn't actually done much apart from be a creepy ten-year-old. (Tom probably reminded him of Grindelwald ngl. Or himself.) Albus has his collection of Voldemort's most important memories, and Voldemort is uniquely afraid of him. Diary!Tom frames the Basilisk vs Phoenix battle as a conflict between himself and *Dumbledore.* Like these two are wrapped up in each other, and I think it's because they're actually very alike.

[mooglesorts]

i have not been active on this blog in a While and being very normal about my old hyperfixation lorien legacies, which has an absolute fuckload of characters to sort, has finally gotten me to crawl out of my hole.

[spoilers ahead for both lorien legacies and its sequel series!]

there is a LOT of ground to cover here, and i am mostly going to limit myself to sorting characters and themes from the first series, but my initial notes are:

probably one of the biggest overarching themes of the series is toxic birdsec, and the harm it can do to every aspect of a society or a person's life--on both a systematic level and an individual one--right down to their basic humanity. by extension it also goes into similarly fucked up lion and bird primary used as weapons and tools of abuse, and how they interplay with each other.

a large part of this stems from setrákus ra being The Worst Fucking Lion Bird Ever to Live, lmao. he's an interesting example of birdsec interplaying with cannibal badger, and also of a lion bird who's a cheetah in that he uses systems as tools to manipulate people instead of actually believing them. he hands out toxic systems like candy while peppering them with outright lies, and blithely admits that even the one that he's put centuries into building--mogadorian progress, and the great book--is at its heart just a ruse to run his cult on. the truth he pretends to worship and champion isn't external, objective truth--it's an extension of him. he is the ultimate truth. and the only truth he believes in is his cause, which is that he has the right and ability to own, make use of, and do whatever he sees fit with everything in existence. everyone and everything that could possibly be a shiny or a tool belongs to him.

one of the other overarching themes is toxic badger primary and secondary--cannibal badgering AHOY--as well as toxic lion primary, and it is a great deal less intentional than the bird cautionary tale part lmao

five is a bird snake with deeply toxic lion primary and bird secondary models, one of which he picked up after getting involved with a cult, and one of which he's had since his abusive birdsec guardian started amputating his masks by trying to apply actor bird to them. :') his brand of birdsplode and snakeburn make him horribly, horribly vulnerable to the cult, especially combined with focused, one-on-one gaslighting and manipulation from setrákus himself, and he has to burn his bird right to a crisp to break away from it. i am very biased and i have so much to say about my boy, but i plan to go in depth about this later

there are a LOT of lionsecs among the loric garde kids. the only surviving ones who aren't lionsecs are marina's badger and five's snake (the latter of which is heavily villainized, lol); number one is either a lionsec or a snakesec, maggie is either a birdsec or a badgersec, and we don't really see enough of hannu to be sure, but my guess is badgersec. in context, whatever these books are saying here i am not sure i like it lmao

this stands in contrast to the non-garde allies, minus adam, who end up being Part of the Gang. sam and lexa are birdsecs, and sarah and malcolm are both badgersecs.

speaking of adam, he is a lion snake with a cool, calculated double bird performance/model, who has been waiting all his life for a chance to go Absolutely Feral. there are a lot of ways in which he's a real shithead, which track given his life and circumstances up to then but are also real 😬 sometimes, but like, good for him. go ape shitt, kid

nine is an awful, AWFUL double lion who models/performs the worst parts of badger primary; he also uses lionsec stereotypes and methods to misdirect people, so that he can hurt, gaslight, prey on, and abuse them. it's genuinely interesting how he does it, and i could go on for a long time about it, but it's also Infuriating because the authors really want you to love him for being a ~charming jerk with a heart of gold,~ so that is for another post. in the sequel series he also picks up a nasty posthumous birdsec model from sandor to gleefully torture children with so lmfao

there seem to be a lot of birdsecs and badgersecs among the mentor cêpans, which tracks, because, well, mentors. interestingly, it seems to be a pattern so far that the birdsec mentors are either some of the most deeply abusive among them (see: rey, sandor, and ethan even though he's an unofficial cêpan), or the most decent parents of them under the circumstances (see: katarina).

