#drowned god

[thewatcher0nthewall]

What is dead may never die

[rimonoroni2]

i have to say george rr martin went off when he made cardiopulmonary resuscitation into a religious practice in asoiaf.

[greyeisacreativecolor]

Theon Greyjoy, turncloak, prince of fools, kinslayer, drowned in Reek and revived to save Jeyne Poole

Theon is a testament to Martin's ability to make characters sympathetic, even after they commit horrible atrocities. Much like Cersei, so much of what Theon does is done out of desperation. His life is tainted with fear. No matter how many honors Ned gives Theon, no matter how much training, money, and education he's given, the system he was born into will never let him forger that Ice hangs over his head.

And then Ned Stark dies, and the Starks split from the Seven Kingdoms. He finally has a chance to have a real relationship with Robb. And for a moment it's true, Robb trusts him to broker an alliance with Balon Greyjoy. And Theon has no desire to betray Robb, he goes to Pyke to ask his father to join himself to the Northern succession. It isn't until Balon tells him that he plans on taking the North for himself that Theon even considers betraying Robb. And the final nail in the coffin is that Balon has all but officially passed him over for Asha.

From this point on, everything Theon does is to prove himself worthy to his father. Throwing away the life he had before for the chance at the life he "should" have had. It didn't take much for Ramsay to ruin Theon.

But Ramsay put in the work anyway. Theon was completely broken down until he seemed to truly believe he had never been Theon at all. If Roose hadn't needed him to hand off Jeyne Poole, and the free folk women hadn't harassed him so constantly, it's unlikely he would've ever come back.

[jedimaesteryoda]

Thinking about Melisandre, I can't get over how similar she is to another character in the series: Aeron Damphair.

I was weak and full of sin, and scorn was more than I deserved. Better to be scorned by Balon the Brave than beloved of Euron Crow's Eye. -AFFC, The Prophet

They are both priests in zealous dualistic faiths that engage in human sacrifice, one revering fire and the other water. They are focused on trying to revive the past with Aeron trying to bring the Old Way of pre-Aegon's Conquest while Melisandre is trying to mold Stannis into a figure of the past based on handed down stories.

Their zealotry even papers some childhood trauma beneath it including sexual abuse with Aeron having been sexually abused by Euron and his buried guilt over Urri's death and Melisandre's separation from her mother at a slave auction and made into a temple prostitute at the Red Temple. They chose to deal with their trauma by becoming proponents of the systems that hurt them.

It's why I don't see Melisandre ever joining Daenerys given like Aeron, her mission is pretty personal. Aeron's faith is trying to overcome his feelings of shame and weakness over having been Euron's SA victim and his wild ways. He called the kingsmoot and backed his candidate so he could "beat" Euron for once, and get his revenge for Euron's abuse.

"Melony," she heard a woman cry. A man's voice called, "Lot Seven." She was weeping, and her tears were flame. And still she drank it in. -ADWD, Melisandre

Melisandre herself having been made into a temple prostitute at the bottom of the Red Temple hierarchy and likely the most despised profession, in no small part due to her gender. She may have seen things in flames only to be dismissed. She is trying to overcome her feelings of insignificance and inferiority by backing Stannis, and proving to them and herself her value. She assists Azor Ahai and converts him to the red faith. She is not just not insignificant, she is essential in the War for Dawn to save the world.

They end up backing their respective candidates for King of the Iron Isles and Azor Ahai, both in the form of uncharismatic, bitter men living in the shadows of their older brothers.

Of course, what neither are willing to admit is that their faiths never brought them any happiness nor what they were looking for, but if anything are the source of their trauma. Urri's injury was a result of the finger dance, a popular game for practitioners of the Old Way. Euron was able to abuse Aeron because the Old Way states that the weak are to be prey for the strong and the strong to use them as they see fit. Melisandre was bought and made into a temple prostitute because the Red Faith's doctrine is sacrificing others, including the innocent, for the purported greater good.

