#dyingtunas

[zenosanalytic]

Theorizing Role: Rogue of Mind

dyingtunas said:

Could you please tell us about the Rogue of Mind?

A Rogue of Mind would be “one who Steals, and Steals through, Mind to benefit others”. I like to look at Rogues through the rubric of “Give and Take”, so phrasing what they do that way would make a Rogue of Mind one who “Takes Mind to Give, and Gives Mind through Taking”.

EXPRESSIONS

The first Facet of Mind that jumps out to me when I think of how it could be Stolen, Taken, and Given helpfully is “Mindfulness”. A Rogue of Mind could be really good at taking people’s Minds off of subjects, or taking such subjects off people’s Minds. Such a talent has obvious beneficial uses(helping people let go of obsessions or stressful, annoying crap) and also obvious drawbacks(distracting folks from things they really do need to take care of). This wouldn’t really take the form of “pay attention to MEEEEEEEE” in Rogues, I think(I mean, it COULD if you wanted), even though Attention is a pretty central idea to their Class; it’d more likely be something like shifting their attention off one thing to something else. Another way to think about it would be a talent for “Giving Peace of Mind, through Taking something off the Mind” :]

The Rogue might take this further and apply it to specific Facets of the mental Mind, such as Memory or Behavior. A Rogue of Mind might be that Friend people talk to when they’re sad over a remembered loss or tragedy, or who always seems able to help a Friend with OCD break out of behavior loops they’re stuck in. Or perhaps they could do the same with Pain. Without really realizing what they’re doing, the Rogue of Mind might start off able to, metaphysically, take on the nerve or migraine pain of others, relieving it for a time. As they grow into their Abilities they may become able to block or redirect Pain Sensation all together, becoming something of a “Healer” expression of the Title. And this wouldn’t need to be restricted to the mental either; the Brain is the physical manifestation and seat of Mind, so perhaps Rogues of Mind would be able to “Steal” away injuries to the brain as well.

But Mind’s much more than that. Both of the Mind Players we’ve seen have had(or in Latula’s case at least claimed) Sensory difficulties, and difficulties with Perception(my which I mean both Pyropes are very likely depressives, and this makes it hard for them to see the world as it is). So a Rogue of Mind might support their Team by helping them to be sneaky -“Taking” the Senses of their Foes to “Give” stealth to their Team- or by Stupefying their enemies; “Stealing” their Perception to make countering and outmaneuvering them easier. In a potentially weirder expression of their abilities, they could “Steal through” the Senses and Perception of their Foes; they might be able to snatch information and memories out of the Minds of those they make eye-contact with or even, Medusa-like, “Steal Mobility”(or Life >:]) from those that See, Hear, Smell, ect, them(though I’d say this is more likely for a Thief of Mind). This could also be more mundane; the Rogue of Mind might excel at “Giving” False Perceptions to others so that they can then “Take” what they’re after.

And Mind gets even more abstract than this, moving on to the Facets we see most directly in the Pyropes. Mind touches on Causation, Justice, Right-Order, Artifice, Karma, Dharma, and Fate. And also Dragons, but I won’t touch on that one here :p A Rogue of Mind could “Take on” the Justice of others -either taking up their Causes or taking away the Repercussions of their actions- to protect and aid their Friends. Of course that “help” would be as they see it; Rogues aren’t guaranteed to be right (:T Rogue’s might “Steal” the “Right-Order” that decrees a Friend inhabit a specific social situation, “Giving” them freedom, respect, and greater agency by helping that Friend to be Perceived as higher-caste. In this way, a Rogue of Mind could very easily play “Fairy Godmother” to their Friends :] :] A harsher expression could be a Rogue of Mind who “Gives Justice” by “Taking Mind”; ripping the Personality or Senses out of someone else as righteous punishment or, more in-keeping with Roguish “passive” subtlety, setting in motion a chain of events that leads to such an outcome seemingly of its own accord.

ARC

A Rogue of Mind would grow up subtly and pervasively influenced by Mind. It wouldn’t be something that dominates or overshadows their life; rather it would “color” their life in thousands of low-level ways. They would struggle with Attention, and not necessarily a lack of it, in ways touched on by Aspect[1]. Perhaps they feel people don’t “Mind” them enough, or are too solicitous of them to the point of trampling their agency, or they may struggle with the social place re: their Friends the Order of their society places them in. The Rogue would need to look for a balance of Mind in their life and in their actions. In the beginning they would often upset this balance[2] seeking the things they want(like Roxy’s “Voiding” of Jane’s computer, or her drinking), and the Rogue of Mind would learn about their Title, without really realizing it, through negotiating these imbalances they cause. They would need to learn judgement -how their choices and actions can impact themselves and others, what they feel they owe to others and what they feel they owe to themselves- and gain the confidence to enact it openly rather than hide out-of-sight.

