#sortinghatchats

[writingonesdreams]

Kpop Demon Hunters - Sortinghatchats

Based in @sortinghatchats system and on posts from @wisteria-lodge. Haven't done this in a while, so feel free to correct or argue for other sortings. Spoilers ahead!

Rumi is the leader. Although each of the girls has a strong suit, Mira with the choreography and Zoey with the lyrics, Rumi guides them with her drive, her voice, her willpower. Very leaderly. She is the one who decides to publish the new single, she is so hard-working and obsessed about the mission to make the Honmoon gold she cuts their break short and hurts her voice.

At her most desperate and ashamed, when her patterns grow on stage, she keeps talking about the mission and how to fix it and do her duty. Not for the world, not for the fans, not for Zoey and Mira (though she loves them). Rumi yearns to tell the truth about her half-demon heritage and her patterns - if she was a loyalist, wouldn't she yearn for their acceptance? But Rumi believes she will get it, she just wants to be able to be real. Lion primary.

Rumi also snaps out from the demon fog by reciting the demon hunter oath ("we kill demons with our song") and shines the brightest against the demons when she reveals her patterns ("my voice without the lies, this is what it sounds like").

Mira and Zoey first turn away from her because she lied to them, not because of the patterns she lied about (once Rumi sings about getting rid of the lies, what it cost her and how she regrets not believing her friends, they immediately snap out of the demon trance and connect with her song). Zoey says they don't know how to trust her, when they both point their weapons at them. This reads very loyalist from both girls, not like a decision based on principle of hating demons.

Rumi also jumps at problems. Attacks demons, threats and Jinu head on. He wants to talk. She wants to fight. How to get closer to solving the apocalypse? Put out the song, make concernts, hurl in like a hurricane. Lion secondary.

Mira is a very clear lion secondary too. She is blunt, aggressive, straightforward, voices her doubts. Likes to be scary, even when she gets self-conscious about it afterwards. Love her verse in Golden of "called a problem child, caused I got too wild, now that's how I'm getting paid". She isn't ashamed of who she is, but she fears people won't love or accept her.

Her worst shame and fear is not having a family - Zoey and Rumi as her family after being rejected by her parents - so when it turns out Rumi lied, Mira's world falls apart. Mira is also very protective of Rumi and quick to anger, when the fans are threatened (though all three are). This actually reads very loyalist to me. She wants to connect, to belong, to have her unit and safe place. Snake or badger primary. She ranks people according to importance though, with Rumi and Zoey on top, so I'm leaning more towards Snake primary.

Zoey is very badgery. She wants to please, she overcorrects, she is too much and not enough. Her arc in the Golden song is about being torn between two places, US and Korea. Badger primary loyalty conflict. Zoey also has 6 notebooks on possible new songs about hating demons, is quick to adjust the lyrics.

When Rumi rejects the Takedown song as being too hateful (and too personal to her, when her idea about demons not being all bad is challenged by Jinu), Rumi and Zoey don't understand, but Zoey agrees, cause the song isn't connecting the three of them, so how could it connect to the fans?

This hard work and the effort to please and take care and avoid conflict (Mira and Rumi are both more confrontative) reads badger secondary to me.

Jinu is a smooth-talker. A charming manipulator driven by guilt and self-loathing. He comes up with the sneaky plan to manipulate the crowd. Gwima himself says Jinu has always done things only for his own personal gain for 400 years. Jinu betrayed his family for a luxury life and became a demon, though he was hunted by leaving them to die without it.

Jinu reads like a snake primary to me, who has betrayed his people and hates himself since. He is willing to do anything now to stop the memory of hurting them replaying in his head, to stop Gwima's voice. His whole arc hinges on betrayal, guilt, protecting his own skin vs. trying to atone — all classic Burnt Snake themes.

And yet, while hating his old betrayal and seducing to survive, he still craves connection and longs to trust Rumi and take her offer to fight against Gwima together.