john is a hognose (badgery snake) 'i live here' snake lion, and a VERY loud one. he's set on saving the world mainly a) in order to save his People, or b) because it's what they would want. he also believes STRONGLY in snake values as applied to other people, and absolutely cannot grok that anyone would feel differently--he holds back on killing a major enemy because he's worried about killing a friendly acquaintance's Person--and honestly he can be kind of a huge dick about it lmao. he burns HARD at the end of the first series when sarah dies; in the second, he copes by making an entire community into his circle and no longer gives a shit about the rest of the world outside it, including groups who are in similar if not worse circumstances than his community. Horrific War Crimes Ensue!

rex is an everyone double badger and i love him so much. i love him So Much. he is a wonderful example of how to write a morally dubious character whose dodgy qualities interest me instead of making me grit my teeth and Tolerate Them. his arc could have fixed So Much of the Ending's Bullshit and i will be forever mad that they dumped it in the trash

there is more, oh my god there's so much more, this series has SO many characters in it, but this is a start thank you for coming to my ted talk

[ethereal-skye]

Burnt Badger Primary // Bird Primary Model / Snake Primary Performance

“’I feel terrible, like there’s a heavy weight on my chest.’ ‘A heart’s a heavy burden.’” - Diana Wynne Jones, Howl’s Moving Castle

[solcomfortssouls]

I'm trying to figure out my Primary. I'm definitely an idealist, but my problem is this: I can't figure out if i'm a Lion Primary with a pretty strong Bird Primary model or a Bird Primary with a strong Lion Primary model. Could you help me with that? How should i approach this?

Bird or Lion primary

Bird and Lion can look very similar to each other, esp when you identify with the reasoning, philosphing and control over your mind like a bird, but also with the cause, ideals and instincts like a lion. That's how it felt to me at least.

I have totally seen myself in bird primary and it has only been a crisis situation I came through in my 20s that sealed the deal for me for lion primary. I'm a very logical detached person. I pride myself in being in control of my mind, of setting my mindset, on being able to concentrate on whatever I decide. I love my critical thinking, I love talking about why people think or do or believe what they do. We can do it over breakfast and lunch and dinner and reconstruct each side of the conflict and I won't get tired of it.

But when I logically decided the best for me would be studying law, because it's a stable career, I would have a good paid job, I like articulation and arguments and with my best grades and thinking abilities I could ace the studies - it didn't work. Because I hated the content. Because I didn't get fascinated, I didn't care about the cause, it was all memorizing and playing with words and after 2 years I was miserable from my incredibly logical sensible college choice.

So I left, found a faculty I never even heard of, small and cozy, most people don't understand what I'm studying, not to mention what I'm going to do with it. But I love every second of it. It's all critical thinking, discussions, reading of texts and then bringing your own opinions and interpretations in, it's writing and research and analysis and I love it with all my soul. I ace the exams. Now I work as a tutor for younger students and can see myself doing a PhD and staying in research and doing my own classes and it's a dream I didn't know I could have.

My mind told me law was a good choice. My gut was protesting it after the first month. This is not it. This is not for me. No passion, no fire, no cause, nothing. I set my mind to do it anyway, cause all the reasons. It didn't work. I have heard this tale from bird primaries with how much they ended up liking their logical choice, how they came to enjoy the benefits they figured and planned to have from it.

I can still set my mind on smaller things. I can support my gut instincts by doing the research and backing it up with arguments. But I can't go against my gut without being unhappy and miserable and feeling like I'm betraying myself and living a lie. In controversial topics, my lion roars in protest and I want to fight everybody. My bird primary model is screaming in the background to shut up and do the sensible thing of being quite and not burning down my bridges. In minor things, I can do it. In major things, I suffer doing it. In major major things, I can't control myself at all.

So I would start with that. How do you react in crisis? When you have a problem, when your logical mind and gut are in conflict, what do you choose and why? Can you adapt to what your mind decides?

Can you live with yourself, if you go against your insitics? Against what your "heart" is telling you?Cause a lion primary sure can't, even if their bird model is super strong and dominant in dialy life.

That's my experience. Hope it helps!^^

P.S. please send sortinghatchats asks to my writeblr @writingonesdreams in the future, thank you!

[writingonesdreams]

I have always felt like I couldn't understand bird primaries, feeling allergic to them, but maybe I actually have a bird primary model? Like I love the discussions about philosophical and ethical standpoint and reasoning why I feel some way. I still think that what I feel comes first, that I trust my instinct about things like a lion primary would, but I so love to explain and support that with arguments like a bird would...

[starfrost-echinops]

Hi!