[1]For Roxy and Nepeta this was an issue of not getting attention(Roxy felt she didn’t get enough; Nepeta was often misunderstood and underestimated, and didn’t get the sort of “Hearty” attention she desired from the people she wanted it from). Rufioh struggles with too much of one  attention(sexual/romantic interest) from others, and too little of another; with how their selfish focus on the romantic/sexual fulfillment they want form him, leads others to ignore and “ride roughshod” over his wants, his needs, his anxieties, and just him in general.

[2]Though we never really see Nepeta doing that, so I think it’s possible for Heroes of any Title to start off pretty far along their Arc already. Then again, this appurance of stability might just be because we don’t really see much of Nepeta :T

[classesandaspects]

@dyingtunas WHAT YOU GOT AGAINST SYLPHS HUH

classpect evaluation under the cut

Your hobbies are very artistic, creative, and… expansive? I don’t think that’s a word in this sense, but your hobbies allow you to relax, escape, and stretch your mind and abilities.

You like helping your friends, so you’re definitely in a supporting role. Even more so that you want to inspire future generations without receiving any rewards or recognition in return. (That rules Light out.)

I’m very interested by the skills you want to develop; these are very Breath (freedom) or Mind (choices) related skills. The other character we see employing misdirection is John Egbert the Heir of Breath. But deceit also falls under the Mind aspect.

I see a theme of emotional and informational connections through your responses. Emotional distance, lack of confidence in speech, and being an open book, but also talking a lot, fixing misinformation, inspiring others, and making sure everyone else is fine. You seem to focus on giving or fixing connections while lacking them yourself. Can you say ROOOGUE (or Page or Mage, I guess. Why are the classes so similar?).

The Page, I think, is a class that revolves around aspect-based potential. Both Tavros and Jake are accidentally the source of huge drama in their groups, just because of the way their teammates perceive of their aspect in them. Tavros certainly did not mean for his unusual FLARPing style to annoy Vriska, but her launching him off a cliff set off the whole [S] Make Her Pay chain that resulted in Aradia’s death, Terezi’s blindness, Vriska’s missing arm and eye, Vriska’s eventual god tier (when Aradiabot beat her up in revenge), Vriska hating Tavros again when he failed to kill her, resulting in her killing Tavros during Murderstuck, which led Terezi to kill Vriska. Jake and Horuss’s drama is much smaller in comparison but both brought their own sessions to a near standstill.

But you don’t have that much drama in your life (hopefully) so let’s move on.

The Mage is intuitively apeshit bananas at his aspect, unlike the Seer, who has to learn her aspect before she can Know it.  I tend to think of them sort of as a prophet, where they’re gifted with incredible power but have to use that power to serve their aspect and bring it forward.  Eventually the Mage is rewarded/punished with the loss of their aspect, but they are able to accept and adapt to their loss and get off far better than perhaps someone else in the same situation.  (Meulin is unique among all the Homestuck characters’ drama-filled love lives by continuing to maintain a very strong friendship with her ex-matesprit.  What other teenager could say the same?)  Based on your responses, I think your relationship with your aspect doesn’t have quite the same pattern as a Mage’s does - yours seems much less turbulent with not having a very good grip on your aspect at first and then steadily improving over time.

This leaves me with Rogue of Breath or Rogue of Mind as your most likely titles. Information, deceit, truth, and decisions all fall underneath the Mind aspect, while freedom, movement, inspiration, and self-independence fall under Breath.

I’m really feeling Rogue of Breath for you. Running fast is basically reality’s version of flying, right?  Stealing the air in front of you by pushing yourself into that space?  And incapacitating people is literally taking away their freedom of movement. You steal the separation and miscommunication between people to provide understanding, and as a fully developed Rogue of Breath, you’ll give inspiration to others and help push them through a tough day.  

And Breath players are overall... not great at communicating, basically.  Who else but a Breath player would fail to have 5 computers on them at all times, like a sensible person? 