Jinu is too ashamed to tell Rumi the full truth until the very end. Though he longs for her understanding, he doesn't believe he deserves it — or her help. Deep down, he has never forgiven himself for what he did, and he doesn’t believe he can be saved. So he hides behind half-truths and carefully edited stories, reaching for connection while keeping the ugliest parts of himself buried.

When Rumi finally opens up to him — sharing her most painful fears and confessions — Jinu uses them. Not out of malice, but because he’s desperate and lost. He weaponizes their connection to trigger her transformation on stage, exposing her patterns to the world. And even as he does it, he’s crying. Rumi screams, “What we had was real!” — and it was. But he betrays her anyway, because he’s too burnt and bitter to believe in anything anymore, especially not himself.

And yet, it’s Rumi’s strength — her refusal to give in, her insistence on truth and light — that breaks through to him. When she stands tall in her truth, unafraid, it unburns something in him. For the first time in centuries, he sees a way out. And in the end, it’s that spark — that belief — that allows Jinu to sacrifice himself to save her.

Tbh I love this arc. This is how you do romance with a lion protagonist. While Jinu gave Rumi a glimpse of what she yearned for most — how it might feel to be fully herself with someone else — it wasn’t their connection that saved her. Rumi saved herself. With nothing but her willpower, her voice, and her belief in the truth, she broke free. And in saving herself, she saved them both. Her strength reached him when nothing else could.

Rumi changes the desperate reality, "frees his soul", unburning him in the end enough for him to find redemption and freedom.

Jinu's methods is to charm. He charms Rumi, the crowds, he dances, he sings, he has the right words and the right lyrics, knows how to use his looks and the looks of the demons. His voice is his weapon, his insight and manipulation so strong he turns the tides for the demons against the hunters. And he enjoys it. Rumi hunting him down with her sword is just fun evading for him.

Double snake.

We don't get to see that much about Celine as the previous huntress, but we know she talked Rumi out of telling Mira and Zoey the truth. She installed the shame in her, even if she raised Rumi after her mother died. When Rumi confronts her ("Why couldn't you love me? All of me?")

Celine can't look her in the eye and says raising and loving Rumi went against everything she was taught to believe as a hunter. Seems like a bird with a set system of demons=bad, having to integrate with the system promise to a friend=have to raise Rumi even though I hate it. And she failed. She couldn't figure out in herself, she just kept lying and lying, making Rumi lie and hide her patterns and fight for a dishonest Hanmoon. Until Rumi realizes this Hanmoon has to fall for a healthier and stronger one to be built.

Celine's failure is moral rigidity — choosing the rules over her love for Rumi.

We don't see enough around her methods to say, but she gives me bird secondary vibes. Plans, rules, steps, hide and do your job as it should, prepared.

All in all, a beautiful story about fandom, fame, and the power of art — how it connects us and exposes the best and the worst in us. About the price of truth, the weight of shame, and the healing that comes from being seen — not despite who you are, but because of it.

Rumi - lion/lion

Mira - snake/lion

Zoey - badger/badger

Jinu - burned snake/snake

Celine - bird/bird?

[wisteria-lodge]

you've mentioned your sorting of remus, but how would you sort the other marauders? maybe snape and lily too?

Remus I think you could plausibly sort multiple ways, because that primary is super Burnt. But I do think he's probably a Lion Badger, and that's how I write him. Partly because I think it's interesting if he house-matches Peter (that's an old sorting that uses the old terminology, but I stand by it.) Who is definitely a Lion Badger.

Sirius is so obviously a Snake Lion, do I even need to explain it? James (and then Harry) is his Person. Remus, Lily, Peter... they're important but they're not JAMES. Regulus - that relationship is written ambiguously enough that it could fit multiple places, in regards to Sirius' loyalty. James himself seems like an immature Glory Hound Lion who matures into a Paragon Lion. You can see his Lion secondary in how he deals with Voldemort, how much he hates being cooped up, and how attached-at-the-hip he is with Sirius.