I need to update this, but haven’t yet, so just ignore everything below the cut ^^

SHC Primary: Snake w/ Bird model

SHC Secondary: Snake w/ Bird model, + a people-focused Badger performance & a things-focused Badger model

—old stuff that I don’t want to delete due to reminiscing purposes—

Celebrating the reboot of my Tumblr account

I’m starfrost, previously [redacted], and this blog will be about the Sorting Hat Chats, the fandoms I’m in, and things I find to my liking!

(A post containing me roasting myself while discussing my Sorting is coming soon!)

Tags:

#my day: daily Logs

#life thoughts: self-explanatory

#sortinghatchats / #my sorting: self-explanatory

#useful: things that are / could be useful

#inventory: may contain fan arts, memes, incorrect quotes, along with all others ;]

-💫❄️

*: I was going to do a post listing all the fandoms I’m in, but there are simply too many and I’m afraid I’ll miss one or two :p

[wisteria-lodge]

lion primary (bird model) + improvisational secondary (bird secondary model)

ME AS KID I made so many mistakes without meaning to, for example… ~ Once in kindergarten other kids had created something with building blocks and because no was there anymore, I believed it was alright to destroy it. Well, it wasn’t fine, and after I got scolded, I felt bad and tried to create something even better for the other kids. I think they reluctantly forgave me because I put so much care into it.

Hm. This could be almost anything, really. An understandable, honest mistake, especially when you're y'know. Five. And wanting to fix the mistake, that's just a human thing. I guess you could say that putting a lot of effort into re-creating the work versus socially engineering the situation is a little Prep-Work secondary? Maybe? It probably just means that you were more comfortable doing a single-player thing vs multi-player thing with your secondary.

~ Once I was on a 12-metre diving tower and when it was my turn a boy asked me if he could jump before me and I agreed. But then I became impatient and just jumped on impulse. I landed on top of the boy and could only recently talk about my guilt regarding that and how I feared I might have hurt him permanently or could have killed him in the worst-case scenario.

That's a lot of guilt for another thing that was not your fault. You were a kid playing around. It happens. If anything, I think it's the fault of whoever was supervising the pool. You're using the the metric system and have British spelling quirks, so I know you're not in the same country as me. But I gotta think that it's a thing to have a lifeguard, parent, teacher, or at least some upperclassman or older sibling keeping an eye on a 12-foot high jump. Even for like, legal reasons. If you had accidentally hurt the boy, someone would have been legally liable, and it wouldn't have been you.

~ I was very possessive about the playtime with my sisters and normally they’d leave me as soon as the neighbour kids wanted to play with them. One time one of my sisters chose to continue to play with me and I was over the moon that for once I was chosen as priority.

~ I made sooo many lists; for example about what names I wanted to give possible future pets or what I had named every single one of my stuff animals.

Lists... I tend to associate those with Bird, all things being equal. And the rest of this, especially the examples that you decided to pick... do kind of support an Idealist primary read. There's this really strong, almost overwhelming focus on morality and guilt, possibly one that's even left you a little afraid to act, and with little bit of a tendency to take yourself out of the equation and make other people (your sisters, the boy on the slide) more important than you. Which is something that's maybe more of a Burnt Bird primary thing, but Burnt Lions do it too. Especially because Burnt Lions are really big on modeling other primaries.

LOW STAKE PROBLEM SOLVING Just play and find out the rules and possibilities as I continue without giving in or up and without relying on a guide (because that takes away my joy). I also tend to imprint on the first method that works for me.

Sounds like an Improvisational secondary (Lion or Snake.)

I also like to stay off the radar and play the invisible that one no one takes notice of, while silently going for the win.

I mean, *stereotypically* that is extremely Snake Secondary behavior.

For my stories I first need loooooootttssss of worldbuilding and character descriptions and later I add and change many details because it fits better but I needed that base to start at all.

Okay. So I know this looks like Prep-Work secondary behavior. BUT. One thing I do hear a lot from Improvisational secondary writers is that... it's a lot more fun to go in and mess with something that exists. ("Play with toys that are already there.") And that's honestly what this sounds like. Not worrying about the outline. Just figuring out your world, your characters, letting them go bounce off each other, and then when it's written - go back and structure it out retroactively. Of course, you might totally have a Bird secondary model if you find worldbuilding really fun.

I don’t shy away from asking strangers for directions, but you could never catch me trying to do small talk.

Yeah, you're definitely more Single-Player.