He had run before the Crow's Eye as if he were still the weak thing he had been -AFFC, The Drowned Man

“Aeron, my good and faithful servant, you must tell the Ironborn that the Crow’s Eye is no true king, that the Seastone Chair by rights belongs to … to … to …” Not Victarion. Victarion had offered himself to the captains and kings but they had spurned him. Not Asha. In his heart, Aeron had always loved Asha best of all his brother Balon’s children. -TWOW, The Forsaken

Aeron's faith does not make him stronger as he is still the same weak man he's always been, and when wishing to speak with the Drowned God, can only hear his own voice inside his head. His faith like his strength is hollow. He thinks the Drowned God will make his candidate at the kingsmoot win, but Euron is chosen instead. Melisandre is backing the wrong candidate for Azor Ahai, and still using sex as a tool. She is so stuck in her convictions she cannot see what is right in front of her when she keeps seeing Jon Snow when asking for "a glimpse of Azor Ahai." Or alternatively, she does not hear of the news in the east of dragons.

Their plans also are doomed to fail.

The plan to unseat Euron doesn't end up working out for Aeron. He tries to defeat Euron by backing his own candidate in the form of Vicatrion. He failed to note that Victarion is intellectually the weakest link in the family, and should have remembered from the past pranks that Euron (and Aeron) was always able to pull one on him. Victarion could not match Euron's charisma and wit.

When Euron wins the kingsmoot, Aeron doubles down in deep denial in dismissing the kingsmoot's decision as the work of "wizards and foul sorcerers on that red ship of his. They sent some spell among us, so we could not hear the sea." He doesn't want to confront the ugly truth that he could not defeat Euron using the Old Way he devoted his life too since Euron is the Old Way dream personified. He offered an impossible dream that appealed to the Ironborn with the promises of great prizes to the point that even Aeron is almost taken away for a moment. His response is a doomed attempt to rally a popular uprising against him. He just gets captured and tortured by Euron, and he calls for aid from the Drowned God to no avail.

we all deceive ourselves, when we want to believe. Melisandre most of all, I think. The sword is wrong, she has to know that . . . light without heat . . . an empty glamor . . . the sword is wrong, and the false light can only lead us deeper into darkness, Sam. -AFFC, Samwell IV

Melisandre can actually hear a voice, and see things in her flames, but she is constantly trying to force things to make her candidate fit the prophecy. She makes a Lightbringer that glows, but it does not create heat like the real one, tries to sacrifice children to fit a prophecy that she herself does not fully understand even if she does not realize it. She is not creating light, but shadows on the wall, a distraction from the real light. If she hears of Daenerys, the red temple's candidate, she would respond the same way Aeron did when Euron won the kingsmoot and double down. It may likely result in the death of her candidate for Azor Ahai in battle against the Red Temple's candidate.

In their blind devotion, they both end up as false prophets, because they refuse to see outside the respective boxes they grew up in. Aeron won't see outside of the Old Way, because outside of it is weak greenlander territory. It would mean his hero Balon was a terrible lord who brought only disaster to the Iron Isles and the Old Way is not just dead but an awful system that hurts the Ironborn and his house more than it helps with the abuse and their futile quests for crowns.

For Melisandre, it would mean seeing outside her faith which she believes is the territory of the Great Other, and she picked the wrong candidate for Azor Ahai. It turns out she did not prove the Temple of the Lord of Light wrong, but she was wrong the whole time and did nothing to aid Azor Ahai or the War for Dawn. Going by her binary thinking, if the Temple of the Lord of Light proves to be right in their candidate or she is wrong in her candidate, that means she was unwittingly serving the Great Other the whole time.

