#doomsday theory

[oswildin]

(Probably incorrect) theory time!

This sequence feels weird to me.

The way Steve is looking at Mjolnir there when he catches it, he lingers on it far longer than is necessary for someone who has already wielded it once before… It looks like he’s thinking: “it worked. I’m wielding Mjolnir.”

And then there’s that little smirk afterwards too… and you know who this mf looks like lowkey?

(Loki is infamous for his one sided smirks/smiles lol).

Classic!Loki said he was able to make an illusion of himself so real, even Thanos himself was fooled. Sylvie has the ability to enchant and take control of other people. Loki had the ability to create duplicates, use shadows and also access people’s memories via touch (Thor Ragnarok)…

Theoretically, our Loki would be deemed ‘worthy’ in the eyes of Odin now to hold Mjolnir after his sacrifice to save the lives of the people on the branches and understanding the weight of what it means to be a ‘King/hero’ now. (I have my own thoughts about Loki being able to wield Mjolnir but that’s beside the point for this theory).

If we are to believe that this shot in the trailer is from Loki being at Steve’s house, then the possibility of Steve and Loki working together in some capacity is there. Perhaps, for some reason that will become clear in the film, Loki disguises himself as Steve to help the others because he may be thinking: “well, who’s gonna believe me? I’m a liar, a trickster, I’ve betrayed them all before…”

Loki is known to have the biggest pet peeve with Steve for his ‘righteousness’, his overly heroic and good nature, so wouldn’t it be ironic that now he’s using that to get the others to trust him? (Whether it be through illusion, projection, enchantment or something). He knows they trust Steve, Steve was one of their leaders. It makes sense why he would choose Steve as a vessel for good.

Plus, we’ve already seen him pretend to be Steve…

The Loki we get in Doomsday isn’t GoS Loki, not yet. These events will take place during S2 EP6 for Loki, where he discovers something much bigger and worse than Kang/He Who Remains is coming… The incursions & Doom. But GoS Loki still exists and is sat in the tree of the multiverse, because Loki still intends to timeslip back to the TVA before the loom implodes to save the branches. Loki knows his fate, he knows what he must do… He knows…

Loki brought the Avengers together once before as the villain, now… He’s bringing them together once again as…

Avenger Prime. (Or ‘The Beyonder’ role for the MCU). In the comics, he wears a mask and unmasks to reveal his identity as Loki before helping the Avengers fight Doom… What if Steve is his mask?

Secret Wars is when we will get GoS Loki (with or without his powers).

(Note: this is just a wild theory that I’ve been thinking about since the trailer dropped lol, it’s unlikely to be true, but I think it would be pretty cool personally. 🤷‍♀️ Yes, I’m a Loki stan, yes I want my man to be very important to the film, duh lol. Also I still think STEVE himself is actually present/involved, Marvel wouldn’t take that away from the fans I fear lol).

EDIT: Also… WHAT IS SHINING ON STEVE IN THAT SHOT WITH THOR?! THE SUN! THE SUN! THE SUN!

[emrambling]

Reddit is cooking and they summed it up perfectly what I have in mind for Boblena and Sentry in the future and especially in Doomsday!

[mimir-anoshe]

"Why do we fall?"

SPOILERS for Thunderbolts* and Theorising for Doomsday. If you don't want either don't read. Contains discussion on suicidal themes TW.

So guys what if... And it's a big IF 'cause ducking hell there's so many characters in this damn Doomsday movie, but GOD would it be poetically beautiful storytelling...

I think, in Doomsday at some point Yelena is going to fall to her death.

Yikes, right?

Either trying to stop something and accidentally getting thrown off a cliff/building/space ship or more likely... in some sacrificial play. Just like Nat, because what are their stories if not poetically entangled tragedies? The rise and fall of mythical heroes with human hearts and broken souls, like two ships passing in the night. They miss each other, separated paragraphs on a page, but the rhyme remains the same. One epic poem. The same story, though I'm hoping Yelena's has a different ending.

And it's going to play into the crux of Bobs story in Doomsday, or atleast the "False Victory" in his heroes journey and Yelena's symbolic death and rebirth (or very literal), which will lead into Secret Wars.

Why do I think this other than the character angst of it all? Well...

Theory?? A poetic wish?

(Fanfiction? A hope... somebody please write this, I would but I don't have a lot of time. This fandom already feeds me so well).

Yelena is as stubborn as Nat, if not more. Whatever reason - I think it has to do with the anchor being of 616 but that's a different theory for another time - she believes she has to do it alone. She has to jump. She has to fall. Because at that point everyone else has failed. Nobody else is coming to save the day. Its on her, or at least she thinks it is. This is the last shot, and she doesn't have super strength or speed or the ability to fly. But she has this. She can do this. She can give this.

