#endo support

[pcos-and-endo-awareness]

[fqirycollective]

Endogenic Systems

This is not a post to fakeclaim. It's moreso to educate and hopefully help people. Endogenic systems are heavily debated in the system community, and it's because they scientifically can't exist.

What is an endogenic system?

An endogenic system is a system who claims to have formed without trauma. It's often used as an umbrella term for all the other origins of systems without trauma. Scientifically, they don't exist. If a person doesn't go through trauma, there is literally no reason for the dissociative barriers to raise and for their identity not to integrate. There has been no scientific exploration of endogenic systems because like I said, they scientifically can't exist.

Does this mean all endogenic systems are faking?

Absolutely not. Just because they claim to be endogenic doesn't mean they're faking. In many cases, it's actually the opposite. They claim to be endogenic because they don't remember their trauma, which is very common in systems. I know for a long time, we had a lot of triggers that we knew triggered us but couldn't find a source of trauma as to why. No one knew about it until we had flashbacks of before any alters could know. This is likely because our brain wanted to protect all of us from the memories because it was before any of us could handle it. None of us knew of the pieces of trauma until we had flashbacks, and even then our brain wasn't sure if it actually happened. So it's very possible for an endogenic system to have trauma that caused their system and them claim to be endogenic because they don't remember it.

Why are they harmful to the system community?

They often spread misinformation. For starters, they mispread information about system origins, as we've explained earlier. A lot of the subcategories of endogenics claim their system formed from other mental illnesses, such as "BPDgenic" and "schizophrenicgenic." Obviously there are other instances, but this is one of the main ones. They also take away from the reality of systems facing trauma. If enough claim to not have trauma, singlets will start to believe that without doing any research. Singlets are ignorant enough as it is, we don't need them getting mad at systems and fakeclaiming us for having trauma because of the misinformation spread by endogenics.

Why are they harmful to the endogenic system itself?

This part isn't talked about as much, but any system who identifies as endogenic is putting themselves at risk just by believing they don't have trauma. If they don't believe in their trauma, it can cause severe distress when they do finally get a flashback and get to the traumatic parts of being a system. Formed alters may fully split into new ones. Their entire reality could drastically change negatively. So if you claim to be an endogenic system, I suggest you reconsider it. You may not remember trauma, but there has to be for you to be a system. There is no reason or scientific evidence to support you being a system without trauma. So for your benefit, if not other systems, at least be aware that there is trauma somewhere in your childhood.

"But I don't have OSDDID. I'm a plural singlet/my system isn't disordered."

Then don't use our terms. Don't come into our spaces. Don't speak on our issues. Don't talk about our experiences. Don't give advice to singlets about what we experience. Just /don't./ I'm not sure what you're saying is possible either, but if you aren't an OSDDID system, you absolutely should NOT have any power in our communities or talk to singlets about us, spreading misinformation. You arent us. You don't live our experiences. We do. Let /us/ talk to them.

[didwho]

Hello! You mentioned looking for more info about labels and stuff, so, if you're interested, here are a few things we've personally learned from several years as a "Origins Are Weird And Confusing" system who has been in therapy for A While at this point, in case they're useful to you: - you deserve whatever support you need, regardless of origin or dx or anything else. Therapy, friends who listen to you and support you, academic or workplace accommodations, the right to be unhappy and having a shitty time--you don't have to prove anything to be allowed to want/have those things. - trauma is a subjective experience about how your brain processed something difficult--not about whether the events were 'objectively bad enough to count', because there is no externally defined threshold. (There are certain types of negative experiences that are statistically very likely to be traumatic to the average person, but that absolutely does not mean that only those types of experiences "count".) - if you are experiencing lasting negative impacts from something that happened to you, 1) there is nothing you need to prove in order to be 'allowed' to get support for it; 2) anyone telling you that it wasn't bad enough to affect you is wrong. (This is true even in contexts completely unrelated to syscourse, btw!) - DID in specific is predominantly associated with chronic trauma/adverse experiences during childhood. However, if you have struggles with mental health issues and feel like a system, your options are not just either "100% Definitely DID" or "You're Making It All Up". Whether the label that happens to fit you and your experiences best is DID or any other label (OSDD, MaDD, PTSD + system, "stuff is shitty rn" + system, "who even knows", etc.) is between yourselves and the people on your support team--it's not the business of internet discourse randos trying to tell you whether or not you're valid. (Besides, figuring out what labels fit you best often isn't actually easy or obvious right away, for any number of reasons--including the fact that sketchy and/or 'muted' memories of awful experiences is a big part of many CDDs--and that's okay. Really. You get to figure stuff out at your own pace.) - you are allowed to use/benefit from CDD management strategies and ways of thinking whether or not you have one. (People without ADHD can use bullet journals. DBT isn't just for people with BPD. Etc. If it helps you, the important part is that it helps you.) - don't let the haters get you down. (There are folks out there in syscourse with complex and nuanced opinions, legitimate critiques of communities, etc.! And also, there are sometimes people who just want to be 'allowed' to feel hateful towards someone, aren't in good faith, and aren't interested in listening. What those people think of you or say about you Does. Not. Matter. They are howling at the moon.)

