Stern reminder to straight people that non-canon gay ships are the backbone of online fandom. Being weirded out by it is just an embarrassing stop on your way down the rabbit hole.
“What do you mean you ship L and Light they’re both straight and they hate each other” yeah it’s called Lawlight and that person’s in the company of about 8,200 people here on tumblr.
“What do you mean you ship Keith and Lance from Voltron Legendary Defender they’re both straight and hate each other” yes it’s called Klance and there were shirts at Hot Topic—
“What do you mean you ship Benedict Cumberbatch’s Sherlock and Martin Freeman’s Watson—“ GIRL it’s tumblr.
Welcome to online fandom get prepared to get comfy coexisting with a whole lot weirder and wilder.
something i’ve noticed so much lately is how puritanical and heteronormative ppl entering into fandom have become. fandom is built by queer or otherwise “weird” fans who don’t get to see themselves in mainstream media or who don’t get to see what they want in popular media (see: spirk fanzines in the 60s/70s, drarry shippers in the early 2000s, loustat shippers in the 80s/90s, etc.).
it is literally fandom. NOT CANON!!! that’s the ENTIRE POINT! where fans can take something and make it for themselves. it’s not a “reach” to construct an alternative narrative out of the visual and narrative material given to viewers. it’s a way of communicating and identifying thru media that otherwise chooses to punish & traumatize its canonical queer characters (notice how neither of the canon gay characters are in happy relationships by the end of the series & how will is routinely punished by vecna for his feelings!!! quite literally the entire reason we get that painful coming out scene is so that vecna can’t use it against him!!). it’s literally what fandom is for!!!!!!
there’s probably a reason why the notes on this og post are kind of homophobic but let’s not talk abt that or the kind of audience ur trying to pander to by making these kind of posts!!!!! if u don’t like a ship, jump overboard!!!!!
How Gay/Bi the Fire Emblem Fates Characters Are! (this is just for fun, lol)
When I said I wanted to do this, I sort of meant it as a joke, but lol here it is
Here's what I did when making this:
-There's no order within the tiers (i.e. just because Sakura is left of Camilla doesn't mean she's 'more gay' than Camilla), I just put them in this order cuz that's the order I read the supports.
-For most of the Gen 1 cast, the conversations between characters and Corrin are the same no matter what gender Corrin is. This aspect could either mean 1) characters could be base level queer because they can theoretically have the same intimate friendship-turned-relationship with Corrin despite gender OR 2) characters are more definitively straight because they don’t marry a same gender Corrin despite the same conversation. Due to these equally valid readings, I chose not to look at the Corrin supports where they’re the same for both genders.
-The characters that do have unique, gender-dependent Corrin supports are the Gen 2 cast and the "Corrin-sexuals" (Scarlet, Flora, etc.), so I did look at those.
-I read the same-sex supports as catalogued here on Serenes Forest
-I cross checked them with the JP versions of the supports, on pegasusknight.com. Had to use Google Translate which is pretty pathetic, but this was a silly thing to pass the time, not anything serious.
-Most importantly besides the same sex supports, I also looked at the JP exclusive Nohrian Festival of Bonds, translations of which I found @fe14festivalofbondstranslations
Here's a link right to the Nohrian festival masterlist Things can get pretty fucking gay sometimes at that festival, let me tell you.
-I peeked at the My Room dialogue as well, but there's not a good catalogue for those on the English side besides the Fandom Wiki (derogatory) and youtube videos, and pegasusknight.com again for the JP side
-As a rule, I ignored FE Warriors 1 and FE Heroes when making this, but there are some instances in those games that I wanted to call attention to when relevant lol
Keep reading for specifications!
------Red Tier------
-Corrin, Niles and Rhajat are canonically queer in a gameplay and story sense.
-In the JP version, Niles S support with Male Corrin has a good few lines acknowledging the fact that they're both men and what that implies when he proposes, lines the English version cut out.
-Rhajat's entire support chain with Female Corrin in the JP version is unique and different from hers with Male Corrin, while the English version simply copy pasted the male version for both genders. This was done because her S support with Female Corrin was her angsting about being attracted to another woman and being rejected and hated for it, but luckily it turns out F!Corrin returns her love.
For those who haven't read the JP version of Rhajat's support with F!Corrin, here it is linked for your viewing pleasure! IMO it's one of the best supports in Fates.
-To explain the English localizations changes, I think it's because Fates released during a time where the forward thinking stance for gay relationships was trying to pass them off as normal/no different than straight ones. Nowadays, there's more recognition that that's not true; however, even though our attractions as queer people are not socially identical to non-queer people, we are still entitled to rights. Acknowledging the difference of queerness while still respecting our existence and providing opportunity for us to be together, is a stance that ages a lot better over time, and so in my opinion, the JP supports aged a lot better than the English ones.
-However, It isn’t just through the interactions with Corrin that the latter two express attraction to the same gender either, IMO. Niles flirts with other guys constantly (especially in the JP version with Arthur and Subaki), and Rhajat’s connections with other girls, I find read like the girl having a crush on them, like her supports with Selkie and Mitama.