She has to be the hero, just like her sister. Choose the fall so everyone else can rise back up and win the day. Even if she loses. Even if it means her life is the cost.

That's what a goalie does right? Falls in order to stop the team from losing. Leaps. Makes the sacrifice. When everyone else fails, they're the one everyone falls back onto. Either they hold that line, or all is lost... Dooms day. And in her mind, what's her life compared to that of the multiverse. What's her life compared to the lives of her new family?

Nat did it, made the ultimate sacrifice. Scored the goal, or stopped one from going in. Not only to save everyone, but especially to save her found family. The people she loves. And heartbreakingly, to save Yelena.

Yelena is painfully aware of that, and Nat never gave her the option to do the same in return. I do wonder if a part of Yelena was angry or bitter at that. Grief can feel like that, especially when it comes to suicide. Like the person made their choice, but in doing so, took others choices away. Even if that's illogical, and unfair, even if thaty person saved the Universe, those feelings are still real.

Part of Thunderbolts* themes - if subtle - is Yelena living in the shadow of her sister's sacrifice. The legend of her heroism. Like Bob lives in the shadow of his own Void and his fear of unleashing it again. A big theme, it seems, going into Doomsday.

She's trying to follow in her footsteps. Trying to do better. Be the hero. To fill that emptiness with purpose, the same as her sister. Bob is afraid of being a hero because of the Void, Yelena is afraid of not being any kind of hero at all. Because of Natasha.

In Thunderbolts* she falls off that building into a "void" at the beginning of the movie, foreshadowing her stepping into the actual Void near the end.

Foreshadow is a very ironic verb in this case for both of them.

She stepped forward, knowing that there was a very real chance she was never coming back. It was actually incredibly reckless, with no regard for her own safety. It was not unreasonable to say she could've died right there. Even Bucky calls it out in the text "What if she's dead?"

She bets it all based off of one small moment earlier where Bob saw her past in the void and Yelena experienced a shame room for the first time... (I could talk for days about her void room being THE ONLY ONE WHERE BOB IS PHYSICALLY PRESENT but I'll save it for another midnight meta fest). But she does it, because she wanted to save him, to bring him home, in the way she wanted to bring Natasha home but never could.

Those scenes do several things for the story and work on a few different levels in terms of symbolism, character and theme.

It harkens back to her sacrificing herself in Black Widow to kill Dreykov, exploding and falling to what she thinks is her death. Both that and her falling in Thunderbolts* were meant to be visual and thematic parallels to Nat sacrificing herself in Endgame by committing suicide. Falling to her death. Nat gets to save Yelena in Black Widow, but Yelena didn't get to save Nat in Endgame. Like Clint said, she was better, and so she got to make the choice. Clint couldn't save her from her own choice, and neither could Yelena. And they both have to find a way to live with that.

Its also an overarching visual metaphor for the mental health themes that are so important in this movie. Themes of loneliness, depression and suicide. Themes that apply to every character in the movie, but in terms of the movies thematic heart, are specifically a binary between Bob and Yelena. Those feelings of emptiness, of loneliness. Of a Void.

Yelena: "What is even the point of all this?"

Bob: "Then I remember that nothing matters..."

Both of their arcs are connected to themes of suicide, or suicidal tendencies, and finding a reason to live. To keep going, even if its for each other. Everything about Yelena's mission at the start of the movie is akin to a passive non-verbal suicidal ideation, not actively trying to kill herself but also not being careful or respectful of her own life. Same as Bob in the vault, they parallel each other in those ways. It's the "Meh. Guess I'll just bumble on but if I die, no big deal" mentality. It breaks my heart.

Though, unlike Bob who has the toxic Valentina whispering in his ear, spurring on his later manic episode (Bipolar represent). Instead, Yelena has Alexei to help her see that in the darkness, there is a light. It doesn't drive out the darkness, but it makes it lighter. Warmer. Brighter. If the Void in all of us is a dark mirror that reflects our own negative views of ourselves, our perceived mistakes, guilt, regrets, shame, then Alexei's line about "you need other people to see the good" is about the loved ones in our life being mirrors of light. Where we see the flaws in ourselves, the reason we need each other is because we can act as mirrors that reflect the good in others.

Its like what Natasha said about the avengers in Endgame.

"They made me better."

Other people can see the best versions of ourselves, and when we see it through them, it allows us to see ourselves in a more eclectic, realistic and positive way that can help us escape the illogical doubt and shame of our void.