Victarion is like to die in Essos, Euron in Oldtown and Asha in the North. The remaining Greyjoy heir Theon is weakened and castrated, meaning the Ironborn will never follow him. Melisandre may likely outlive Stannis, seeing him lose his bid for the crown like Victarion did. With House Greyjoy gone, the Iron Isles may do as when House Hoare died and start fighting each other for supremacy. An invasion from the outside, possibly Danaerys and Tyrion, might also ensue. As for up North, the Wall falls and without a clear cut Azor Ahai, that means nothing can stop the Others from invading. The Northmen may continue to fight Daenerys under the banner of King-in-the-North Rickon Stark.

Their causes look lost by that point, their situations having gone FUBAR and when that happens, the choices are either to walk away and start questioning the ideologies they spent their whole lives following or double-down. My guess is double-down as in the fits of desperation and delusion, they seek answers and all they can do is look inwards.

The Storm God drowned Nagga's fire after the Grey King's death, the chairs and tapestries had been stolen, the roof and walls had rotted away. Even the Grey King's great throne of fangs had been swallowed by the sea. Only Nagga's bones endured to remind the ironborn of all the wonder that had been. -AFFC, The Drowned Man

Aeron may likely go the way of Lodos and declare himself the priest-king of the Iron Isles with the majority of the Drowned Men backing him. My money says Hammer of the Waters is sent to Pyke by Bran and Bloodraven. The servant of the Drowned God dies by drowning like his sacrifices. The manner of their death would be taken as a sign.

As for Melisandre, I think she may double-down and see herself as Azor Ahair Reborn. She may likely be killed by the real Azor Ahai Reborn. Either she is called by dragonflame from Dany's dragons. The other is she may go beyond the Wall to find the Great Other and instead finds the cave of the children of the forest. If Jon is there, he would try to defend his baby brother Bran by any means necessary. She may die with a magic sword (Valyrian steel) through her heart and be the Nissa Nissa she tried to make others serve as. She herself served only to be a sacrifice as she was in life.

Their refusal to see outwards results in the ruin of both their plans and themselves.

[oneinathousand]

A new big 5 hour-long video essay dropped about Drowned God: Conspiracy of the Ages recently, and while I appreciate that it tried to explain the various references and symbolism it makes to a wide variety of subjects, I think trying to look at real history/religion/occultism/conspiracies to explain the game’s story is a fool’s errand because it puts all these ingredients together in such a slapdash fashion it mostly has little resemblance to reality (which the video does acknowledge but still spends a lot of time trying to do anyway). It can explain the game’s choices to a certain extent, but it won’t get you to really understand this game’s bizarro version of everything.

When analyzing it, people keep treating it as either some tome of eldritch knowledge (if they are already inclined to believe these things) or as a crash course in occultism and such (if they are more skeptical) instead of seeing it for what it is, which is a work of fiction. Harry Horse likely believed in at least some of what the game purports, but I don’t think it was nearly as much as people think.

The way I’ve come to my own understanding of the plot and characters is to not ask questions like “What are these characters referencing, and what is the history of it in our world which I will translate one-to-one to DG” I ask “What are these characters in-universe, what do they want, and why?” Because believe it or not, there’s an internal logic to it where characters have connections to each other and they all have certain allegiances and goals, and there’s a pretty straightforward backstory underneath all the mountains of jargon, it can just be hard to figure out because DG was unfinished.

[death-of-cats]

unformed thought but Drowned God worship is simultaneously almost a caricature of Christian conceptions of paganism (worshiping strength instead of Christ’s weakness) but also packaged in a bundle of Christian imagery (baptism, resurrection, asceticism). it’s like GRRM started out with “okay imagine a religion that sucks” and ended up recreating Catholicism 

[lunarleech4478]

Never posted em here but Ive been makin lil pngsona stuff for games I like and I finally had the chance to use this Drowned God one had lying around since October. Wanted to do one based on the Relic Hunter since I think itd look more unique compared to an alien.

Did a 2nd playthrough the other day n ngl I still like it a bit (even got some friends hooked on the story) even despite its flaws. Who knows maybe Ill draw more fanart for it soon

[strangestcase]

getting into drowned god conspiracy of the ages will have you saying shit like “why did they cut out the naked running headless man”