MY FANTASIES ~ As a kid one fantasy was that my stuffed unicorn would come and bring me away from school and the people bullying me there. They’d realize how incredible my companion was and how they couldn’t compare before I’d fly away with my unicorn and would never have to return.

Been there. VERY relatable. So relatable, in fact - especially with that detail about everyone realizing how special you are - that I'm tempted to sort you as Lion just on the basis of that alone. Young Lions are very susceptible to "chosen one" type stuff.

I wonder though. Because like... it's the unicorn that's the special one. The fantasy is really you having a wonderful, amazing friend. Which goes back to that story earlier, about being just over the moon that your sisters wanted to play with you instead of the neighbor. Is it possible that you're a Loyalist with a very small community? Or a Snake? That would keep the "internal primary" energy of 'I don't need you people. One of these days I'll just leave.'

~ As teen I fantasized about living alone in the woods, far away from any humanity, completely and utterly free. I’d be my own hero without needing anyone else.

Sounding very Lion there. Maybe your fantasy leveled up, and you started being able to think of yourself as the hero, instead of the hero's friend.

~ Now the fantasy would be big house in peaceful nature, where I can give children who ran away from their homes a temporary place to stay, protect & help them to become independent until they can stand on their own two feet. Ah, and I’d love to be a hobby author in the meantime.

So we've got one more level to the fantasy. Now it's like... the fantasy is to be the wonderful friend you wished you had as a child. I've always thought that there's a lot of truth to the sentiment "We become the person who would have saved us." Maybe that's what's going on here. I still think Lion though - there's not enough focus on individual loyalties to be Snake and while this whole Miss Peregrine's Home for Peculiar Children thing does revolve around a community, it's one that you caretake, not one that you're part of. Very Paragon Lion.

A CHARACTER I IDENTIFY WITH Xiao Lanhua (LBFAD) She’s so vibrantly herself in that messy, fuck-around-and-find-out way. I adore how she’s utterly confident in her own feelings.

Oh. Lion. Lion primary all the way. Of course you'd like a character like that.

There is one scene where another character leads her to the place, where her clan was massacred, telling her that the culprit is her love interest. This is basically her answer: “I tried to feel the sadness of this place, but I couldn’t. I’ve felt it only once (with the people of her love interest). What is real in this world? I only know, I love him. This is real. He loves me. This is also real. And this is who I am and not this person you all want me to become.” THIS vibes so much with me.

To a Lion primary, the realest Real thing is what what you feel about things. That's the bedrock, and that's what this quote is about.

Also in the start she’s a powerless fairy who is content with a low-rank-position, convinced that this is her place. And as the story continues, she becomes like: Watch me stopping whole wars, going through tribulations to earn the position besides the one I love and the recognition of his people. (It resonates with me, because I’m currently also learning that yes, I can handle responsibilities… somehow everyone trusts me far more than I myself. But even so, I won’t back down.)

I think your timeline of fantasies shows that really, really well.

WHAT MAKES ME FEEL POWERFUL ~ When I’m able to assert myself and my standpoint

Lion primary

~ When I’m able to successfully achieve something on my own without having needed the help of others

I think this probably points to a very strongly single-player secondary. You've consistently been uncomfortable with multi-player, this whole submission.

~When I get others to smile, especially ones who hardly do. ~ When people thank me earnestly.

This... I think is human stuff. I'd be more unusual to *dislike* being thanked.

THE MOST DIFFICULT TIME IN MY LIFE I was the problem child in the family as I skipped school & had social problems. Then my mom got health problems, and we all had to help in the household. At some point my dad called me ‘a nobody’ to my face (he was angry, but otherwise clear minded and he’d also implied this message a few times before) and fourteen-year-old me took it at face-value and let it grow and fester inside of me. That was when I decided to run away from home (after all, if I was ‘nobody’, then if I was gone, ‘nobody’ would be missed as there wasn’t ‘somebody like me’ in the family). So, I planned out my escape, did research on the internet, thought about what I might need, how I would leave without making anyone suspicious, bought a train ticket and then left my home and waited for the train. Minutes before the train arrived, I called my mum - thinking, if she doesn‘t answer, I‘ll leave and I‘ll stay if she doesn‘t want me to go. She didn‘t want me to leave and so I stayed. But for years I still fantasized about running away, but never acted on it again.

Hm. You sound some flavor of neurodivergent. Your escape plan is very... you know, planned. (And pretty much every neurodivergent person built a bird secondary as a coping mechanism.)