Lily... is another one I think you could argue multiple ways. Probably not a Double Lion, romantic couples usually don't match exactly. I do get Snake primary energy from the way she stays friends with Severus even after none of her friends like him and he starts going off into the political deep end. She waits for something pretty extreme to happen before she cuts him off... and then she does cut him off pretty dramatically. She's certainly not afraid of confrontation... so maybe Lion secondary, like James and Sirius? I guess James likes Lion Snakes.

Severus... for ages I thought he was a Snake Bird. I do think the Bird secondary is fairly obvious: he collects skills and knowledge, he's an inventor, a happy Snape is an info-dumping Snape, his spying ability is framed in terms of a learned skill (occlumency.) And I was like, the Lily thing = Snake. Done.

But now I don't think so. Lily isn't a person to him, at least not during the main timeline of the books. She's the symbolic corner stone of his constructed morality system. Like we see him start to build it, that's what the the conversation Dumbledore is all about, and we see the first step of the process, where "Protect Lily" is expanded into "Protect Lily, James, and Harry." If you build a moral framework to facilitate the core concept "Protect Lily" and then it stays in place after Lily is dead... well, that's a very rigid, not very healthy Bird primary, but that is a Bird primary.

tl;dr

Remus - Burnt Lion / Badger

Peter - Lion / Badger

James - Lion / Lion

Sirius - Snake / Lion

Lily - Snake / Lion

Severus - Bird / Bird

[the-phoenix-heart]

Sorting Hat Chats - The Malfoys

Since the Malfoys have been a bit of a hot topic lately, I decided to give them their sorting post similar to what I did with the Weasleys...3 years ago??? Where does the time go??

Anyway, this is an explanation of the system I am using by @wisteria-lodge.

LUCIUS MALFOY is blatantly a Badger secondary. His methods are to make donations to people, goad Arthur Weasley into a fight so he can slip Ginny the diary, he uses blackmail against the other members of the Board of Governors, calling in favors, and when in the hall of prophecies with Harry and his gang his strategy is to talk him into giving the prophecy over. It's what makes him so effective in the first five books, but is also why once everyone knows the truth about him he is in a constant state of free fall.

As for his primary, I think it's fairly obvious that he's a Snake. He can look like a Badger, dehumanizing muggleborns and joining the Death Eaters, but that's a performance. When the chips are down, what Lucius really cares about himself, his wife, and his son. Snake Lucius is willing to get rid of every association to the Death Eaters he had, and in the Second Wizarding War is not enjoying himself at ALL. He's also clearly got that Snake hedonism to him.

NARCISSA MALFOY née BLACK is an equally blatant Snake primary, although she doesn't appear to even play the part of a Badger. Everything to her is her son and her husband (and her husband takes a backseat to her son usually). Narcissa doesn't even appear to like Bellatrix all that much anymore since Bella is a threat to her family. Down to the end her motivation is always to keep Draco safe, damn the consequences.

As for her secondary, since she's such a minor character you can probably make an argument for any of them. But I personally think she's a Snake secondary, making her a Double Snake. This is a woman who lies to Voldemort's face and doesn't get caught. Who is willing to go behind his back and make back-alley deals with someone like Snape.

I've sorted DRACO MALFOY once before with @awinterrain which you can read right here, but I would like to reiterate it and expand on it.

Draco may be the epitome of Slytherin in the books, and he may hate Hufflepuffs and think of them as "duffers," but this boy is Double Badger down to his bones. This is a boy who cares deeply about communities. He defines himself by them, first as a Malfoy, then as a Slytherin, then as a Seeker on the quidditch team, then as part of the Inquisitorial Squad, then as a death eater (which he doesn't care for). I think at the beginning of the series he's a good case for an Immature Badger primary, where he just IS the group he's into and nothing outside of this.

His Badger primary can look very insular and Snake-like, partially because pureblood culture alienates everyone outside of it, and partially because his family is so Snakey that it colors the look of his Badger primary. Idk if I would even call it a performance or a model, it's more like a flavor.

But he does start to look like a Snake primary in his Sixth Year, where he's single-mindedly focused on saving his family. That's because in Sixth Year he burns after joining the Death Eaters. And it's honestly really sad, but it's because Draco has realized his communities are toxic and not good for him. The Death Eaters aren't good, they're the reason his father is in prison and his mother is in danger. This is the year where he really stops engaging with his peers and is sort of just coasting on his former reputation.