Good luck out there <3

thank you so so so so so much for the kind words!! i preach all of the same things yet sometimes its hard to believe it for yourself, so i genuinely really appreciate the reassurance.

i am looking for a label as of currently because i dont really know whats what, yknow?? its hard for someone like me because despite preaching all of those things, i struggle to understand what defines trauma!

a lot of my headmates tend to agree we do have trauma, but those who dont tend to feel very strongly about not, so it kinda pushes that positivity away!

it really sucks to be both your own supporter and your own enemy at the same time (not calling my headmates enemies its just the best way i can describe it)!

the vents i post are usually when im feeling fired up or upset over things, and again, for that post/ rant i had earlier i spread misinfo, which i feel HORRIBLE about, but i will keep the post up because someone else made a point on it and had the patience to help educate me!

i am still learning and alla that, its hard to navigate this community because theres so many terms, and due to general amnesia, whether it be the fact im a system or due to my ADHD, its hard to get a grasp on all of those!

anyways, sorry for the ramble and thank you so much for the kind words! i hope you have an amazing day ❤️

[bunfart90]

endogenics might be legit. in this essay i will...

I always feel bad trying to tell others what is or isn't going on in their head because the only way we can know is if that person chooses to explain. so the way I see it is that endos probably aren't lying about their experience, and perhaps we just aren't far enough yet scientifically to fully understand the why and how of being endo, etc. just because there's pretty much no research on endogenic systems doesn't mean they don't exist, they just haven't been examined on the same scientific, empirical level as DID/OSDD.

that being said, because we have a limited understanding of what being endo is like for others, it can be hard not to use language regarding traumagenic systems like did/osdd. I think endos (nontraumagenic ones, that is) using that lexicon is where controversy occurs. due to the lack of research into endo systems, they don't really have their own terms to use. a lot of trauma survivors yearn to solely possess terms to regain control, but simultaneously that traumagenic and endogenic are clearly different experiences.

but they also do have some overlap, as traumagenic and endogenic can sometimes be mixed. an example of this is extraumagenic, which means "a system that is partially or wholly formed from some form of trauma, but the system does not know what kind of trauma it is or does not wish to disclose which kind of trauma it is" (citation here). then there's parotraumagenic, which is "system or headmate was created to deal with trauma; for example, to ward off loneliness during bullying, or someone to do tasks the original was unable to do due to triggers." (citation here). these are considered endogenic origins because they aren't purely traumagenic, even though trauma was part of the reason for the system forming. I personally see the cup half full and believe that any system with any traumagenic origin whatsoever is traumagenic. maybe both if you want to be technical. but there is a lot of gatekeeping (i don't know what else to call it, that's just what it is) around this.

while we're here, i'd also like to just point out that gatekeeping is harmful to questioning systems who may feel like they'd be appropriating DID to self-dx into that community, but shunned if they identify with the broader spectrum of endogenesis. this risks system collapse, in which they go from questioning to singlet, even if they are actually plural. disallowing the possibility to identify as endogenic forces questioning systems to think about potentially having been subjected to severe childhood trauma that they don't remember, even if that's not necessarily the case. we should be more mindful of how damaging it can be to (repressed) trauma survivors to basically say "either you have csa or you're a faker". forcing the trauma recovery process actively hurts trauma survivors/systems.

i haven't been too massively involved in the discourse but i know all there is to know about DID and I try to be as empathetic and considerate of others' experience as humanly possible. traumagenic debaters and endogenic debaters feel attacked by each other. traumagenic debaters feel that endos appropriate what they believe is a solely trauma based disorder and endo debaters feel that traumagenic debaters are speaking over their experiences and completely erasing how they identify. so i understand the rage on both sides. but you have to admit that we simply don't have a whole lot of research out there about endogenic systems. too many people take the scant research to mean it's not real. but i'm sure there are plenty of ill-researched dilemmas in history that eventually proved to be valid and very much real, so as non-professionals we shouldn't be jumping the gun.

i do think that those who know for sure that they're purely endogenic and are fully confident in that label should at least consider creating their own space separate from DID/OSDD spaces if they haven't already done so. as a trauma survivor i understand why traumagenic systems want their own space, and i think it would be just as useful for endogenic systems to foster a space just for themselves as well. but i believe that those who are somewhere in the middle should have the liberty to move around between these two spaces as they please because they do belong to both communities. with these certain rulesets i don't see why discourse would continue, besides the traumagenic systems who see the cup half empty and ridicule any smidgen of endo origin, despite the potential existence of traumagenic origin within that system. it's overgeneralizing and as a result it does harm to those traumagenic aspects of what they may consider an endogenic system.

at the end of the day, all systems look a little different from each other and that's okay. systems shouldn't be expected to fit a cookie-cutter mold of how they present.

before i go i'm gonna say this: in no way am i trying to attack anyone by putting this rant out there. this is a collection of what i've observed, woven with what i feel is the kindest way to perceive endo discourse. this is really meant to be a calm and respectful discussion, if you choose to add on with your thoughts. any attempt to belittle me over my beliefs will not be tolerated.

[world-of-sun]

Gladly going on a blocking rampage.

If you do not support endogenic/non-traumagenic systems, get off of our page.

I am serious. It hasn’t happened yet but I don’t even want 1 comment from someone trying to debate us or some other dumb shit.

We are traumatized. We are adaptive and mostly traumagenic. We are pro-endo.

Do not bring syscourse here.

ESPECIALLY if an anxiety, trauma, stress, or anger holder is fronting. We are equipped with a block button an unafraid to use it.

Unapologetically, Vi.

[our-inspire-verse]

SHUT UP SHUT UP STOP FUCKING SAYING

ENDOS AND SUPPORTERS DNI

Shut the ACTUAL FUCK UP LMAO

I've blocked each and every person I've seen posting that shit but literally what is the issue with a system having formed different from you?

Just bc its not scientifically recognized yet in a field BARELY researched let alone in an ethical, healthy way or in any depth doesnt mean it doesn't happen. It doesn't have to make sense or feel completely right to you

Just because you're traumatized doesnt mean you can act like a bitch

Signed, a very traumatized traumagenic endo supporter

[pcos-and-endo-awareness]