Turtles Catches Up With Old GMMTV: Together With Me/MaxTul Ship Edition
[What’s going on here? After joining Tumblr and discovering Thai BLs through KinnPorsche in 2022, I began watching GMMTV’s new offerings -- and realized that I had a lot of history to catch up on, to appreciate the more recent works that I was delving into. From tropes to BL frameworks, what we’re watching now hails from somewhere, and I’m learning about Thai BL's history through what I’m calling the Old GMMTV Challenge (OGMMTVC). Starting with recommendations from @absolutebl on their post regarding how GMMTV is correcting for its mistakes with its shows today, I’ve made an expansive list to get me through a condensed history of essential/classic/significant Thai BLs produced by GMMTV and many other BL studios. My watchlist, pasted below, lists what I’ve watched and what’s upcoming, along with the reviews I’ve written so far. I’ve covered Love Sick, SOTUS, and Make It Right so far, and today I offer my thoughts on Together With Me and the MaxTul ship. Thanks to @manogirl for your encouragement to add this to my watchlist!]
Okay! Together With Me. Well -- well, well, WELL.
First off: I’m VERY glad I added this drama to my list, and I want to give big ups again to @manogirl for being the loudest supporter of my adding this to the OGMMTVC and learning about the first high heat ship in Thai BLs. Secondly, I have to admit a mistake. I put Together With Me in-between the first and second seasons of Make It Right on my watchlist (pasted below), but I got the airing dates mixed up -- MIR2 aired before TwM, but I watched TwM first. Womp. I’ll fix my list below. (Thanks to @bengiyo for filling me in on important details about MIR2 so that I can make accurate comparisons in this piece!)
Even though I haven’t watched all of MIR2 yet, I can project from the early episodes what happens -- more heat, more chaos, more teenage angst. (MY DEAR CONFUSED FUSE. MY DEAR HEATY FRAMEBOOK.)
Nevertheless, TwM still provided some fabulous comparative material for me to understand where BL had gone from the time of 2014/2015 Love Sick to the 2017 moment of TwM’s airing.
2016 was a big year in Thailand, I now realize. SOTUS premieres as the first BL-BL -- the first show that was a BL, that focused solely on a main queer coupling. Then Make It Right airs, and it’s pulpy, wild, open, longing, full of implied teenage sex and direct communication about the befores, the durings, and the afters. Make It Right, as the dear @bengiyo stated, depicted a world in which teenage boys are able to explore queerness without being punished for it.
Then we get in 2017, and the second season of MIR2, which has more implied heat than the first season. AND THEN, THEN: we get Together With Me. And just, WOW -- did this show ever benefit from the road that Love Sick, SOTUS, and Make It Right/MIR2 paved.
One thing I wonder is: could we have EVER gotten two JACKED jocks like Max and Tul in a BL ship if LS/SOTUS/MIR/MIR2 had NOT aired before TwM?
I would actually love to entertain that as a question to the family that reads these posts. Because my own thinking is: no. I’m thinking that Captain and White walked so that Max and Tul could do it on camera run. They warmed up the censors to maybe relax a little. I would argue that the previous BLs and BL-inspired material gave MaxTul the safety, as two clearly masculine-presenting men -- stereotypically jacked, jocky, college-aged, huge, masculine, male-men -- to be the first big heat ship, as @manogirl stated, in Thai BL.
I think audiences were likely primed and ready, if they were following SOTUS (with no heat) and MIR/MIR2 (with high school-teenage heat), to GET some HEATY detail from some VERY BEAUTIFUL, SLIGHTLY OLDER MEN -- men who were also about to have some very moving queer revelations happen between them.
In other words -- the audiences had been titillated enough. As @bengiyo has reminded me: yaoi manga was tremendously popular in Thailand at this time, and showmakers were taking notice. The audiences were likely ready for ACTION-action. And MaxTul were up to the challenge.
