okay, fine, I'll make a troll ecto-biology/genetics lore post
there's too many misinterpretations I've been seeing, ESPECIALLY as of late, and it's really frustrating always a "erm, check the lore, not your fanon" fan talking the loudest (they ALWAYS do this and are ALWAYS blatantly wrong/USE fanon)
this shit is ridiculous so everything's going under the cut
"trolls don't have genetic relatives" trolls don't have SIBLINGS like we do, but they have genetic parents, which they are discouraged from trying to find with threat of being culled
note: this is in terms of natural reproduction, which these trolls weren't produced by (their genetics are more direct)
"but there's no way to TRACE those parents for it to matter" the only possible genetic output for a fuchsia descendant is HIC (even if Feferi was naturally born), with no generations in-between through ecto-biology it's not that hard
also, the lab's viewport locks in on the genetic parents of each player to create clones of them through ectobiology, remember: they aren't conceived naturally, but come from paradox slime
for trolls, ecto-biology cuts out the brooding process entirely, making it so their "ancestor" doesn't come from multiple biological generations (which would also involve an array of different [pre-combined] pairings down the line) before their "descendant" still, some people think of the terms "ancestor" and "descendant" as literal, so there's more to discuss there
"the descendants would be SO far down the line genetically that they're practically not related to their ancestor" they're actually more genetically identical than human parent and child
also, in terms of NATURAL troll reproduction, their individual ancestors ARE the strongest genetic link, not the weakest
going back to ecto-biology now
with ecto-biology, john created 8 babies, including their guardians, while karkat created 24 grubs, including their ancestors, which he still didn't believe to be an actual thing despite having to have seen them on the monitors in the ectobiology-lab
troll ancestors have been compared to a direct relative (genetic mother via ecto-biology) that died before they were born
vriska also states that their parents/ancestors were "made the same way" in the labs
the alpha kids, that grew up with troll standards and troll-enforced reproduction, called their direct relatives (genetic children via ecto-biology) that died long before they were born their "ancestor", having described the same issue of nobody being able to trace who their direct "parents" are with troll-enforced reproduction, the "ancestors" are stated to BE their genetic forebears (parents, not biological generations apart, but physically entire lifespans apart)
though, in this case, the alpha kids ("descendants") were clones of themselves and their genetic children ("ancestors") were sent to the planet many years before them
"but the alpha trolls are in a different universe, meaning we're dealing with different DNA! different mothergrub! and different genetic material in the slurry! there's NO RELATION!" not how a session or a scratch works...
honestly, why is THAT take the most popular out of all of this?
"but aranea mentioned also being terezi's ancestor! meaning they made some sort of slurry combinations in the ecto-labs! which 100% could be different from the combinations their descendants made! so they can't POSSIBLY-" stop the alpha of the game doesn't require that type of ecto-biology within it, remember? the scratch sent them to another session, swaping the roles of the beta players and their genetic parents (alpha players) she phrases this weird, yes, but she's not implying mixed genetics
the alpha trolls were delivered from a reality not yet conceived, due to a scratch that hasn't happened yet (gotta love time shenanigans), she's talking about how their existence and death happened LONG before Alternia's (Beforus: "before us") this follows the continuation HOW the trolls use "ancestor", except in this case she's not talking about genetically being terezi's parent/"ancestor"- that's why she says "in a way... not quite how you're picturing" and explains after her connection to vriska that yes, she (and the rest of the Beforans) lived and died long before any Alternians even existed
yeah, they see them in a familial sense that's just socially not normally possible in their society at all, reflecting from seeing the humans having their own little family reunion and connecting it to their dancestors, trolls just view it as a one-person lineage (because, again... individual "ancestor" with it being direct relativity) and can't grasp the concept of siblings, because they biologically don't work that way to where "siblings" are a thing their society is meant to be "individualistic", literally "fend for yourself"
. . .
also, before anyone starts:
- if there was no genuine connection "apart from an idea of a person to look up to", then that downplays a lot of roxy's development centering her "ancestor" she never even met or even really knew before seeing a teen version of her (same with the striders), plus with people making it a "no genetic consequence" argument... are you getting how you sound yet?
- looping into the first one, have you seen how the alpha and beta trolls interact with their direct relative? that ties more into roxy's experience than just an idea to latch onto (remember: "common hues" allegedly don't have this connection, from them being at a significant disadvantage population and lifespan-wise, yet we see similar unspoken "too excited for words" interaction between the leijons and the lalondes when they first officially meet)
- trolls do have a natural urge to find out about their biological parents (forebears), yet with the restrictions and fear of being culled for trying, they don't seek it out and instead, if they could, rely on finding out more about the common link throughout the generations: their individual ancestor
- we can see what else you post when you try and say it's not the same in our standards, yes even those ships, how are you fighting over this so hard when you clearly aren't bothered by the human version of it? come on- same with the adult x minor excuse
- y'all realize when karkat's discussing human incest and the pairings in their group, that's also from their species literally having NO WAY of meeting their genetic parents let alone their ancestor, right? what makes you think that being the ones to see someone you're actually and directly related to in person, when that's not a thing for literally the rest of your species (again, see: dirk and roxy), would be a "yep, they would 100% be fine with getting together romantically!"
- the only familial relationship that's EXPLICITLY FANON is: making the Alternian ancestor the parent and the alpha and beta trolls siblings AND anyone who still somehow believes in 2025 that any of the trolls are brother and sister when they're both not naturally born (no pairings) and, with the ancestor genetics lore of natural trolls, that would form two trolls from two parents, with the trolls looking like their individual ancestor (being related to their ancestor/parents, but not to "siblings" like we are- since obviously our genetics don't work like that at all)
- if it was genuinely not wrong in their eyes, then why does karkat not feel spades for kankri, especially with his whole hate-marry deal? it's another vantas that's even MORE easy to hate, and karkat was so vocal about human relations compared to trolls, especially when making the ship chart (again: that was about siblings, which trolls still don't have), yet not the slightest pitch inkling- ntm, why is the only instance of it cronus (being cronus)? even with the predatory advances involved, the age gap of 13 and 19 and 16 and 19 ARE addressed as bad and not respectable to have- with the characters that are desperate to take advantage of "new opportunities" doing so, especially with the hints given throughout vriska and meenah's relationship of it being predatory before the "7.5 huh ig that's a lil more respectable" line dropped, they KNOW the 6 sweep old trolls are vulnerable and malleable, that's why it happened- the alpha trolls suck, we know this already
edit: and for anyone who doubts that their relation to their ancestor STOPS at "just having an idea of someone to look up to", hussie states that it goes further into familial relation, with both intended variations involving FAMILY