But that Badger shine is still there, and it's in the fact that Draco Malfoy has to kill Dumbledore and cannot do it. A true Snake Draco Malfoy would probably have gone through with it, even if it he felt bad about it. Badger Draco, who spent books 1-5 shit talking Dumbledore at any opportunity, cannot do it. I think it's because 1. He isn't ready for casual murder, and 2. I think Dumbledore for Draco represents one more community that he identifies with-Hogwarts. And clearly he does care about Hogwarts (I don't think the Room of Requirement would reveal itself to him if he did).

As for his secondary, Draco is his father in miniature. Draco is a tattle tail, he has bodyguards that follow him around, he usually goads Harry into confrontations so Harry gets into trouble and Draco can have plausible deniability. What's most interesting to me though is Draco's proclivity for elaborate smear campaigns. The "Potter Stinks" badges are HIS work as is the "Weasley is Our King" song, which is very...mean badgery. Like this is his community building with Slytherin (arguably all of Hogwarts with the badges), and using his powers to bully Harry. It's funny, despite everything. He does perform Snake though, to make everything look quicker or look like his mother.

Even his methods when he has to kill Dumbledore are Badger powered. Working on the Vanishing Cabinet all year, poisoning Professor Slughorn's mead he intended to give Dumbledore, and charming Rosmerta to imperious Katie Bell. But, he still has that influence from his mom where he can lie to someone's face (though not as convincingly).

I think Draco looks at his father's Badger performance, and thus thinks they house match. And it explains why he is so wary of his father after the Death Eater reveal, since Draco has realized he does not enjoy that sort of Badger primary.

As a bonus I decided to sort BELLATRIX LESTRANGE née BLACK as well. Since for some reason the movies always advertised her as part of the Malfoys. No doubt about it she is a Lion secondary. I don't think Bellatrix has every learned the meaning of the word subtle. She never lies in the series, just blasts the truth out whenever, and is always an attack first think never character.

As for her primary, can she be anything other than exploded snake primary? Her everything is Voldemort. She doesn't really care for anyone outside of him, with the exception of Narcissa, who stopped liking Bellatrix when she became a danger to her son. I think at one point she had a Badger performance or model that allowed her to willingly marry someone like Rodolphus who she doesn't appear to like, but by the time she's going to Azkaban she doesn't care. It's honestly such a Black Family sorting. Sirius was a Snake Lion as well, and the culture of the "Noble and Most Ancient House of Black" seems to just be Snake coded in general.

So...

Lucius Malfoy - Snake primary, Badger performance/Badger secondary

Narcissa Malfoy nee Black - Snake primary/Snake secondary

Draco Malfoy - Badger primary, Immature at the start, burns in his Sixth Year, has a Snake performance or flavor/Badger secondary, Snake performance

Bonus:

Bellatrix Lestrange nee Black - Exploded Snake primary, Badger performance/model long discarded/Lion secondary

Sirius Black - Snake primary/Lion secondary

[spe-rrow]

I JUST got into Sorting Hat Chats last week and I’ve been down the rabbit hole since. Guys I’m literal years late to the party is anyone still here… 💔

[alix-in-july]

I absolutely love Snake primary characters but it honestly rubs me the wrong way when *all* the women in a work of fiction are Snakes. It often ends up with them just serving as the men's love interests and not having their own compelling storyline. Or with their storyline essentially coming to an end as soon as they get together with a guy because now they're the mom/wife/etc character and relegated to the background.

[liltalle]

Sorting A Practical Guide to Evil - Sorting Hat Chats

This web serial is one of my favorite stories of all time, and it's all about differing perspectives on morality and the effectiveness of different methods—perfect for SHC. (The premise is a girl of the heroic mold joining up under the Dread Empire to help her people when all the attempted heroes have failed—reminiscent of Baru Cormorant if anyone's read that.)