(Also for context, I also want to acknowledge a note that @bengiyo sent to me about what Thailand was likely paying attention to across the rest of Asia -- as more BLs were coming out of Japan, Taiwan, and China before censorship. From those perspectives as well -- those different cultural reads on yaoi -- Thailand was likely also inspired. I seriously welcome input from the whole OGMMTVC family -- I’m thinking, besides @bengiyo, @absolutebl, @nieves-de-sugui, @so-much-yet-to-learn, and others might have insight on this -- about what outside cultural factors I’m likely missing from my analyses. I’d love to be filled in by the experts on any cross-cultural context y’all think is helpful from the comparative worldview of what was happening at this moment in time.)
So we get to MaxTul, KornKnock, that first scene of episode 1 that had me going WHOA -- I mean, I don’t know what I’ve missed in the intervening years, but even today, we don’t have many series just going STRAIGHT to it.
Now, AFTER THAT? Oy vey, ha.
I wrote in a post right after I finished watching TwM, that I felt like while I had watched a show in a university setting, that for some reason, a lot of the show took me back to high school.
I wouldn’t criticize TwM as necessarily missing something by way of tone. Rather, I would argue that TwM experimented with a kind of tone that at least I haven’t experienced yet in my otherwise chronological watching of early Thai BLs. Namely -- TwM approached its material with a kind of...flippant tone, if that makes sense.
The script was larded with sexism and sometimes crude insinuations about queerness. The show went into VERY questionable territory with two ethical boundaries of doctor-patient relations and teacher-student relations. (I admittedly could not help but think of the recent debates around the Wat-Sani ship in the recent Our Skyy 2 x The Eclipse episodes -- but I think the Kavi x Phu ship was on a different, much more problematic level, as there was active engagement by a teacher to ultimately not separate herself from a student.) (And that didn’t even come close to approaching the problematic nature of the Dr. Bright x Farm ship.)
Really quickly about the sexism, before I get back to the boys. It was really interesting to me when it was used, and when it was NOT used. Plern is, in the words of @lurkingshan, the ultimate faen fatale. Bitchy, conniving, smart-but-not -- a true villain. Aim of Love Sick couldn’t even try to compete. Prae was a ditz, and Miki was vengeful, but Plern thought she was smart, had it all, and deserved everything she wanted without trying.
But Yihwa presented with LOYALTY, intelligence, insight, and grace. And Faii presented with a chill demeanor and analytical skills, and surprisingly -- even while she was ASSUMED to NOT be athletic -- was shown playing soccer/football BETTER than the boys, which I think was VERY NICE to see in a 2017 drama. (That pushed a neat kind of boundary for me.)
Yihwa and Faii in particular defy the paradigm of setting up female characters against stereotypes of male success. What made them possibly the strongest female characters I’ve seen in a BL is that they used the characteristics of their enemies to get back at their enemies. That was smart. They broke through a lot of what could have really sunk this show, and lifted the show intelligently.
So what COULD have sunk this show? List time:
1) The Dr. Bright x Farm ship. I was honestly so grossed out by this that I don’t even want to spend time writing on it. And I am HELL-FUCKING glad that I am NOT going NEAR the second season, because I understand that there’s a redemption arc for Bright. I’m very disappointed by this storyline, as I think it saddles an out gay man with stereotypes about sexual preferences that can be done safely (like group activity), and instead presented those preferences as predatory. And then Farm goes from played-to-player. In my opinion, when the Tumblr fam warned me about this show being toxic -- this ship was toxic factor #1 by far.
2) Knock and his cluelessness. Holding on an actual MaxTul analysis for the moment -- Korn and Knock were interesting characters for me to see interacting with each other. I mean, Korn’s admission to Knock, I would argue, actually came (HA HA) a little fast (HA HA) for Knock to process. No, but seriously. A passionate hook-up, Knock’s VERY adamant reaction towards Korn afterwards, and then Knock’s warbling back-and-forth between Plern and Korn. Knock had everything happening to him and at him -- gay-for-you, lingering girlfriend, the inching back to his same-sex lover -- and I’d argue that Knock was just a little...let’s say....diluted and bro-y about it all. I could have seen a little more emotional passion. I could have seen a little more real and introspective struggle (save for the internet posts). I did like that conversation Knock had with Bright about “gay for you” -- where Bright, as an out gay man, kind of corrected Knock to say, yes, it’s a little gay, what you’re feeling -- but that’s okay, it’s normal, and I’m here for you.