And because Yelena sees that in herself through her Dad, and from her sister who was a light in her life - a symbol of hope and redemption - she can then be that mirror for Bob. Cue Yelena and Bob seeing each other/communicating through a mirror, because they are both deuteragonists and foils for one another. The Void is Bobs dark mirror. Yelena is Bobs mirror of light. Same in the way that Yelena has her own darkness, and Bob becomes a beacon of goodness and light in her world that she strives to protect.

Yes there's the nihilism of her walking into that void, a version in her head that her suffering, her loneliness, her "pointless" existence can end. There might even be a relief in that for her. But it's overshadowed by a hope. A hope that she can reach through that despair, those feelings of unworthiness, and save somebody. To be the sunrise to somebody else's endless night. Because she couldn't be there to save Nat, she was going to be damned sure she leaped over that edge and fell into that Void to catch Bob. And in doing so, save a part of herself she thought had died with Natasha.

Which brings me back to Doomsday.

Yelena is the Avengers "Goalie." She was in Thunderbolts* and that theme will continue into Doomsday, I'm sure of it. The one who brings everyone together, who lights up the room.

"I want to be the one everyone can rely on if they make a mistake."

-Alexei quoting 5 year old Yelena.

Its such a beautiful message for a character, and I thought I loved Yelena before this movie... Boy do I love her now. Yelena is the one everyone can rely on, who will catch everyone when they fall down. When they make a mistake. From Sam Wilson, to Carol Danvers, to the Reed Richards... To John, to Alexei, to Ava, to Bucky... to Bob. No matter what it costs her. But if she's catching everyone when they fall, who's going to catch her?

When Bob falls in this movie into the lifts "void" its Yelena who catches him. Saves him. When Bob metaphorically "falls down" and the Void begins to consume the light, she catches him. Holds him. Shows him he's not alone. And I have a feeling in those 14 months when he's had moments of darkness, when the entire worlds been against him because of the potential threat the void poses including Sam Wilsons Avengers, she's been his biggest supporter, biggest defender alongside the other Thunderbolts* (or New Avengerz lmao), and the one who catches him when he falls down. The one he relies on.

So in Doomsday, after he spends most of the movie suppressing his powers as the Sentry because of his fear of the Void, of hurting people... There will be a moment where Yelena makes a choice. Where because of that choice, she falls. And Bob as he is, hiding from his powers, can only watch as she falls into another Void. To her death. So Bob comes to the height of his arc, and has to make a choice too.

Let the girl he loves fall and save the world from the potential threat of the void and Doom using that power. Or rise above his fear, and catch her. Be a hero, even if it means potentially dooming the world and worlds beyond.

I believe this is the moment in the movie where Bob finally stops stalling and acts, whether through choice or instinct (though I hope he makes an active choice to save her). It would bring the symbolism of both Yelen and Bob falling into the void full circle, also resolving the tragedy of Clint being forced to drop Natasha and Yelena having to live with her sisters choices. This time Black Widow doesn't have to die to save everyone by falling to her death. This time, someones there to catch her, with Bob rising above his own darkness to do it.

Now it could go one of two ways, either Bob manages to catch her before she hits the ground and dies which is what I think will happen. There's also a version in my head where she falls and dies, Bob comes onto the scene or watches it happen without being able to help, and then turns into the Sentry to heal her/resurrect her. Which I believe, the more power he uses the more likely the Void is to take over, and healing/resurrection is the fastest way for that to happen. So instead of physically catching her, he metaphorically catches her falling into death, and in doing so, becomes lost in the Void (keep wanting to type Void Sauce lmao; lost in the void sauce) afterwards to the point that not even Yelena can pull him back out this time. Enter Doom and whatever bullshit he has up his sleeve to use the void and or manipulate that power/Bob, or even completely strip Bob of his powers altogether.

The gist of it is, as foreshadowed in the Thunderbolts* movie...

Yelena will fall, and Bob will catch her. Finishing off the poem of Natasha and Yelena's story not with a tragic cut off, but hope, allowing Yelena to live on and do the things Natasha never got to. The life that Natasha gave her when she was snapped back. And in the same breath Bob will finally truly accept his power and responsibility as the Sentry, overcoming his fear to save the girl who saved him.

All before it comes crashing down. Yelena may be the catalyst that saves the Avengers and also Dooms them. Enter... The madness that is my mind making up theories for secret wars...