I've had sorting notes in my back pocket for years, and it's high time I put them out into the world. I don't know how many people here are still into it, it's still live if anyone wants to try it, but there will be spoilers below. The basics of the sorting system are explained here, archetypes reference found here.

Catherine Foundling - Badger Lion. The Dark Protagonist sorting, I love it. Cat is very clear that her loyalty is to Callow, and a core theme of the story could be described as the lengths Loyalists are willing to go for what's theirs, how they shed Idealist restraints, and how they discover that sometimes playing nice is actually the practical way to get what they want. Cat is contrasted early on with William, who at least performs Lion, with his naive idealism about the ideal of Callow, the King, the banners, "freedom". Cat insists that it's about the people and their well-being, under whatever flag. She is attached to Callowan culture, grudges and so forth, "she is Callowan, in the end", and those ideas drive her decisions, even as she breaks with some of them. It's a source of conflict and sadness for her, that she's gone against her people to help them, that they hate her, that she can't last as Queen. Her Primary becomes more open as she goes on: she comes to see Praesi as more diverse and human, she adopts the Fifteenth and its varied peoples until she becomes a banner for all oppressed people's under the Praesi, and her aegis eventually extends over all of Calernia when it's clear that the only way to solve her problems. But her heart never seems to leave Callow. She regrets sacrificing personal loyalties for what she needs to do, but she always does it. And the recklessness and ruthlessness of her Lion Secondary is legendary in-story. Everything explodes around her, she sacrifices her own life as an opening gambit, her power depends on an unbroken string of victories, she's a Thresher (as the Pilgrim describes her) driving deep loyalties and animosities. She picks up a Bird Secondary model from Black as the story progresses, learning to stand back and scheme from a distance rather than risking herself, and it reaches brilliant heights at the Prince's Graveyard, she relished the planning and stayed steps ahead of everyone else, but she's a brawler at heart.

Amadeus of the Green Stretch - Badger Bird. The King / Mob Boss archetype is on point. An inveterate schemer, de-facto king of Callow, always has another sword or sharper in his shadow. Maddie tries to convince Cat that he's on the side of Evil spitting in the eye of the Heavens, but as @lilietsblog argues eloquently here, his true loyalty is to Praes. He raises the idea of Evil as a group for Cat to put them on the same side, and engage that Lion Sec defiance, avoiding the clear fact that their loyalties are to Praes and Callow, and those are likely to clash at some point. He hates much about Praes, but Alaya correctly points out to him that he can't butcher his way into being born in a different homeland. Everything he does is to break the cycle that's devastated his homeland (and Cat's, but that's not his problem) since its foundation. Watching Nefarious' rout and learning about the grain problem are formative experiences for his path. His break with Alaya is a clear split between their different Loyalties: he's loyal to what Praes could be, needs to be, and is willing to break it to make that happen, while Alaya is a Snake in need of control, and she's content to play the game if that's what she needs to do, reform is a nice idea to her but it's not a moral imperative. Amadeus dies for it.

Akua Sahelian - Double Snake (Double Bird model). - Akua thinks she's a Double Bird early on, with all her speeches on "iron sharpens iron" and the glory days of Evil, her elaborate brilliant schemes and devices. But it's not where she truly shines. She becomes something different after Catherine beats her on the terms of her philosophy and shatters her plans. She's a spirit bound to a cape and she... works with it. She's endlessly subtle and seductive, she plays the Woe off each other and inserts herself into the group with alarming ease. She loves flirting with Catherine, she prides herself on her resilience - a Snake Secondary. As for the Primary... oh, poor Akua. She was deliberately Burned young, when her mother ordered her to kill her only friend by her own hand. Akua remains attached, amazingly, to her father, and a little to Barika, though she doesn't want to admit that one. Her father's death is one of the times we see her truly wounded. When Catherine beats her, her philosophy says that she belongs to her now, but that bond becomes something else. The easy companionship of the Woe, that Akua's so deftly maneuvering into, makes her feral. She describes being invited to a fireside feast with Cat's friends as maybe the cruelest thing ever done to her. Because there's nothing in the world she wants so much as love like that. Catherine herself becomes Akua's focus, someone she wounded beyond all forgiveness becoming the only person she wants... (God, this story. My unBurning Snake Primary bleeds with hers.)

