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"Telling lesbians they're attracted to men" ????? Mary and Sue are both into women. They are lesbians. Mary is also into men. She is bi. Acknowledging that Mary is a bi lesbian does not mean saying that Sue is interested in men. We can acknowledge the broad diversity of lesbian experience - it doesn't have to be All Lesbians are Attracted to Men or No Lesbians Are - Genderfaer anon
BINGO!
Just throwing it out there that every orientation includes some nonbinary people, but not all of them include all of us. Ex. Some of us are nonbinary bc we are some flavour of multigender. So, if men are a categorical no for you, that's fair and cool and valid, but some nonbinary people are men as well as whatever other gender(s) they are.
This distinction is important to me bc whilst I recognise most people are well intentioned and acting in good faith, some people are using this blanket approach of "all orientations include nonbinary people" to misgender or otherwise waive away the experiences of a lot of us ala "nonbinary people are men/women-lite". The reality of "hey so I'm nonbinary bc my gender experiences encompasses both being a woman and (partly) a man and a whole bunch of other gender shit" at best makes people awkward, at worst aggressive and dismissive.
Idk... I guess I'm tired of even people who are trying to be NB-inclusive still erasing everyone but those who fit their narrow box of what non-binary is, and to me, that's what this whole line of thinking rests on.
(...And to bring it back round, my understanding is that acknowledging this shit is one tiny piece of why m-spec lesbian and gay are labels) - Genderfaer anon
Yeah, definitely. Some nonbinary genders are included in say, monosexualities and some multisexualites, but not all. Like, I wouldn't think a lesbian would be attracted to a demiboy. So absolutely correct and this is why all these labels exist.
"Lesbian" was a bi woman inclusive term, until *some* decided anyone remotely related to men were too disgusting and harassed bi women out of their own communities. Like. That is the history you're upholding when you insist "lesbian" can never refer to bi women and "why can't exclusively gay people have this one thing". You can have things to yourself, sure, but do you want them from a place of positive construction, or the negative destruction and aggression towards others in your own community? - Genderfaer anon
Exactly. Not to mention some of the people that associated with "men" were actually involved with trans women. Like...they just didn't like penises.
Luigi, no. Waluigi and Wario on the other hand... - Genderfaer anon
Ok, fair, but also Luigi.
And the only person fucking Mario is Princess Peach.
Idk I just feel like if we're medically transitioning in any way, kitty ears and tail and lil pointy fangs should be offered as part of the package? - Genderfaer anon
Fair though.
!!! Good luck!!! You got this!! - Genderfaer anon
Ahhhh! Thank you! Taco Bell, here I come!
@Questioning anon - Just want to throw it out there that there are no rules saying you can't use multiple labels. I consider myself bi and and pan, for instance, and I've met people who use the same but also omni, or bi and poly, or literally any combo. It's whatever feels comfiest, and if more than one community feels like home, then that's cool - Genderfaer anon
^^^
Okay. Someone can be bi in the "two or more genders" sense but not "all genders" in that they could be into, for example, men, women and agender people. Here we have three genders, which does not span the collective gender spectrum. Or they could be into just women and agender people - narrowing it down even further to just two genders. Conversely, they could be into all genders except one - let's say all genders that aren't men. And a myriad of things in between.
So yes, "two or more" can be all genders, and a person who is attracted to all genders who identifies as bi is totally valid, but it encompasses a whole range of experiences outside of that too. Pan (and Omni) are by contrast more specific. That is the difference. Hope this helps anon =) - Genderfaer anon
Yeah, what they said :)