The way you talk about your decision-making process here does seem... much more Bird primary than Lion primary. Very "if x is true about me, then y must be true also." You're a little *detached.* Same thing with the "well I guess I'll ask my mom." You're treating it almost as an experiment. But I still don't think this is just a straight Bird secondary. What I suspect is that your Lion primary Burned enough that you started modeling Bird primary, as a coping mechanism. Which is why the two seem... kinda mixed together. But all your fantasies and positive associations are very Lion flavored. AND your Bird seems to come out more when you're in trouble, and not sure of yourself.

MY FAMILY I adore my family to bits and pieces despite the difficulties (partly also because of the difficulties as they knitted us closer together). My dad is a double bird with science deeply rooted into his belief system and lots of tools. He also immediately accepted my behaviour as soon as I was diagnosed with Autism.

Yep, this helps explain where your Bird models came from. Burnt Lions will often start adopting primary of some confident force in their life that really seems to... know what they're doing.

(Even so, the ‘nobody’-comment stuck with me and only thinking about it made me cry for years. Later I did talk to my dad about it and was able to settle that matter. My dad knows he was wrong, tries to make up for it and never said something like this again. But I know I’ll break all contact if something like that happens again. I’m only currently finding myself and I’ll be damned if I let anyone drag me back into this hell!)

I'm glad you... kind of resolved this with your dad. But what I'm hearing is - I'd rather be alone and free than have a community I think I need to compromise and bite my tongue for. That's very Lion.

I’m not sure about my mom, maybe snake, maybe bird? Like, she tells me, I should try and make more contacts outside of my family to have someone I can talk about and relate with when she and my dad are gone, though as long as she is still here I can always come to her. She helps very much, so I guess badger secondary, but she knows her boundaries very well.

I get that you're a very solitary person, and maybe it's my own Badger talking, but I do agree with her. Human beings are pack animals. And something like this, reaching out like this, is hopefully helpful.

I think both my sisters are badger primaries. One with a bird secondary and the other I think partly lion, partly badger. They’re awesome but I’ll never understand how much time they invest in their big friend groups. I adore my me-time for myself far too much and am VERY protective about it.

As my family is very educated and I mostly only fiddle with my few interests, I often seem to lack common knowledge that everyone else in my family has. That makes me feel stupid at times and as if I should learn more, but I honestly only want to spend my time on the things I like.

I mean, autism, special interest, preferred task, I hear you.

My fam often says that I’m their peacemaker,

Are you the middle child? You seem like the middle child, and this is a very middle child comment.

but I don’t know. I tend to fuck up too many situations (especially socially ones) because I just tick differently from lots of other people.

You also seem to (historically) blame yourself when you don't deserve it.

Yea, I like peace and I don’t want to shatter it, only if it’s important and even then, I try to stay kind while being right. But sometimes this makes me feel as if I’m not authentic enough or if I’m too cowardly to be honest and that’s often followed by guilt. I’m not quite sure, but I think I relate my autism with being authentic because now I can finally be authentic with my diagnosis backing me up.

There is a sort of weird gift to autism, because you are almost *forced* to be authentic. There are definitely times in my life where I masked like crazy, where I would have given anything to be able to choose to be weird, instead of just being weird. But... autism is going to step in, and have its say.

But that in turn makes me fear that if I’m not honest enough, I don’t have autism and then, where would that leave me and my relationship to others? Would they start seeing me in a negative light again? Part of me knows (hopes), they wouldn’t, that it shouldn’t be relevant to WHO I am, but somehow, I still can’t shake of that thought. Might have to talk about that with them. At some point. That’s it from my side, sorry for ending on a rather depressing note. Wishing you all the best.

Don't worry, you're fine.

I mean, for one thing, not being 'honest' enough doesn't mean that you don't have autism. My relationships where I can be truly honest are ones I treasure, because much of the time... it's just not something I find particularly useful or safe. You learn to be better at people, you arrange your life to suit yourself better. And in my experience at least, I don't think that a diagnosis *really* effects how people treat you all that much, socially. I mean, your behavior hasn't changed. If they were going to be weird about it, or not respect your boundaries without a diagnosis, then chances are a diagnosis isn't actually going to change that.

You read as a pretty loud Lion primary to me. So loud that I actually don't know if you're a Lion secondary as well, or if your Lion primary is just sort of coloring those interactions. Also, because you are so solitary, the Lion and Snake secondaries are going to look more much similar than they would normally. Some of your video game behavior leans Snake, but there's also an emphasis on honesty and a dislike of lying that leans more Lion. I'd want to look at some more instances of problem solving, because it could honestly go either way.