Hakram Deadhand - Double Badger. We have a Evil Peacemaker too, it's so good. Hakram is Burnt at the beginning, not because of trauma, but because nothing's really inspired him until Cat. Her project brings him to life, and he loves it... until his people need him. It's a terrible decision, but in the end, the orcs are his in a way Callow is not. (These conflicting Badger loyalties between people who love each other do make my Snake sad.) And he, along with Scribe, is one of the most brilliant Badger Secondaries I've ever seen. He has magical paperwork-speed abilities, he doesn't sleep, he maintains vast networks, he's explicitly the power behind the throne. And when pushed to a crisis with Vivienne, what does he does but sacrifice himself, embodying the solution, trading a piece of himself for her trust. He's kind and scary and thorough, I love it.

Indrani - Double Snake. Girl's a pretty easy sort. She cares about her hedonism and her freedom and her friends. She's a flirt, she talks a lot but carefully doesn't reveal much. She's the one to tell Cat how deeply the personal loyalty she's offered means to the Woe. She singed under Hye's harsh treatment, put that cruelty onto her fellows, but with Cat's kindness, she unBurns that part of her Primary, reconciling with Cocky.

Masego - Double Bird. Another on-the-nose stereotype, our magnificent autistic boy. He's got a speech about his world collapsing before his eyes was a formative experience for his effort to understand the nature of reality. He's frank that apotheosis is a higher priority for him than his friends, but he does work them into his system a little. He invents a new theory of magic. He's unsettled by Cat's recklessness, he's tempted by knowledge, he's a magpie when it comes to arcane tools... I want to talk about him more because I love him, but I think this one's solid (it could be the standard autistic Bird Secondary model, but he seems very comfortable with it, so, Occam's Razor, it's his base).

Vivienne Dartwick - Lion Snake. I have a less of a read on Vivienne's internals, but this one makes the most obvious sense. Her loyalty shift is different than Catherine's, and I think it's suggestive how Cat leans on Viv as a moral compass when she doesn't trust herself. While I don't remember the details of why she joined the Woe, Hakram convincing her to stay I think points strongly to Lion. She doubts herself and her worth, and it throws her into a spiral, until she knows, by Hakram's brutal in-her-face sacrifice, that she's trusted and needed. And then she lights up again. Her Secondary... she's literally doing the Robin Hood thing, she fits the archetype. She doesn't build her network quite like Hakram, she doesn't seem Built at all, she's quick on her feet, but not great in a direct fight.

Alaya of Satus - Double Snake. Alaya's formative moment was when her father was nailed to the floor of her inn by the Sentinels. She was powerless to protect someone she loved, and then she was kidnapped into one of the most dangerous environments on Calernia. Her Primary got a little Exploded wrt her need for control, she sharpened her Secondary to terrifying subtlety, and she became Empress. As I said above, her break with Maddie about her need for control ("Praes is a game that can be won") vs. his moral drive for reform ("Praes is a mold that can be broken").

Scribe - Snake Badger. - Scribe's function is to serve Amadeus (even without his knowledge), and her abilities are the apotheosis of a Badger Secondary - unobtrusive, insanely fast at paperwork, can maintain a cross-continental spy network from a tent. (I'm so jealous.)

Sabah - Snake Lion. - Sabah fights with the Calamities because they're her friends, and is happy to go home to her husband when they don't need her. She's slightly sad about the heroes she has to kill, but if they're in her way, she doesn't regret it at all. Her hammer, and the directness of the Beast? Very Lion Secondary. She gains power on her vision quest when she just... asserts loyalty to the Calamities and fucking kills the god.

Wekesa - Snake Bird. Another Occam's sorting. Wekesa blatantly cares about his husband and son, his friends, and his fun research. He refuses to run a mage academy for Amadeus' project because it would be annoying. His specialization in wards and creative use of that is one of his edges. And it does fit the archtype.