------Orange Tier------
-Anyone who’s followed my blog knows that Soleil is my least favorite character in Fates. Regarding her relationships and sexuality, I find her writing in the English localization to be slapdash and confusing, and her writing in the Japanese version to be incredibly offensive, gross, and predatory. I’m electing to say that her attraction to women is real (thereby ignoring her Class S characteristics), but that she needs a significant overhaul in both versions of the script to even approach characterization that’s both competent and non-problematic.
------Yellow Tier------
These characters display behavior on more than one occasion that reads as very gay to me.
-Sakura and Elise are very good friends to their respective female retainers, and are lovey-dovey to each other as well. Not just in Fates either, their Valentine's Duo in FEH is extremely sweet.
-Not only do Kaze and Silas have incredible devotion to Corrin regardless of gender, they themselves can share a deep camaraderie with each other. Kaze hits it off immediately with Xander (they treasure each other's friendship at A rank, and Xander gets lost in Kaze's eyes at one point lol), as does Silas with Ryoma (he does a blood bond with him and that's gayer than gay sex tbh). In the Nohrian festival of bonds, Kaze calls Laslow very attractive alongside being his usual overly considerate self, and Silas borderline asks Saizo out on a date.
-Unless you've been living under a rock, Camilla is self-explanatory. Toxic Yuri vibes at all times, she's got really fun conversations to read when they're with girls.
-Laslow is the one I'm most iffy on, because his attraction to women is a core part of some of his characterization. But his connection with Odin is just as deep as it is with Selena, his relationship with Xander gives great Doomed Yaoi vibes, and if you squint he goes pathetic Uke mode with Saizo (just like he did with Gerome tbh)
------Green Tier------
-I was initially gonna call this one "Closet Key" but then I realized it was all women in this tier, so I changed the name to something funnier lol.
Every character in this tier has another woman they have a pre-established connection with, often equally or more significant than the ones they have (or can make) with marriable men.
-I did kind of cheat with Azura because I'm considering F!Corrin for her, which I usually wouldn't do. But IntSys really loves ramping up the intertwined fates between Corrin and Azura, regardless of gender, so I'm inclined to include her. I mean, if F/F Edeleth can get so big despite not being different from the M/F version and one character being a silent protag, just because the S rank button exists, I don't see what's reasonably stopping F/F Azurrin from being the same.
Also in Azura's DLC map in FE Warriors 1, a possessed Female Corrin is placed in the role of Arete for references sake, and when Azura says "No! But I just got you back!" it comes across really gay instead of familial lmaooo.
And yes, I know they're cousins, IRDGAF. If problematic hetero relationships can happen in this fuckass series, might as well give the gays some of the pile.
------Blue Tier------
-Y'know that theory about how such overt, try-hard masculine identity can often end up looking homoerotic? Yeah, that's Saizo to me. And he's canonically really misogynistic, so naturally he'd be homophobic as well, lol.
But man, what a flamer he is. Pun entirely intended.
The lord/master and retainer relationships in FE have long been able to be read as romantic, because the lengths that some retainers and guardians go for their charges? It's crazy.
Saizo is incredibly Ryoma-pilled as it is, but in the Nohrian festival conversation, he offers to hold Ryoma's footwear to his chest to keep them warm. And offers the same thing, but for Ryoma's cloak. Yeah yeah, it's explained away as an antiquated tradition of servitude, but IMO that says something about how fucking queer-coded and desperate the master/servant relationship is in FE and fiction as a whole.
Also, again from the Nohrian festival: Saizo gets Silas a doll for his troubling thoughts, Silas says Saizo is actually really nice deep down and basically asks him on a date, Saizo blushes something fierce when Silas calls him cute, and then Saizo actually intends to go on said date at the end of the conversation.
Now, the Nohrian festival could just be pumping Queer Fog into the air to make him act up, but there's just something about Saizo... I wanna put him in a fish bowl and shake him around (affectionately derogatory)
-------Purple Tier------
The characters in this tier have few but noteable instances that are eyebrow raising, and if they had more same sex supports, I'd be curious to see how they'd do.
-Hinoka of course has her Cringefail Wife Setsuna and endless Toxic Yuri potential with Camilla.
-Leokumi is as popular as it is for a reason, the enemies-turned-closest friends schtick is a classic. But they're also just really close with their respective male retainers.
-Ryoma is harder to get a read on because the guy reads as clueless about romance in general in other supports. But he does entertain the servile fantasies of Saizo in the festival, as well as perform the blood bond with Silas, so... maybe Bi by way of Accomplice?
-Xander, as I mentioned earlier, got lost in Kaze's eyes in their support. He explains it away as him liking how Kaze's determined nature changed from when they first met, but hmmmm. But he also has a deep relationship with Laslow and loves him a great deal despite his antics, and also in their supports puts him on house arrest by forcing Laslow to sit on the floor next to his desk while he works and that's fucking nuts, like whoaaa. At that point you might as well have him under the desk.
-Selena and Beruka can theoretically slide into the Green Tier because being in Camilla's orbit just makes you display chronic sapphic tendencies (Beruka in the festival, and Selena in both the supports and the festival), but there ended up being more gray area than the ones in the Green Tier already.