Thank you to O for such an excellent submission. If you’d like a Sorting of your very own, commissions are open on my ko-fi. :D

If you’d like to read more about the system I’m using, my explanation is right here.

[wisteria-lodge]

lion primary (bird primary model) + bird secondary (badger model) (actor bird performance)

If you’d like to read more about the system I’m using, my longer explanation is right here.

I discovered your tumblr through shc several months ago and have really enjoyed reading through all your resources on shc. I don't normally spend money on typing services because of their cost or because the typist doesn't seem competent. It also feels less awkward to have this be transactional versus an anon ask.

Honestly, I know what you mean, and at this point I think I agree.

Anyway, thank you for making this service available and I'm looking forward to your analysis. Also, feel free to make this PUBLIC, aside from the notes about my diagnoses

Okay, lets get to it!

Tell me about what you were like as a kid: Social interactions were always difficult and felt uncomfortable/forced. I tried to reach out to other people but kept being rejected. I eventually created a mask (formal, competent, responsible, hard working)

Extremely relatable neurodivergent experience, as is building yourself a Bird secondary model to get through the world. This right here, this is all Actor Bird.

and a great superiority complex to protect myself.

Very relatable for a young Idealist. We'll see if you are a Bird primary, if you model Bird primary, if there's some Lion in there... there are lots of ways this could go.

That led to many years of emotional suppression which I’ve been working on undoing. I was big on following the rules.

'Emotional suppression' could speak to a burned Lion... but that together with 'Big on following the rules' is making me lean Bird primary. Being just generally persnickety about following the rules is usually a young External primary thing (Bird or Badger.)

Didn’t pay much attention in school, I would read books during class. Tended to procrastinate on assignments. Was big into creating fantasy worlds or reading as a distraction from loneliness.

And boredom too I bet, especially in class. That's a very relatable thing... as is using adrenaline to hack your brain and get everything done in time. But all that really tells me is that you're neurodivergent (which you've already told me), and that could fit with any sorting.

I was in several “groups” throughout elementary/high school but I never felt like I completely belonged.

And you were lonely, so being alone bothered you. (No one likes being alone of course, but Lions... generally have the easiest time with it.

My friends have always seen me as being straightforward and blunt, very detail oriented. I think my perfectionism and meticulousness annoys them (“Why does she put so much effort into that?) I’m not good with sorting out emotional problems,

Okay. In the terms of this system... we'd say you've got a single-player secondary that you like to keep in neutral. (A lot of character sortings only talk about Snake secondaries going into neutral, because it's the most obvious when they do it... but it's something all the secondary will absolutely do around people they trust.) Describing yourself as putting a lot of effort into everything and being very meticulous (even when the people around you aren't matching that energy...) is making me think Bookkeeper Badger. Although Bird - the other prep-work secondary - is also possible.

but recently I’ve been able to mimic how a person would comfort someone. It feels fake and forced though. I mask a fair amount whenever I’m with anyone I don’t feel comfortable around.

Most masking is a flavor of Actor Bird modeling... although this might even be Actor Bird performance, if it feels that artificial.

With friends I’m not emotionally vulnerable. I can talk about my experiences, but I don’t go much into the emotional side of it/downplay its impact.

That's a human thing, that can potentially fit with any sorting.

My parents were very generous with their friends and often hosted gatherings. I was often called on to help out and modeled those behaviors with my friend groups. I often baked for my friends. I had a crush on this girl in choir and I was in the kitchen nearly every weekend baking something for her and the rest of our section (to avoid suspicion).

That is very sweet. And very Badger secondary. Although I am taking into account the possibility that your parents are Badger secondaries, and you could be modeling them.

Tell me a high-stakes story about you solving a problem: Me and my family were climbing Mt. Fuji this past summer.

Damn. Impressive.

My dad and I had done enormous amounts of research into the logistics for the trek and made sure everyone had proper gear. My brother wanted to arrive at the summit in time for the sunrise, but I didn’t want to wake up that early. I ended up going along with the plan. We woke up and it was raining heavily. About 45 minutes in, my mom started complaining about the cold. It quickly deteriorated into slurred speech and shivering, which I recognized as early signs of hypothermia. My brother really wanted to summit, but my mom was not in the state to continue. I wanted to summit, but I ended up letting my dad and brother continue hiking. I had to force my mom to go back down to the shelter (she was confused and insisted on hiking), and given the states she and the trail were in, I made the right decision taking her down.