Hye Su - Lion Bird. I'm a little baffled by Hye, but this one might work. Her need for freedom points to an Internal Primary, and she doesn't attach to people really. She dedicated to herself growing stronger, doing ridiculous things like visiting Keter to see one of the few people who can still challenge her. She fights the Queen of Summer, because (and is vicious about her dignity, she doesn't kill them for annoying her because Amadeus would be bothered, but it's a very shallow Snake model). And the Secondary, I'm going off of vibes: the impulse to perfection, to turn herself into the weapon, the hard work, resonates with my Badger Secondary, but she doesn't network at all, and it feels more like a Rapid-Fire Bird, learning new tricks for Keter's traps every time, but internalizing everything so she'll be ready for anything. Her tools, her Aspects, are meta, they're about learning, and they're very dangerous, but I think it's a superficial similarity to a Badger's become-the-tool method.

William of Greenbury - Burnt Snake, Lion. I'm taking the more interesting choice here. William is tormented by a choice he feels he can never be forgiven for: butchering his sister to save himself. While any Primary is likely to find this horrific, a Snake would find it the most pointedly devastating. And running with this theory, we find William trying to model a Lion Primary by running to Contrition. I think a True Lion would hate himself a little less, would see a righteous cause as meaning something in atonement. William feels that the debt can never be paid down. That Burning's in his Name, he's the Lone Swordsman, he doesn't connect with anyone anymore. And the Lion Secondary seems straightforward. While he's not the best inspirational leader, he mirrors Cat in ruthlessness and blowing stuff up and self-sacrifice.

Cordelia Hasenbach - Double Badger. Another of the many nationalist Badger Primaries in this cast, Cordelia is loyal to Procer. She only seeks to rule it when it's clear no one else can save it from itself, she works herself into the ground, crosses lines with superweapons, all for her love of her country. And her power is in her mastery of etiquette, that thing the Lycaonese usually scorn, Southerners don't expect it of her, but she triumphs in the Highest Assembly in her darkest hours via mastery of the rules even in the midst of a coup. I can feel her Secondary's delight at winning within the system despite the chaos around her. And she refuses to cheat by taking a Name, she's no better than anyone else, they're all citizens of Procer and no one is above the law. She's only tempted by one when she seems to need one for her people to be safe.

Hanno of Arwad - Double Lion. I'm a little confused about Hanno, but the coin is definitely about a Burnt Idealist leaning on something external to himself, which he then loses, so he has to learn to trust himself again. And he feels more like a Burnt Lion using the Seraphim as an infallible external system (imitating Bird). Secondary-wise, he's offended by the suggestion of deception. In the trial of the Red Axe, he expects his heroes to be good, fights Christophe to the ground when he has to, but refuses further action, he feels betrayed when Cat and Cordelia come up with a clever solution around him.

Juniper - Lion Bird. Juniper's in love with war, the challenge. Not because it's an orc thing, she avoided her responsibilities to draw battles in the dirt, but because she wants it. Glory is motivating to her, she wants to fight battles like no one's ever seen, she revels in it. And her methods are very explicitly Birdy: she likes a versatile toolbox, and she's the best at using it. Only a Built Secondary could plan out a battle, see the crossbow she has pointed at the enemy in her mind's eye... and go to sleep, confident that her forces will win without her.

Robber - Double Snake. The beautiful little gremlin. He wants to be free of the Grey Eyries, he delights in mayhem, bloodshed, and pranks, he's loyal to Cat personally and gives no shits about the rules (to Juniper's exasperation)... love him.

Pickler - Double Bird. A simple guess: she loves engineering... and that's kind of her whole thing, she wants to make cool new ballistae, Robber and Nauk's attentions are nice but they're not her focus...

Kairos Theosodian - Bird Snake. In the Artist archetype with the Joker, he's got a philosophy about why he's truly Evil, and delights in chaos and betraying everyone around him and using that chaos as a ladder until he goes out in glorious making-a-point.