Alternately, the Rogue of Mind would steal decisions, choices, and logic. But you seem to be pretty on top of that definition cuz i am a goddamn stalker i’m so sorry.

The Rogue of Mind can take ideas and whatnot for the good of others

My only concern about Rogue of Mind is that you give out truth or choices but you don’t really steal them, afaik.  I know the idea of the Rogue “providing” is popular, but I think a Rogue needs to steal their aspect as well in order to be a Rogue (otherwise they’re just the passive creation class, whichever that happens to be in your personal class definition system).

So um.  Yeah!  You seem to have your own classpect down pretty closely already, which is perfectly reasonable for someone who actually co-runs a classpect blog!  But hey I had help on finding my title too.  It’s always nice to get some external assistance in figuring these things out.

(The last person I said was definitely a Breath player - Seer of Breath specifically - ended up identifying as a Rogue of Mind, though, so here’s a grain of salt to take with you.)

[catchaloststar]

Possible Fraymotifs?

Mental Discord - solo I, status debuff on all sentient enemy targets in AOE. [Heavily inspired by and/or identical to Mind solo I on Overseer Project]

Penseroso Flow - solo II, temporary buff (increased crit range and damage? general stat boost?) to self and all allied targets in AOE. Also cleanse all harmful status effects from self and allies in AOE, and negate for duration of buff.

* Discord and Flow require user to be aware of each other: line of sight, hearing range, etc.

??? Cadenza - solo III, status debuff to sentient targets in AOE and buff to self, lasts for duration of fraymotif. Move at normal speed and attack a sentient target. Each turn, must successfully hit target, or move and successfully hit the next target. Missing an attack (or running out of enemies to attack) ends Cadenza at the end of the turn.  (If two enemies are within AOE but farther than one turn’s movement distance from each other, then both get the debuff but you can only attack one before Cadenza ends - unless you have a speed boost, ranged weapon, etc.)  That sounds more like a Time move, will rewrite.

—- pair fraymotifs —–

Col Pugno e Legno - “with fist and wood” (referring to fistkind and staffkind respectively). Musically, “col legno” instructs string instrumentalist to play with wood of bow instead of hair, and “col pugno” for pianist to bang piano keys with fist.

Philosopher’s Chorale - The official Hope/Mind fraymotif on the Overseer Project is Philospher’s Concerto; a chorale is a hymn, with religious connotations. Alternately, Metaphysican’s Chorale. <– dumb name</p>

Mind/Heart?

Mind/Void?

white noise

[classes-and-aspects-overseer]

coruscationCaught [CC] opened blog CLASSES-AND-ASPECTS-OVERSEER.

Hey, everyone… it’s me, Raye!

Looks like a sideblog may be our best medium of communication right now, on account of requiring no external mobile-unfriendly programs to participate.  We may need to find some kind of chat for direct communication, like Skype, Pesterchum, msparp, idk.  But for now, everyone making posts on this blog should be sufficient.

Which means I need to add everyone as members, which unfortunately appears to mean I need everyone’s email address, as that’s the only way to add new members?  So please message this blog with an email address and I will do so.  If that isn’t okay for any reason, please say so and we’ll find some other means of communication instead.

Anyway, on to business.

I’ve already asked some of you, but I’d like to know everyone’s sprite power and grist type, as those have session-wide effects.  Sprite power affects the power levels of enemies, and a high-powered sprite is basically like prototyping a First Guardian.  Grist type determines what kinds of grist will be available in the session by travelling to each players’ land.

Current sprite powers: 3, 4, and 60 (two kernelsprites are still unprototyped)

Current grist types: Amber, Barren, Calcite, Cold, and Liquid

A quick note on alchemy - most item combinations, unfortunately, do not exist in game yet, because obviously there are an infinite number of items that can be added.  You can still alchemize whatever items you want, but you’ll have to be creative.  Use the quick item creator to by entering the two codes you want to use and the operation (either && or ||), and submit whatever stats you think would be appropriate for the new item.  This item will be immediately available for alchemization within our session.  It doesn’t work for consumable items or items with effects, but most basic items should be fine.  EDIT: quick item creator appears to be bugged.  Godsdamn T_T

What else… oh, yes, if you go to the Session Mates page in the sidebar, you’ll find an incomplete table of our characters.  I would like to add a picture of each character next to their name.  If you don’t have a picture already, I would like to make a sprite for you!  Pick out an outfit, hair, and facial features from this guy’s sprite sheets and I’ll put it together for you.  Just indicate which ones you want and I’ll pull them from my own saved copies of the sprite sheets.