It sounds to me like you saved your mom's life. And you did it... with research. You did the research beforehand, you knew what hypothermia looks like, you stuck to your guns and acted from a place of power. That sounds like a Bird secondary to me. Also, you sound a lot more sure of yourself (and proud) of yourself telling this story, than the story about the baked goods.

Tell me about the process you go through when you’re making a really difficult decision: Usually I can consult my wants and see which decision I prefer.

Could this be you checking in with your gut feeling?

If that doesn’t work, I’ll expand my perspective. Do more research into the decision, consider how it impacts others. Sometimes I try a pros/cons list but that doesn’t help much. I get outside opinions from trusted individuals and talk it over with them.

There are two ways you this could go. You could be a Lion primary who just doesn't get that many emotional pings (og Sorting Hat Chats called these "morally bored" lions, which I think isn't *quite* fair, but it gets the idea across.) Basically - if you care, you care a lot, and if you don't... eh, model Bird. OR I could see a situation where "decision I prefer" means "I've already done the research, and the answer is self-evident." Then, If isn't, you move to research, potential collateral effects, and pro/con lists, which is all Bird secondary.

However... it also sounds like your family culture is this very team-orientated Badger. Your parents have a ton of friends they love hosting, we've got family mountain-climbing expeditions. So of course you model some of that family Badger secondary.

I don't have much connection to my gut feelings. Sometimes I feel if something is right or wrong, but I rarely get those feelings. Generally, I “know” what is acceptable or not, but it isn’t emotionally charged. I can’t force myself to feel intensely about topics, it just happens.

That's actually reading a little more Lion, a lion without that many Causes (TM) (and who therefore spends a lot of the time modeling Bird.)

What’s your fantasy? I have this craving to be one of the best at something, or make a big contribution to/create something. That something changes relatively frequently (eg. Singing, snow science, wagashi, etc).

That kind of "I want to be the best" is usually a... young Lion primary thing? Also, you have a very interesting list of interests, and I had to google "wagashi." It's funny, I'm really going back and forth here, because your general energy is SO bird.

It’s incredibly emotionally draining to believe in that dream. I don’t like committing to big goals like that because it is so painful to fail or be rejected (eg. Applying for summer internships, I accidentally set my heart on one and there’s such an intense want to be accepted. But that desire doesn’t quite reect in my work. I still pursue what brings me pleasure or distraction in the short term).

Perfectionism (unlike meticulousness) is a self protective thing - if you don't put a thing out there, if you're never quite finished, then you can never quite fail. And rejection... is very brutal, if it's something you care about. The good news is that your secondary doesn't seem to be *burned.*You're still clearly doing stuff. It just sounds like you maybe want to set your sights bigger? - which again, idealist, relatable. I guess I would say... smaller goals can be idealistic too.

I also want to understand myself and make sense of who I am. Sometimes I wish there was some objective ruling that could tell me who I was, to save me all the struggle and emotion with sifting through my identity. I also long for some stability and meaning. Ties into the turbulence of not understanding my identity.

I think... you like Bird primaries (maybe your dad is a Bird primary?)This sounds like a version of something I call "the Book Fantasy" I hear it from a lot of Bird primaries ("I wish there was a magic book that would give me all the answers / tell me objectively the right thing to do in every instance.") But that isn't quite your fantasy, is it? Your fantasy is to not have to deal with the emotion, just have everything nice, organized, laid out. That feels like a Lion looking in on a Bird, to me.

It does feel like, even though I’m much less repressed than before, that something big is still locked away. I tend to not be in touch with my goals/wants/passions unless I’m involved with them (eg. I love singing classically and it’s been a wonderful outlet, but when I’m in that state where I should sing to release my emotions, it’s very difficult to remind myself how much I enjoy singing).

I don't know, that language of being "locked away" and needing to remind yourself that you enjoy things, that's (slightly burnt) Lion primary language.

I tend to focus on specific aspects of myself and those shine through more prominently.

Actor Bird (I feel pretty good about that part of the sorting, at least.)

One consistent fantasy I’ve had is to run a small cafe with exceptional food, but is not well known. Something intimate and expressive that shares my love for good food with regulars/the occasional passerby. Another is to devote my life to working on a tea farm/spending a year at a monastery/learning and perfecting some niche craft.