Phew, that was so many characters (I could add Grey Pilgrim, Saint of Swords... but it's long enough for now). I haven't brushed up on the books in a while, let me know if I got any details wrong.

This book has much to say about morality and problem-solving that I feel I should have more meta relating it to SHC, maybe I'll work it out another day, it'd be very fun, but I've wanted to post this for actual years, so... here it is!

[missbrunettebarbie]

Gotham Knights SHC Archetypes

Inspired by this and this

[collegetennisoriginstory]

Rayyan to me is a Double Lion. They have a Lion Primary- they listen to their intuition, have a clear sense of right and wrong and their Cause is becoming a professional tennis player. They’re the type of Lion Primary who is adamant about their Cause and as a fellow Lion Primary that’s kind of sexy of them to me. They’re also a Lion Secondary-they are themself and hate to lie, they charge and take things head on.

Tobin on the other hand screams Badger Primary- they care about the community of Cargill and it’s also shown through how they handle Felix. Badger Primaries have a fascinating thing known as “dehumanising” they simply do not view that person as a person anymore (usually when a Badger’s close one hurts them they deal with that by cutting them off, while a Snake Primary wouldn’t struggle with that unless they’re part of their inner circle. Think of it like cutting off a limb and cauterising it to stop the bleeding.) Tobin cares about everyone not just their close ones and that’s shown through their actions. They are a Snake Secondary- adaptive and fluid, improvising when they need to. Their playing style was described as “fluid” and that solidified it for me. 

G seems to be an immature Snake Primary- hedonistic, live in the moment, still trying to find their people, while also being burnt- somehow they are hurt and have burned as a result (they take of themself first and foremost) they however are a Bird Secondary- drawing upon prior knowledge and using their tools in situations.

Sam is a Snake Primary whose Important Person is MC and that melts my heart. They care about MC & Robin and their family. They take to Cargill- not because they’re community but because they’re MC’speople- and have a Badger Secondary of hard work and drawing upon the community for help. Amusingly enough Snake Badger’s are known as the Love Interest sorting which explains why so many people love them.

I hope you liked my theories and sorry for rambling haha😅

OK I don't know if you guys know but I LOVE personality theory in all shapes and forms, so literally when I got this ask I showed it to my gf and she immediately snorted and said I met my soulmate. So, thank you for that.

Long post below.

For folks who are wondering what the hell we're on about, here's a link to the sortinghatchats Tumblr page. Just so we get things out of the way: I absolutely detest J.K. Rowling and her TERF bullshit. Don't Stan for that, and that explains the use of lion/badger/snake/bird.

Anyway, agreed with Rayyan being lion primary—I was struggling with figuring out whether or not they seemed more snake primary or lion primary (because I also do see them protecting their crew to the ends of the earth e.g. their family, their cat, MC if they eventually make their way there...) but I do think that it ultimately makes more sense that they're people who wouldn't sacrifice their ideals/what they think is right.

As for Rayyan being lion secondary, that part is irrefutable. Like what you said:

they charge and take things head on

I think your Tobin typing is spot on, so I won't go into too much there except this:

Tobin cares about everyone not just their close ones and that’s shown through their actions.

and

adaptive and fluid, improvising when they need to. Their playing style was described as “fluid”

are absolutely right. I think Badger-snake combinations really explain Tobin's ability to mov through life with the ease and looseness/ quiet confidence and warmth/kindheartedness that Tobin embodies.

For G, I actually read them more as bird primary than bird secondary, mostly because I think ultimately, G's more concerned with coming up with a framework/system through which they understand the world / life / make decisions, but they're constantly adjusting / adding to that system or framework. Contradictions make them want to tinker and probe, and they're most at ease when things make sense.

I could see bird primary with either snake secondary for G (they wear many different skins) or bird secondary.

For Sam, I think you hit the nail on the head with

Sam is a Snake Primary whose Important Person is MC

and

Badger Secondary of hard work and drawing upon the community for help.

Absolutely adorable. I think that combination might be so popular for love-interests because it's probably the most endearing ride-or-die bestie combination to exist.