3) Jocks in love. But Knock’s behavior, and to an extent, Korn’s behavior as well, was, well -- jocky. Knock, I think, was very much like -- “why is this all happening to MEEEEE, my broooosss, crying on my beddddd??” To me, at least, what reminded me about high school with this show WAS this jockish approach to romance. The show presented Knock posting on the internet, for instance -- but not spending time thinking exactly about what those posts and answers meant.
For comparison, Bright and Farm, as the other same-sex ship in the show, were presented in a predatory match-up. We didn’t have femme-presenting characters (like Christina in MIR) or other trope-y or stereotypical elements of queer behavior that we had seen in dramas past.
I think the jocks-in-love approach to this show, which came naturally by way of how Max and Tul LOOK and CARRY THEMSELVES -- was risky. Knock was kind of the perfect nickname for that character. He wasn’t a dude that was very able to read between any lines. His true revelation about Plern came when idiot Plern spilled her beans to other people, that dumbass. And I think a lot of the way Knock accused Korn of Korn’s own feelings, and Korn’s behavior in “taking advantage” of Knock, came out of jockish cluelessness. When Korn said, “I love you, dipshit!”, “dipshit” was ABSOLUTELY the right word to use to the continually clueless Knock.
ALL OF THAT BEING SAID. (Leaving Bright and Farm aside forever, let us never speak their names again.)
I think Max and Tul themselves were a revelation. Were they AS SKILLED ACTORS as Singto in SOTUS, or Ohm and Toey in Make It Right? Oh god, no. Were they AS BAD as Krist? No, no, no one comes close. And were they AS INEXPERIENCED as Captain and White when those two first debuted? Also, no.
Max and Tul, I think, seized a different damn moment. I’m actually not sure I’d say there was electric chemistry between them. I think they both acted WELL, but there wasn’t EMOTIONAL sizzle, at least the kind I look for. They were certainly bros and homies -- but longing gazes à la Tee and Fuse, they did not have.
What they DID do, with their PHYSICALITY, was break boundaries by way of what we could SEE, without needing to read between lines or analyze shit. We just SAW THEM DO IT, tear off shirts and make out and bounce around and show off their muscular anatomy, and I think THAT was actually groundbreaking. I think IN THAT -- the boys knew EXACTLY what they were doing, they KNEW they could do it well, and they DID do it well -- and I didn’t see an iota of hesitation from either of them. And I thought that was really impressive. And I think these guys knew -- by DOING THAT SO WELL -- that they were breaking important ground in the world of television BL. The viewers -- those viewers who, like Knock, don’t like or WANT to read between lines -- THEY GOT what Max and Tul were serving.
What I also find impressive is that these guys IRL are serious allies. Their social media profiles, for the both of them, are gilded with allyship. That’s huge to me. (Tul at NYC Pride, come awn.) They’re owning their ownership of a slice of representation -- again, as jocky dudes in real life who engage fearlessly in queer material. (I now can’t wait for The Outing.)
Honestly? Yes, TwM was at times either painfully and/or hilariously toxic. I think the Bright x Farm ship is violent and harmful, and I truly wish it didn’t exist.
But I’m glad I watched TwM because -- well, fuck it, I’m an old mom, and I like to see jacked, shirtless dudes sometimes.
BUT ALSO: I think the makers of TwM knew that there were VIEWERS who WANTED TO JUST SEE QUEER MEN BE QUEER MEN WITH MEN, and you know what? I think the show’s creators said to themselves -- well, hot damn, maybe we have something here. And now’s (in 2017) the time for it. Sometimes I don’t want to read between the lines, too -- sometimes, I want a show that I can watch with a damn martini in a Solo cup and just be like, ooooh, man tiddies!