God what has Thunderbolts*, Bob and Yelena done to me? I haven't written meta like this in yonks, or been this excited about Marvel in a long time, outside of the comics at least. I'm expecting to be disappointed, hell all of my above theories could be completely off mark, they just make sense to me because of their character arcs and what I would consider a well-written story. Amazing foreshadowing if that is the case. But honestly, the fact they gave us this gem? I will love this movie and the fandom creativity that comes out of it forever, even if Doomsday once again drags me back into my apathetic marvel era.

Here's to hoping.

"Why do we fall Bruce? So we can learn to pick ourselves up."

-Thomas Wayne, the Dark Knight.

[eileen-crys]

Now that Stephen Strange AND Reed Richards will be together in the MCU, I feel we're going towards the memory-erasing "ending" for Sentry, more than just "Doom will kill him" (lol no way this works)

Technically speaking, Sentry cannot die (we've already seen him "die" twice in one movie lol) and one of his core storylines in the comics is that he asked Strange and Reed to erase him from everyone's memory (including his own) to protect the world from both The Sentry and The Void. He eventually comes back a couple of times and this whole memory erasing thing happens at least twice, but in the MCU I think once would be enough. I can really see MCU!Bob asking them to "free" the world from The Sentry/The Void after causing an absurd amount of damage (both good and bad) because he can't control his power. Lewis Pullman even mentioned this in an interview.

Also, we've already seen Strange performing a multiverse-wide memory-loss spell on Spiderman, but I think Reed's help will be necessary due the out-of-scale amount of power Bob has, and due to the fact that they'll basically have to erase an entire man's (and his alter-egos') existence from the multiverse, not just his name.

My bet is that Doom will try to control Sentry (and the Void) for his own gain at some point, and when Bob comes out of Doom's reach he'll ask Strange and Reed to just make him disappear. It's awfully tragic but it'd be comic-accurate, this man is designed not to be happy, like, ever (😭)

[trenchcoathunnybee08]

I was gonna make this bet after the first episodes of X-Men ‘97 game out but after ep4 Im dropping it because I’m sure it’s gonna happen.

With all the timeline stuff that’s happening this session and how massive of a threat as Apocalypse is Im calling it now that the session is going to end in some way that plays right into Doomsday. Like think about it. Ep 4 gave so much more evidence. Kang made an appearance, the Celestial told Nuor that Apocalypse is the end and the beginning of all things, that he will bring about a new age. The X-Men literally were destined to bring Nuor to the ship and he become Apocalypse.

My money is on them failing to stop Apocalypse and they are forced to somehow change their timeline so that he never comes to be. I don’t know. Point is whatever they do it causes such a large ripple in the timeline that is leads to an incursion and collapse of their timeline. We’re not seeing the Fox X-Men in the Doomsday trailers but the ‘97 X-Men, or at least versions of them.

[staying-elive]

Crazy theory time

I was just strolling around Box Office Mojo looking at the release calendar for 2026 and noticed this... curiosity. (Screenshots under the cut).

There really isn't any big releases in April leading into American summer, okay. There's Devil Wears Prada 2 opening the summer, which will be a big hit probably but it's not a blockbuster.

Then Mandolorian end of May, okay. But then nothing of note in June. Then a backloaded July.

But i noticed this "Untitled Disney" title July 10. Same day as Moana so it could be a double up that hasn't been deleted yet, or it could be another minor project who's date hasn't been fixed or announced (if so, it'd likely be announed at CinemaCon in April for theatre owners).

Or... and stick with me, maybe Disney is trying to pull a fast one and they'll surprise everyone with:

Doomsday Part 1 in July and Doomsday Part 2 in December! 🤣😂

Honestly, I kind of shudder at the thought, because I don't want more RDJ or Evans on my screen, but considering they were shooting for so long, with such a huge cast of various teams/universes, AND their original release was going to be summer 2026... am I crazy? Maybe.

That would keep Part 1 still positioned before Spider-Man BND and would make sense why Marvel is releasing teasers in December. For a film supposedly a year away!

With that theory, I'd say that Steve wouldn't even really appear until the end, after baiting people with him. THEN you have the Endgame rerelease in September with the new post credit (ugh), THEN Doomsday Part 2 in December.

Considering the films were mostly shot at the London studios, I don't think there was much hint that Chris Evans was on set or in the UK at all. So...maybe not in it that much. (God i hope not)

Anyway. It's all probably just an error and i'm just talking crazy in the hope that Sam could actually get some decent screentime with 2 films in one year lol.

We'll know for sure by the latest after CinemaCon in April next year. BUT four teaser trailers? Maybe the fourth one will reveal the secret?

[zephyronthewind]

Being online tonight:

[freshthoughts2020]

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