The connecting thread though all of this is the love of something small. You talk about wanting to make a "big contribution to/create something," and I'm wondering if that's more of a "be well known/respected in my field/community." In which case - I love that goal, and you can flit around and be a big deal in many communities. Don't have to commit to one thing forever.

(I've always thought it would be wonderful to be like - Sherlock Holmes, with one VERY specific thing that you love and are really good at. But you have to pick, which is much harder. I always love it when people have interests that don't *match,* though)

What makes you feel powerful? Not powerful per se, but a big motivator for me is feeling wanted and loved. I purposely place myself in useful positions or contribute to a group (if I care for it). Usually takes the form of admin/secretary related tasks or being the “mom”/overprepared friend. It feels terrible when I’m just there while everyone around me is socializing. By taking on those roles, I have a place and am needed. People interact with me because it’s necessary to. And it’s a distraction from being lonely.

You talk about your Badger secondary in... slightly more negative language than your bird secondary. It's useful, because it's a coping mechanism that distracts you, and makes you feel safe. But I'm still thinking Bird secondary for you, because that's what makes you feel badass.

I’m the one planning/hosting events for my friend group. My family has always hosted events for friends/family and I draw from that experience. Doesn’t make it less tiring though. I turn on my “get shit done” mode (which I also use for admin work) to make sure my friends enjoy themselves.

Oh yeah, you definitely model your parents' badger secondary.

But people and functioning at a high level are exhausting. I usually need 2-3 days to recover from one hangout.

I hear you. I think you might enjoy leaning into your "bluntness" - who are the people you feel comfortable being "blunt" with, or not performing/modeling for?

Similarly, being skilled in some area. I struggle with self-condfience and self-worth. I feel very empty/hollow (though I can ground myself through hobbies). I don’t know enough, or what I know is niche and rarely appears in conversation. Even then I don’t bring myself to learn about what could come up more often. I immerse myself in my interests. I think that being skilled would make me wanted in specific communities.

I agree, and also think that being in those specific communities would make your niche topics pretty darn good conversation. I'm really tilting back and forth between Bird primary and Lion primary for you it sounds like - you're plenty authentic to yourself, but what you really want is to plug that authenticity into a larger external structure? Lion causes don't have to be huge though, to feel worthwhile. A Lion's Cause *could* absolutely be their hobbies.

Tell me about your parents/family situation/current living situation: I used to be much more emotionally repressed (especially before my diagnoses). I only started feeling very close to my family in late high school. My mom felt very constricting when I was younger. It was always do this, do that. She would always give valid explanations (lawyer reasoning), and what she asked of me benefited me (eg. At least 10k steps per day) but it was always demanding and I didn’t like being bossed around. When I talked back we would fight. In hindsight, I am very appreciative of the habits she instilled in me.

I am definitely doubling-down on Badger secondary for your mom. Possibly Double badger, when I factor in how much she seems to get from hosting a lot of dinner parties. It's very badger to have a list of "correct" things that you (or your kids) just have to do. But, I also see how that you might have rubbed up against her Badger way of going through the world in a way that wasn't exactly pleasant, especially when you were younger. Also, this helps me understand the way you think of your Badger as something very good, and useful, but maybe a little core-like and draining.

Many of my friends don’t have strong habits and I see how it affects them negatively. After my diagnoses, she was more understanding of how I functioned differently from her. She was an executive functioning queen whereas I tend to procrastinate and at the last second do my research, then slide by the seat of my pants. We both realized I needed more praise and affection when I was growing up. I also realized I’m a very physically affectionate person. We hug more often and I really enjoy that.

I am very glad that the story with your mom has a happy ending. And your Badger model definitely isn't unhealthy - just, sometimes it sounds like something you sometimes get tired of using.

I’ve never felt as emotionally close to my dad. He’s very cerebral and meticulous, always learning and wanting to improve. We share an eye for detail and gathering information (and physical affection), but in response to me being vulnerable with him, he’s always given advice or a solution, or his empathizing is very clearly forced (even though he does care deeply).

I wonder if a lot of your Bird primary modeling doesn't come from the dad. Like, you're not that emotionally close, but there's something about his placid, calm way of going through the world that makes seems admirable and easy. But you've got something else in you that isn't quite content with going through life the way he does, and I think that might might be your Lion.

Thank you to M for such an excellent submission. If you’d like a Sorting of your very own, commissions are open on my ko-fi.