I also intend for each character on that page to link to their own page with more info.  Currently the picture of Raye is linked to my personal, but I’ll move that info to this blog eventually.

Um, if I missed anything about the blog or the session, let me know!

[youbroke--me]

Um... Hi! I'm sorry if I ain't helpin at all, being a random passerby and whatnot, but maybe you should just sit one day and read the bible. We probably don't have the same veiw about religion or anything like that, but for me, it sparked some hope in my life, and maybe it will for you too? ^_^ I hope so.

I read it awhile back at 8th grade I think, but I haven’t believed in any religion since my freshman year. (I’m now about to be a senior).

But I’m glad it worked for you! 

[classpect-explained]

Please explain Seer of Blood?

Of course!

Seer is a vision aspect. they see into the future and the outcomes of their aspect, to assist themselves in some way. (my personal headcanon, due to Terezi’s struggle to see into the future just for John’s benefit, but being able to do it when it was to benefit herself in some way, even if it was the enjoyment of messing with him.)

Blood is bonds. relationships, friendships, the like. it is the antithesis aspect of breath, which is typically freedom.

A Seer of Blood would be able to look into the future of relationships, determine the possible outcomes of them, and use that to benefit themselves. know if their friendship with the session’s Vriska-like player would work out or not, if they’ll be able to convince someone to do something or not, perhaps even down to forseeing interactions in the future between anyone. a spy, without ever being near their targets.

[andorknuckles]

Not exactly what I was asking, but thank you! It helped! My question was actually what is their purpose besides to scratch if all is lost.

Oh, well the answer to that is that the scratch is just something that has its activating device located on the Time player’s planet, and activating the Scratch isn’t necessarily something the Time player does themselves.

The role of a Time Player seems to vary, but generally they hold the role of keeping the game to an alpha timeline. Aradia kept a stable timeline specifically by abusing the multitude of non-alpha timelines to her advantage. Dave, on the other hand, had to follow the actions pre-ordained by the alpha, and time had as much control over him as he had over it.

Lord English, though, he gets to dictate what is or isn’t Alpha, sort-of.  It would seem any actions he takes are the only actions he could have taken, without the potential of offshoots. This may be because of how Juju’d up his soul is, or just a natural element of being a Lord.

Or, sticking with my ‘Time is an External Element’ theory, Juju’ing up is just predestined manifestation, explicitly linked to his title.

[andorknuckles]

How important is a time player outside of the scratch?

I’m not really sure why I’m getting this question? Maybe it has something to do with that analysis of Time Players I did some time ago????Anyway, one thing I’ve noticed is that there’s another way of classifying the aspects that hasn’t really been discussed in-canon, but the evidence is all there. Not only can classes be passive or active, but aspects can be internal and external.

What do I mean by that? I mean certain aspects seem to come to the player, while other aspects come from the player.

Eg. In all Time players shown so far, the ability to manipulate time has come from some sort of item (records, music boxes, sarcophagus), and while Aradia did eventually show the ability to locally stop time, a lack of information about the event makes it hard to pin down whether that’s due to this theory being a bit inaccurate (it might be the classes that fall under these categories), or just being that the God Tier itself counts as an external factor.

Regardless, John and Rose both awoke powers inside themselves, while Dave and Jade obtained their powers through predestine manifestation.

So, moving onto the actual question at hand...

I'll assume your question is basically: What does a Time player do after the scratch resets the game?

Well, the answer to that is that they stop existing. Time is erased and the lives they lead are undone.

If the player does find some way to escape the Scratch’s power, then for the most part, they’re not important at all. With no game, they have no role or purpose. They’re effectively off-the-rails. Though their ability to navigate the void between sessions would be much greater than average.

It’s entirely possible that the infinite wisdom of Skaia, and the general tendency of Paradox Space to (ironically) lean towards a state of stability, that a player lost in the void would eventually find another session and find a role there, chances are these events are few and far between.

One particular session might find itself being usurped by a lost Thief of Time, trying to win back another chance to lord over a universe of their creation, though this wouldn’t be unique to a Time player.

Though, the session I’m writing about has an item called the Aurora Multitap, which would be a useful thing for any lost player to find.