-Charlotte's a toughy because it's a flip-flopped version of Laslow, but she does comment on other women's beauty a lot, and is basically blinded by how pure and wonderful Elise is in the festival. Also in the festival, her and Selena become girl-best friends, and that's good enough for me.
-Arthur is mostly a funny bumbling oaf, but in the JP version (Treehouse you are my mortal enemy), he calls Niles very cute and says he wants a more close, heartfelt relationship with him at the end of their supports, and that was enough to make Niles get embarrassed sooooo...
-The Corrin-sexuals are a chore to dig into as a rule because they have so few conversations.
But Shura has a Nohrian festival conversation with Ryoma, and he gets so submissive servile when he's talking with him, it rivals Saizo. He also calls Corrin's eyes beautiful in a JP My Room dialogue regardless of gender.
-Flora and Scarlet are interesting cases because it's not necessarily *their* writing feels gay, it's just that F!Corrin has unbelievable rizz in her unique supports with them. She calls Scarlet beautiful and strong, and goes stargazing with her in the A rank, with some nice existential dialogue that usually only the closest relationships get into. And with Flora, she uses her three special wishes for Flora to have a happy and fulfilling life, even though Corrin herself admits not being too spiritual. She'll do anything for Flora to be happy, and that's really gay of her (affectionate).
-Shiro is the one most iffy in this tier, part of it could definitely be bias on my end because I really enjoy his supports lol. But unless the translator is fucking up, he calls Asugi cute in the JP version of their supports. His supports with Male Corrin and Siegbert can skew towards "desperate for approval from oblivious guys" which is sad and also relatable lol. He's also not as fussed about Nina's Fujo Fits as other guys are, so he's just tolerant in general. Again though, he'd definitely fit as an ally, too.
-Mitama I found doesn't get as immediately annoyed with her girl support partners as she does with boys, and she's immediately close with Rhajat so like... they can be girlfriends as far as I'm concerned.
-Asugi probably wouldn't have been here were it not for the fact that the JP version of his M!Corrin support has him basically say "I wanna reincarnate and make sweets with/for you in the next life" which, yes it's primarily a reference to how Asugi will be reborn as Gaius in Awakening, but also 1) this support is already predicated on the fact that Asugi and M!Corrin have been going on trips to eat sweets in town which both of them admit is something romantic couples do and 2) M!Corrin outright says Asugi is being romantic when the latter drops that reincarnation line. Real recognizes real.
-Nina, Nina, Nina... The Fujoshi to Unexpectedly Queer pipeline is an extremely entertaining one to read. Her support with Caeldori is meant to be a contrast to Niles' support with Subaki, because while the dads hate each other at first, the daughters hit it off immediately. From Nina though, it's giving schoolgirl crush. And in her support with Soleil, after they had their little Fujoshi vs. Himejoshi arguments, they concede ground to each other, with Nina saying she's interested in fantasizing about two girls for a change. There's also the Hoshido festival of bonds when she's married to M!Corrin where he says "hey, why don't you imagine yourself as a boy when I'm flirting with you" and she starts going haywire, which has a slew of implications, both good and messy, that I'm just awestruck by what IntSys cooked when writing that DLC.
------White Tier------
-As a big fan of this game, I will be the first to admit that a lot of romances are written really weirdly and don't flow properly. Part of this is just the writing itself, while I feel another part of it is just how big the cast is.
The characters in this tier though, not many of the supports, be it with the same gender or not, feel like they could lead anywhere, and I couldn't help but feel part of that was because they were deliberately written to be the youngest of the child units. For the Gen 2 cast, Fates already dials it back by having them usually just be boyfriend/girlfriend (or 'lover' in the JP version) rather than hop right into marriage, but with Kana, Midori and Percy, it feels even more out there writing wise. So to save myself the headache, I put them here.
------Gray Tier------
-The characters here are on a spectrum of "very hetero" to "too few instances to really guage anything."
In their same-gender supports, the crux of their conversations are more about something to do rather than the connection to the other person (Oboro, Hayato, Rinkah, etc.) or they are just... very straight-coded (like actual good friends instead of the "really good friends" stuff) because it doesn't ring the bells in my head (Felicia, Hinata, Odin).
-The beast characters were also hard to figure out because holy shit, these fuckers skew more towards animal than person sometimes and that makes reading romantic supports a wild experience. Like at times Keaton is just a puppy that can speak and I don't know how to apply that to a romantic/sexuality reading.
-Oh, and there's Forrest. He's very gender nonconforming, but pretty exclusively attracted to girls. He just also happens to be very compassionate and soft spoken so combine all those traits, and you got a character that gives off a fruity vibe to a lot of people. Love him dearly, but sometimes people/characters aren't queer, they're just artistic (this goes for Shigure and Hisame too)
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Thank you for reading if you made it this far, I had fun making this!
I'd also like to say that while I'm a fan of making everything gayer and busting down doors for more options (such as the gay mods that exist for this game and Awakening), it's also fun to dive into the nitty gritty on who could easily slip into the queer label by using the text we already have. Really flexes the brain muscles, at least.