And the show creators found Max and Tul for Bad Romance, and realized, yes -- let’s spin this off, because there’s an audience out there who wants this. And I think that was accurate then, and now. Award-winning actors, Max and Tul are not. But they are VERY important to my historical understanding for how queer representation was progressing in BLs at the time of TwM -- in a vastly different fashion than Love Sick, SOTUS, and MIR had set up in their own worlds and their own paradigms.
I think TwM created a paradigm of its own -- one that I think has helped BL to grow at least in quantity, maybe not in quality, but at least paved a road that allowed creators to think and to say, well -- if we lead with the sex, we can still make a show. I see the OG BL fans on Tumblr marveling often at the sheer volume of BLs we have now. I want to think that that happened in part for what TwM created -- the permission, the openness, and the standard to do just that. And for the fans that want that content? We live in a world now where we have our fair share of shows to choose from. I think TwM created a paradigm that we didn’t know we needed in 2017. And I don’t regret -- even if it’s not my preferred style of drama -- having the option to watch a cheesy, jocky show every so often. Instead, I feel lucky that in 2023, I can have my choice.
[Alright! It was so much fun late-night liveblogging TwM and hopping on the Yihwa bandwagon, and I’m getting back into doing it for Make It Right 2. Thanks to everyone who answered my questions about TwM along the way: @manogirl, @nieves-de-sugui, @absolutebl, @crowie, @clairificusrex, @respectthepetty, @bengiyo, @shortpplfedup, @kyr-kun-chan, @telomeke, @miscellar (I will always be looking for the BBS connections, friends telomeke and miscellar, haha), @lurkingshan, and apologies if I’m missing anyone else -- thank you, family!
Watchlist update below, which is corrected for chronology for Make It Right 2. And...unbelievably...I’m adding something else to this list. I’m gonna add SOTUS S. I vowed I wouldn’t because of Krist, but. Since I am NOT, EVER, going to watch the continuation of TwM, I want to watch the continuation of another early series, besides Make It Right 2/FrameBook, to see the maturing of a relationship, as I’ve been involved in excellent convos with @bengiyo and friends about how length-and-depth-in-committed-relationships is NOT the most popular of BL themes -- but it’s a theme that literally brought me to Asian BLs via Kinou Nani Tabeta so many years ago. (I’ve read a lot that SOTUS S is better than SOTUS anyway, and it has my beloved Nammon in it.) I’m wondering if seeing a relationship developing and maturing is an important movement for Thai BLs at the end of 2017 into 2018, maybe a theme that hadn’t been explored YET, before TwM’s continuation, and one that might feed into the shows of 2018 and beyond. And I’m wondering if it’s important, as MaxTul was, for seeing the KristSingto ship move forward -- especially as I get prepared to FINALLY get to He’s Coming To Me, and getting to understand the impact of what Aof, Singto, and Ohm Pawat did to split the KristSingto ship. As always, I welcome any feedback!
1) Love Sick and Love Sick 2 (2014 and 2015) (review here)
2) SOTUS (2016) (review here)
3) Make It Right (2016) (review here)
4) Make It Right 2 (2017) (watching)
5) Together With Me (2017)
6) SOTUS S (2017-2018)
7) Love By Chance (2018)
8) Kiss Me Again: PeteKao cuts (2018)
9) He’s Coming To Me (2019)
10) Dark Blue Kiss (2019)
11) TharnType (2019)
12) Theory of Love (2019)
13) Dew the Movie (2019) (not an official part of the OGMMTVC watchlist, but I want to watch this in chronological order with everything else)
14) Until We Meet Again (2019-2020)
15) 2gether (2020)
16) Still 2gether (2020)
17) I Told Sunset About You (2020)
18) A Tale of Thousand Stars (2021) (review here)
19) I Promised You the Moon (2021)
20) Not Me (2021-2022)
21) Bad Buddy (2021-2022) (thesis here)
22) KinnPorsche (2022) (tag here)
23) The Eclipse (2022) (tag here)
24) My School President (2022-2023)
25) Moonlight Chicken (2023) (tag here)
